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I'm being ' unished' for being nice to him again.

Last weekend, I spoiled him.  He was being so nice and so kind for the few weeks before and, I wanted to give back.  So I did.  In the moment, he was grateful.

Since then, I've gotten nothing but the cold shoulder, rejected sexually, one word answers to questions.  He avoids me like the plague.  He's constantly tired, feeling sick, sorry for himself in some way.

The first few days, all I felt was shame and guilt and dirty - taken advantage of.  I gave to him and he rejects me.  Its been like this for a long time, and these feelings have become familiar for me.

Once I got over these, I started to have hope, and I approached him again, with understanding and acceptance, and open arms.  But he rejected me, he was too tired, too spent.  That was a few days ago, and now my anger and hurt has left me hating him.

I feel like he takes advantage of me when he gets the chance, and then is repulsed my me because I am able to be 'manipulated'.  Am I thinking too much?  Is this just self-destructive learned behaviour?

No wonder so many in BPD relationships have affairs.  We've been lucky so far that this hasn't happened.  But, honestly, as time moves on and this pattern continues, the more it feels inevitable. 

Lord help us.

It's so difficult to live with someone who is actively being cold and aloof. My BPDh accuses me of being distant because I spend a lot of time working on house projects, fixing things, taking care of animals. But the silent treatment and one word answers is definitely different--it's an active distance, rather than just being involved in doing things.

When he does that behavior I feel hurt and resourceless. I don't know how to bridge the distance and just trying to do so, I feel like a pest. So I just get involved in doing something useful (and then he thinks I'm the "distant" one.)

He also is "constantly tired, feeling sick, sorry for himself in some way." He's retired and has very few responsibilities around here because I do everything, other than his laundry, the monthly trip to the dump, mowing the lawn and paying the bills. All his waking time is spent watching TV, going online, listening to music--all fun, all the time. Yet he's constantly tired, is always in pain somewhere, spends much of the day lying down.

We both got a flu shot and hours later when I touched his arm, he flinched and told me how painful the injection site was. (I couldn't feel a thing on my arm.) I used to think he was this big drama queen, but now I wonder if he doesn't just feel pain more acutely than me.

I could be wrong, but when my BPD mother did this, it often seemed tied to her feeling vulnerable in some way.  Like if you're extra nice, it only makes the BPD dread abandonment even more than they usually do (vulnerable), because a nice person is more of a loss than a mean or uncaring one?

I don't know... .it's hard for me to put this into words.

There could be many reasons for this... .it puts you in a tough spot.

You still need to be "nice"... .just don't be in your face.  If there is rejection of nice efforts... don't react... .just move along.

Do you find you are reacting and following his mood only to find you are out of sync and one step behind. That is, you still going up when he has started to come down, and viz versa?

Yep, Waverider.  That is exactly what happens.  It happens that way almost always.  It feels like there is only room for one of us to be happy at a time. 

I try not to blame him, but it's hard to have my own emotional needs left unmet because he doesn't have the capacity to accept acts of love.  He acts like he wants to be babied and coddled, and yet when he gets it, he gets upset.  And maybe it is an internal struggle he is dealing with, but it still comes out as rejection and resentment towards me.  It's easy to throw back the resentment at him.  Of that, I know I am guilty - at least this time.

I feel like I am no longer able to be the 'strong' one, the one that keeps the emotions on track.  I'm tired of him having all sorts of excuses, and me not having any support or comfort.  In the past, when I distance myself, I gain confidence and strength to the point where I can reach out to connect with him again, only to be pushed away and resented for doing so, again.  I'm tired of the cycles.  Tired of beating a dead horse.  Tired of loosing.

We have yet to come to an understanding over this event.  We did a lot of talking over the weekend.  I shared how I was feeling, what it was like for me.  He listened.  He wanted to 'fix it' and do something for me.  But I said no.  This is what happens, he thinks he can smooth things over by reacting when he his threatened by my unhappiness, but by then, I'm already wounded.   He only wants to fix things because he doesn't want to be abandoned.  Well, I don't want to be hurt anymore.  I don't want to be punished for loving him anymore.  And the only way I can see this happening, is to stop loving him.

