Anyone have a theory on why most BPD's are attractive?

[How to communicate after a contentious divorce...]

I've read it countless times, here, other places. My experience too.

But the suspected causes of the disorder have little to do with attractiveness. FOO, genetics... w/e

imo, it's not that most BPD's are attractive, it's that the symptoms are much more pronounced in an attractive person. Why? Cause they can easily bounce to the next supply. They get hit on/flirted with often, and generally feel as though they have options. Options allow for confidence and freedom, freedom to embrace their more destructive sides cause they have the confidence to know there will always be the next supply around the corner. It's allows full expression of the disorder.

Someone whose less attractive, or not attractive, lacks that confidence, lacks those options. And perhaps, is more motivated to suppress destructive tendencies.

I don't know, it's the only thing I can come up with. Thoughts?

[tim_tom]

I've read it countless times, here, other places. My experience too.

But the suspected causes of the disorder have little to do with attractiveness. FOO, genetics... w/e

imo, it's not that most BPD's are attractive, it's that the symptoms are much more pronounced in an attractive person. Why? Cause they can easily bounce to the next supply. They get hit on/flirted with often, and generally feel as though they have options. Options allow for confidence and freedom, freedom to embrace their more destructive sides cause they have the confidence to know there will always be the next supply around the corner. It's allows full expression of the disorder.

Someone whose less attractive, or not attractive, lacks that confidence, lacks those options. And perhaps, is more motivated to suppress destructive tendencies.

I don't know, it's the only thing I can come up with. Thoughts?

[enlighten me]

I would have to agree. The fact that a new source is easier for an attractive person to get means that they don't have to try as hard to control their negative tendencies.

[kc sunshine]

This makes sense to me as well. Somebody should do a study of this!

[shellbent]

When I first saw my ex I wasn't attracted at all.

Only after we started talking and I realized that she had a lot in common with me that I started seeing something else in her.

I eventually fell in love with her, and after that in my mind she was extremely attractive. And now that I know she isn't who I thought, my mind plays tricks on me and doesn't allow me to really be attracted to anyone else.

I just think BPDs really try hard to put on a false self. It seems to be all about their image. So they will do everything in their power to be like the "role models" and whatever else is appealing to us

[freedom33]

My ex was very basic looking. Probably the ugliest girl I have dated.  All this meant was that she had to work harder for her supply. She was manipulative and predatory instead. Her destructive needs dictated her skillset development. She could read guys like the palm of her hand. What made them tick. And guys loved being around her. Talk to her. She made them feel good. Not sexually initially. That's how it was for me too. When I first met her I didn't like her physically. I told her I am not into anything serious the day after we kissed one night drunk. She persisted and sucked me in slowly after a few dates. Also she could read what I liked in bed. After I had sex with her that was it. I was captured. So she had to develop this perceptive capability to read people's needs as a compensation to her supply needs and also work harder - definitely didn't stop her destructive tendencies. Maybe the only difference is that she didn't dump me. If she was hotter perhaps it would have been easier to dump me first and find someone else. That's the upside. But the downside? Man... .when your gf is the one who is predatory and initiating stuff with other guys flirting etc then it feels like a double betrayal.

[fred6]

When I first saw my ex I wasn't attracted at all.

Only after we started talking and I realized that she had a lot in common with me that I started seeing something else in her.

I eventually fell in love with her, and after that in my mind she was extremely attractive. And now that I know she isn't who I thought, my mind plays tricks on me and doesn't allow me to really be attracted to anyone else.

I just think BPDs really try hard to put on a false self. It seems to be all about their image. So they will do everything in their power to be like the "role models" and whatever else is appealing to us

I agree. My exPBD isn't particularly attractive and has gotten kind of overweight a little bit. She also has very low self esteem. But she does have a knack for making people like her. Her personality to people not close to her is magnetic and addictive. She even has her friends somewhat fooled. It doesn't matter if you are physically attractive or not, new supply will line up around the block to just get a piece of a$$. Even an ugly BPD can go out and bring home a new guy every night.

