BPDFamily.com

Hi everyone, I have yet another question.

Did anyone find after their relationship/run in with a pwBPD that they were considerably less emotionally available? Perhaps a bit of a commitaphobe?

I have found it really hard to be truly open to the even the idea of a new relationship after my break up over a year ago and incidents with a pwBPD. I was actually asked out a few days ago by a guy I have been chatting to for a while, we'd been getting along really well but it was sort of out of blue and I completely froze up. I just can't picture being with anyone long term anymore, I feel like anyone else now is just filling time. I pick flaws in people, make really small molehills into mountains to justify break ups/not seeing someone anymore. I am pretty terrified of solidifying any kind of relationships as more than just 'seeing' someone.

On the other hand though I have became perhaps a little egotistical. I make friends with guys really easy, never used to bother me, I can be quite masculine. But now any guy I talk to I slowly but surely get weirded out by, thinking they fancy me, and then getting really worried I am leading them on by simply talking/chatting to them. I worry I'm coming off as a tease, a seducer, a snake and then they will perceive me as 'turning' when I turn down an offer or get offended by any forward comments they may make as I 'started it'. I just feel like I am walking on eggshells with all new relationships/friendships in my life.

I am so wary of people and cautious about allowing them into my lives, likewise I am really worried about how I am perceived and if I'll hurt someone. I suppose I just feel very very very vulnerable ever since I became single again.

I'm noticing many on this forum seem to be a little long term relationship obsessed. Why jump from a guy asking you out to being in a long term relationship? Is there any room in your world to date casually? There's a whole catch and release process to dating that can be pretty fun and empowering.

If you really feel like spending time with someone that wants to spend time with you is just filling time, then maybe you just don't want to date at all right now.

We've had super intimate and toxic relationships with people and called it love. The process of learning about a person slowly and without all in commitment will probably seem bland and/or unnatural but it's way more likely to become something worth investing in. I've found that 9 months out of my BPD relationship i'm way more cautious about caving to my desire to attach or idealize a person based on their good points.

I actually had a super cool experience the other night where i got to set a really harsh feeling boundary with a girl that i am dating that has been pressuring me to rush into a relationship and was expecting me to just be enthralled with her because she wanted that fantasy.

It was interesting because i got to see the difference between my approach now vs when i met my ex 6 years ago. I bought in to our connection (and her attention) right away then, and didn't take my time to address my reservations, but now connections don't have that delusional velocity, but it's really ok to let things happen at a slower pace for me. Like me, you may just be in the process of setting higher standards for yourself in the future and now just need to figure out how to communicate your boundaries once you figure out what they are.

For instance if you're surrounding yourself with guys that want to date you, you should probably be really clear with yourself and them about where you're at and what your connection with them is all about.

Also if you worry about how you're coming off to these people, ask them if they feel that way. Could lead to a lot of clarity for all involved. 

Dating is weird and time consuming and interesting and disappointing and sometimes sexy and exciting. I'm 37 and this is the first time i've really embraced the idea of dating just for fun, which is what it should be anyway right? I don't need to find "the one", especially since i'm finally realizing i'm not totally sure what i'm all about and what i have to offer someone else.

Don't know if any of that was useful to you, but thank you for your question. It was something that helped put a few things into perspective for me.

I have been thinking on this a lot. Part of me feels like in order to get over this, I am going to need to kill the part of me that was susceptible to it... I do not know your story, but assuming it's similar to others and intense in terms quickness and strength of the words used/commitment made, I can see why you lock down.

if someone left me so easily that was professing loving me forever nearly every day, if they treated me so poorly despite giving every indication of me being thier world and wanting to be with me every second of every day. What will the person do who is almost certainly going to be less in love with me then every ounce of my being thought my BPD was

Hi, yes, I feel like this. Here's an example. Someone I'm interested in has flirtingly invited me to her house "anytime", but I've been holding myself back. I know I'd be open with her, the more we got to know each other, but feeling comfortable taking that chance again... .I'm still warming to it. Wanting to be more sure. We'll see. Getting over feeling committed to promises I'd made with my ex is part of it. Still letting go of some of those.

"I don't want to say too much. To expect too much. To think we're closer than we really are." Second guessing myself before much of anything has even happened. Yet we might not be as close because I'm not extending myself as much as could be. Remnants of what happened last time I did (the ex).

