BPDFamily.com

My posts here are getting old.  They're all the same and I am just venting at this point. 

My uBPDgf is ruining my life.  She takes me to the highest of highs and the lowest of lows.  I feel that she is systematically destroying my self-esteem and self-worth. 

She pulls the craziest behavior I have ever seen yet somehow it gets turned around on me.  I begin to think I am the crazy one but when I tell my family and friends they are surprised just how PATIENT and RATIONAL I can be.  They are all telling me I have to leave.  It will hurt but it is for my own good.

But I have never felt like this toward anyone. I want her in my arms forever.  I love her. 

Or do I just love the idea of her?  The highs.  When she is dysregulated it is downright scary.  She has taken me to a beautiful place that I didn't know existed and has punished me down to the worst place in the world when I have done nothing.

Help.

Please.  (In tears. Lost. Confused.)

I empathize with you completely. Yes, the highs can be really highs, and the lows can be really lows. Like you say, a BPD can truly destroy or try to destroy your self-esteem and self-worth. It is a horrible rollercoaster ride you want to get off, but you love her. I would suggest that you think of all the pros and all the cons and try to come up with your own conclusion.

With my BPDw, even with all kinds of traditional and non-traditional therapies for over the last 10 years, she has gone from being divisive with my side of the family, to being so loving, to being so abusive, and now to being so neglectful. She was the one who brainwashed me by what she said: "She is the only one who loves and respects me." Now, it is highly questionable, now that she has suckered me in, only to be so neglectful and not really interested in our relationship.

No, you have not done anything wrong. They need chaos within themselves and instill into others.

As for help, besides thinking about the pros and cons of your relationship, it is suggested to have couple counseling. If she refuses to do so by giving all kinds of excuses, it is important for you to go instead, even if she gives all kinds of excuses why you shouldn't.

The best of luck, my friend!

Thank you Samuel.

I'm not married.  We've been together six months.  I'm hardly 30.  Everything is telling me get out now.  But it feels like the deepest connection I have ever had in my life, and I have gone out with a good number of women, short- and long-term.

I cannot handle a lifetime of this or children with this woman.  Today she attacked my family for the first time.  Tried to split me against my brother.  He is probably the person I am closest to (even though I *FEEL* closer to her) in this world. 

However, the thought of being alone simply terrifies me.  I am addicted to her.  The way she looks.  The way she makes me laugh.  The way she smells.  Waking up next to her. 

She is absolute perfection and absolute hell at the same time.  I guess that's what BPD is.  Black and white.  All or nothing.  I can't live with her and can't live without her. 

Things are looking pretty bleak.

That look in her eyes when she sees me.  When she holds me and never wants to let go.  The smile I get on my face when she texts or calls.  Sleeping next to her and feeling safe and calm.  The passionate sex and deep connection. No one in the world but me and her.

Then she paints me black (Thanks Mick Jagger).  Makes me feel like an absolute piece of garbage.  Confuses me to the point where I did something horrible when I have been nothing but compassionate to her feelings - GFY and your gaslighting. 

Like I said, I'm venting.  But I'm nearing a breaking point. 

We go to couples therapy.  SIX MONTHS and we go to couples therapy.  What the heck am I doing? Who does that? I guess I feel this relationship is worth it.

I wish she could just be stable.  She is my lover, my best friend, and my partner in life. 

Okay. Acceptance. Breathe.  This is what I've learned on my own in therapy.  She is who she is.  Can I handle this?  The answer is no.  But I want more.  Another hit of that drug.  I don't advocate doing drugs, but if you've done cocaine it feels like that.  A great high and a horrible low.  And the low is only fixed by doing more.  And the cycle goes on. 

So I wish she were a different person.  Actually I wish I'd never met her.  I'm smart, attractive, successful, young, etc.  Not bragging but trying to be objective.  She is ruining my life. 

But maybe meeting her was a blessing in disguise.  I've fallen hard for girls before, but never like this.  My last long-term relationship was a sweet, caring, and (MOST IMPORTANTLY) rational girl.  She just wasn't the one and we had an amicable breakup. 

I've said in other posts my therapist thinks I may need to "hit bottom" to come to terms with my dependency issues. This pwBPD is my low point in life.  But that doesn't make it easy.  My anxiety disorder has come back and I feel the depression I've had in the past lurking.  But in the past my mental health problems came about for no reason.  Here there is a direct cause - my body is telling me GET OUT!.  Too bad my  won't let me.

I need to be strong.  I need to delete all her pictures, be clear about NC, and let her think she ended it.  But I'm not there yet.  I guess I haven't hit bottom.  My friends and family are in so much pain seeing me suffer.  Again, not bragging by any stretch, but my female friends call me a "catch" and a "good guy".  So What the heck am I doing with this girl. 

Stayorleave

Get out now. Run for the hills and don't look back. You have hit the nail on the head... . these relationships are like drug addiction. In order to survive them you need to get out get a good therapist and stay away from her and her toxic ways.

As good as the highs are the lows are worse than hell. Walking g away is the hardest thing you will ever do but also the thing you will ever do for yourself. She isn't going to get better... . ever. You said you are just about 30. Do you really want  to live your life like this?  It is a long road to recovery from a BPD. Get on that road now!  It doesn't ... . She doesn't get better.  Save yourself.

You're right Willtimeheal.  I've heard the same thing from my family and friends and my online crew Formflier, Waverider, and Goldylamont. I love you guys. 

The funny thing is, we just had the best stretch in our relationship.  Two weeks with many fights averted and stability and happiness.  So what does a pwBPD have to do?  Go digging for a reason to start trouble.  And that's what she did this afternoon.  Started a fight over nothing, but took it to the next level by zeroing in on my brother's girlfriend (most likely wife within a few years).  So to me, that's family. You don't mess with family.