[fred6]

My ex was very basic looking. Probably the ugliest girl I have dated.  All this meant was that she had to work harder for her supply. She was manipulative and predatory instead. Her destructive needs dictated her skillset development. She could read guys like the palm of her hand. What made them tick. And guys loved being around her. Talk to her. She made them feel good. Not sexually initially. That's how it was for me too. When I first met her I didn't like her physically. I told her I am not into anything serious the day after we kissed one night drunk. She persisted and sucked me in slowly after a few dates. Also she could read what I liked in bed. After I had sex with her that was it. I was captured. So she had to develop this perceptive capability to read people's needs as a compensation to her supply needs and also work harder - definitely didn't stop her destructive tendencies. Maybe the only difference is that she didn't dump me. If she was hotter perhaps it would have been easier to dump me first and find someone else. That's the upside. But the downside? Man... .when your gf is the one who is predatory and initiating stuff with other guys flirting etc then it feels like a double betrayal.

Spot on freedom. The only difference is that mine wasn't very into sex. At least with me she wasn't. Who knows what she does with/for new supply. All I know is that after the first few times she claimed that, "sex means nothing to me". Maybe she meant that sex with "me" meant nothing to her. Just hard to figure out someone who claims that, "sex means nothing", "I can't get close to people", and "I hate cheaters". Then they cheat on you. And you're like, What the heck?

[Loveofhislife]

Interesting--especially if you think about the possibility of what happens to pwBPD as they age--and lose their "power" of attractiveness. I'm guessing they become more desperate--more reckless. From pictures, my exbfBPD was a beautiful (drop dead gorgeous) younger man. At 47, after 3 years of prison, he was sallow, thin, and balding when I met him. It was as if he gained some power back when he latched onto me for a year. Before his "rapture" into Neverland on August 1, he was muscular, tan, and probably had picked up 20 pounds of muscle under my care. Must have been time for him to go back on the prowl; after all, vampires need to feed to stay alive!

[goldylamont]

I think there's truth in pretty much all the comments here. I had two theories about this to perhaps think about regarding their attractiveness. In my case I would say my ex is highly attractive yet even more so when you talk to her because she really doesn't seem to identity with her beauty. She comes across as down to earth and nice to people regardless of how they look, so you sense some type of genuineness in someone who also happens to be very attractive.

The first thought is a bit scary, but sometimes I wonder if children who get abused sometimes tend to be more physically attractive to those abusing them? Probably impossible to quantify this and the thought of it is horrid but maybe there's something here.

My second theory I think holds more ground because I've seen it with my own eyes. And that is that it's not that a pwBPD is more attractive than anybody else at all -- it's that they tend to seek out people who are less physically attractive than them since they weild more power in the r/s. So in this way they aren't more attractive than the general public but could be more physically attractive than a lot of their exes. I saw this play out with my ex in r/s after us. Physically she was way out of these guys league. In reality if she wasn't disordered I highly doubt they would have been together. It was very obvious from the outside looking in.

Very interesting hearing the other perspective though of a non not being so attracted to their pwBPD initially. It seems the disorder can find a way to manifest in any situation.

[fred6]

Hell mine had such low self esteem that whenever I told her she was pretty or beautiful, she would look very awkward and uncomfortable. There came a point later in the relationship where she would look pissed off and say "thanks" in a condescending tone.

[hope2727]

Mine was attractive to me and others. Women flirt with him all the time. It makes me wonder if I am attractive now. I just to feel attractive but now I feel like maybe I was the rebound downgrade so many people talk about here. Stupid I know. But it does make me question myself. I know it doesn't matter. I am as a attractive as I am. I am a great person and have a ton to offer so my age weight and wrinkles (all things he pointed out to make me feel less worthy) are part of the package and he was lucky to have them. Ok feel better now. thanks for listening.