It comes down to honesty and trust, and honestly, I'm not sure how much I trust either of those anymore. Having just been in a r/s where I was caught up in a game of constantly proving myself to the other person, the irony is, whoever is in my life now, especially new people, they're having to prove themselves to me more than they would have had to in the past. A welcome sign of growth within these boundaries, but also frustrating because not as many people step up for that as would be appreciated. Needing to keep the focus on my own steps, finding they're more hesitant than they used to be.

I wanted to meet someone who would be my return to love and a normal (whatever that means) relationship when having stayed single for nearly ten years after my first BPD girlfriend. Someone who'd help me finally overcome the pain and put a final nail in the coffin of that nasty experience. For a while it seemed like it was happening. Then the BPD rollercoaster started and 5 years later I was thrown off for the last time.

So here I am, 14 years passed since I walked from the warzone that was my first BPD relationship, shell shocked by the experiences from another warzone that was my second BPD relationship. I am now in my 40's. The last relationship was supposed to have been forever or at least not like the first one. While it wasn't exactly like that it was of course close enough. My existence now is joyless. I go through the motions because I can't allow myself give up on myself but the joy is gone from my life.

The first time around I was late 20's and late 20's is easy. I chased women everywhere and had zero interest in staying with any of them. I had a great time but that was then. I am older now. I am different now. I want someone to share my life with but I have no idea what that looks like. I have no concept of that anymore. Dating is fine but somewhere the date will have an anticipation (why else would anyone do it?) but do I have the right to use someone's time and feelings when or if I have no intention or ability to reciprocate their needs and desires? I have wasted so much of my time and I have no idea what I have left to give anymore. I want to be with someone but how? I really have no idea.

There was a woman that I saw casually a couple times in between one of our NC break-ups with my xBPDgf. It was fun but I was thinking the same as you and I stopped seeing her. I explained to her that I was not emotionally available. She said she wasn't either and that in her mind there wasn't anything wrong with two people having a bit of fun while being in a transition period. This seems healthy to me now.

I ask my self now 'what right do I have again to think about and manage someone else's time?' They are grown ups and they can take full responsibility of their actions. If they sense that I am not emotionally available and they don't like it they can walk away. I started realising that I am not here to father any woman and second guess their needs. That's what got me hooked to my xBPDgf in the first place. Second guessing her needs to the point of madness. I am done.

All good points F33. Thank you!

Springle,

Absolutely, I can't imagine a long term relationship with anyone.

Im on then constant look out for    and really its a shame.

Is as if I have a new filter installed that is stopping me from even thinking about committing to a new relationship. I'm almost phobic to the idea.

Have a dinner tonight with a beautiful woman, but when I last was with her I had to usher her out of the house as I was overwhelmed by a sense of letting someone to close.

Ive only been out of my exBPDgf relationship 3 months and can't really se it changing.

Maybe its a new way of life and looking at things, they say personal growth comes from a BPD relationship.

Just maybe we all need more time to adjust 

I personally think that as long as im comparing other women to my ex that im nowhere near ready to consider even the thought of dating. Ill find im only checking out girls that look like my ex which is extremely unhealthy. But i cant help it... its like she set the standard for my attraction through all the mind games and manipulations warping it to encompass all that is her and her only. Its going to be a while...

Yes.  After the r/s, I was really closed down to sharing my feelings with anyone outside of a few close friends and family.  I still need time to myself to heal and feel like I can be emotionally available to a prospective partner.  I'm just not there yet. 

Recently, I've begun noticing men who I find attractive.  That's a start.  However, I'm not ready to date, not even close.  I'm okay with that.  I'm enjoying not being in an r/s.  I'm 14 months out of the r/s, I'm 48-years-old, and I sometimes wonder if I'll meet anyone.  It used to worry me.  Not anymore.  If I meet the right person, terrific.  If not, I'd rather be alone. 

Totally agree with this. I've heard often these days that you can't be a woman's lover and her therapist, you have to pick one. One is way more fun anyway, but puts a lot more of the burden of being awesome on you, which may be what we're running from trying to "Fix" them.

I totally agree too. I'm still healing but I've dated here and there. Up till now it's cause me anxiety and none of the dates have ever gone further than a coffee, but just the experience of going out and making the decision who and who not to have in my life has been valuable. I'm slowly learning to implement boundaries.

