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My husband's face really lets me know his state of mind. When he's happy, he looks radiant and glowing and has a smile that can light up a room. But when he's depressed, that smile turns upside down and he looks like a mopey hound dog. He will hang his head and when asked questions, give one word answers.

I know he doesn't behave this way around others, just me. He will immediately snap out of it and become his cheerful persona when he's around someone else. He used to act in plays when he was in school, so I think he dramatizes his depression, just so I'll notice.

Sometimes I ignore it, but it's awfully hard to be around. And when I just go do the things I enjoy (for my mental health), he thinks I have no interest in being around him. That's very true when he's in that state. It's just terribly frustrating to try to talk to someone who refuses to say much of anything.

I try to be compassionate, but I have my limits. And asking him what he's thinking or feeling usually yields, "Nothing" or "I don't know." I used to believe that he was hiding something from me, but I'm starting to think that he actually doesn't know what he's feeling other than it's bad.

Anyone have any suggestions on coping strategies?

What is it that you want to do specifically?

Do you want to try to connect with him when he is in that state? Do you want to get better at not letting it get to you? A mix of that depending on how you are feeling?

I know that for me, when I am feeling down, I hate it when somebody asks me what is wrong and starts to probe. What I want from my partner is for him to give me a hug or sit with me and be with me in silence. He is a talker and if I don't want to talk, he thinks that I am rejecting him. I share that in case your husband is like that too. If you are wanting to connect with him, do something other than asking him what is wrong.

As far as not letting it get to you, I am short on ideas for that as I find it very difficult to get through days when my husband is feeling "off" because it seems to cast a shadow on everything and everyone. I hope I can get some ideas too!

Probing to find out what he's feeling obviously doesn't work with him. It doesn't even matter whether he knows and doesn't want to share, or doesn't know. Just stop it.

Have you tried validating that he looks really down / depressed, without inquiring about what or why?

I think that reassuring him that you CARE how he feels is the best thing you can do.

You know him... .will he respond better to a non-verbal version (like a hug), or verbal validation?

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Not letting it get to you? Doesn't work that way. Accept that you do have all sorts of feelings when he acts depressed. You may be feeling compassion. You may be afraid that he's going to blow up at you. You may just feel exhausted from dealing with him. Don't try to argue yourself out of the feelings.

You can take action to protect yourself and manage your own mood--if his depression is getting to you, find someplace else to be or something else to do, or somebody else to be with / talk to that will be uplifting and enjoyable to you... .or at least safe for you to experience your own feelings!

When you return later, you may find that his mood has changed. Or that you aren't feeling reactive toward it and can be compassionate. Or you may find that you need more space away from it.

Thanks, Vortex. You're absolutely right--I also hate being "probed" when I'm down. (palm meet forehead )

There are times I do want to try to connect with him when he's in that state of misery. I realize that I was the "family cheerleader" in my FOO--trying to distract my parents from fighting, being goofy so that people would laugh. I feel totally useless and helpless now because there's nothing I've been able to do to "distract" him from his misery.

And when he's "down" it truly sucks the life energy out of the room. All I want to do is be away from him.

Thank you, Grey Kitty. I can't believe that I've kept doing the same thing--the probing--without realizing how totally ineffective it is. OK, now I totally get how obnoxious that must be to be on the receiving end of my questioning.

I've tried validating that he looks down or depressed. But I have yet to try doing that without doing the probing. YIKES!  lol

He's a difficult one in so many ways. Sometimes when I just try to validate--just observe something about him, he thinks I'm criticizing him. "Now what am I doing wrong?" he'll ask me. I pledge no followup questions. It's second nature for me to ask questions--I worked as a journalist for a while and I'm just naturally curious. But I will quit asking.

When he's in "that state" and I try hugging him, it's like hugging a cardboard box if he stands still. Or when he seems uncomfortable with being hugged and pulls away, it's reminiscent of when I was a child and an elderly aunt with halitosis and stinky perfume tried to wrap me in her arms--totally invalidating for me to even try to give him affection.

I do take care of myself through being with friends with whom I can completely and comfortably be myself, hanging out with my animals, doing things I enjoy. The problem is that I'm so good at doing that, it triggers his fears that I don't want to spend time with him--which is often true.

I guess my question is how to manage my own feelings of discomfort with him in the evenings--other than doing my own thing. We often watch TV--he watches it hours a day, but I probably watch at most an hour at night with him, not every night. He grumbles because I'm so picky about what I watch--but I'd much rather do something else than watch mindless stuff. Then sometimes when I'm really paying attention to a show, he's upset because he thinks I'm not with him.   

Maybe he doesn't want to be distracted from his misery!  :)

In all seriousness, I am seeing a pattern in myself and in other people on the boards. A lot of the things that we complain about with regards to our spouses are some of the same things that we are doing to them. One of my complaints is that my husband doesn't seem comfortable with letting me feel my feelings. If your husband is down, let him be down. No need to question him or try to distract him from his misery. If you are feeling strong enough and are in a good place, try to find ways to let him know that he can feel his feelings without you trying to be the cheer leader.

