mumbly, crumbly, grumbly crap

[Cat Familiar]

I am finally getting the hang of being happy of my own choice, not depending on hers.  It's perfectly OK for me to have a wonderful day while she is having a miserable one, as long as I know I'm not the cause of her misery.  I try to neither rub it in her face nor allow her mood to rub off on me.  I just go on being me, enjoying what I do and doing what I enjoy.  It is a sense of freedom I haven't felt in years--I feel like a new person sometimes.  Don't get me wrong; I want to have good times with my wife, the way we used to.  But I no longer allow that to be the barometer of my happiness.  The things I most look forward to in the week now are the things that are for me.  If I get to also have some good time with my wife that is a bonus as far as I'm concerned, but if not, I'm still OK and there's always next week.

Find your happy place and go there often

This I can do and do do, but what do you do when they're jealous of your happiness?

Nothing   I don't do anything.  I'm naturally a happy person. 

Can you give an example of what you mean by being jealous of your happiness?

He will say things like, "Oh you've got a nice house, animals you love, projects you enjoy. I'm just an interloper in your world."

I've been feeling depressed lately (seasonal baggage) and I went outside and spent several hours fixing some livestock fencing. He came out a couple of times to "check on me"--mind you, no offers of help--not that I needed it.

Then after being outside and feeling renewed by doing something useful, he's telling me I hate him, don't care about him, etc. Nothing I say seems to get past this wall of self pity.

He flinches when I try to touch him, yet complains that I don't reach out to him. I try to explain this, then he thinks I'm criticizing him. It's totally maddening.  

[RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING]

RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members are welcomed to express frustration but must seek constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[formflier]

He will say things like, "Oh you've got a nice house, animals you love, projects you enjoy. I'm just an interloper in your world."

And what do you say back... be as exact as you can about the back and forth until this one is over...

Then after being outside and feeling renewed by doing something useful, he's telling me I hate him, don't care about him, etc. Nothing I say seems to get past this wall of self pity.

Same thing here... .be very detailed... ."he says you hate him... .you say... he says... .keep going until it is over.

He flinches when I try to touch him, yet complains that I don't reach out to him. I try to explain this, then he thinks I'm criticizing him. It's totally maddening.  

Guess what... .more detail needed.  So... you touch him... he flinches... then... play this out for us until the end.

[Cat Familiar]

I agree with him that my life is nice and tell him that I've given everything I have to have him in my world and that I love him.

He says that he's an outsider everywhere and that he doesn't belong anywhere.

I tell him that I want him here and that I want things to be loving between us.

He says that I don't care. All I care about are my animals, the house, my projects. I tell him I care about him.

He says no one cares about him. He should just go away.

I tell him I want him here with me.

He asks if I want him to kill himself.

At this point, I start losing it. I'm so upset, I start pounding my fists on the mattress. This gets his attention. I start crying.

I tell him that he keeps rejecting my love. When he asks for my support, I try to give it to him and he won't accept it. (He's listening somewhat--it's like I have to act like a crazy person to get his attention.)

This goes back and forth in a similar fashion for a while until he starts crying and we both cry and hug.

Then minutes afterwards it's back to "nobody cares about me."

[123Phoebe]

I've been feeling depressed lately (seasonal baggage) and I went outside and spent several hours fixing some livestock fencing. He came out a couple of times to "check on me"--mind you, no offers of help--not that I needed it.

This may seem like a small thing and it might help Crumbling, too... .

I will admit to being pretty darned independent; I can do it on my own.  This kind of attitude isn't always necessary though, especially in romantic relationships.  It's nice when he helps me with projects; no I don't need him to if I want to get right down to the nitty gritty, I could always hire somebody blah blah.

Asking for help can feel weird, especially if I fear hearing the dreaded "NO" word.  I had to cut through that fear and on the other side I found that he wants to help me.  All I have to do is ask nicely

[Cat Familiar]

Phoebe,

I wish he'd help, but he has absolutely no interest in doing anything farm-related. He says, "this is your doing" and that's fine by me--I'm capable and if it's beyond my pay-grade, I hire help.

Just asking him to do little things is met with resistance and irritation, so he has trained me not to ask him to do anything.

He's a city boy--so we're definitely opposites. The only context that he feels equipped to help me with is computer stuff and I give him excessive thanks and appreciation for that. But I've gotten to the point where I don't even ask him to put his dirty dishes in the dishwasher. (Made that mistake before and to give him credit, he is trying to be a better roommate--if not husband.)