It is going to be a long road.  But I live in a major city full of girls and I have a lot to offer. I need to look in the mirror - MAYBE WRITE IN MARKER ON MY MIRROR - "She isn't going to get better. You are lying to yourself, and every day you do that YOU are LETTING her degrade your self-esteem."

It is just the worst feeling in the world to think you know someone and they turn out to be somebody completely different.  It feels like someone in my life has died and is worse than any breakup I have ever gone through, even though we are still together. 

I promise you all, I am not arrogant.  I am trying to rebuild my self-esteem because she has shattered it.  By writing the following I am trying to remind myself of some things, not brag:

- I live in a major city

- I work very little in the summer but run a successful business

- I speak three languages and am well-traveled and cultured

- I'm in good shape

- Girls generally call me "cute" and "charming" and a nice break from the typical d-bags they meet

I need to tell myself I am a good person and I will not collapse without this incredibly unstable girl (I cannot call her a woman because her behavior is so incredibly immature).  I thank you all for your support.  I'm going to look into support groups in my city because like Willtimeheal said, it's going to be a long road.  That road entails taking care of myself, utilizing my support system of family and friends, and getting back out and dating, even if it is half-heartedly. 



THIS IS GOING TO BE ONE OF THE HARDEST UNDERTAKINGS OF MY LIFE, BUT THE OUTCOME IS WORTH IT.  IF I STAY HERE I AM ONLY LYING TO MYSELF AND THEN I AM THE ONE DEGRADING MY SELF-ESTEEM, NOT HER.

Wow. I am feeling exactly the same right at this very moment.

Why do I stay?

Why do I stay when I can't even show an emotion or express that I don't feel well?

This happened to me this morning, something I said, the tone in my voice, made him perceive me as "that character on Saturday Night Live, Debbie Downer." Whoa! I just woke up, I was not in a bad mood at all. What happened? I will never know.

I stay because I've never felt for someone like I feel for him. Even though I am sitting here all alone and abandoned, I am thinking of how much I love and cherish him. Is it because we went out and had a lovely dinner 2 nights ago? Or all those mornings he fixes me lunch for work before he goes to work? Is it the way he looks at me like I am the most perfect woman in the world and tells me he wants no other woman but me? The way it feels when he touches me?

Yes.

But it all comes crashing down at times like these. Why would I want someone who has no empathy whatsoever? Someone who can call me the worst of names when I've done nothing wrong at all? Someone who threatens to put all my things on the front porch for when I get home?

I am terrified of the fact that he doesn't want to live with me and I am going to have to move out with nothing but an empty apartment. I am terrified of losing him. I want to be with him.

I think we are addicted and scared. Maybe co-dependent.

I know how you feel. I wish I could find the strength to let go. Why can't we just let go?

My thoughts are with you.

BadKitty,

Reading the wonderful things he does for you and how he makes you feel put tears in my eyes.  They are so capable of love and compassion yet can do things full of hate and destruction.

I just spoke to a good friend of mine who I would consider an "alpha-male" in all ways.  I was embarrassed to tell him that I am in an emotionally abusive relationship.  He told me something I never would have expected.  He was in the exact same place and told me that getting out was the best thing he ever did.  He said the longer we stay the more it hurts.  If there are no children or marriage in the picture, leaving seems the healthiest thing to do. 

Right now she and I aren't speaking.  A couple weeks ago I would be checking my phone every 2 minutes waiting to hear from her.  Fighting the urge to contact her.  But I am making a change.  I'm not going to talk to her.  Without doing something differently, nothing is going to change.  I am also showing myself that I WILL be okay without her and I have realized what a strong support system I have through my friends, family, and here. 

I am thinking that I am going to let it end and let her end it.  My self-esteem will survive and then I will not fear retaliation by her as much.  She may seem so loving to me but I need to tell myself she is a toxic person in my life.  She is bad for me.  She is damaging me again and again.  There are lots of women out there and in your case lots of men.  You will find someone else or be at peace being alone for a bit. 

Knowing that I need to end it I also know that I need to do something healthy for myself.  I am thinking of taking a trip out of the country to visit friends.  This will put a distance between us and not allow her to contact me so easily.  I say this with confidence (albeit a bit shaky): Leaving her may be one of the hardest things I do, but it will be one of the best decisions of my life.

Stayorleave, I applaud you for knowing that you need to leave. While this is the case, there is one thing that concerns me. You want her to end the relationship. What if she does not want to end it? It sounds like you are waiting for her to tell you that she wants to end it. She may be happy just creating complete chaos. Unless you initiate the action, it may be a long time before she decides. In actuality, it is your decision to take care of your worth, your self. Indeed, there is a lot of fear, but a lot of courage for you to make the decision. I am afraid, and I don't have enough courage, but you can do it, because you can't handle it anymore.

Samuel,

Yes I understand the concern but I don't think it will be a problem.  She tries to end it about once a month, although I feel it is a test to see if I come running back, begging.  Which I have done every time.  This time I'm going to play it cool and see what happens. 

The place where there should maybe be some fear is how she reacts once she realizes I'm not begging to have her back.  It will be completely new territory for her.  Maybe she will paint me black and never talk to me again - that is probably ideal.  But the other possibility is behavior that is even more erratic and irrational than it has been.  Retaliation, blackmail, lies to friends and colleagues, who knows. 

That's why I plan to go away out of the country for a bit.  Maybe that is cowardly but I think I am doing what is best for me putting a geographical distance between us, not to mention doing something nice for myself that is in the best interests of my mental health and well-being.

Oh, I hope I get the strength that you have. I need the strength that you have.

I am very aware that I would be better off without him just as you are aware that you are better off without her. The difference is that I have not made the leap. I keep hanging around, thinking and knowing that every time he breaks up with me, a day or two later it will be right back to him loving me.