I've just recently met a guy who Ive been out with THREE times now so this is getting serious! (Lol). I Have no idea if it'll be long term or not but to my way of thinkign no one knows if something is going to be long term until it becomes long term.

As for other people I've stopped worrying or second guessing how they might feel or think. My new motto is "other people's feelings are not my responsibly". Actually it's ok to flirt a little but change my mind. Flirting is not a commitment. That said I wouldn't knowingly lead someone on and I don't make false promises. What others make of that is up to them.

So these days I'm just taking it mega slow, one day at a time. If I think about commitment I seize up so I'll just keep dating and if days turn in to months turn in to years, so be it.

The first date I went on after my BPD r/s crashed was great. I sat in an Italian restaraunt with an elegantly dressed woman who was not crazy and had control over her life. She had a good job and invested in property on the side. Same thing I want to do. I also realised that she had picked the restaurant for being safe for her. Imagine that? A female who can look after herself. I found it extremely attractive. That side of the date was great. I also realised how soon I'd put myself out there and how what she was looking for wasn't anything I could provide just yet. I was not going to play games with her so I never saw her again. It's a shame because she was great and I was very turned on by her.

This is interesting, I have been on two dates with a guy I really did like and was very attracted to. Sadly he was going through a job change and it was all a bit hectic for him, he eventually was honest with me and told me he had decided it wasn't the right time to meet new people because his work life balance was currently to chaotic. I was really gutted as we were getting on like a house on fire  and he had made me start to forget my ex which made me feel really good.

I try my hardest to take it as a sign that there is another guy/s out there for me somewhere though.

What i find sad... .Is that the non's are supposed to be the healthier people, emotionally. But all I read are stories like this, we don't trust people again, have a hard time entering new relationships. Meanwhile, our ex's with BPD have no problem jumping into a new relationship. Like they aren't fazed at all.

I feel like the unbalanced one, and her the healthy one.

Even on the topic of strength, when we were together, she couldn't handle the slightest bit of stress or disappointment... over anything. I was always the rock that made her feel better. Now, I am a weak mess, and she is out there living her life while I sit home, unable to even go out without falling apart.

Feels like I am the weak one, and her the strong one. How'd that change so suddenly? How'd she move forward so easily while I am stuck in a ditch too deep to climb out of, and too confined to move forward or back? Why am I so weak right now!

The reason for that is that you are in touch with your feelings enough to realise that you are hurt and need to heal before you involve yourself with another human being as opposed to your ex who has compartmentalised her feelings enough to think nothing of inflicting her illness onto the next unassuming victim.

Your ex's new relationship is no more healthy than the one she had with you. It's the same old sh#t with a different man. She'll crash again. And again, and again... .

With that in mind you aren't doing badly at all.

If i had given in to her demands I would be married today, maybe the next guy will? I saw a future with her that was unhappy, so I dragged my feet until she bailed. Maybe the commitment of marriage will settle her down I often wonder, or at least prevent her from up and leaving so quickly and forcing her to work on her. When I brought up therapy, she got so angry "I AM NOT CRAZY". Maybe the prospect of divorce will force her into some self realization.

Maybe it's wrong of me, but I hope what you say is true. I really hope that 7-8 years from now I hear that she is still single and still unhappy. I don't want her to be happy after all the devastation she created here. I know I am culpable in it as well, but i also know she preyed on my weakness like a lioness does to a wounded water buffalo. I hope the universe repays her.

I don't think I'll ever get over that, she hurt me, she hurt my children. Left so coldly and with 0 willingness to work on it. With kids involved, you'd think she'd at least try. I wish nothing but sadness for her.

I feel the same way about mine. I wouldn't bank on yours being single at any given time but the unhappiness has been burned into her flesh and she will never be free from it. Be absolutely assured of that.

The ability to compartmentalize is what is making this unbearable for me. I just don't get it, the words she said, the way she behaved, on my case to buy a big home and marry her, planning our wedding... And then I am just instantly nothing to her, not even worthy of the slightest bit of warmth, like all the things she said, promises she made never happened

Probably because it was a game to her the way children play family in a tree house. Maybe the seriousness of the game eventually dawned on her and lacking the tools to deal with it as a grown up she bailed. Put yourself in her shoes. Impossible because you are not crazy but imagine this anyway. How would you deal with the knowledge that you had betrayed someone's trust in such an appalling way? Could you live with the shame of that for the rest of your life or would you put it under lock and key in a box deep into the murky ground never to be unearthed again? Maybe that is what they have to do to maintain some warped form of sanity because if they came face to face with the fall out of their destructive actions they would not be able to live with themselves.