He 'can't' stop his behaviours, he has his BPD excuse.  He 'can't help it'.  Even tho I have emotional issues of my own (depression, lack of confidence, triggers from PTSD), they take a back seat to his, and what sort of person does that make me?  One that accepts hurt, heartache and disappointment in exchange for love.  It's so hard to take.  So hard to accept.   I don't like being that sort of person.  I tell myself I don't deserve this treatment, and yet I accept it. ?

Formflier - "Just move along" is good advice, and in reality, I guess that is all I can do, because it's the only way to survive.  Doesn't mean I like it.  Doesn't mean it helps really.  It just adds to the distance between us.  And I hate it.

Lunira, I never thought of the kindness triggering a stronger fear of abandonment, but that does make a lot of sense.  Thanks for the perspective.

And, Cat Familiar, you're comment also rings out as truth: that BPDs do feel things deeper than the rest of us.  Their pain really does runs deep, right to the core of who they are, I guess, which is why they 'can't' change.

Someday, my pain will be just as deep as his, though, if I keep subjecting myself to all this, will it not?  Unless I shelter myself, and make distance, and, well, stop loving him so much.

Being committed to a man that I am not 'allowed' to love sucks.  I don't wish it on my worst enemies.

Thanks for the support, advice and for listening.  Having a place to vent safely means a lot.

I am going through a similar situation. And it sucks! UBPDw tells me she needs time. That I have neglected for  too long. ( if this was anywhere near true I would be man enough to admit it). Tells me I have only begun to feel the pain that she has endured for far too long. I have read and read about as much as I can about BPD, how to react, not react, validate etc... .I find myseld upset, even angry at her at times. That quickly turns into empathy towards her and her illness. So I am trying like heck to take the high road and continue to tell her how much i love her and miss her. I am doing alot of small yet nice things for her. It seems the more I say and show my love the further away she gets. Very dis- heartening!. I almost feel like the positive approach is tyrning into a negative experience. God is this crushing me... .

     Do I continue this or try distancing myself from her in a new effort to have my wife back?

Yes, Crumbling, I think you need to accept that he's not going to meet your emotional needs (at least for now). You both have developed patterns of behavior that are repetitive and unfruitful. Do you have friends who can support you emotionally? I share war stories with a friend whose husband is an alcoholic. I don't know if he's BPD, but we have a lot in common. Just knowing that she understands helps me so much. And recently I started doing individual counseling with the therapist that last year saw us both for marriage counseling. Having support of friends, a therapist, and sharing my stories here has made a world of difference.

One thing that has really helped me is utilizing the lessons. I'm not very good at validating yet, but not JADEing (justifying, arguing, defending, explaining) has made a huge difference. We get along so much better now. I'm kind of resentful in that I have to do all the work, but the reality is that I'm seeing improvement in his behavior toward me. I'm sad that this relationship is not what I'd hoped it would be, but my therapist yesterday said that she's seen lots of relationships improve to the point where people rediscovered the love they had for each other in the first place. So I do believe in miracles, but I'm just taking it day by day. I've got a lot to learn and I've learned a lot posting here and reading the lessons and learning from others' experience.

I have the same experience sometimes of trying to show my husband how much I love him, only to have him question my motivation and reject my love, then later complain that I'm distant. It really is maddening. And he has the similar feel of abandonment, yet sometimes he seems like he is doing everything in his power to create just what he fears.

I've had to distance myself emotionally somewhat out of a sense of self-protection and my most recent lesson is to accept the notion of myself as "selfish" for being willing to protect myself, draw the line with boundaries and look out for my own interests. (My BPD mother manipulated me with the selfish word and I've spent my whole life trying to prove I'm not.) Now when my husband accuses me of this sort of thing because I'm not meeting his needs in the way he thinks I should, I tend to agree with him. "Yes, I'm selfish. Yes, I'm a narcissist. So what?" (I don't say this out loud, but it's tremendously freeing to accept that I might be seen that way, yet I love myself anyway, despite all my flaws.

I don't know if this helps, but I do know that plenty of us have been in your shoes. We try our best to love our partners, only to have our best efforts rejected and turned against us.    Please keep telling us your story.

4kidz, you sound like a very compassionate man who is doing his best to support a dysfunctional partner.

The suggestion I have for you comes from my experience with horse training. "Make the wrong thing hard and the right thing easy."  This is a common saying in the horse world. And how it translates to actual behavior is that horses can do dangerous things and if we reinforce that by letting them get away with it, they will continue to do those behaviors and maybe even escalate them. However when they do the right thing, we reward them by giving them the response they want.

