BPDFamily.com

I've read it countless times, here, other places. My experience too.

But the suspected causes of the disorder have little to do with attractiveness. FOO, genetics... w/e

imo, it's not that most BPD's are attractive, it's that the symptoms are much more pronounced in an attractive person. Why? Cause they can easily bounce to the next supply. They get hit on/flirted with often, and generally feel as though they have options. Options allow for confidence and freedom, freedom to embrace their more destructive sides cause they have the confidence to know there will always be the next supply around the corner. It's allows full expression of the disorder.

Someone whose less attractive, or not attractive, lacks that confidence, lacks those options. And perhaps, is more motivated to suppress destructive tendencies.

I don't know, it's the only thing I can come up with. Thoughts?

I would have to agree. The fact that a new source is easier for an attractive person to get means that they don't have to try as hard to control their negative tendencies.

This makes sense to me as well. Somebody should do a study of this!

When I first saw my ex I wasn't attracted at all.

Only after we started talking and I realized that she had a lot in common with me that I started seeing something else in her.

I eventually fell in love with her, and after that in my mind she was extremely attractive. And now that I know she isn't who I thought, my mind plays tricks on me and doesn't allow me to really be attracted to anyone else.

I just think BPDs really try hard to put on a false self. It seems to be all about their image. So they will do everything in their power to be like the "role models" and whatever else is appealing to us :)

My ex was very basic looking. Probably the ugliest girl I have dated.  All this meant was that she had to work harder for her supply. She was manipulative and predatory instead. Her destructive needs dictated her skillset development. She could read guys like the palm of her hand. What made them tick. And guys loved being around her. Talk to her. She made them feel good. Not sexually initially. That's how it was for me too. When I first met her I didn't like her physically. I told her I am not into anything serious the day after we kissed one night drunk. She persisted and sucked me in slowly after a few dates. Also she could read what I liked in bed. After I had sex with her that was it. I was captured. So she had to develop this perceptive capability to read people's needs as a compensation to her supply needs and also work harder - definitely didn't stop her destructive tendencies. Maybe the only difference is that she didn't dump me. If she was hotter perhaps it would have been easier to dump me first and find someone else. That's the upside. But the downside? Man... .when your gf is the one who is predatory and initiating stuff with other guys flirting etc then it feels like a double betrayal.

I agree. My exPBD isn't particularly attractive and has gotten kind of overweight a little bit. She also has very low self esteem. But she does have a knack for making people like her. Her personality to people not close to her is magnetic and addictive. She even has her friends somewhat fooled. It doesn't matter if you are physically attractive or not, new supply will line up around the block to just get a piece of a$$. Even an ugly BPD can go out and bring home a new guy every night.

Spot on freedom. The only difference is that mine wasn't very into sex. At least with me she wasn't. Who knows what she does with/for new supply. All I know is that after the first few times she claimed that, "sex means nothing to me". Maybe she meant that sex with "me" meant nothing to her. Just hard to figure out someone who claims that, "sex means nothing", "I can't get close to people", and "I hate cheaters". Then they cheat on you. And you're like, What the heck?

Interesting--especially if you think about the possibility of what happens to pwBPD as they age--and lose their "power" of attractiveness. I'm guessing they become more desperate--more reckless. From pictures, my exbfBPD was a beautiful (drop dead gorgeous) younger man. At 47, after 3 years of prison, he was sallow, thin, and balding when I met him. It was as if he gained some power back when he latched onto me for a year. Before his "rapture" into Neverland on August 1, he was muscular, tan, and probably had picked up 20 pounds of muscle under my care. Must have been time for him to go back on the prowl; after all, vampires need to feed to stay alive!

I think there's truth in pretty much all the comments here. I had two theories about this to perhaps think about regarding their attractiveness. In my case I would say my ex is highly attractive yet even more so when you talk to her because she really doesn't seem to identity with her beauty. She comes across as down to earth and nice to people regardless of how they look, so you sense some type of genuineness in someone who also happens to be very attractive.