Yep. The day she left me she was emotionless and cold. She started to pack, and I went downstairs, unable to watch. I hear it get quiet for a bit, so I go up there and she is sobbing uncontrollably. Finally! Some emotion. Turns out she was crying because she felt like a bad person, that she did the same thing to her last boyfriend and felt bad about hurting both of us. The only tears or emotion I got was completely self centered, and included her last BF. Wonderful

I know that she doesn't want to hear or know about the devastation she left in her wake, I get it, but I don't understand how that would stop her from feeling any warmth for me or warm feelings toward the intense relationship we had. How can I suddenly be looked at and treated like a minor acquaintance from her past. How does a human stop loving another so quickly and completely absent any abuse.

She's an emotional retard. What remorse she showed you is probably the best she can give. More than that is like asking a paraplegic to get up and walk around the block.

My ex left me for a drug dealer. He's an orphan who suffered plenty of abuse in various foster homes. And there she is with her BPD, messed up son and her crippling debts. Quite a pair, eh? I sometimes imagine both of them in wheelchairs with a mountain in front of them and neither is capable of getting up to push the other.

Mr Hollande,

I totally agree with what you stated, I feel it's normal healthy moving forward thinking to be guarded and accept that it may be too soon.

It will happen! I felt that way the first month after the break up, now everyday feels a little different.

I have a great time, socialize, let the guys know where I stand on me, not them.

Many saw me and my ex together constantly because I run social groups and he was always by my side. He would freak if he didn't know where I was for a second. He was socially uncomfortable in groups and crowds. I am the ringleader, so it was quite a challenge!

I have connected with a man who also is not emotionally ready for anything. We keep company often, talk, dinner, dancing and enjoy each other.

I am emotionally detached as he is and honestly we are both fine with that until we are ready to commit to others. We are not right for each other for the long term ( different places in our lives) it's good, we know each other as friends only for at least 8 months and he met my ex and even called me on the fact that he was beginning to not know who I was.

He said he saw my light going out months ago!

I recycled with my ex one more time after that conversation.

I have been asked out numerous times in the last month, I'm ready now to accept an offer from somebody that I might feel an interest in, when that happens.

Until then I'm good having my friend to hang with.

Look out guys, I'm out here again, just a little more cautious.

I'm going to be 52 next month, but feel 21!

If I meet somebody great, that's great, if not it's ok!

I am totally fine with myself and whatever might come into my path!

I am strong, I am woman!   Thanks Helen reedy!

This. Yes. After a NPD and now a BPD i have become the 'damaged' one, too scared to even kiss a new guy, while both are in a new relationship (both my replacements). Even though i rationally know better, i feel like the loser, the outsider, the joke of the town.

I know i am not going to be ready for dating for a long while… and am not happy about it.

Totally. I feel like I need to kill off the nice guy in me, the sensitive side that wears his heart on his sleeve. I absolutely hate that I am home every night wallowing in pain, and she is off enjoying her life. I feel weak, damaged... I never want to let this happen again.

The other option I feel I have is to never trust a women again, run from intimacy and commitment whenever it's presented. Someone told me everyday for 16 months "forever", I trusted her completely and always thought she'd love me. A week later, during dumping i asked her what about forever and she coldly said "things change". Not in a week, not for healthy people

I understand completely! I've felt like a right nasty piece of work since my BU and I despise it but sometimes it's happened before I realise. People will be emotionally available to me and I will be mistrusting and so will become defensive and sometimes angry! It's awful, these people are only have my best interests at heart, care about me or want to possibly get to know me more. Not everyone has a hidden agenda but I feel like it is all I can think of now, 'why are they talking to me?' 'why do they want to know all this info about me?'.

I have got a bit better now but my self esteem is still quite shot, I expect most guys who talk to me, whom I actually may like, to become bored of me and drop me like a stone the moment they realise there are better people out there. One's without mental health issues, one's that are not damaged. I expect to be abandoned essentially! I never felt that way before, I felt desirable and charmed by a guy asking me out, want to know more about me.