A part of me is relieved to think he will be ending the lease and I will need to find a new place, the other part is devastated. I have about 3 more days until I know what is going to happen.

At this point I think I am fine either way.

I wish I could put distance between us like you are able to. That would make it a whole heck of a lot easier.

Well, I guess I'm not as strong as I think.  She reached out to me to make it clear we were no longer together (this happens once every two weeks or so), I responded, and said adults don't break up over text - they do it in person.  So we met up and instead of sealing the breakup we are immediately drawn to each other.  We start kissing we go back to my place.  But throughout all this, she is telling me she has a list of ultimatums, and if I don't agree with them we're done. 

So instead of just letting her go, I pull her back.  She is literally flipping every five minutes.  "I love you, you are my everything." Then "I can't do this.  You have to do everything I say if you want to stay together. You hurt me so much." 

We left off on a good note, acknowledged we are still a couple, then today she went digging for trouble.  Took something funny that happened and turned it into all the things I do wrong for her.  She said that, among other things, we were going to go through all my contacts and social media and delete all the "unnecessary girls".  The control and isolation tactics are insane.  But, I am so sick of fighting that I agree.  She can be the sweetest girl in the world (not to mention beautiful and seductive) but when she splits me I AM ABSOLUTELY TERRORIZED BY HER ANGER. SHE IS DOWNRIGHT SCARY AND KNOWS EXACTLY HOW TO HURT ME WORST. I'm clearly codependent.  The smart move is to walk away.  But instead, what did I do.  I gave in.  I said we could do what she asked. 

To actually do that - remove "unnecessary girls" (read: pretty, but not at all threats to the relationship) from my life - would deal such a blow to my self-esteem.  A healthy relationship does not have these controlling issues.  I've already deleted all my ex's and any flings, girls I dated, etc. To rational people there is nothing wrong with female friends.  The last girl I dated actually said, "Your ex is cute and it's good you guys could remain friends."  So at this point it is just her insanity. But when I said I would do it she said "I can't believe you finally get it.  You've seen the light, etc. I love you so much." 

We go to our couples therapist tomorrow night.  I am printing out the text conversation that has clearly abusive language and am going to see what happens.  But does it really matter? She isn't going to change. She'll say our therapist is stupid and that there's no point in going anymore. She is going to destroy my self-esteem and isolate me until I feel completely worthless.  But I feel like I can't live without her. 

Help.

Hey man. That is a tough one. I'm 2 years out of my relationship and still have trouble. I was were you are. I broke up with her 4 months in and kept getting sucked back. I then stayed for 6 years. 6 years! After one of her rages, I left. And it nearly broke me. Really. I'm ok now but she STILL contacts me. It has been a horrid time. My main regret is that I didn't leave and stay gone after 4 months. When I broke up with her the first time, I was bummed for a few weeks but fine. After breaking up after 6 years, destroyed. Same outcome.Broken up. Not with her. If I had left, I wouldn't have been destroyed, suffered through all the verbal and emotional abuse, not gotten PTSD, not been on these boards, not spent thousands on therapy, not be pinning for her 2 years later. Seriously. You want that? It's not worth it. The feeling you feel is fear. Listen to it. Figure out what draws you to this. Understand it. Get that under control. You can shore up your boundaries and be a million times better off in every area of your life. No judgement here. Trust me. And dude, it happens to the best of us. I'm rich, good looking, have girls after me all the time. But still I got broken. Take a deep breath and do what you THINK is right for you. Listen to your brain on this one.

I finally figured out why I have not left after reading a post on this site. I will leave when the pain of staying is so great that it exceeds the perceive pain of leaving. Due to the normal times and periods of Idealization, the positive, while it may not outweigh the negative, is enough to outweigh the pain of divorce. THEO

Hi SOL15.   I totally feel your pain. Your words are my words. I was with my exuBPD for 4 months and have never felt like that before. I believe he was my soul mate and he took me to places I've never been before. Heaven and hell. I'm left reeling and most times very lost. I didn't end it, he split on me after the most intense declarations of love only minutes earlier. He completely devastated my life. He destroyed my relationship with my parents, sister and my best friend of 20 years. My family have reconnected with me now 4 months later, and things are back on track there. But my exuBPD just started abusing my sister out of the blue a couple of weeks ago, still trying to get a response from me. We have been NC for 4 months. He also came to my door a couple weeks ago but I wasn't home.

The destruction was like nothing I'd ever experienced. I lost a lot of self respect and he damaged my reputation. He posted nude pics of me on FB, he " pretended" to be in love with me and I believed he was, then within hours of ditching me he was pursuing my best friend for a hook up. And I found that out by reading his FB messages.

Otherwise I'd probably still be with him oblivious to who he really is.

I'm happy I've been able to patch up relations with my family but I lost my best friend. I can't forgive her for the replies she gave him. And agreeing to meet up with him.

It's almost killed me. I believed I was the one he had waited for his whole life. I felt that way. But I meant it. Those feelings were very real and strong to me so it's almost killed me that he didn't feel that way at all. If he did he wouldn't have pursued my best friend.

I'm still so sickened by it all.

Thankfully he hasn't come back around or tried to contact me, although even that causes me pain and sadness. I still miss him. The him I thought was him. Which was all mirroring and giving me what I needed to be given.

SOL15 usually I could give some advice, but today isn't a good day and words fail me. This is BPD and it has long lasting devastating effects. She will cause chaos and confusion and devastation to your world. You can see that. Please take things slowly. Do everything in your power to prevent bringing a child into this. Despite what she might say on the subject, you need to be super proactive as often with BPD this is a dream they have to complete them.