So in your wife's case, perhaps you've been rewarding the bad behavior (telling her how much you love her when she's being unkind to you). So perhaps only reward her when she's being nice and remove yourself when she's being difficult and unkind.

thank you cat. I often find myself asking- why does this have to happen to me? For whatever reason it is what it is and I am determined to do everything I can to make this work. God willing I dont run out of gas... .

"Run out of gas"... .that's it... .I feel like I've run out of gas!

I also tend to agree with his accusations that I'm selfish.  I tell him I need to be, because no one else puts me first, and it's the only way I can feel like an equal in the relationship. 

I don't have anyone I really confide in.  I have one friend who knows my hubby well, and she instinctively knows what I mean when I allow myself to vent, but I don't do it often.  I don't want her, or any of my friends to hate him.  And my twenty-something kids, of course, I just have to say "you know what he's like"  and they do.  It's likely hurting us, but I feel like I need to 'fake it until we make it'.  If word got out around the community that I'm unhappy in the relationship, things would change a lot.  People already know something is not perfect with us, but I don't want to invite any more negativity into our relationship.  Rumors fly fast in small towns.

Thanks for the encouragement, and the kind words.  I've buried myself in work this week, and today, I will soon start a fourteen hour day.  I'm tired and spent, but too busy to worry about any of this - for now.

blessings all, c.

 

I would suggest that the ideas about "faking it"... .are something to be evaluated to see if there is a better way.

There may be many times when even nons... "normal" people "fake it" to accommodate someone else's feelings or to help a r/s.  I believe that is actually healthy... .normal behavior.  For instance... I am angry about something... I go to another person to talk to them about it but realize that they just suffered a personal tragedy.  I have empathy and delay... .or forgive the "issue" without ever speaking to them.  Some would call that "faking"... .but I call that a normal healthy decision.

The thing is... .times like that are rare.  In r/s with pwBPD those times seem to be all to common where "it's not a good time".

The point of the tools and modifying our behavior... .and trying to "turn the temperature" down in the r/s is to give more opportunities where it would be a good time to discuss "our" (the nons) feelings openly, honestly and without "faking it".

Sometimes these discussions will contribute to them dysregulating... .(we have tools for that)... sometimes they will take it fine and we can hopefully use that to build momentum in a positive direction in the r/s.

Thoughts? 

As we progress with our interactions you can surprise yourself at times that what you thought would dysregulate them (as it always did) actually doesn't, assumptions can sometimes blind us to progress.

A lot of the reason to this is that previously it wasn't just their reaction to the potential trigger, but our own counter reaction to their reaction (which they were equally assuming was comming). It may only be subtle, but small changes can make a big difference to break the change.

Even if they do react we learn better ways of damage control. Using these methods we can have less trepidation about potentially starting trouble, which makes life a whole lot easier with less bottling up of emotions.

Consistency can teach you both new levels of reasonable assumptions. They may learn slower than you but it will rub off.

I am always honest with my husband.  Most of the time it does take me a long time to express my reaction to a situation.  For instance, it took me a whole week to confront him about this one event.  But I eventually make my position known in the relationship.  Sometimes I just need to sort out the emotions swarming inside me before I can express them.  And for me, a bit of a time out before a discussion allows me time to get strong enough to use my words and brain rather than letting the emotion control the discussion.

The 'faking' part comes into play with other people, outsiders.  I'm not good at admitting difficulty or needing help, and that's where I'd rather pretend that it's just a bump in the road with others than to get into all the details.

That being said, I broke down at work last night.  Too tired, too spent, too drained to take anything else, I lost it.  My co-workers understood, and gave me time to collect myself, but what an embarrassing scene.  I was more 'out of gas' than I realized, I guess.

Today needs to be for me.  Sleep, housework, a visit with a friend this afternoon.  Maybe a nice hot soak in the tub.  It's two weeks before Christmas, and you wouldn't know it in this house.  I've no gum-shun to do any of it. 

Christmas is a heavy time emotionally for us.  His mom died two weeks before Christmas, than his dad died a week after Christmas.  That was a long time ago, and years apart, but it remains a painful time just the same.  And of course that means a painful time for me too.  Our kids aren't coming home, and that just makes me want to forget it is even here. 