Absolutely. I'm six months out of an 8 year roller coaster ride with an NBPD boyfriend (he was a husband for 5 months midway through the 8 years... .yes, I know... .why did I let him back in for another 4 years?). Now I have a very nice man interested in me. He has showered me with compliments in person and in texts. I have a hard time with the compliments and don't respond with his same enthusiasm. I told him I felt I was capable of sharing my feelings, but needed some consistency from him. Lately, I think he is cooling off. I feel like I don't even know how to date anymore. Pre-BPD boyfriend, I could jump in with both feet.

I don't feel emotionally available to others anymore. Like all of my energy must go into healing. That all I really do have to offer is insight into the unconcious mind.

Have you ever thought that maybe some of us were too emotionally available and that this might be a more balanced position and a new norm for the better?

I am personally tired being emotionally available and caretaking other people's feelings and moods. Time for a role reversal.

My exBPD had such low self esteem that she would get mad when I called her pretty or beautiful. She couldn't take complements at all.

Yep. It's been a weird journey to that feeling though. At first i was horrified that that was what i would become after figuring out it was my intensity and connection to others that was driving me nuts. I felt like i would lose all enthusiasm for life and curiosity about people and never feel the highs of that childlike bliss again that comes with that idealization/infatuation phase. That's just the point, grown ups don't just jump into things like that, they have cultivated a bit of common sense and don't believe what people say as much as what they do.

I just had to end a sort relationship with a really sexy, mostly fun girl because she had too many red flags around emotional ownership. It sucked especially because now i know so much about the problem and have a lot of tools for how she could work on it and get better, but it's not a role i can embrace anymore. It's not really being emotionally unavailable, but it's setting good boundaries and standards about what you put your energy towards IMO.

I'm just worried that there are not emotionally stable women out there, as i'm still finding mostly ones that aren't.

Women be it due to their hormonal cycle or whatever tend to be less emotionally stable than men. That is not necessarily a problem. It is how that instability is expressed and whether the bad feelings are split and then projected and forced to the partner (projected identification) or owned and communicated appropriately that matters in my book. I don't mind a woman's emotions. My most succesful relationship was with a girl in my early 20s for about 4 years so sensitive and tender and fun and spontaneous at the same time she could make you melt. BUT she was in touch with her feelings. She was expressing them to me. I was there for her during such times and when she asked for it and I could, I helped her. She appreciated it and was grateful for it. We broke up amicably as I moved overseas. But we kept in touch. After a few years of breaking up she said to me 'I don't know how you could stand me all these years with my emotionality'. I was thinking a the opposite for myself 'how could she stand me with all my soberness and seriousness'. I guess there was good compensation. In some respects I see it as a man's archetypal role to be there, a solid base, a rock and ground a woman during emotional times. But a woman that is willing to appreciate the man for what he does and most importanly what HE IS, and not with one arm pulling him close while with the other pushing him away while she kicks in the balls because she secretly hates his and all other men's guts... .

Totally agree. It seems less like hating men though and more like not respecting anyone who could actually care about them, because their self esteem is so low. That and being very self absorbed and just trying to get something from a partner while giving as little as possible. Where does one find mature, feminine, well adjusted, graceful women?

Mine definitely hated men. Anytime she 'd read something in the papers about a woman that was wronged or something she would say... .If she was a man they wouldn't treat her like that or it would not have happened. Sometimes women can indeed be wronged in such a way but most times she would bring this up it had nothing to do with sexism and so difficult to make the connections in my mind about what she was trying to say. She was also pretending to be a woman/human rights activist, a feminist and Free Tibet / hate Chinese activist. But such people end up creating more problems trough their activities as their actions are not positive and are not done in a constructive and balanced way that can create dialogue and solve problems but rather in an inflammatory punishing way that is making things worst. It was all black and white with her. Men bad women good, Tibet good Chinese bad etc. projecting her ___ to the world. There is already much suffering as it is without all these 'saviours'.

+1.  They hate us because we cared enough to get hurt.  The irony. As far as finding another woman.  Man, I swear I'm done with women for probably another year or so.

Or perhaps... when you are a hammer, everything is a nail... .