Peace to you 

I completely feel your pain.  I feel the same way towards my husband and that's what the last 10 years of my life have been like.  Even when we first met in college it was a feeling I had never ever felt before.  He can bring me to the highest of highs and the lowest of lows.  And over the years the highs keep getting higher and the lows keep getting lower.  Only now I'm aware during the highs that the lows will follow and it saddens me.  Now being married and almost 2 kids on the way, I'm stuck and trying my best to work this out.  I love him, but just wish things could be normal.

I noticed you are only 6 months into this.  My words of advice is RUN!  If I could go back 10 years and tell my self what I know now, I'd tell myself to run.  There were so many red flags back then, but I had no idea what it was.  Since you have knowledge early on about what is wrong, please take that and run.  Maybe she will take it as a sign and get help and one day be back.  But for your work sanity... .please run!

I agree with you. I feel the shared pain with all here.  Its devastating but despite, so much better when you are no longer in these situations.  It takes therapy and continual support to heal but I recall something I read here.  You need to stay away from the traumatic experience to heal from the trauma. Even though I loved my expBPD so greatly and shared all the highs and deepest connections on earth that we all have, its much better now.  We have all been there in that incredible pain and I am sending support and hopes for healing to you all on your individual journeys.  Staying away and NC was the only way for me to heal. 

Thank you all for your kind words and advice.  It is so clear that I have to leave and initiate NC. 

The six words Narellan said are what jumped out to me the most.  If we only look at the highs in our partners and write off the lows, we are only deluding ourselves.  And yes, it is early in the relationship.  I don't want the rest of my life to be like this.

I've been telling myself, "I'll leave her when I get to a better place" or "Things are going to get better."  But that is simply not true. 

1. Staying with her will put me in a worse place.

2. Things are not going to get better.  She is only going to get worse.

I need to remove myself from the situation, get through the withdrawal, and move on with my life. 

She tells me she loves me.  But if you loved someone, would you do the things you know hurt them the most?  Hold them hostage by their emotions and terrorize them with anger?  Act like a child with tantrums and silent treatments? No. That is not love.  That is emotional terrorism and pure cruelty. And I will not put up with it anymore. 

I just hope I have it in me to let it end.  Not go running back.  Don't take her bait.  Get on with my life and end the fear and suffering.  Because I have realized I live in fear on a daily basis.  Fear of her anger.  Fear of her rage.  Fear of how she is going to hurt me next.  I need to get out. 

SOL15 it's not easy to walk away or stay away. Even though you know its what's best it's a tough road. There's not a minute in the day that I don't think of him and miss him. I hope that will fade in time. In fact I know it will. Once you make the decision you've made you need to put that decision above everything else, every day. Even when she contacts you begging for more. You must do this for yourself. It's easier if there's NC.

You are dead right. If you stay she will get worse. But more importantly so will you.

My thoughts are with you. Peace 

You need to get a good therapist to help you rebuild your self esteem. You stay because she has knocked you down to nothing. You feel you are worthless without her. I was there. I know the feeling well. She took my self esteem and self worth and crushed it. Then I went to therapy and I found a great therapist. Slowly I built myself back up. Now I know how to set boundaries and how to speak up for myself. I will never allow anyone crush my self esteem or belittle me again. I have learned how to care for myself. That is what you need to do. You need to find a good therapist to help you find yourself again.

I'm also going to say get out now. Seriously.

I just left my uBPDexbf a week or so ago, we were together for 2.5 years.

Now I look back at all the times I could have left and think, where would I be today if I had just done it then?

All the pain and the drama and the life sucking being with him took from me for the past 2.5 years.

Yes, we had AMAZING times, he was my best friend and I love him more than anyone I've ever met in my life.

But looking back at the relationship as a whole it was bad, bad, bad from the get go.

Don't let yourself be fooled by how in love you are with her, it will not get better and the longer you drag it out the more you will lie to yourself about how it's not that bad. It will get worse. Believe me and everyone else here. It's only been 6 months. It will be hard, otherwise we ALL would have done it sooner. Leave.

I can relate to this on so many levels. Except there is a small part deep inside that wants her back hoping it could work somehow.

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I can relate to this on so many levels. Except there is a small part deep inside that wants her back hoping it could work somehow.[/quote]
Believe me, there is a part of me that keeps trying to figure out how I could make it work. I wish with all my heart there was a way I could be with him, but as the days pass I think I am realizing more and more and accepting it just isn't reality.

"Well if he went to hardcore therapy, there have been success stories... ."

Dumb things like that.

I think the very same dumb things and reality sets in. I know she will contact me again and want to come back and I could do it. But just how long would that honeymoon stage last, a week, maybe a month and Id be right back here. Hurting, only probably hurting more.

Wow, I feel like all of you are reading my mind. 

Willtimeheal - I have what I think is a very good therapist who I see twice a week.  He knows that if I felt better about myself I would not put up with her behavior or have these codependency issues.  I wonder if his approach is a little soft and he lets me get away with too much rather than just telling me GET OUT. 

Last night we broke up at couples therapy.  She said she wants nothing to do with me.  I said the same. Then she came back to my house to get her things.  But then we started talking.  Then cuddling.  Then kissing.  Then we have sex and talk until late at night.  Cry together.  But we still say it's over and say goodbye in the morning.

Today there was a lot of back and forth texting of how we miss each other and how we love each other but we are better apart and we are going to "help each other get through this".  It's as if we are still a couple.  I'm at fault for not instituting no contact.  I guess I don't have it in me yet.  But the longer I stay like this the harder it will be.  That is the sick catch-22 that is loving a pwBPD. 

The newest development is she says we will be "best friends".  I don't know what that entails other than we will still be in contact.  Probably not the best idea, but the empty feeling without her is too much to bear right now.  But I need to find a way to move on. 