[RedDove]

In my case with my ex BPDbf the attraction was multi-faceted: shared history, grew up in same small town, went to same high school, AND he dated my older sister for like a month in HS. This combined with him coming across and "playing" the genuine "nice" guy who acted like he was slightly confused about women. Playing the "victim" and "supposedly" having every prior woman/gf cheat on him. Of course I know now he was the cheater without a doubt!

Was he physically atrractive, to me yes. To others, perhaps not. The sex was amazing, but I know now it was about control. As they get older their looks and abilities fade and fail. I do believe it becomes more challenging for them to attract new supply.

My ex BPDbf contacted me on a dating site I joined. This happned just last week, after 2+ months NC initiated by me. He broke NC with a message saying what a great profile and gorgeous pictures I had on my Profile. He asked me to wish him good luck. I feel sorry for the next victim. It amazes me how quickly he dissociated the lying, cheating with the OW (guess she is, or was devalued/discarded), and the horrid way he treated me. A recycle attempt, yes, I do believe so.

Oh, and his User Name and Profile were crazy! In his pictures he looks very unhealthy and sickly. He's in his 50's, an alcoholic. Last we spoke back in June, he said he was addicted to Percs from knee surgery.

As for me, I'm 4 years younger. People tell me I look at least 5 years younger than my age. I do feel I'm attractive and in good health/shape for my age. He always would tell me how beautiful I was. However, when we went out he would remark that he felt like people were staring at us thinking he was with his daughter! The OW he left me for was older than him and a used up dirty blonde hag with poodle hair from the 80's. But, I've come to realize looks don't matter to them, they just need to find a vulnerable and willing host/supply to get their "needs" met. Sad, but true.

[Indyan]

Why do I find him so attractive? I've wondered, it's hard to tell.

I attract men a lot (just a fact, I don't play on it) and I could have got almost anyone else... .so wth?

I find him gorgeous. I mean, when he's not dysregulating

It's not just the way he looks, it's the way he moves, his eyes. There's something pure and naive maybe about it... .Or is it mysterious and dark... .Some part I don't understand fully... .

Maybe madness make people look good LOL

He says women don't like him much... .no idea.

[freedom33]

The obsession happens because our brains get hooked to the intermittent reinforcement of reward and punishment which is highly addictive. It's not even the good times by themselves that make them addictive. It is the chaotic combination of highs and lows and not knowing when which leaves you hoping for another bone. It's exactly the same brain addiction that gamblers have with slot machines. You eventually lose all your money but you keep playing as you randomly win something here and there. They go for money we went for love. Adrenaline and dopamine junkies both. And beauty has little to do with it. Once hooked the gambler won't have real preference about what what sort of strawberries the machine displays. He goes for the thrill. It's out our brain that makes them look irresistibly attractive eventually due to its nature. Sure... .some of them can be damn not and other just completely average. But it's a slot machine. For the average looking it may just take longer to get you hooked. To get those chemicals pumping in the brain. But stay enough with anyone and surely an ugly duck will start looking prettier than a white swan. Beauty is just the packaging in any rs. It attracts you to start with but it fades away after a few months at least for me. Then I get used to it whether it is model material or girl next door. I had really hot girlfriends before and I never got hooked up like this.

[freedom33]

The only difference is that mine wasn't very into sex. At least with me she wasn't.

They tend to spot people'a weak spots. Maybe you weren't that into sex ie not a major hook for you? I know sex is my Achilles heel. I have a really high sex drive and also suffer from this stupid man thing to perform. Really shallow of me I know. I am working on it. If fact I worked on it while with her. When i realised that that's one big area she has her hooks in me I consciously made an effort to desensitise myself from my obsession, whenever having sex focus on my pleasure primarily (she didn't like that) and eventually it  helped me to detach.

[Indyan]

The obsession happens because our brains get hooked to the intermittent reinforcement of reward and punishment which is highly addictive. It's not even the good times by themselves that make them addictive. It is the chaotic combination of highs and lows and not knowing when which leaves you hoping for another bone.