The first thought is a bit scary, but sometimes I wonder if children who get abused sometimes tend to be more physically attractive to those abusing them? Probably impossible to quantify this and the thought of it is horrid but maybe there's something here.

My second theory I think holds more ground because I've seen it with my own eyes. And that is that it's not that a pwBPD is more attractive than anybody else at all -- it's that they tend to seek out people who are less physically attractive than them since they weild more power in the r/s. So in this way they aren't more attractive than the general public but could be more physically attractive than a lot of their exes. I saw this play out with my ex in r/s after us. Physically she was way out of these guys league. In reality if she wasn't disordered I highly doubt they would have been together. It was very obvious from the outside looking in.

Very interesting hearing the other perspective though of a non not being so attracted to their pwBPD initially. It seems the disorder can find a way to manifest in any situation.

Hell mine had such low self esteem that whenever I told her she was pretty or beautiful, she would look very awkward and uncomfortable. There came a point later in the relationship where she would look pissed off and say "thanks" in a condescending tone.

Mine was attractive to me and others. Women flirt with him all the time. It makes me wonder if I am attractive now. I just to feel attractive but now I feel like maybe I was the rebound downgrade so many people talk about here. Stupid I know. But it does make me question myself. I know it doesn't matter. I am as a attractive as I am. I am a great person and have a ton to offer so my age weight and wrinkles (all things he pointed out to make me feel less worthy) are part of the package and he was lucky to have them. Ok feel better now. thanks for listening.

In my case with my ex BPDbf the attraction was multi-faceted: shared history, grew up in same small town, went to same high school, AND he dated my older sister for like a month in HS. This combined with him coming across and "playing" the genuine "nice" guy who acted like he was slightly confused about women. Playing the "victim" and "supposedly" having every prior woman/gf cheat on him. Of course I know now he was the cheater without a doubt!

Was he physically atrractive, to me yes. To others, perhaps not. The sex was amazing, but I know now it was about control. As they get older their looks and abilities fade and fail. I do believe it becomes more challenging for them to attract new supply.

My ex BPDbf contacted me on a dating site I joined. This happned just last week, after 2+ months NC initiated by me. He broke NC with a message saying what a great profile and gorgeous pictures I had on my Profile. He asked me to wish him good luck. I feel sorry for the next victim. It amazes me how quickly he dissociated the lying, cheating with the OW (guess she is, or was devalued/discarded), and the horrid way he treated me. A recycle attempt, yes, I do believe so.

Oh, and his User Name and Profile were crazy! In his pictures he looks very unhealthy and sickly. He's in his 50's, an alcoholic. Last we spoke back in June, he said he was addicted to Percs from knee surgery.

As for me, I'm 4 years younger. People tell me I look at least 5 years younger than my age. I do feel I'm attractive and in good health/shape for my age. He always would tell me how beautiful I was. However, when we went out he would remark that he felt like people were staring at us thinking he was with his daughter! The OW he left me for was older than him and a used up dirty blonde hag with poodle hair from the 80's. But, I've come to realize looks don't matter to them, they just need to find a vulnerable and willing host/supply to get their "needs" met. Sad, but true.

Why do I find him so attractive? I've wondered, it's hard to tell.

I attract men a lot (just a fact, I don't play on it) and I could have got almost anyone else... .so wth?

I find him gorgeous. I mean, when he's not dysregulating lol

It's not just the way he looks, it's the way he moves, his eyes. There's something pure and naive maybe about it... .Or is it mysterious and dark... .Some part I don't understand fully... .

Maybe madness make people look good LOL

He says women don't like him much... .no idea.