If I suggest we celebrate with my family, he gets completely disjointed.  Like he is angry that I have an extended family and he doesn't.  I thought that he would someday accept my family as his own, but he doesn't.  He avoids them like the plague, even though my mom loves him like her own son.  If I insist we go, he lashes out for days, then the day of finds any excuse possible not to go.  I've given up trying over the years.  It has left him alone during the special times, sometimes, but I am tired of staying home so I can bathe in his unhappiness with him.  He didn't even come to my grandmother's funeral with me.  A grandmother I lived with for several years as a kid and was close to.

I guess I'm still mumbling and grumbling about stuff.  :| 

Then... don't do it... .

The part that goes with it is that you need to realize you have made a choice... .this should be powerful for you.  You are in control.

Can you tell us more about what happened at work?  A little "blow by blow" would be helpful

Here's how it went down... .

ding.  "Hi, this is "me", how may I help you?"

"Ggggrrrrr!... .you sc&#wed up!... .GGGGRRRRRRR!... .  YOU RUINED MY LIFE!... .GGGRRRRRR!... .DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT NOW!... .GGGGGGGGGRRRRRRRRR!... .ITS YOUR FAULT!... .GGGGGGGGGRRRRRRRRRRRR... .YOU F^#*ING B#%CH!"

I'm paraphrasing of course, except for the last three words, that's when I ripped myself out of that noose of a headset, threw it on the desk, turned to my boss and said, I cant do this, and stomped away, tears streaming down my face, just trembling from head to toe.

My co-workers gave me time, comforted me, assured me I did not need to take that abuse.  I even got a hug.  All I could do was apologize for not handling things better.  I still feel awful about how it made everyone else uncomfortable and ill at ease for the rest of our shift.  Thank God there was only a half hour of it left!

BPDh's response:  "That's too bad, dear.  Good night."

 

Who were you talking to?  What was the issue?

Sorry about being vague.  I assume everyone understands the 'ding' part means I'm at a call centre receiving in-bound calls.  The customer on the line, I was speaking to, was angry at the company I work for and was taking it out on me, and being verbally abusive.

Telling me I don't need to get into all the Christmas prep stuff made me sigh with great relief.  Sometimes it's easy to forget we have a choice.  Thanks for that, too.

I'm late to this thread and have some perspective to offer on the original topic: You are getting slammed by your husband's poor reaction to something I'll call an emotional law of physics. Here's the law:

You can be open to experience feelings, or you can shut down to avoid them. When you are open, you experience both good (pleasant) feelings AND bad (unpleasant) feelings. When you are closed, you do not experience either.

And here's how this law affected your husband:

What your husband did was open up when you were being very loving to him that weekend. (This is a good and natural thing!)

Inside his own head there is a TON of negative horrible crap that he's been trying to stuff for most of his life, plus the natural consequences of the crappy things he does when trying to stuff it!

So since he was opened up, he experienced this negative stuff too. And it was more than he could handle. No surprise there!

His reaction to this was to clamp down again... .and reach into his emotional toolbox of broken tools, and find something that still had a sharp edge and flail at you with it. Sadly, that is about all he knows.

One way to describe emotional growth as a human is the process of building your personal capacity to stay open with unpleasant feelings, in order to spend more time staying open.

Interesting concept. Defensive shutters down and you get nothing, defensive shutters up and you get whatever comes with little regulation.

:light: Providing your own regulation is the hard part!

I can see the result when I open or shut the door to my heart/feelings. That doesn't mean I know where the doorknob is, or have much control over when I open or close it.

A Buddhist meditation teacher shared this 'law' with me. She said that we practice mindfulness meditation to build our capacity to experience feelings, without getting caught up in them. That process of 'getting caught up' starts with getting attached to either wanting a good feeling to continue or wanting a bad feeling to go away... .Usually this happens before you notice it, and have already reacted. Then react to the reaction. A few more reactions down the chain, you are in full-blown dysregulation, if it goes that far! For a pwBPD this happens all too often.

The practice of noticing before you react is a powerful one. And the earlier in the chain you catch it, the more powerful and effective.