[123Phoebe]

Just asking him to do little things is met with resistance and irritation, so he has trained me not to ask him to do anything.

Bummer.  Especially the being trained part   This probably needs its own thread.

[Crumbling]

I didn't go to work today.  Had an emotional breakdown half an hour before I was supposed to leave.  I cried so hard I made my nose bleed.  That was about an hour ago.  I'm not doing well.

Feels like something has broke inside me.

hope, maybe.

All I do is cry.

[Crumbling]

I know how to detach myself from my husband and find happiness elsewhere.  Its the only way I've stayed sane over the past decade.

The burden I now carry is that when I am happy and playful, I get a negative, selfish reaction from my BPDh.  When I am weak and unable to face the world, I get a negative, selfish reaction from my BPDh.  He is the only other person in this house.   Every moment of every day that I am at home, regardless of me and my own emotional state, I am surrounded by a negatively, selfish example before my eyes constantly. 

I'm having a hard time living this way, especially now that I've taken an emotionally taxing job at an emotionally taxing time. And I am grappling with what I ever expect to get out of such a set up.

And there is no gas left in the " ut his feelings, his disease first" engine.  There's no hope left to fuel it.

He cannot help me, in any way, shape, or form.  I asked him to call in to work for me, because I couldn't keep the tears away long enough to do it myself.  He couldn't find the number.  I told him it was on my lanyard.  He didn't know what that was.  I told him my ID noose I wear around my neck.  He still didn't know what I meant.  When I tried to explain where to find it and exactly what it looked like, he barked swear words under his breath and snorted like an animal until I got up and found it for him.  Once he finally got my work on the line, he proceeds to tell them I'm crying uncontrollably and cant come in.  I could have done that, and proven it myself. 

That's the type of help I get from my guy.

Wits end.

[formflier]

The burden I now carry 

Who decides if you carry that burden?

I get it that you have no more energy for it to be about him... .so make it about you... .about what you do.

Guess what... .you are 100% in control of that.  Guaranteed sucesss... .guaranteed that you control what you do.

Also... here is another guarantee... .if you do things differently... the r/s (relationship) dynamic will change.  We don't know exactly how... .but it will change.

Focus what's left of your energy on you... .and what you do...   It's not selfish... .it is for the good of the r/s.

What do you think that will look like for you?  To focus on your actions... and not his... .

[Crumbling]

hum.  If I took control and did what I really wanted to do right now, I would get in my car and drive it over a cliff really fast.  Or a knife through my heart.  That would work too.

[Crumbling]

And you're right, that would completely change the relationship.

[formflier]

hum.  If I took control and did what I really wanted to do right now, I would get in my car and drive it over a cliff really fast.  Or a knife through my heart.  That would work too.

OK... you got me there... .

What if you did what you thought was the wise course of action for your relationship... .? 

The good thing is... .as nons... .we have an easier time avoiding acting on impulse or according to our "wants"... or "feelings"... than pwBPD do.


Did you ever watch Saturday night live... .with Toonces the driving cat?     

Sorry... .but that's what I saw when reading your post...

If you've never seen it... .fire up youtube... it's worth it   

[Crumbling]

Even Nons need their emotions validated sometimes.  Even strong people like having a shoulder to cry on.  I can take control and take action and change things for me.  It just validates what my heart is saying:  Nobody, nowhere at no time in my life, is ever going to give me support.  I either live with someone I support emotionally, or choose only to support myself and only me.  I'm not the type of person that gets, or obviously from your statements, deserves to want, support.  Makes for a very bleak list of tomorrows, formflier, very bleak.  I'm too weary.

[formflier]

  I either live with someone I support emotionally, or choose only to support myself and only me.  I'm not the type of person that gets, or obviously from your statements, deserves to want, support.  Makes for a very bleak list of tomorrows, formflier, very bleak.  I'm too weary.

Hmmm... .getting a bit offtrack here.  I would think there are several other options. 

I can also tell you that I was once where you were... I didn't think there was much of a tomorrow... .  I was forced out of my home for a while... .didn't know if I would continue to be involved in my kids lives... .and yet... through diligent work and a lot of time... I am now in a very good place in my life.

But... .the dark days feel real right now... .they are real.  You are not making this stuff up. 

The key is... .what are you going to do with these feelings... what choices are you going to make...