The obsession happens because our brains get hooked to the intermittent reinforcement of reward and punishment which is highly addictive. It's not even the good times by themselves that make them addictive. It is the chaotic combination of highs and lows and not knowing when which leaves you hoping for another bone. It's exactly the same brain addiction that gamblers have with slot machines. You eventually lose all your money but you keep playing as you randomly win something here and there. They go for money we went for love. Adrenaline and dopamine junkies both. And beauty has little to do with it. Once hooked the gambler won't have real preference about what what sort of strawberries the machine displays. He goes for the thrill. It's out our brain that makes them look irresistibly attractive eventually due to its nature. Sure... .some of them can be damn not and other just completely average. But it's a slot machine. For the average looking it may just take longer to get you hooked. To get those chemicals pumping in the brain. But stay enough with anyone and surely an ugly duck will start looking prettier than a white swan. Beauty is just the packaging in any rs. It attracts you to start with but it fades away after a few months at least for me. Then I get used to it whether it is model material or girl next door. I had really hot girlfriends before and I never got hooked up like this.

They tend to spot people'a weak spots. Maybe you weren't that into sex ie not a major hook for you? I know sex is my Achilles heel. I have a really high sex drive and also suffer from this stupid man thing to perform. Really shallow of me I know. I am working on it. If fact I worked on it while with her. When i realised that that's one big area she has her hooks in me I consciously made an effort to desensitise myself from my obsession, whenever having sex focus on my pleasure primarily (she didn't like that) and eventually it  helped me to detach.

Yeah, I've read about Pavlov in length.

But I found him very attractive BEFORE we started dating, and we were both into relationships.

And in the beginning of our relationship BEFORE the push/pull started.

So, there might be truth in Pavlov's doggies, but up to a limit.

Intriguing... .what do you mean?

Indyan - That's just made it easier to get pulled into it. The nature of the obsession itself though remains the same. If you can't see this you are still idealising the specialness of it all

I mean that I was going into a sort of meditative state while having sex focusing intensely on my pleasure and detaching from my need to please her and be the super lover. Funnily enough that made me a better lover than I ever was with her (although I can't  the whole thing love). She didn't like it. She didn't want me to be in control of my self and my pleasure. She wanted to control and dominate everything. I got that back when I stopped caring about what she wanted and focused on what I enjoyed.

Maybe... .

But then, do you believe that specialness does exist sometimes in romantic relationships?

If yes, why should BPD be an excluding factor? He may be borderline AND have a special r/s too with someone. Is that inconsistent?

I know BPD has a lot to do with the idealization phase and blackpainting phase, ok. But putting EVERYTHING down to BPD is too black & white for me.

I'm not minimising BPD, but we are still talking about human beings here, and they do have real human feelings.

You mean better as "longer lasting" I guess... .

Maybe you were more relaxed, fully conscious rather than self-conscious. It's different from selfishness.

My waif was an interesting case.

On her down days she looked pretty rough in all honesty.  But she was an expert with makeup,  hair,  clothes etc. She could make herself look amazing.

Out of bed in the morning I'd say she was a 5, but with all her war paint on she was a solid 8,  sometimes 9

Overall she was above average, when I first met her I was not overly interested in her but it's the idealisation that gets you,  I was like wow this girl has a huge crush on me,  so cute.  And then when I got the BPD waif  "talk" about how badly treated she had been and everything she'd been through.

Well after that she was the most beautiful girl in the world in my eyes,  even when she was run down with blotchy skin and dandruff.  It didn't matter one iota

You are saying that you liked him before you started dating. Is that such a special thing to happen for you? Weren't there any other guys that you also liked before you dated them? Why aren't they in that special category?  

The experience was 'very special' for all of us. We are trying to understand in this part of the forum what that specialness was, what it meant and how it impacted us to learn and get a better handle of things in the future.

No I mean better as better for me. Ultimatele we judge our experience subjectively. I was more fully present and connecting. You 'd hope that she 'd like that. She didn't. She liked me to have pleasure only when she was offering it.

My ex could look pretty amazing. On most days she looks pretty generic or downright awful though, because she simply can't take care of herself. I accepted this, because i believe you fall in love with someone for who he/she is. Now it's just sad to see  lol

Actually, I don't easily fall in love and I'm not very easily attracted to men, especially when I'm in a r/s.

Anyway, I don't think that "realising it was all pretend" or whatever else would help me in anything.

Maybe it does if you need to devalue the r/s in order to feel you've lost nothing much.