Watch and note your own emotions rather than driving them (over the cliff half the time  lol)

That's all well and good to help understand my BPDh, and everything you have said makes perfect sense.  But where does that leave me?  You're telling me, he can either feel nothing, or feel a mix of bad/good only - either way I never get to experience a 'good time' with him without the negativity.

If happiness is the goal, then there is no reason to try any longer.  It's an impossible goal.

Now I'm scared.

Hmmm... .I'm not seeing this.  Can you help connect some dots for me?

I think the key is good time "with him"... .

the best way to get to a place to do that... .is to be able to have a good time "without him"... .not in a permanent senese... .but in the sense that your happiness or sadness if not dependent on his moods.

On the off chance that I'm way off the mark her... .I'll hush and let you come back and explain more about why you think happiness is an impossible goal.

Huh?  Happiness comes from within, Crumbling   

I used to feel so upset when I'd be all excited about something and my guy would make some grumbling negative remark about it-- raining on my parade.  But wait a minute!  My parade isn't his, it's all mine and I choose to feel excited about it, yay!  He can feel whatever he feels.  His feelings aren't mine and if I change my feelings or behavior to suit his mood, then what does that mean?  For me, it meant that I wasn't being true to who I am, with respect for him.  I appreciate and respect that he feels differently, I might even tell him that :)  While, my parade stays sunny and dry |iiii

Boy was that ever a hard lesson to learn and harder to put into practice, but I am ever so glad I did!  I am finally getting the hang of being happy of my own choice, not depending on hers.  It's perfectly OK for me to have a wonderful day while she is having a miserable one, as long as I know I'm not the cause of her misery.  I try to neither rub it in her face nor allow her mood to rub off on me.  I just go on being me, enjoying what I do and doing what I enjoy.  It is a sense of freedom I haven't felt in years--I feel like a new person sometimes.  Don't get me wrong; I want to have good times with my wife, the way we used to.  But I no longer allow that to be the barometer of my happiness.  The things I most look forward to in the week now are the things that are for me.  If I get to also have some good time with my wife that is a bonus as far as I'm concerned, but if not, I'm still OK and there's always next week.

Find your happy place and go there often :)

This I can do and do do, but what do you do when they're jealous of your happiness?

Nothing   I don't do anything.  I'm naturally a happy person. 

Can you give an example of what you mean by being jealous of your happiness?

|iiii  

Everyone should take this to heart... .

This doesn't mean "abandoning" your partner to misery... .but... make some efforts to help... if it works... .keep going... build momentum and help them out of their funk.

If it doesn't work... don't get stuck in a bad day with them.

Validate that feeling for them... .don't try to convince them they shouldn't feel that way.

Then move along...

However... .I'm with 123Phoebe... .I would like a bit more of an explanation about what actually happens when he is jealous... how does that play out?

He will say things like, "Oh you've got a nice house, animals you love, projects you enjoy. I'm just an interloper in your world."

I've been feeling depressed lately (seasonal baggage) and I went outside and spent several hours fixing some livestock fencing. He came out a couple of times to "check on me"--mind you, no offers of help--not that I needed it.

Then after being outside and feeling renewed by doing something useful, he's telling me I hate him, don't care about him, etc. Nothing I say seems to get past this wall of self pity.

He flinches when I try to touch him, yet complains that I don't reach out to him. I try to explain this, then he thinks I'm criticizing him. It's totally maddening.  

And what do you say back... be as exact as you can about the back and forth until this one is over...



Same thing here... .be very detailed... ."he says you hate him... .you say... he says... .keep going until it is over.



Guess what... .more detail needed.  So... you touch him... he flinches... then... play this out for us until the end.

I agree with him that my life is nice and tell him that I've given everything I have to have him in my world and that I love him.

He says that he's an outsider everywhere and that he doesn't belong anywhere.

I tell him that I want him here and that I want things to be loving between us.

He says that I don't care. All I care about are my animals, the house, my projects. I tell him I care about him.

He says no one cares about him. He should just go away.

I tell him I want him here with me.

He asks if I want him to kill himself.

At this point, I start losing it. I'm so upset, I start pounding my fists on the mattress. This gets his attention. I start crying.

I tell him that he keeps rejecting my love. When he asks for my support, I try to give it to him and he won't accept it. (He's listening somewhat--it's like I have to act like a crazy person to get his attention.)

This goes back and forth in a similar fashion for a while until he starts crying and we both cry and hug.