[Crumbling]

I've already chosen not to go back to work.  Don't feel strong enough to face the strangers who may or may not blow a gasket at me.

[Grey Kitty]

Nobody, nowhere at no time in my life, is ever going to give me support.  I either live with someone I support emotionally, or choose only to support myself and only me.

 that is heartbreaking to hear.

You aren't alone. I'm not even living with my wife these days, and it is becoming very clear to me that at every difficult turn, I can lead us in a positive direction, or let her spin out, either going nowhere or straight down. I'm having to take the lead on everything, at least emotionally. And I'm feeling pretty discouraged today.

My lifeline is that I've built up friendships with people I can call on, at least sometimes. People who can support me, and people who validate me. I honestly don't know if I'd be strong enough to make it alone.

 GK

[123Phoebe]

Crumbling :'(  Aw, you sound so sad.

We're not therapists, but really would like to help, if for nothing else than a shoulder to cry on  

Is there anybody out in real life you could talk to also, reach out to?

It can feel almost impossible to do, but simply sitting with that awful feeling, not attaching it to anything in particular, just feel the ickiness and let it flow through you, don't fight it-- actually works wonders!  It's like a big crashing wave that dissipates... .

Give yourself a little time and space to decompress.

Calgon, take me away... .!

 

[Crumbling]

I do appreciate the advice and support I'm getting here, even if I maybe sound defensive.  sorry I need to keep jumping on and off the board, too, but BPDh keeps jumping in and out of the room. 

I do feel sad, so very sad.  My eyelids hurt from crying.  My heart keeps getting into twisted knots over and over. 

FF, thanks for the lighter moment, too, about SNL.  I've seen it, and you did make me smile.  I get the sense that you are strong and decisive.  I wish I could hug you so some of that would rub off on me. 

I'm thinking Phoe has some good advice -  the Calgon way,  I never did get that soak in the tub this weekend.  I guess I'm only ready to feel, and not ready to act.

[Crumbling]

GK, it also helps to know I'm not alone.  I really feel alone.  Alone and weak.

He's back from the store.  I'll check in again as soon as I can.

[waverider]

There are two compounding issues here

~lack of validation at home

~ A job where you are quite often subject to rudeness/invalidation/disrespect

You may be putting too much need on your H to provide all the validation and support you require. You are not getting recharged at work.

My partner used to work on call lines, and it is a burn out job, it will leach you of self esteem. Two types of people can survive these jobs, those who have no self esteem and can put up with the nonsense you get, or those who have a detached arrogance and can compartmentalize/ fake/ mirror callers without ever feeling any real empathy.

Leaving this job may be a turning point you need. You need to find something that is more supportive and rewarding, so that you are not overly relying on this being supplied at home.

Currently you are desperate for his support. It is almost like you are disabled person who requires another disabled person to care for them.

Imagine you are wheelchair bound and your partner has shortness of breath and so can't push the chair. You can either sit there going nowhere, staring at the walls and feeling sorry for yourself, or you can build up strength in your arms so you can get around easily by yourself and go do things and meet people.

Isolation is a challenge not a sentence... It can be beaten with a little application. Coming here was your first step. We can help teach you to believe in yourself and your own value... You can take the next step and cash it in.

[formflier]

  I wish I could hug you so some of that would rub off on me. 

         

         

You can do this!  What is something that you can go do... RIGHT NOW... that is just for you?  Ice Cream... go by a cake... .take  walk... .go by a book?

Remember... .it's something just for you... because you deserve it.

[jedimaster]

Crumbling,

It took me a while to realize that the validation of other people mattered to me as much or more than that of my wife.  Along with that I realized that she has BPD, and thus will seldom if ever be able to offer me that validation the way a non would, even at those times when she might genuinely want to.  I have learned this by talking to people around me, people whom I always felt were friends but had never really tried to lean on or confide in.  I was shocked, surprised, and amazed by the caring I found.  My sense of self has been so wrapped up in winning my wife's approval for so long that I never realized that other people might think well of me just for being me.

My mother was talking to a very old family friend and was confiding in him about what we have been going through with my wife.  He looked at her and said, ":)oes she have any idea how well Jedimaster is thought of by the people in this community?"  It never occurred to me that there were people around me who knew me extremely well, and yet thought highly of me.  I've never cared about my so-called "reputation in the community," and yet here I have one, and a good one, apparently.  