But in my case, for I've no idea if he'll stop painting me black one day, I'd rather keep the beautiful moments the way they are, despite the ugly ones, and use them as a force for my baby. If he never sees his parents as a couple (no idea if he will poor thing), I'd like to be able to tell him that at least we did love each other sincerely. It was there, it was real. Part of it was idealization on both parts, but I thing all lovers idealize each other, it's only natural. But, even later, past the idealization phase, there has been lots and lots of magical moments, even if things were difficult.

Ok--I'm gonna jump into this for a minute--what was so great about sex with BPD and NPD was totally getting lost and complete "enmeshment" with another human being. Maybe they just disassociate, but it was completely the mental aspect with exbfBPD (not the technical); he appreciated EVERYTHING as did NPD. Spontaneous, passionate, and disassociative? Maybe. But definitely addictive!

Sex has never been like that before with anyone. It was nothing I could describe. Just feeling like that was meant to be. She did nothing special. I don't know how it is possible feeling like we were so connected... .Always so passionate, deep and intimate.

Where did I say it was all pretend? It was very real and heartfelt and beautiful (during the ups) for you and all of us in this forum. The push and pull was very real also and causes an actual addiction in the brain. How does that mean that it is all pretend? On my part I can accept that this is a major reason that I got hooked and also accept that the highs were real for what they were and so were the lows. If you read  something I posted earlier (https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=233963.msg12500099#msg12500099) you will see that I approach this also from a place very close to my heart as you do and mourn for our broken dreams and magical moments. However that does not preclude my ability to think and offer a supplementary intepretation on some of the causes for it. Magic is subjective and it was very magical for me too. What I am describing above is also an objective approach of the same experience. In my mind I can hold both. Subjective and objective interlap. It's not an either/or for me.

This aspect has perplexed me too. At a physical level my ex was actually not very good but WOW, the connection I felt when we had sex was out of this world. I think it's about how we bought into the whole fantasy of them telling us that "you are the one I've waited my whole life for" I can honestly say I've never had sex like it. Even just holding hands walking down the street was electrifying! Our problem is that we believed the fantasy that they dreamt up.

To get back on topic. When I first met my ex I didn't think she was any great looker. She was extremely short (4' 10" I think and rather plain but once the idealisation phase was under way I thought she was gorgeous, still do to tell you the truth.

I was not physically attracted to my ex at the beginning, before the idealization.  He was just a fun dude to hang out with in this new city.

He grew on me, though, and I came to find him very handsome and loved his looks very much.

The connection thing is bizarre.

Our first kiss was like whoa that blew my mind.  I'd been waiting a while for it and boom.

Pretty much any physical contact was just so intense feeling.

Mine told me once that "it feels like we are one person" and she was right.  Never felt anything like that.

I've just read your thread... .I can relate to what you feel, really.

But I'm not sure I understand the MC everyone mentions around here.

If we've suffered from MC, why do the same?

I know, it's to protect yourself but... .is there really NO hope whatsoever?

Maybe I haven't reached that stage yet. But there are successful stories out there... .and they've required time and patience, maybe too much of it for me. But although right now I feel I can't take any more of his crap, I try to keep a tiny bit of hope. Although I'm aware that I wouldn't if we didn't have a baby.

And as for the push/pull, the first time he enraged and left I did reach to him (totally shocked), but when it occurred AGAIN 3 months later, I would have left him normally. Except that I was already pregnant  

My ex was average looking, but she had "something" about her that men find extremely attractive; that "something" is a personality disorder that makes attaching to someone imperative, since in her head she doesn't exist without at least one attachment, and since fear of abandonment is the ever-present core, might as well have a few attachments in play to lower the odds of being completely abandoned.  We get good at what we practice, and she was extremely good at affecting attachments, and definitely made the best of what she had physically.

You'd think that a coupling of genitals, a physical attachment, would compliment the psychic attachment, makes intuitive sense, but in my case she used sex as a drug to bliss out and soothe for a while, or as a manipulation tool to attempt control; there was a disconnect between the mental and the physical for her, probably why I didn't get in deeper than I did, maybe why I'm still alive.