Yeah, I've read about Pavlov in length.

But I found him very attractive BEFORE we started dating, and we were both into relationships.

And in the beginning of our relationship BEFORE the push/pull started.

So, there might be truth in Pavlov's doggies, but up to a limit.

[Indyan]

I consciously made an effort to desensitise myself from my obsession, whenever having sex focus on my pleasure primarily (she didn't like that) and eventually it  helped me to detach.

Intriguing... .what do you mean?

[freedom33]

Indyan - That's just made it easier to get pulled into it. The nature of the obsession itself though remains the same. If you can't see this you are still idealising the specialness of it all

[freedom33]

I mean that I was going into a sort of meditative state while having sex focusing intensely on my pleasure and detaching from my need to please her and be the super lover. Funnily enough that made me a better lover than I ever was with her (although I can't  the whole thing love). She didn't like it. She didn't want me to be in control of my self and my pleasure. She wanted to control and dominate everything. I got that back when I stopped caring about what she wanted and focused on what I enjoyed.

[Indyan]

If you can't see this you are still idealising the specialness of it all

Maybe... .

But then, do you believe that specialness does exist sometimes in romantic relationships?

If yes, why should BPD be an excluding factor? He may be borderline AND have a special r/s too with someone. Is that inconsistent?

I know BPD has a lot to do with the idealization phase and blackpainting phase, ok. But putting EVERYTHING down to BPD is too black & white for me.

I'm not minimising BPD, but we are still talking about human beings here, and they do have real human feelings.

[Indyan]

Funnily enough that made me a better lover than I ever was with her

She didn't like it.

You mean better as "longer lasting" I guess... .

Maybe you were more relaxed, fully conscious rather than self-conscious. It's different from selfishness.

[Infern0]

My waif was an interesting case.

On her down days she looked pretty rough in all honesty.  But she was an expert with makeup,  hair,  clothes etc. She could make herself look amazing.

Out of bed in the morning I'd say she was a 5, but with all her war paint on she was a solid 8,  sometimes 9

Overall she was above average, when I first met her I was not overly interested in her but it's the idealisation that gets you,  I was like wow this girl has a huge crush on me,  so cute.  And then when I got the BPD waif  "talk" about how badly treated she had been and everything she'd been through.

Well after that she was the most beautiful girl in the world in my eyes,  even when she was run down with blotchy skin and dandruff.  It didn't matter one iota

[freedom33]

You are saying that you liked him before you started dating. Is that such a special thing to happen for you? Weren't there any other guys that you also liked before you dated them? Why aren't they in that special category?  

The experience was 'very special' for all of us. We are trying to understand in this part of the forum what that specialness was, what it meant and how it impacted us to learn and get a better handle of things in the future.

[freedom33]

Funnily enough that made me a better lover than I ever was with her

She didn't like it.

You mean better as "longer lasting" I guess... .

Maybe you were more relaxed, fully conscious rather than self-conscious. It's different from selfishness.

No I mean better as better for me. Ultimatele we judge our experience subjectively. I was more fully present and connecting. You 'd hope that she 'd like that. She didn't. She liked me to have pleasure only when she was offering it.

[Bak86]

My ex could look pretty amazing. On most days she looks pretty generic or downright awful though, because she simply can't take care of herself. I accepted this, because i believe you fall in love with someone for who he/she is. Now it's just sad to see 

[Indyan]

You are saying that you liked him before you started dating. Is that such a special thing to happen for you? Weren't there any other guys that you also liked before you dated them? Why aren't they in that special category?  

Actually, I don't easily fall in love and I'm not very easily attracted to men, especially when I'm in a r/s.

Anyway, I don't think that "realising it was all pretend" or whatever else would help me in anything.

Maybe it does if you need to devalue the r/s in order to feel you've lost nothing much.