Then minutes afterwards it's back to "nobody cares about me."

This may seem like a small thing and it might help Crumbling, too... .

I will admit to being pretty darned independent; I can do it on my own.  This kind of attitude isn't always necessary though, especially in romantic relationships.  It's nice when he helps me with projects; no I don't need him to if I want to get right down to the nitty gritty, I could always hire somebody blah blah.

Asking for help can feel weird, especially if I fear hearing the dreaded "NO" word.  I had to cut through that fear and on the other side I found that he wants to help me.  All I have to do is ask nicely :)

Phoebe,

I wish he'd help, but he has absolutely no interest in doing anything farm-related. He says, "this is your doing" and that's fine by me--I'm capable and if it's beyond my pay-grade, I hire help.

Just asking him to do little things is met with resistance and irritation, so he has trained me not to ask him to do anything.

He's a city boy--so we're definitely opposites. The only context that he feels equipped to help me with is computer stuff and I give him excessive thanks and appreciation for that. But I've gotten to the point where I don't even ask him to put his dirty dishes in the dishwasher. (Made that mistake before and to give him credit, he is trying to be a better roommate--if not husband.)

Bummer.  Especially the being trained part   This probably needs its own thread.

I didn't go to work today.  Had an emotional breakdown half an hour before I was supposed to leave.  I cried so hard I made my nose bleed.  That was about an hour ago.  I'm not doing well.

Feels like something has broke inside me.

hope, maybe.

All I do is cry.

I know how to detach myself from my husband and find happiness elsewhere.  Its the only way I've stayed sane over the past decade.

The burden I now carry is that when I am happy and playful, I get a negative, selfish reaction from my BPDh.  When I am weak and unable to face the world, I get a negative, selfish reaction from my BPDh.  He is the only other person in this house.   Every moment of every day that I am at home, regardless of me and my own emotional state, I am surrounded by a negatively, selfish example before my eyes constantly. 

I'm having a hard time living this way, especially now that I've taken an emotionally taxing job at an emotionally taxing time. And I am grappling with what I ever expect to get out of such a set up.

And there is no gas left in the " ut his feelings, his disease first" engine.  There's no hope left to fuel it.

He cannot help me, in any way, shape, or form.  I asked him to call in to work for me, because I couldn't keep the tears away long enough to do it myself.  He couldn't find the number.  I told him it was on my lanyard.  He didn't know what that was.  I told him my ID noose I wear around my neck.  He still didn't know what I meant.  When I tried to explain where to find it and exactly what it looked like, he barked swear words under his breath and snorted like an animal until I got up and found it for him.  Once he finally got my work on the line, he proceeds to tell them I'm crying uncontrollably and cant come in.  I could have done that, and proven it myself. 

That's the type of help I get from my guy.

Wits end.

Who decides if you carry that burden?

I get it that you have no more energy for it to be about him... .so make it about you... .about what you do.

Guess what... .you are 100% in control of that.  Guaranteed sucesss... .guaranteed that you control what you do.

Also... here is another guarantee... .if you do things differently... the r/s (relationship) dynamic will change.  We don't know exactly how... .but it will change.

Focus what's left of your energy on you... .and what you do...   It's not selfish... .it is for the good of the r/s.

What do you think that will look like for you?  To focus on your actions... and not his... .

hum.  If I took control and did what I really wanted to do right now, I would get in my car and drive it over a cliff really fast.  Or a knife through my heart.  That would work too.

And you're right, that would completely change the relationship.

OK... you got me there... .

What if you did what you thought was the wise course of action for your relationship... .? 

The good thing is... .as nons... .we have an easier time avoiding acting on impulse or according to our "wants"... or "feelings"... than pwBPD do.


Did you ever watch Saturday night live... .with Toonces the driving cat?    :) :) :) :)  

Sorry... .but that's what I saw when reading your post...

If you've never seen it... .fire up youtube... it's worth it   :)

Even Nons need their emotions validated sometimes.  Even strong people like having a shoulder to cry on.  I can take control and take action and change things for me.  It just validates what my heart is saying:  Nobody, nowhere at no time in my life, is ever going to give me support.  I either live with someone I support emotionally, or choose only to support myself and only me.  I'm not the type of person that gets, or obviously from your statements, deserves to want, support.  Makes for a very bleak list of tomorrows, formflier, very bleak.  I'm too weary.