It's seems quite common that.

Same with me, I feel bad about this but I actually used to mock mine after the first time we had met. I can be a bit of a jerk myself around certain people but yeah I used to say her legs were gross etc (not really understanding the eating disorder) my friends were like you should screw her and I was like nah I'd probably break her plus I bet she has serious issues (listen to yourself sometimes)

But the nice guy part of me thought she seemed lonely and sad,  what the hell I'll take her to the movies etc (she kept asking to hang out with me) and tell her some lame jokes and cheer her up.  If I'm being honest I also did this because I knew it would wind people at work up and I do love a bit of drama.

Anyway you know how it goes,  idealisation,  I swallowed it hook line and sinker and came out with "major issues" myself.

Same here. We used to feel drunk... .He's always said (even when I was painted black) that sex together was "perfect" (his words), that our kisses were amazing.

So... .

What I wonder is this:

Could it be that this special connection exists with ALL of their partners?

Or is it just WITH US because we obviously have a special sensitivity, just like theirs?

LOOL  :) :) :)

I actually was going through some old texts the other day and found that I'd said that to my mate about 2 weeks before FOG started.  I admit I had my first real laugh for like 6 months

No, I don't think that's it. I have a pretty healthy sex drive myself, but half the time, I got turned down. I'm tending to think she used it as a means to control me somehow. Or maybe sex really does mean nothing to her. But that doesn't explain her promiscuous behavior.

That is a good question that got me thinking. If I judge by the stories that she told me about her exes and the out of the top efforts and love gestures she has made for a lot of them I 'd say that she seemed to feel very strongly with quite a few. She just needs to attach as someone earlier said and when they do they seem to feel very very strongly. On the other hand I got the impression that not all her exes where that specially connected to her. Some of them simply had some fun with her and left her, others used her for money, others did fall crazy for her like I did. I suppose on our side it comes down to how prone is one to fall for such intense emotions. My observations is that if you have been starved emotionally in your childhood you are more likely to feel a very special connection with a pwBPD. The magic that one never had, a new eden is now so amply offered (at the beginning) and then taken away. My experience with her definetely had a spiritual flavour to it. Paradise lost

This is something I would also like to know. She told me in the start that just by looking at her I gave her an electric shock, then the touches on the hand stung her. Then the first kiss was something I still crave, and remember very clearly. I believed it was the same feeling for both of us.

So she told me she has not felt this in over 5 years. That was when she met her ex. So I can't know for sure if she feels this with anyone that meets her criteria, or does it take a special person.

Maybe anyone they are attracted to at the time will make them feel that way?

Probably anyone they feel worthy of their attention that will reciprocate, they might feel special.

But we both had something so weird going on I can't even explain, so I am going to continue believing it was only that crazy good with me because we are somewhat similar. (were in tune)

The only problem is she will not remember this I don't think. It is not what she needs to survive. As of right now it is locked up somewhere in the garage of all her hidden emotions and blocked memories.  

Same thing here. At the beginning lots of it. Then withholding as an attempt to control. Then I was giving up on it, she 'd lose her control grip on me and she would come back offering so more etc etc... .

It kind of led to a downward spiral in my case. She never initiated or participated in sex. She just kind of laid there. Don't get me wrong, she did enjoy it sometimes. But for the most part she wasn't too concerned about sex. Maybe it was me or maybe it wasn't, I don't know. After a while I wasn't even concerned about her side of it. I was just getting my piece and getting it over with as quickly as possible.

I don't think that withholding sex when a relationship hits the rocks is a purely BPD thing. I think that can happen in all relationships.

Mine never withheld sex, we even had great sex a few hours before we said our last goodbyes which has made the whole letting go thing so much harder.

So beautiful, Freedom--and so accurate.