Very sad SOL15 ... From my experience " best friends" means you're no longer together but that you will still be told about every other new guy or problem or emotion she might be having. When you're " friend zoned" it means you no longer deserve to be their partner but they don't want to let you go entirely. You will be used as a sounding board for any and everything and she will use you for sex/ money/ conversation/ basically anything convenient to her. This is BPD. Who wants friends like this?

I can tell you a clean break in the long term will hurt far less than her lingering in your life creating havoc and giving you advice.

It will definitely keep you hooked and confused.

You aren't ready to let her go, but she has let you go. You have no choice but to set boundaries so that she doesn't walk in and out and all over you anymore.

NC is recommended for a good reason. She will basically go on the same as before, treat you the same, feel entitled to the same benefits only she is now free to pursue other men. And you will be the " friend" she offloads all the nitty gritty info to. Please don't do this to yourself. It's impossible to remain friends with someone you are addicted to and in love with.

Peace 

That is a huge reason why I think it is going to work for me this time and I am committed to staying away, I'm getting away from the deep searing sorrow and know that if I go back I'll just have to do it all over again and again and again.

I've already sobbed, curled in the fetal position on the floor crying harder than I EVER have in my life for him more times than I can count. I don't want to go back there and recycling will just take me right back there.

I've wasted too much of my time on him, my life is nowhere because I've focused on HIM for 2.5 years. I can't anymore and have to keep reminding myself of these things.

You can't be friends with a BPD. They will continue to suck the life out of you. You need to distance yourself. Be one strong and take care of yourself. By being friends that gives her your power still and she has full control. Why would you ever want a friend like that?  If she wasn't there for you in the relationship what makes you think she will be there as a friend?  She is using you for her needs. She doesn't care about you. If you want to recover you need to remove her from your life... .at least for now.

Extremely well said and exactly how I felt. Thank you for sharing. The gains earned from these destructive experiences make you much stronger and healthier. It takes time and therapy and the ability to really care about yourself. When you learn how to protect yourself with boundaries and rebuilt self esteem, you will likely never allow anyone to crush that again. And you learn all about red flags, and you see them almost right away, which also keeps your boundaries intact.

Yes this! If you were my son this would be my advice.  You deserve so much more. Don't get in any deeper.

I see my thread has been moved from Staying to Undecided.  That is probably accurate given how things have been going.   

The update is that she and I are again technically a couple.  However, I've come to a bit of an epiphany.  I will be okay without her.  Let me say that again.  I WILL BE OKAY WITHOUT HER. 

How did this happen?  Well, I've been working very hard in therapy to build my self-esteem.  Doing a lot of reading and reflecting. Trying to figure out WHY she seems so necessary to my life and why I think I would fall apart without her.  I'm realizing that I am falling apart with her, as others said, she is tearing me down.  I'm learning so much about boundaries in my life, and with her there are none.  I've taken a personal inventory of what I want in my life and in a relationship.  She fulfills neither.  I stay because I am comfortable with her, but guess what? When you stay in a place that is comfortable you do not make any significant change.

In some ways meeting this pwBPD is the best thing that could have happened to me.  It has forced me to look in the mirror and figure out who I am as a person - not who I think I should be for others.  She has taken me to the darkest places of my soul and put me through such pain, but I know when I come out of this I will be stronger. 

So what's the plan? Right now I am disengaging. Trying to put some distance in the relationship and she how she reacts.  Hopefully she will end it on her own - I do fear her reaction and retaliation if I do it.   

I used to count the minutes until she would come over and stare at my phone waiting for her text or call.  Now I'm indifferent.  I'm interested to see how she reacts to this because I know she will sense it.  My only worry is her physical attractiveness.  She is very beautiful and seductive and I don't want that to pull me back in.  However, my shattered confidence is returning.  I feel good about myself.  I feel like I have self-worth.  I've been getting unsolicited female attention.  I am not an arrogant person, but these things help when your sense of self has been shattered by a pwBPD.   

The end is near my friends.  I see her for what she is.  Not a bad person, but someone who has a disorder.  I know her games.  I know how she tries to push my buttons.  I hope I have the strength to keep my boundaries and not let my self-esteem be stepped on any longer and to resist her siren's call - that beautiful little damsel in distress who says she is nothing without me.  But from this person I have experienced some of the worst pain of my entire life.  I have seen the light, which is that I deserve better - whether with another woman or by being single - and I will never let someone hurt my self-esteem like she has again.  To be continued... .

PS - I believe in democracy and as for all the "Leave" votes I think the majority will rule on this one  |iiii

I also said to myself "I'll leave when I'm in a better place"... .I said it for years.  Now we're married with a son and another kid on the way and I feel stuck in this situation.

I know how hard it is to leave.  I was there years ago before having kids and even before moving in together.  I didn't have this board or didn't even know what was wrong with my husband, but knew something was off.  I know how hard it is.  But please use this board as a way to see your future.  You do need to get out.  You will be so much happier.  I wish you luck!

Here we are a week later.  She has felt me pulling away and has had two different extreme reactions:

1. Smothering me with love.  Not an hour passes without a declaration of love from her and telling me what a huge part of her life I am.  It actually gets annoying because they are messages of no real substance interrupting my day.  And then because I live in fear of her rage if I don't answer her quickly... .which leads to: 

2. Doing everything she can to control me.  She wants to know where I am and what I am doing every minute of the day.  If I don't answer her texts quickly she gets very upset and then I have to spend lots of time and effort to assure her I love her.

Today she flipped out because I told her I had been invited to dinner with friends last minute.  She insists on me telling her the instant I've made plans so she started demanding to know when I was invited.  She wants a screenshot with the time from my phone.  I've been working on stronger boundaries so I refuse.  Of course she becomes dysregulated and goes on a tirade. 