But in my case, for I've no idea if he'll stop painting me black one day, I'd rather keep the beautiful moments the way they are, despite the ugly ones, and use them as a force for my baby. If he never sees his parents as a couple (no idea if he will poor thing), I'd like to be able to tell him that at least we did love each other sincerely. It was there, it was real. Part of it was idealization on both parts, but I thing all lovers idealize each other, it's only natural. But, even later, past the idealization phase, there has been lots and lots of magical moments, even if things were difficult.

[Loveofhislife]

Ok--I'm gonna jump into this for a minute--what was so great about sex with BPD and NPD was totally getting lost and complete "enmeshment" with another human being. Maybe they just disassociate, but it was completely the mental aspect with exbfBPD (not the technical); he appreciated EVERYTHING as did NPD. Spontaneous, passionate, and disassociative? Maybe. But definitely addictive!

[shellbent]

Ok--I'm gonna jump into this for a minute--what was so great about sex with BPD and NPD was totally getting lost and complete "enmeshment" with another human being. Maybe they just disassociate, but it was completely the mental aspect with exbfBPD (not the technical); he appreciated EVERYTHING as did NPD. Spontaneous, passionate, and disassociative? Maybe. But definitely addictive!

Sex has never been like that before with anyone. It was nothing I could describe. Just feeling like that was meant to be. She did nothing special. I don't know how it is possible feeling like we were so connected... .Always so passionate, deep and intimate.

[freedom33]

You are saying that you liked him before you started dating. Is that such a special thing to happen for you? Weren't there any other guys that you also liked before you dated them? Why aren't they in that special category?  

Actually, I don't easily fall in love and I'm not very easily attracted to men, especially when I'm in a r/s.

Anyway, I don't think that "realising it was all pretend" or whatever else would help me in anything.

Maybe it does if you need to devalue the r/s in order to feel you've lost nothing much.

But in my case, for I've no idea if he'll stop painting me black one day, I'd rather keep the beautiful moments the way they are, despite the ugly ones, and use them as a force for my baby. If he never sees his parents as a couple (no idea if he will poor thing), I'd like to be able to tell him that at least we did love each other sincerely. It was there, it was real. Part of it was idealization on both parts, but I thing all lovers idealize each other, it's only natural. But, even later, past the idealization phase, there has been lots and lots of magical moments, even if things were difficult.

Where did I say it was all pretend? It was very real and heartfelt and beautiful (during the ups) for you and all of us in this forum. The push and pull was very real also and causes an actual addiction in the brain. How does that mean that it is all pretend? On my part I can accept that this is a major reason that I got hooked and also accept that the highs were real for what they were and so were the lows. If you read  something I posted earlier (https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=233963.msg12500099#msg12500099) you will see that I approach this also from a place very close to my heart as you do and mourn for our broken dreams and magical moments. However that does not preclude my ability to think and offer a supplementary intepretation on some of the causes for it. Magic is subjective and it was very magical for me too. What I am describing above is also an objective approach of the same experience. In my mind I can hold both. Subjective and objective interlap. It's not an either/or for me.

[drummerboy]

This aspect has perplexed me too. At a physical level my ex was actually not very good but WOW, the connection I felt when we had sex was out of this world. I think it's about how we bought into the whole fantasy of them telling us that "you are the one I've waited my whole life for" I can honestly say I've never had sex like it. Even just holding hands walking down the street was electrifying! Our problem is that we believed the fantasy that they dreamt up.

To get back on topic. When I first met my ex I didn't think she was any great looker. She was extremely short (4' 10" I think and rather plain but once the idealisation phase was under way I thought she was gorgeous, still do to tell you the truth.

Ok--I'm gonna jump into this for a minute--what was so great about sex with BPD and NPD was totally getting lost and complete "enmeshment" with another human being. Maybe they just disassociate, but it was completely the mental aspect with exbfBPD (not the technical); he appreciated EVERYTHING as did NPD. Spontaneous, passionate, and disassociative? Maybe. But definitely addictive!