Good point. It does happen in regular rs too to genuinely not wanting to have sex (and also lucky guy you were never withheld sex!). However with the pwBPD the rs hits the rocks in their minds only and then they act in this way in order to control you and manipulate you which only leaves you dumbfounded. I remember, during the honeymoon when everything was still fine, clearly feeling that her desire during sex most times (aside 3-4 memorable times) was not to connect but a power game, means to control and domination. I told her after sex once that 'where power is, love is not'. Didn't do much.

I could get more graphic but suffice it to say that I told him many times, "if you can give up the power struggle and your need to perform and control, you will enjoy this much more... ."

Some of it was natural. Some of it was mirroring. Some of it was masks.

They're attractive because that's what they wanted us to see.

And it's what we wanted to see. Creating the illusions together.

Amen!

Yeah, I think you are correct again. For 6 months to a year sex with mine wasn't bad. However, there was a point in time where it started getting less and less. The relationship itself seemed to be going pretty good, but the sex and intimacy was not maturing, it was regressing. I suspect that is the point where she felt that she was getting too close to me. In her mind, less sex and intimacy equaled not being as vulnerable to me hurting her. But in the end, I was the vulnerable one and she's the one that did the hurting to me.

Yes, similar in a way.

I think I'm a pretty intense/sensitive/emotionnal person myself, and people have told me, and I used to find people LESS intense I dare say, until I met him.

Yuck 

Not really yuck. I still wanted her, liked her, and thought she was attractive to me. This was way before I knew about BPD. When she would let me have sex, she just seemed so detached. After a while it was only about a physical release for me.Things were not like this for the first year to year and a half. It just got to the point that it wasn't pleasant and only physical for me. I figured that she just had issued regarding sex and that we would somehow work it out. Well she worked it out alright, just with someone else who will get the same treatment eventually.

tim_tom, hope i am not too late to the thread… I didn't get a chance to read through all the threads, so my opinion may have been expressed by others already.  My thoughts for the reason that "nons think BPD/NPD are attractive" is that:

1) Perhaps that PDs are skillful in seek out attention from the opposite sex to satisfy their need for attention, therefore they are generally "appeared" to be more attractive through their make up, fashion, charm and demeanor at first when you getting to know them.

2) Perhaps that they just appeared to be more attractive to only Nons, because we have certain psychological profile that make us more attractive to them, hence we think they are more attractive.

3) Perhaps PDs have certain unassuming qualities at the beginning that can be mixed up with general perceptions as being vulnerable and good characteristics for a long term relationship.  For example, my uNPDw was distant most of the time and only on very rare occasion she turns on her "charm" to pretend she care during our courting phase.  Now I can distinguish the fake tone and it gives me the goose bumps when I hear she uses them.  As oppose to before married, I used to think, hey… she is not too expressive, that is good for me, that means many other relationships may have not worked for her because she was misunderstood (WRONG!).  I for one, tend to take all her negatives and spun them into positives in my head and that made her more attractive in my eyes (beauty is in the eyes of beholder).

Just my 2cents.

freedom33 you bring up some good points in this thread. for my r/s with uBPDxgf i think my approach/attraction was in a way opposite from your experience. but it's really interesting seeing how it can occur coming from the other direction.

like when you say you weren't overly attracted to your ex when you first met, but that this grew over time and you feel like intermittent reinforcement solidified the attachment. for me, it was kind of the opposite--i was very (very) attracted to my ex from the first time i saw her. and while i think the worst of the intermittent reinforcement didn't affect things until years into the r/s, if anything this is what pushed me away and made me retreat. it was confusing to me, to the point during the last year i'd keep a little log book of things i did for her and the r/s just so that i didn't think i was crazy for thinking i was earnestly trying. i've spoken about it before, but i feel that having such a strong initial attraction to my ex was what bonded me--i could do without a lot of the 'intensity'. at the time i was very non-committal in r/s so having that strong physical attraction it was easier for me to commit. and, to be honest, it's hard for me to say that the 'love' part of the r/s was more intense, perhaps it was considering we spent a lot of time together. but i never felt overloaded with love in this r/s, and i never felt under-loved or that there was no intensity in r/s i've had with healthy women. if i look back in the r/s and think about intensity the only thing i think about are weirdly intense anger, or jealousy--which always confused me and pushed me away. and, while it still occurred throughout the r/s, these bad episodes actually decreased over time, until the last 6 months or so before breaking up.