So I take a step back and look at this.  Her behavior puts me in a no-win situation.  If I give her what she wants, it is yet another blow to my self-esteem and it lets her continue to control me.  If I refuse she becomes dysregulated and a fight ensues. 

I've read this thread over and over, and said in my earlier posts that I will leave her once I rebuild my self-esteem.  But it is the other way around.  My day-to-day functioning is impaired because I live in fear of her rage.  What kind of relationship is that?  It's a dysfunctional one. Every time she pulls some behavior like today it breaks me a little bit more.  But that isn't me.  I am strong.  I will not be broken.  I am a "fixer" by nature, but there is no fixing this person.  Please let me find the strength inside myself to be without her, because every day that I stay, I am hurting myself more. 

StayOrLeave15.

If your last post was written by a friend, what advice would you give him? 

I know this thread is a few days old, but this is exactly my desperate question right now.

Why can't I leave. WHY?

All of your posts resonate with how I feel. I am an emotional addict to a person who abuses me.

Actuallly I am not technically in the r/s anymore. The uBPD/NPD exbf just recycled me a month ago, now after two weeks of silent treatment asked to go to dinner tonight. I couldn't, because I am working, but I wanted to see him so badly.

I suggested tomorrow, but he says he is busy tomorrow. I am certain he only says this, because he is punishing me for not giving him instant gratification. I know he has his day off tomorrow. So now I texted to suggest Saturday. No response  - of course. I am disgusted with myself for sending the message. Have I no self esteem whatsoever? I feel sick to my stomach for letting him manipulate me like this. Things happen only on his terms now. He knows I am game and he enjoys torturing me with not responding.

I want it to stop! I wanted one last interaction to prove to myself that I don't like him, that it is time to move on, but right now I am just desperately wanting another "hit". He is not attractive to most people, but like a lot of you describe, unlike any other man, he knows how to stroke my hair, kiss me tenderly, hold me after sex, just the typical movie chemistry stuff. why does his absence hurt? Why can't my rational mind win over my emotions? What does it take for me to wake up and gather the strength to end this torture?

I wish everyone on this thread strength and courage. I know how much it hurts. Sharing here helps so much. I don't want to stop writing, because as soon as I am silent and with my own thoughts it starts to burn like acid in my chest again.

I will attempt to meditate now and work for detachment. I am sending my love to all of you now, instead of to him. Peace. Om.

Quote "  He is not attractive to most people, but like a lot of you describe, unlike any other man, he knows how to stroke my hair, kiss me tenderly, hold me after sex, just the typical movie chemistry stuff. why does his absence hurt?"

My exact words. The tenderness is what I miss. From anyone looking on, he is clearly not a catch. He himself said he had " raised the bar" by going out with me. Which meant I lowered mine. Why? Because he gave me something I've never had before. And I loved him with every part of me. I have a lot more work to do answering these exact questions.

NC helps me. But lately I'm tormented when he reaches out for me because my feelings are still there. I just have a lot more knowledge now and can never have him back. But the longing is still there. I just have faith that in time that will dissipate a bit. I pray for him to be out of my head and heart.

Narellan, I share your pain! I am crying as I read this, but partly because it feels so good to have someone who understands.

I am also "way out of his league" - to quote my friends, physically, educationally, financially. But he gives me something I crave so much.

I have to run, but I wanted to thank you for being here and sharing. And encourage you to stay N/C  - I want to know that it can be done! It seems to be the only way.

This thread resonates with what I am going through and I wanted to share the poem below that was shared with me.  It helps me to read when I'm tempted to recycle the relationship, to keep trying and to believe the words of my uBPDw when she wants to work some more, or has had an epiphany about our problems or says it will be different. 

I am absolutely tortured by the screaming parrots on my shoulders screeching in my ears... .The one on my left has a rational mind and in moments of clarity tells me that it is not in my best long term interest or her best interest to stay in this relationship.  I have seen the pattern over the years and I can see the rails of this roller coaster going UP and Down as it fades into the horizon.  "Get off now or you will be wishing you had not waited later on it says."  Pull the plug, rip off the bandaid... .your deserve to be respected as you are a good man with a loving heart!

The parrot on the right says: "If you truly love her, stay and try to help her.  Work harder, love stronger, don't quit and admit defeat, she's got great qualities, you two have shared so much, it's not all that bad- every marriage has issues.  It could be you that needs to change, why are you stubborn? Look introspectively, have you done EVERYTHING you could... .be honest!  Maybe you really are the source of the problems.  She is smart, she's been telling you for years to work on yourself.  You are being selfish and throwing away all that history and all that potential.  C'mon stay and try some more, it will be worth it!

Why do I carry a parrot on each shoulder?  Because there is nothing left between the two of them. Their conversation echoes around in the empty chamber where my self respect used to reside.

I am at a crossroads of two streets as many of you are.  I'm tempted to go down the same one I've walked for 15 years... .it's a habit.  I know that street.  It's full of bomb-holes where landmines have gone off when I step on the triggers.  I walk around the old holes... .but I can't stop stepping on the unlimited triggers dammit.  I think I'll get off this rollercoaster and walk down a new street.

Autobiography In Five Short Chapters from "The Tibetan Book of Living and Dying"

Chapter I

I walk down the street.

There is a deep hole in the sidewalk.

I fall in.

I am lost... .I am hopeless.

It isn't my fault.

It takes forever to find a way out.

Chapter II

I walk down the same street.

There is a deep hole in the sidewalk.

I pretend I don't see it.

I fall in again.

I can't believe I am in this same place.

But it isn't my fault.

It still takes a long time to get out.

Chapter III

I walk down the same street.

There is a deep hole in the sidewalk.

I see it there.

I still fall in... .it's a habit... .but,

my eyes are open.

I know where I am.

It is my fault.

I get out immediately.

Chapter IV

I walk down the same street.