This is a good theory. He certainly spends a lot of time being down and looks for things to feel down about. I guess I will start accepting that and just letting him be without trying to make things better. (One less thing for me to be responsible for.  :))

The funny thing is on those rare moments when I'm down (I'm typically Little Miss Sunshine)--he goes into cross-examination mode and won't give it a rest until I talk about it.

Managing your feelings is solving the wrong problem. You don't manage them. You either experience them... .feel them. Or you avoid them.

You should choose or manage your actions--that is very different.

For example... .you feel uncomfortable with his depression. So you probe him to find the reason for his depression in an attempt to 'fix' his depression.

Your action doesn't do anything good for his depression or for your relationship.

However, it DOES allow you to avoid the original feeling of discomfort--now you are feeling hurt and rejected because of how he responded to your probing!

I'm offering you a few different approaches:

1. Sit with your feeling of discomfort, without trying to fix anything.

2. Look for compassion without judgement. (What you said you haven't tried)

You can try the verbal validation.

You say hugging him is like hugging a board; he probably isn't eager for it. You could ask "Would you like a hug?" or "Would you like to cuddle?" and then honor his request. Perhaps he will hear the request as a demand, and react badly. If so, think about how you presented it.

If you sincerely want to show him you care about exactly what he is feeling right now, and don't need to fix anything... .you take your cues from how he responds, and if he doesn't properly receive what you are offering, it isn't his fault, nor is it your fault. It is, however not achieving what you are trying to do, so keep looking for a better way!

3. Remove yourself from the uncomfortable situation... .before you take a harmful action [above example]

This is all about being mindful of yourself and your own feelings. Which is very hard and subtle work. 

Exactly! I know I have to take a step back and remind myself that I am not responsible for his feelings or his behavior. It sounds so obvious but I sure as heck don't act or feel like it sometimes. And, if it isn't my responsibility, then why does it bug me? I have that conversation with myself all the time.


Yep! Same here. I will announce to everyone in the house when my cycle comes to give them all fair warning. I will tell him and it seems like not long after he will start in with the "what's wrong" stuff.

@Cat, my husband will have days like that too. I usually just do my own thing, and pay no mind to it. It does make me uncomfortable because I want to DO something about it, but I cannot.

I do not even ask him what's wrong. All I do is look at him in the eye and say "Hun, I know something's bothering you, and I wish I could make you not feel badly. I am here for you if you want to talk about it. I love you" and that's it. That's the only time I acknowledge it. He will usually be quiet and moody the rest of the evening, and I leave him alone. From time to time, I'll make a comment about something I read, ask him if he wants something to drink... .and I do it with a smile on my face.

Usually the next day or two he will break the silence and talk to me about whatever it was. He has told me before that he likes to have time to maul over what's bothering him in his head for awhile. He appreciates me giving him that time and not bugging him. In the past, I used to do the exact same thing. I'm a fixer, I'm a doer. I like to stare a problem in the face and deal with it or come up with a plan of action. He likes to hide. HUGE difference lol

I'm so glad that I'm doing therapy in conjunction with the opportunity to get such good support on this board. I'm really seeing how FOO stuff (having had an uBPD mother) has set me up in life-long automatic patterns that I'm so used to doing, I don't even notice them.

It never occurred to me not to ask the "What's wrong?" question. I thought that if you love someone, that's a way to demonstrate that you care. But when turned around on me, I realize that it can be incredibly uncomfortable and intrusive.

Wow. I wonder how many more of these automatic programs I'm compulsively doing without awareness... .

@cat the conversation with my husband last night had him telling me how he thinks the reason i react the way I do is because of my upbringing and he brought up examples... .the dude is so in-tune with me but he can't seem himself. Silly. At the same time... .I couldn't see MYSELF.

It's good that you are seeing some of this, and it's good for me. And I must say I am just so glad for you people. It's so helpful for me to have these talks it refreshes me. I'm learning about myself as well as BPD!

I like how you validate it and acknowledge your feelings, while giving him an opportunity to talk whenever he wants and demonstrating that you love him and care about him.

I'm a fixer too--and a thinker, rather than a feeler. I want to tackle things head on and if I'm upset, I always know what it's about--I may not have all the details worked out, but I do that actively, rather than passively wait to understand things. It's a very different mindset and I've got to remember that my husband thinks (and feels) very differently from the way I do.

It's a very hard lesson. I'm still learning, too. We are all learning together <3

Yes, the blessing in disguise for having to deal with a pwBPD is that we get the opportunity to examine ourselves more deeply than if things are going smoothly with our partners.

I find it really funny that when I've taken those online personality disorder tests, and I've tried three different ones, I get the same result: off the charts for OCD and higher than average for narcissism.

