Do you feel less emotionally available now?

[Xstaticaddict]

Have you ever thought that maybe some of us were too emotionally available and that this might be a more balanced position and a new norm for the better?

I am personally tired being emotionally available and caretaking other people's feelings and moods. Time for a role reversal.

Yep. It's been a weird journey to that feeling though. At first i was horrified that that was what i would become after figuring out it was my intensity and connection to others that was driving me nuts. I felt like i would lose all enthusiasm for life and curiosity about people and never feel the highs of that childlike bliss again that comes with that idealization/infatuation phase. That's just the point, grown ups don't just jump into things like that, they have cultivated a bit of common sense and don't believe what people say as much as what they do.

I just had to end a sort relationship with a really sexy, mostly fun girl because she had too many red flags around emotional ownership. It sucked especially because now i know so much about the problem and have a lot of tools for how she could work on it and get better, but it's not a role i can embrace anymore. It's not really being emotionally unavailable, but it's setting good boundaries and standards about what you put your energy towards IMO.

I'm just worried that there are not emotionally stable women out there, as i'm still finding mostly ones that aren't.

[freedom33]

I'm just worried that there are not emotionally stable women out there, as i'm still finding mostly ones that aren't.

Women be it due to their hormonal cycle or whatever tend to be less emotionally stable than men. That is not necessarily a problem. It is how that instability is expressed and whether the bad feelings are split and then projected and forced to the partner (projected identification) or owned and communicated appropriately that matters in my book. I don't mind a woman's emotions. My most succesful relationship was with a girl in my early 20s for about 4 years so sensitive and tender and fun and spontaneous at the same time she could make you melt. BUT she was in touch with her feelings. She was expressing them to me. I was there for her during such times and when she asked for it and I could, I helped her. She appreciated it and was grateful for it. We broke up amicably as I moved overseas. But we kept in touch. After a few years of breaking up she said to me 'I don't know how you could stand me all these years with my emotionality'. I was thinking a the opposite for myself 'how could she stand me with all my soberness and seriousness'. I guess there was good compensation. In some respects I see it as a man's archetypal role to be there, a solid base, a rock and ground a woman during emotional times. But a woman that is willing to appreciate the man for what he does and most importanly what HE IS, and not with one arm pulling him close while with the other pushing him away while she kicks in the balls because she secretly hates his and all other men's guts... .

[Xstaticaddict]

In some respects I see it as a man's archetypal role to be there, a solid base, a rock and ground a woman during emotional times. But a woman that is willing to appreciate the man for what he does and most importanly what HE IS, and not with one arm pulling him close while with the other pushing him away while she kicks in the balls because she secretly hates his and all other men's guts... .

Totally agree. It seems less like hating men though and more like not respecting anyone who could actually care about them, because their self esteem is so low. That and being very self absorbed and just trying to get something from a partner while giving as little as possible. Where does one find mature, feminine, well adjusted, graceful women?

[freedom33]

Mine definitely hated men. Anytime she 'd read something in the papers about a woman that was wronged or something she would say... .If she was a man they wouldn't treat her like that or it would not have happened. Sometimes women can indeed be wronged in such a way but most times she would bring this up it had nothing to do with sexism and so difficult to make the connections in my mind about what she was trying to say. She was also pretending to be a woman/human rights activist, a feminist and Free Tibet / hate Chinese activist. But such people end up creating more problems trough their activities as their actions are not positive and are not done in a constructive and balanced way that can create dialogue and solve problems but rather in an inflammatory punishing way that is making things worst. It was all black and white with her. Men bad women good, Tibet good Chinese bad etc. projecting her ___ to the world. There is already much suffering as it is without all these 'saviours'.

[Blimblam]

In some respects I see it as a man's archetypal role to be there, a solid base, a rock and ground a woman during emotional times. But a woman that is willing to appreciate the man for what he does and most importanly what HE IS, and not with one arm pulling him close while with the other pushing him away while she kicks in the balls because she secretly hates his and all other men's guts... .

Totally agree. It seems less like hating men though and more like not respecting anyone who could actually care about them, because their self esteem is so low. That and being very self absorbed and just trying to get something from a partner while giving as little as possible. Where does one find mature, feminine, well adjusted, graceful women?

+1.  They hate us because we cared enough to get hurt.  The irony. As far as finding another woman.  Man, I swear I'm done with women for probably another year or so.

[tim_tom]

I'm just worried that there are not emotionally stable women out there, as i'm still finding mostly ones that aren't.

Or perhaps... when you are a hammer, everything is a nail... .

[Xstaticaddict]

I'm just worried that there are not emotionally stable women out there, as i'm still finding mostly ones that aren't.

Or perhaps... when you are a hammer, everything is a nail... .

I know this is for sure part of the problem, but please do elaborate.