Hmmm... .getting a bit offtrack here.  I would think there are several other options. 

I can also tell you that I was once where you were... I didn't think there was much of a tomorrow... .  I was forced out of my home for a while... .didn't know if I would continue to be involved in my kids lives... .and yet... through diligent work and a lot of time... I am now in a very good place in my life.

But... .the dark days feel real right now... .they are real.  You are not making this stuff up. 

The key is... .what are you going to do with these feelings... what choices are you going to make...

I've already chosen not to go back to work.  Don't feel strong enough to face the strangers who may or may not blow a gasket at me.

 that is heartbreaking to hear.

You aren't alone. I'm not even living with my wife these days, and it is becoming very clear to me that at every difficult turn, I can lead us in a positive direction, or let her spin out, either going nowhere or straight down. I'm having to take the lead on everything, at least emotionally. And I'm feeling pretty discouraged today.

My lifeline is that I've built up friendships with people I can call on, at least sometimes. People who can support me, and people who validate me. I honestly don't know if I'd be strong enough to make it alone.

 GK

Crumbling :'(  Aw, you sound so sad.

We're not therapists, but really would like to help, if for nothing else than a shoulder to cry on  

Is there anybody out in real life you could talk to also, reach out to?

It can feel almost impossible to do, but simply sitting with that awful feeling, not attaching it to anything in particular, just feel the ickiness and let it flow through you, don't fight it-- actually works wonders!  It's like a big crashing wave that dissipates... .

Give yourself a little time and space to decompress.

Calgon, take me away... .!

 

I do appreciate the advice and support I'm getting here, even if I maybe sound defensive.  sorry I need to keep jumping on and off the board, too, but BPDh keeps jumping in and out of the room. 

I do feel sad, so very sad.  My eyelids hurt from crying.  My heart keeps getting into twisted knots over and over. 

FF, thanks for the lighter moment, too, about SNL.  I've seen it, and you did make me smile.  I get the sense that you are strong and decisive.  I wish I could hug you so some of that would rub off on me. 

I'm thinking Phoe has some good advice -  the Calgon way,  I never did get that soak in the tub this weekend.  I guess I'm only ready to feel, and not ready to act.

GK, it also helps to know I'm not alone.  I really feel alone.  Alone and weak.

He's back from the store.  I'll check in again as soon as I can.

There are two compounding issues here

~lack of validation at home

~ A job where you are quite often subject to rudeness/invalidation/disrespect

You may be putting too much need on your H to provide all the validation and support you require. You are not getting recharged at work.

My partner used to work on call lines, and it is a burn out job, it will leach you of self esteem. Two types of people can survive these jobs, those who have no self esteem and can put up with the nonsense you get, or those who have a detached arrogance and can compartmentalize/ fake/ mirror callers without ever feeling any real empathy.

Leaving this job may be a turning point you need. You need to find something that is more supportive and rewarding, so that you are not overly relying on this being supplied at home.

Currently you are desperate for his support. It is almost like you are disabled person who requires another disabled person to care for them.

Imagine you are wheelchair bound and your partner has shortness of breath and so can't push the chair. You can either sit there going nowhere, staring at the walls and feeling sorry for yourself, or you can build up strength in your arms so you can get around easily by yourself and go do things and meet people.

Isolation is a challenge not a sentence... It can be beaten with a little application. Coming here was your first step. We can help teach you to believe in yourself and your own value... You can take the next step and cash it in.

         

         

You can do this!  What is something that you can go do... RIGHT NOW... that is just for you?  Ice Cream... go by a cake... .take  walk... .go by a book?

Remember... .it's something just for you... because you deserve it.

Crumbling,

It took me a while to realize that the validation of other people mattered to me as much or more than that of my wife.  Along with that I realized that she has BPD, and thus will seldom if ever be able to offer me that validation the way a non would, even at those times when she might genuinely want to.  I have learned this by talking to people around me, people whom I always felt were friends but had never really tried to lean on or confide in.  I was shocked, surprised, and amazed by the caring I found.  My sense of self has been so wrapped up in winning my wife's approval for so long that I never realized that other people might think well of me just for being me.