when i met my ex for the first time i was definitely smitten. we exchanged info and met up about a week later and got a drink. after talking we found out we both loved a particular artist, and it just so happened that a buddy of mine had a signed poster from this deceased musician in my studio. so, i'm like "bingo!" and get her to come back to the studio with me to show her the poster. it was great. and when we got there we started talking about the sound insulated vocal booth. i told her i used it as my scream box because i was embarrassed of anyone hearing me practice vocals (still am  ). she told me she often wished she could scream a lot. so i told her to go inside and go at it, it's fun. she was nervous so i went in myself with her outside and i just screamed like a banshee. it was hilarious. finally she did it too and we had a good laugh... .well, after this one date, i never heard from her again for years. she never responded to my triple reach--one call, one text, and last ditch, one MySpace.com message (Yeah i said MYSPACE Fool!  )). so i let it go. i kind of missed her but no hard feelings we'd only gone on one date. anyways, 3 years later, completely unannounced she just pops up at a show i was performing at. when i started my band i added all the email addresses i had in my PALM PILOT (yes i said PALM PILOT!) at the time and i guess she was on it. so she'd been getting our emails for shows for like 2 years and i didn't even realize it. i saw her at that show and the rest is history. so for me there's a lot of romance and attraction and finally-getting-the-girl that makes me smile about how our r/s started. about 6 months in when we committed and started getting serious, i remember both of us laughing about how neither of us ever thought we'd ever end up together, but glad we did. who'da thunk?

so, there was a lot of real history and uniqueness beyond BPD/attractiveness/int. reinforcement that made it so intriguing, and devastating to part. perhaps this may be closer to how Indyan felt about her ex? in any case it's not painful for me to tell the story of how we met. i still really enjoy it. to me it's one of the things that will always feel real for me.

Hi Goldy,

I was also impressed with my ex too. But not becayse she was so physically attractive but because there was a connection there. Again I am not discarding the realness of the relatioship. But I do think the abuse plays a role in the trauma bonding and the obsession - that is what I am saying above. And this is what a rs with a BPD amounts to. Trauma bonding and obsession. And for that special bonding you need intermittent reinforcement of reward and punishment.

But there was a very real connection between us to start with. We also had lots of common interests. We both play music. We both love camping and long walks in the wilderness. Coincidentally, we are both studying the same subject part time on the side. In fact that's how we started talking - We were also working at the same company. We had a similar type of humour. She 'd make me laugh a lot and I 'd make her laugh too. Great chemistry in bed. We are both intense and sex was electric (at least for me). We both had a kind of fck all attitute and don't care what people around us would say about crazy things we 'd do when we went out together. For our first date I took her to a gig that she loved and we ended up feeling like 5 year olds. I never felt this way before with anyone.  We had lots fun together and in many ways we were kind of made for each other. These common interests above are not mirroring. I have checked that she liked those things before she met me. Perhaps that is why she got stuck with me and insisted so much. Maybe with me she didn't have to pretend so much. I don't know. I was also smitten by her but just not with her looks it took a few dates for my feelings to come out but when they did man was I in love.

Now what made the whole thing super 'special' was the intermittent abuse combined with the above. This is what creates the out of this world obsession. Otherwise it would have been another 'and they lived hapilly ever after' story or it would have naturally faded away. Abuse and betrayal is key in all this.

Why fade?

I disagree, as far as I'm concerned.

The abuse and betrayal was precisely what pushed me away further and further.

However, the mystery around BPD kept me wanting to understand what the hell was going on, and I found out eventually. Even today, and God knows I'm fed up with the abuse, I'm still hoping a tiny bit. Why ? Because I believe he might get better with T, maybe... .

If there were no BPD, just a violent and abusive guy, I'dve run away ages ago.