I can't begin to describe what that one sentence did for me as a person.  To know that other people care about me even though I have never done anything special to win their approval was transforming in how I view myself.  I now know that my worth is not dependent on anyone else but me, and if this 34 year marriage should go to hell in a handbasket next week, it will be incredibly painful, but I will survive.  And not only survive, but come out the other side with my sense of self and self-worth intact.  

If I have any advice I can offer from my experience, it is, talk.  Talk to someone, anyone, whom you feel may listen and be discreet.  If they don't listen or offer validation, go to the next one.  Find a friend, relative, pastor, therapist, support group, or someone who is willing to validate you for who you are.  I have learned I can love my wife whether I ever measure up in her eyes or not.  If we find a way to have a tolerable life together, that will be wonderful.  If not and it becomes unbearable, I have given it my best effort, and that is all that can be asked of anyone.  Good luck to you and I hope you find that person who can help you see how well you are thought of by those who matter.

[Crumbling]

No sunshine this morning, but no tears either.  Last night, I took a long bath, did some reading, had a chocolate bar and watched a nice movie I've been meaning to see for a while.  BPDh broke his sobriety of several months and drank, but I avoided him.   Every conversation he would start, I ended, not willing to discuss anything while there was alcohol in his system.  We avoided any horrible scenes that would have happened in the past, so that's a silver lining. 

Honestly, I think I really truly don't care what he does any more.  I felt no angry at his drinking.  All I could think about was that I don't care, just don't let him poop all over me - and he didn't.  Today, he's gone to work, but has called twice to get assurance that I am going back to work.   I've told him I need time to think about things.

And Jedi, I also have an appointment with my doc today.  She's not a T, but she is good at letting me vent and giving some good advice.  She is someone I trust, who knows everything about us as a couple.

And in spite of what I've told my BPDh, I'm pretty sure I've decided I'm not going back to that job.  Waverider, your observations about those places, and my situation are dead on. I noticed this myself when I first starting meeting the long time employees, they all seemed like battered women who dont really know anything else, to me.  I don't want, need or know how to put up with all that negativity at work all day then no reprise or comfort from home. 

I'm starting to realize why working with older people helped me so much.  I used to tend to seniors, and that was a job that sent me home validated, secure in knowing I've done someone good, and honestly, feeling loved.  Seniors most of the time, are very appreciative of everything you do.  It helps you to keep doing the 'dirty' work, even though it isn't pleasant at times.  Unfortunately, we got a new boss who was very threatened by me, and he ensured I didn't get certified to do the job when the gov imposed the new rules.  And the pay is horrible - bottom of the barrel.

This is what sparked me to want to start my own company, looking after the old folks.  And if you look back at my posts from this summer, this was my goal.  Things got in the way, approvals didnt come in before the bill collectors started to call and I went back to working and put that dream aside.  This is where my anguish started, way back then.  It feels more like a pipe dream now, even though I haven't stopped waiting for the gov to request a review of my proposal, which will come some time before Feb.  Pray for me that it comes in soon, it seems to be the only thing I truly desire to be doing for a paycheck everyday.  Anything else is just a fill in.  That's why I thought I could do this call centre job, because it was just temporary.  And maybe I could, if it wasn't Christmas, and if there was comfort at home. 

I do feel better today, and more apt to take action.  Thank you all for responding to my mumbling.

This site is starting to feel like a family more and more.

c.

[formflier]

 Every conversation he would start, I ended, not willing to discuss anything while there was alcohol in his system. 

How did you do this... .can you give us some "word for word" of how this went.  Great job not "taking the bait" or fighting... .!   

We avoided any horrible scenes that would have happened in the past, so that's a silver lining. 

      

Honestly, I think I really truly don't care what he does any more.  I felt no angry at his drinking.

OK... .this is actually a good thing.  You realized what is going on... .and did not emotionally "react".  This helped keep you in control... .and you were able to make wise decisions.  Again... .great job... .I think this was a good step.

She's not a T, but she is good at letting me vent and giving some good advice.  She is someone I trust, who knows everything about us as a couple.

Do you have  T?  You are on the brink of having some big changes... .possibly.  Always good to have a firm and broad support system for that.  A T is a part of my support system... even though at the moment I don't see that person very often.[/quote]

[Rapt Reader]

This thread has been closed due to reaching its post limit. The conversation continues on Mumbly, crumbly, grumbly crap #2