My mother was talking to a very old family friend and was confiding in him about what we have been going through with my wife.  He looked at her and said, ":)oes she have any idea how well Jedimaster is thought of by the people in this community?"  It never occurred to me that there were people around me who knew me extremely well, and yet thought highly of me.  I've never cared about my so-called "reputation in the community," and yet here I have one, and a good one, apparently.  

I can't begin to describe what that one sentence did for me as a person.  To know that other people care about me even though I have never done anything special to win their approval was transforming in how I view myself.  I now know that my worth is not dependent on anyone else but me, and if this 34 year marriage should go to hell in a handbasket next week, it will be incredibly painful, but I will survive.  And not only survive, but come out the other side with my sense of self and self-worth intact.  

If I have any advice I can offer from my experience, it is, talk.  Talk to someone, anyone, whom you feel may listen and be discreet.  If they don't listen or offer validation, go to the next one.  Find a friend, relative, pastor, therapist, support group, or someone who is willing to validate you for who you are.  I have learned I can love my wife whether I ever measure up in her eyes or not.  If we find a way to have a tolerable life together, that will be wonderful.  If not and it becomes unbearable, I have given it my best effort, and that is all that can be asked of anyone.  Good luck to you and I hope you find that person who can help you see how well you are thought of by those who matter.

No sunshine this morning, but no tears either.  Last night, I took a long bath, did some reading, had a chocolate bar and watched a nice movie I've been meaning to see for a while.  BPDh broke his sobriety of several months and drank, but I avoided him.   Every conversation he would start, I ended, not willing to discuss anything while there was alcohol in his system.  We avoided any horrible scenes that would have happened in the past, so that's a silver lining. 

Honestly, I think I really truly don't care what he does any more.  I felt no angry at his drinking.  All I could think about was that I don't care, just don't let him poop all over me - and he didn't.  Today, he's gone to work, but has called twice to get assurance that I am going back to work.   I've told him I need time to think about things.

And Jedi, I also have an appointment with my doc today.  She's not a T, but she is good at letting me vent and giving some good advice.  She is someone I trust, who knows everything about us as a couple.

And in spite of what I've told my BPDh, I'm pretty sure I've decided I'm not going back to that job.  Waverider, your observations about those places, and my situation are dead on. I noticed this myself when I first starting meeting the long time employees, they all seemed like battered women who dont really know anything else, to me.  I don't want, need or know how to put up with all that negativity at work all day then no reprise or comfort from home. 

I'm starting to realize why working with older people helped me so much.  I used to tend to seniors, and that was a job that sent me home validated, secure in knowing I've done someone good, and honestly, feeling loved.  Seniors most of the time, are very appreciative of everything you do.  It helps you to keep doing the 'dirty' work, even though it isn't pleasant at times.  Unfortunately, we got a new boss who was very threatened by me, and he ensured I didn't get certified to do the job when the gov imposed the new rules.  And the pay is horrible - bottom of the barrel.

This is what sparked me to want to start my own company, looking after the old folks.  And if you look back at my posts from this summer, this was my goal.  Things got in the way, approvals didnt come in before the bill collectors started to call and I went back to working and put that dream aside.  This is where my anguish started, way back then.  It feels more like a pipe dream now, even though I haven't stopped waiting for the gov to request a review of my proposal, which will come some time before Feb.  Pray for me that it comes in soon, it seems to be the only thing I truly desire to be doing for a paycheck everyday.  Anything else is just a fill in.  That's why I thought I could do this call centre job, because it was just temporary.  And maybe I could, if it wasn't Christmas, and if there was comfort at home. 

I do feel better today, and more apt to take action.  Thank you all for responding to my mumbling.

This site is starting to feel like a family more and more.

c.

How did you do this... .can you give us some "word for word" of how this went.  Great job not "taking the bait" or fighting... .!   |iiii


|iiii       


OK... .this is actually a good thing.  You realized what is going on... .and did not emotionally "react".  This helped keep you in control... .and you were able to make wise decisions.  Again... .great job... .I think this was a good step.


Do you have  T?  You are on the brink of having some big changes... .possibly.  Always good to have a firm and broad support system for that.  A T is a part of my support system... even though at the moment I don't see that person very often.[/quote]

*mod*

This thread has been closed due to reaching its post limit. The conversation continues on Mumbly, crumbly, grumbly crap #2 (https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=238765.0)