The key word in the abuse is the intermittency. This is what keeps us hooked up, this is the mystery, this is why we are trying to understand what the hell is going on. Because we get the good bits in between. If it was all bad we would have been long gone. Consistently bad --> nothing to understand, it's just bad. Have a read about how reintermittent reinforcement and trauma bonding works. It can be helpful.

thanks for sharing. this is a great story.

i understand how the intermittent abuse seemed to increase the attachment in your experience. when i'm really honest with myself though, i just don't think this was it for me. i just experienced it different. like you i was equally attracted to my ex's personality, as well as her physicality. we would constantly make each other laugh. for me whenever i sensed she was punishing me unjustly or anything resembling intermittent abuse (although i would have been unaware of it as a concept), i think this just pushed me away. seeded doubt in me about if our r/s could work. i broke up with her twice actually. once at the 2 year mark we broke up, but then got back together after about 2 weeks. i made some promises (now i see they were boundaries) to myself regarding my needs going forward. i can't remember it all exactly but i know i had to see some improvement with her jealousies... .some other things i can't recall. and, when we got back together, it wasn't a short lived re-idealization. things did get measurably better. i think she tried her hardest and i also became less of a trigger to her. then we moved in together--i was nervous as hell as i'd never lived with a woman. well, instead of engulfment i actually became happier after moving in with her and i think this made her feel more secure in the r/s.

things could have been drastically different for her, but i feel i stayed in the r/s because we still had room to grow. we had terrible moments but the trajectory was moving towards things being better, until it wasn't. and that's when i 'left'.

there were some terrible moments that occurred in our r/s for sure. however for me i saw the worst behavior from her after our final break. she was really in a much worse place emotionally and took it out on me and her friends/boyfriends than i'd seen in all the four years knowing her. once i saw her playing games, actually trying to deceive me or not caring, then turning on the sweetness and acting like she cared--this pushed me away, and finally into NC. all of the deal breaker behaviors, that i was aware of, occurred after we broke up this second time. i did stick around and received a hefty dose of emotional abuse, but i never felt closer to her because of this and it didn't increase my desire to want to be with her. instead it frightened the hell out of my because i knew everything i was seeing meant we couldn't be together. something i desperately didn't want to happen. her being hot/cold wasn't really a dynamic that worked to keep me attached, it forced me to cut her out of my life.

there is a quote, and i forget who said it, but in essence it says "you judge a person's character by how they behave in the toughest of times. not how they are when everything is good." i've always held my r/s to this standard.

i get what you're saying that because there was positive moments mixed in with the bad stuff that this was a compelling reason to try and make the r/s work. i identify with this. but i simply don't feel that it drew me in any deeper. when things were most 'intermittent' i didn't even trust the good moments we had, i was still licking my wounds... .

Thanks for sharing your story Goldy. I can see some similarities with my story too. I broke up with my gf on month 3 as her abuse would also push me away. Went LC for a month. Decided to give it another go. Stayed with her for another four months which she'd do things to push me away and I did go away again. Broke up and stayed NC this time for a good month. All these times she would come back asking for another chance - We decided to give it another final and this time proper go.

I already by that time knew about BPD and applying SET techniques and things were actually going better. She introduced me to her parents and things impoved. I think she felt more secure after having met them and that in her mind we have made some sort of official commitment to each other. She 'd still do hurtful things to push me away though. Not the extent and the scale that she 'd do them at the start. Perhaps also having set some clear boundaries had put things in perspective in her mind.

But by this point I had lost faith and stamina in trying so I am sad to say this but I just gave up on her in the end and left her alltogether by the time we hit month 14. The reintermittend abuse didn't make me come closer to her - quite the opposite - this is why I broke up with her so many times. But until I realised that it was BPD I was obsessed in trying to understand what the hell was going on. I have never been in a rs w a pwBPD before so for me this sort of stuff was just unheard. How can someone love you on one moment and behave this way the next? Wasn't that confusing for you? How did you explain it particularly before knowing what BPD push/pull was all about?