There is a deep hole in the sidewalk.

I walk around it.

Chapter V

I walk down another street.

- Portia Nelson

Well here we are, one month after the beginning of this thread.  The relationship is OVER.  I have gotten off the roller coaster. 


Am I in pain? YES

Is it as bad as I expected? NO

As I have said in earlier posts I have learned so much about myself through this relationship.  I have gone through some of the worst pain of my life.  But I have seen what is important both in a relationship and in LIFE. 

I don't think she is going to try and recycle me.  I have made a firm commitment to NC. Social media and connections like that have been cut off and blocked in every which way. 

I really don't think I could have gotten through this six months - although it feels like a years-long relationship - without these boards and this community.  I was living in Oz and beginning to think that her behavior was normal and I was the crazy one. A healthy relationship does not:

- Demand to look through texts and emails on my phone

- Tell me who I can and cannot see or hang out with

- Demand to be told every time I leave my home and where I am going and what I am doing

- Delete contacts in my phone, social media, etc.

- Throw a temper tantrum and give a silent treatment at the slightest thing

My therapist says I was "getting something out of this relationship".  He said I was using it as a way to stay stuck in bad patterns and not move on in life.  My rationalization was "I'll get to a better place and then leave the relationship" but the truth is I could have never gotten to a better place while still in this relationship.

Do I miss her? Yes and no.  I miss the idealized version of her.  The beautiful, loving, caring side. But then I remind myself.  The anger. The isolation. The fear she instilled in me.  The pure cruelty.  I don't miss that and I am happy to be a free man.

Did I lose part of myself in this relationship? Yes. But I also found part of myself and that means so much more.  I will never let myself be put in a situation like this again and I thank God that I was able to escape early before there was any co-mingled finances, children, marriage, etc. 

I am feeling a little down from the loss.  But it isn't the loss of her.  It is the loss of the IDEA OF WHAT SHE WAS.  And that is simply a fantasy and not real.  The rational side of me sees that all day, but the emotional side still hurts a bit.  But it's time to get on with life.  Take care of myself. Maybe take a little trip somewhere. Reconnect with the friends from whom she cut me off. 

For those of you that are undecided and are early off in a relationship I really have to emphasize the importance of getting out.  It is for your own well-being.  Read people's experience on the Staying board and what they have to go through on a daily basis.  Do you want to be responsible for the actions and emotions of two people while having your own self-esteem destroyed? Life is too precious and that is no way to live.  Rip off that band-aid and get on with your life.  Best of luck and hugs to all.

Wow. This... .this really hits home for me. No one in my life can really understand how I'm so willing to work though every indiscretion with her and forgive her for all the things she's done to me.

The love I feel for her could put stars right into the sky. Move mountains. I sometimes feel like I could live in misery for the rest of my day if I could just stay with her. She makes me so happy in one day that I'm addicted. Utterly addicted to her and how she makes me feel on the good days. Everything about her. Her beauty, her ambition, her laugh, her smile, the way she holds me and the way she needs me. It's the most gorgeous thing I've ever found. Just such a profound love. I could never imagine feeling this way about someone. And now... .well now she doesn't seem to care at all. She wants me gone. Just out of nowhere. In the blink of an eye.

Where did my baby go? Where did the love of my life go?

And who is this stranger?

KrisK7 - it is the absolute worst feeling to experience.  To love and to lose is one thing; it is something that happens in healthy relationships when two people aren't meant to be.  But a relationship with a pwBPD is not a normal one.  It is one that is subject to the emotional volatility of your partner, and the disorder they have can make them turn on a dime.

Unfortunately, the other side of that coin is that they can take you to the highest of highs.  The logical side of you tells you that this relationship isn't good - as you said, "live in misery for the rest of my day" - but the emotional side of you is saying she is filling a void inside you and that you need her.  pwBPD have the capacity to make you feel on top of the world and madly in love as well as make you feel like an utterly worthless piece of garbage. 

The way my therapist put it to me, and I mentioned in my last post, is that I did not really love her but rather the idea of what she was.  That said, it isn't easy to let go of.  It hurts like hell.  But in the big picture you, I, and mostly everyone else here would be better off in a healthier relationship.  These relationships can hurt, bruise, and stomp all over your heart and soul.  But there is hope after them.  I am currently working toward that myself.

This stranger is part of her and it could come out at any time.  The worst part about a BPD partner is that the better things get, (i.e., when there is stability), often the more their fear of abandonment kicks in and they will do something to sabotage the relationship and thus make it a self-fulfilling prophecy.  And out comes the stranger that you mentioned.

I hope you can try to take a step back and see if you really loved her or the person you THOUGHT she was.  How long have you been together?  Try and be good to yourself and don't get lost in the fantasy.  Best of luck my friend.

That makes alot of sense.

I wish I could say it the just the idea of her that I was in love with, but I have to admit the truth to myself. I love her. I love her in all of her craziness. Even in her worst states, even through abuse, I know that I love everything in her. Does that mean I'm willing to accept her abuse and allow it? Absolutely not. But I would never want to change who she is. I love her for everything she is. I just want her to moderate her own behavior. But now it seems like the woman who once was willing to work on it, just suddenly doesn't care about me anymore. Out of the blue. I don't even know where to find my feet because there was no incident. Nothing happened. She just quit. We've been together for a year.

KrisK7 - I wish I had something to say to make it better.  I understand that you love her for who she is. The difficult part is that the moderation you are looking for rarely occurs with pwBPD.  That's why the highs feel so good and is part of the appeal.  I feel your pain and am in the same place right now but am doing my best to move on. If you've read my older posts you'll see that I knew this for a while and was unable to do so.