I know this is for sure part of the problem, but please do elaborate.

Well, one of the problems I have discerning between BPD and just somewhat normal female women. I think it's fair to say that most women "run" the house and set household rules.

I was out the other night, and this girl was telling us about all the things she won't let her fiance do. I immediately thought... BPD... now, I have no reason to think that other then this little bit of information, so I started questioning myself and kind of realized, I'm so fracked up that I see this disorder everywhere I look. I'm on the lookout for it, and perfectly normal things will now trigger BPD fear...

*And fwiw, my first BPD'er, my ex wife, was the rageful, say horrible things and scream type. Really no question something was wrong as she was low functioning. My latest one was way smarter, way more subtle... craftier and high functioning. She did the stomp around the house and ignore me thing, like she was 6, instead of yell and name call. My therapist has helped me see all the classic BPD traits were there, just implemented much more deftly.  For example, my first BPD'er, to make me jealous would say something like "I'm going to go out and f someone tonight" crude/crass. The more recent one, would tell all the time about guys hitting on her, and texting her and how they always wanted her. Under the guise of being "open". Even when out at a bar and me not being there. The net result is the same, I feel threatened and forced to give her extra attention and affirmation, but the tactics much, much different.

yeah i see what you mean now. In the latest woman's case i had gotten a lot of red flags regarding things that I've read that BPD do and that my ex did, (idealization, huge sense of victimhood, highly agitated when stressed), but i wanted to make sure that i wasn't seeing all women through BPD colored glasses, so i stuck around but didn't get too attached and it was a fascinating month.

This is a little in depth but i think it's pretty on topic and i'd love to hear whether this was legit BPD fear or just paranoia and bad choices on my part. (i did have fun with her)

-slept with her on the first day we hung out when i helped her move(i know, not smart but she was hot and it was the first great sex i'd had in 9 months)

-had intense week of her ferociously trying to attach and make me feel good

-experienced her highly reactive emotional responses with me, first hand towards her mom, and hearing about the same kind of blame casting on co-workers (she was always in some drama with some girl who's fault it was)

-she got super triggered when i suggested she had anger issues and in her mind "she was over me" although it was more like me saying that i don't want to be with someone that had so much emotional volatility and stopped communicating with her in a dating way

-next 2 weeks we didn't talk much, during which time she snagged a guy outside a club and had a similar sounding "relationship" to the one she tried to have with me only it took a few dates to f her

-she reconnected with me letting me know she had gotten a job she was going for and i showed her a nugget of positive attention about it and we slept together again right away (i didn't know she'd slept with the other guy yet btw) (she got off, and i didn't mainly because she kept saying word for word stuff my ex used to "i love your c@*K", and "you read my body like a book". Might have been true but it killed my enthusiasm as i didn't think it was authentic.

-that same evening we examined our potential as far as any further connection, and i asked her about who else she's sleeping with and she got way emotionally triggered (it was clearly caused by the stress and shame she had around sleeping with the other guy and potentially risking me walking and abandoning her and her losing her supply. This happened mostly when i insisted that she own her emotional state instead of blaming me for causing it)

-after her revealing a lot of her abandonment issues and admitted to being messed up and came as close as one can to saying they need help/therapy yet not (because she had some once and it didn't help, ugh). She then would switch gears and try to say that if i just had a different approach to her emotions it would all be ok and she'd be an amazing partner. 

I got a little fed up eventually and exited stage left and have chalked it up to a successful (yet semi stressful) encounter with another BPD woman.

What do you think? I'm a bit down because she was very cute and fun and we shared a passion for dancing, but I'm fine if i don't hear from her again too.

So again as far as that main question of being more or less emotionally available, i guess less, but it doesn't manifest as running from intimacy, but rather as looking at reality as it is and making the tough choice to give up the good when the bad is possibly disordered bad.

P.S. any theories on what i might be putting out that makes me appealing to these types or is just being available enough and they just cast a wide net?

That sounds like a nail, even to a non hammer :) Think you did the right thing


I am no expert, but I think it's a mix of low self esteem and being a caretaker type. They seem to intuit that you'll take a lot of crap from them + do anything you can to help them. At least in my experience, I've dated 2 which exhibited most of the traits, and both of them put a full court press on me... wanted a nice guy, tired of dating jerks