[tim_tom]

I know this is for sure part of the problem, but please do elaborate.

Well, one of the problems I have discerning between BPD and just somewhat normal female women. I think it's fair to say that most women "run" the house and set household rules.

I was out the other night, and this girl was telling us about all the things she won't let her fiance do. I immediately thought... BPD... now, I have no reason to think that other then this little bit of information, so I started questioning myself and kind of realized, I'm so fracked up that I see this disorder everywhere I look. I'm on the lookout for it, and perfectly normal things will now trigger BPD fear...

*And fwiw, my first BPD'er, my ex wife, was the rageful, say horrible things and scream type. Really no question something was wrong as she was low functioning. My latest one was way smarter, way more subtle... craftier and high functioning. She did the stomp around the house and ignore me thing, like she was 6, instead of yell and name call. My therapist has helped me see all the classic BPD traits were there, just implemented much more deftly.  For example, my first BPD'er, to make me jealous would say something like "I'm going to go out and f someone tonight" crude/crass. The more recent one, would tell all the time about guys hitting on her, and texting her and how they always wanted her. Under the guise of being "open". Even when out at a bar and me not being there. The net result is the same, I feel threatened and forced to give her extra attention and affirmation, but the tactics much, much different.

[Xstaticaddict]

I started questioning myself and kind of realized, I'm so fracked up that I see this disorder everywhere I look. I'm on the lookout for it, and perfectly normal things will now trigger BPD fear...

yeah i see what you mean now. In the latest woman's case i had gotten a lot of red flags regarding things that I've read that BPD do and that my ex did, (idealization, huge sense of victimhood, highly agitated when stressed), but i wanted to make sure that i wasn't seeing all women through BPD colored glasses, so i stuck around but didn't get too attached and it was a fascinating month.

This is a little in depth but i think it's pretty on topic and i'd love to hear whether this was legit BPD fear or just paranoia and bad choices on my part. (i did have fun with her)

-slept with her on the first day we hung out when i helped her move(i know, not smart but she was hot and it was the first great sex i'd had in 9 months)

-had intense week of her ferociously trying to attach and make me feel good

-experienced her highly reactive emotional responses with me, first hand towards her mom, and hearing about the same kind of blame casting on co-workers (she was always in some drama with some girl who's fault it was)

-she got super triggered when i suggested she had anger issues and in her mind "she was over me" although it was more like me saying that i don't want to be with someone that had so much emotional volatility and stopped communicating with her in a dating way

-next 2 weeks we didn't talk much, during which time she snagged a guy outside a club and had a similar sounding "relationship" to the one she tried to have with me only it took a few dates to f her

-she reconnected with me letting me know she had gotten a job she was going for and i showed her a nugget of positive attention about it and we slept together again right away (i didn't know she'd slept with the other guy yet btw) (she got off, and i didn't mainly because she kept saying word for word stuff my ex used to "i love your c@*K", and "you read my body like a book". Might have been true but it killed my enthusiasm as i didn't think it was authentic.

-that same evening we examined our potential as far as any further connection, and i asked her about who else she's sleeping with and she got way emotionally triggered (it was clearly caused by the stress and shame she had around sleeping with the other guy and potentially risking me walking and abandoning her and her losing her supply. This happened mostly when i insisted that she own her emotional state instead of blaming me for causing it)

-after her revealing a lot of her abandonment issues and admitted to being messed up and came as close as one can to saying they need help/therapy yet not (because she had some once and it didn't help, ugh). She then would switch gears and try to say that if i just had a different approach to her emotions it would all be ok and she'd be an amazing partner. 

I got a little fed up eventually and exited stage left and have chalked it up to a successful (yet semi stressful) encounter with another BPD woman.

What do you think? I'm a bit down because she was very cute and fun and we shared a passion for dancing, but I'm fine if i don't hear from her again too.

So again as far as that main question of being more or less emotionally available, i guess less, but it doesn't manifest as running from intimacy, but rather as looking at reality as it is and making the tough choice to give up the good when the bad is possibly disordered bad.

P.S. any theories on what i might be putting out that makes me appealing to these types or is just being available enough and they just cast a wide net?

[tim_tom]

What do you think? I'm a bit down because she was very cute and fun and we shared a passion for dancing, but I'm fine if i don't hear from her again too.

That sounds like a nail, even to a non hammer Think you did the right thing

P.S. any theories on what i might be putting out that makes me appealing to these types or is just being available enough and they just cast a wide net?

I am no expert, but I think it's a mix of low self esteem and being a caretaker type. They seem to intuit that you'll take a lot of crap from them + do anything you can to help them. At least in my experience, I've dated 2 which exhibited most of the traits, and both of them put a full court press on me... wanted a nice guy, tired of dating jerks