I still think about her all the time and care about her but then I remember all the pain she caused me and how she systematically destroyed my self-esteem and I tell myself that the pain I am feeling now is less than the pain of staying with her. Perhaps you can take a personal inventory and see what matters most to you. It will likely hurt either way, but the key is finding which choice is best for you overall.

SOL-

New to the board and just read this thread from the beginning. I swear every word you said, it was like I wrote the post myself. The highs/the lows. She was the best and worst thing to ever happen to me.

However I waited 2 1/2 years, and after an engagement for me to end it. You are spot on, I ended it once the pain of being with her was worse than the pain of being without her. I was completely and totally broken as a person, was impossible to continue.

I was in the back and forth mode you were, but for the majority of our relationship. We got engaged 2 years in, because she absolutely needed it then or she was moving on. I knew how badly I wanted to be with her, it felt so wrong at the time, but I just held on that things could be different. "How could someone who is so loving, caring, dedicated to building a stable life, family, everything she never have, not be able to be better?"

I kicked the can down the road, we did couples counseling, even coupled dbt, and maybe I wasn't informed enough, but it was nowhere near enough.

I split with her 4 months ago, and my anger and resentment toward her had finally resided enough that I missed her, and went to visit. What a mistake. We had a great weekend, was so happy and felt so close to her, she wanted me to commit before I left that she could come move back and be with me.  I really almost took the bait, I wanted to, but had that awful uneasy feeling that I knew it still wasnt right.

Needless to say when I got home, and was debating with myself and family/friends (who each and everyone told me they thought it was a bad idea), her old signs came back. Exploded at me, attacked a friend of mine through text to him, just the same daily chaos I made excuses for in the past.

Still all those feelings came back, and ive been miserable. I just want so bad to make things work, but at least I have been strong enough to know it cant be.

I do have regrets though, and I do blame myself for some of it. I was in the back and forth you were for way too long. More than once, an episode so bad happened that I told her she had to take care of the BPD, and we would make baby steps, therapy, couples dbt, etc... I dont think I realized how intense of a disorder this was, and how intense of therapy of life changes would be needed to make progress.

I live in chicago, and there are a few places that she could have gone for full day therapy, 5 days a week for a month, 2 months, however long they thought she needed. I hate myself that I really first knew of these places, or knew that something like was really needed after I really think its too late. I should have known seeing a therapist once a week never would give us the change and progress we need.

Thats where I struggle right now. The what if? What if instead of me being in lala land, jsut hoping and praying things would get better, I told her we need to attack this head on, we need to make this our number one prioity in life, we need to get you the help you need. Its tragic to me, and something I guess I'll never know.

Eduardo -

The pain without is beyond bearable, but I know that the pain with her is even worse.  I am doing my best to stay away from her.  Talking to a few other girls even if I'm not that interested.  Reaching out to friends and family all the time.  Just trying to stay busy.  But she is on my mind all day.  My home feels empty without her. 

I do feel completely broken.  When I am around others I have to "fake it" and "put on a happy face".  I've been drinking a lot even though I know that isn't a healthy way to cope.  My post a couple days ago said I was doing well, but the pain is coming in now and it is coming in strong.  The weekend is going to be especially tough because I am going to be imagining her out with someone else, being with them, having sex with them, etc.  This may lead me to make bad decisions.

I guess it's just a matter of time before one feels better?  Honestly, I didn't even really like her as a person.  That is, she annoyed me and we disagreed about almost everything.  But we had (or it felt like we had) such a deep connection that I could never find with anyone else.  She accepted and EMBRACED my imperfections and allowed me to show all my vulnerabilities to her.  Thus, I feel wounded and jaded about interacting with females again.  She has made me put up a strong guard because I cannot let anyone ever hurt me like this again.

I wish I had never met her.  But on the other hand perhaps this will make me a stronger and better person in life.  I'm only 30 and have a lot of life to live ahead of me.  But right now, the pain of this loss is omnipresent in my daily life and emotions and it is something I just have to get through. 

This is a very well written board with a lot of very good responses.  I just went NC a few days ago with a this is it attitude.  I began to slip this evening, yearning lonely and sorta mildly anxious, a began to fantasize about having sex with her... .and I almost emailed her... .had it already written in my head... .but there for the grace of God, do I post on her instead.  Man o man.  This post really inspires me.  we actually got divorced 3 weeks ago but the judge is not going to enter it until the 1st week of September.  I'll likely post more of my musings on a separate board.  However, I would do well to cut and paste some the responses, because they illuminate the essence of going NC is to give your self time away from the toxicity and begin your recovery process in earnest.  I had an ugly contested divorce.  10 days before the trial she told she still had hopes we would grow old and gray to together after amazing sex... .possibly the last time at my place.  Then 5 days later told me she could not wait till the divorce was over, she could not wait to loose the shame of her last name.  And so on and so forth.  I could not find the quote, but I think it was on this board.  somebody mentioned making a decision and exiting now... .otherwise  years later you will be saying the same thing all over again.  I vouch 100% in the truism of that.  It's painful to look back at stuff I wrote 2 years ago... .and I'm still writing at that angle from another angle... .oblivious to my having been swallowed up by her and in the process of drowning... .she is not the buoy, I need to swim ashore... .with an every man for himself type urgency and steadfast determination.  The addiction is invisible... .for 1-2 hours of bliss, I eventually waste 80 hours of time and energy chasing my tail... .to have those next 80 hours to  myself... .could it be analogous to detoxing? 


This sober me... .particularly during moments of slippery slop ambivalence.  God I miss her flesh like a dope fiend misses crack, heroin, or cocaine, or what have you.  But it's a mirage... .a fantasy... .and that makes me angry, especially from the perspective that in order to take care of myself I need to have to let her go... .and that can be painful and hurt.  She is so much smarter than crack and heroin.  But withdrawing and detoxing so that I can become well again and recovery is a good kind of pain... .I tell myself!