I can really see the OCD, although I had relatives who demonstrated it much more profoundly with perfect Martha Stewart-ish lives. I certainly come nowhere close to that, nor do I do the weird sanitizing door knobs kind of behavior nor the other goofy counting stuff or obsessive hand washing. But the other day when I was balancing my checkbook, I wondered why I needed to do it "to the penny" and look for a mistake that gave me 13 cents more than the bank thought I had. There's my OCD. It was a relief to say fuhgeddaboudit.

Now, as to the narcissism, that's truly an embarrassment to realize how self-obsessed I can be that I can be oblivious to social cues. I used to think that narcissists were only people that thought they were so great, not people who had self esteem issues like I had growing up. But now I realize that narcissistic traits are found in people who are too self-focused and self-preoccupied. Oops. Guilty as charged.

Haha yep! I don't have OCD, but I do have general anxiety disorder and narcissism myself. I'm pretty embarrassed to say I think I'm smarter than a lot of people, which is a pretty crappy and conceited thing to think. What I've been working on with my T is self-esteem issues. I used to think the same thing about narcissists that you do. As it turns out, I most likely prop my own self up so much because I don't believe in my own value, and I did not have sufficient support as a child. So, I try taking care of everyone myself and everything BY myself.  I am also extremely self-absorbed. /sigh

"I'm pretty embarrassed to say I think I'm smarter than a lot of people, which is a pretty crappy and conceited thing to think."  Not if it's true!  

I think a lot of us who grew up with critical parents developed self-esteem issues and because we were so unrelentingly criticized and analyzed and dissected, we developed some narcissistic tendencies. When your behavior is such the focal point of your parents, it disempowers you and at the same time, makes you believe that everyone is looking at you and analyzing your behavior, appearance, and what you say.

And then when the trivial things we do are given way too much importance by our parents, we may feel like we're supposed to take responsibility for more than our share. I think that intense parental focus helped me become a good student, but it also made me feel like I was supposed to be in charge when other people weren't being as responsible as I thought they should be.

I don't know if that last paragraph makes sense to anyone but me.

It's true in the sense that I have a high IQ, but I'm aware that it kind of makes me a jerk. I tend to be highly critical of people and hold them to standards they probably cannot accomplish.


Oh no, it makes perfect sense. For me, my parents were the opposite. I was ignored. I was "there". I was an overachiever. I was a straight A student and taking college courses in 10th grade. I think a lot of it was I wanted my parent's approval, but part of it is just who I am, too lol

Oh, we would have been best friends in high school. I was in the "overachiever's club"--not too many members then because most of my friends were too busy trying to develop their social skills while I was busy being a nerd. For me it was a case of "when your only tool is a hammer, you treat the world as a nail." School was the only thing I was good at. It would have been nice to have a more balanced life then... .

It actually gives me problems now. My D14 is soo not like me. She's nerdy, but into art and anime, her friends and boys. Her grades and are just barely scraping by. I've had to ground her from things to get her to do homework. It's not that she's stupid, but she just doesn't do the work.

For a person like me... .I cannot even begin to understand that. Your work is a reflection of who you are. How in the heck do you just... .not do it? How can she sleep at night?

I'm an overachiever at work. I frequently put my foot in my mouth at work by offering to do more, to take over projects myself and put the responsibility on me. That way, it's going to get done right. I don't really get recognition for it which irks me.

Cat:  Ugh, I know exactly what you are talking about.  95+ percent of the time, I'm upbeat and positive, but if my mood so much as turns neutral, then uBPDw goes into full inquisition/interrogation/cross-examination mode insisting that I tell her what the problem is.  Most of the time, I'm not even upset, really just neutral - until her interrogation starts, then I tend to get angry with her over her unnecessary BPD cross-examination tactics. 

If I don't come up with a reason for "what's wrong", then she is likely to fly off the handle into full dysregulation mode with accusations, emotional abuse, and/or suicidal ideation.  If the "what's wrong" happens to be something she did, she might skip straight to the suicidal ideation.  Blah.

It's amazing how predictable they are about some things. Fortunately I don't get the suicidal ideation. His issue is more about saying he's a bad person if I say anything that can be taken as a criticism. Even if I disagree if he asks me if I think the sunset has a magenta tone and I say it's more cinnabar (not that we say this, but just as a trivial example), he might think I was being critical.

Hahaha, that's a pretty hilarious example of how different interpretations of a sunset could lead to a blowout if you're not careful... .only in BPD-land!   

After weeks of glumness (is that even a word?) I've recently seen a smile cross my husband's lips.

Thanks to the support here, I've tried to extinguish my knee-jerk impulse to try to "fix" things and make him feel better. I realize that I really dislike being around someone who is "actively" depressed--it's almost like he's being so dramatic with his expression that it's aggressive.

Case in point: the other night he didn't like the dinner I had prepared (he told me later). At the table, he quit eating and hung his head, sitting there silently for several minutes. He only responded to my questions with one word answers.

In my world this equals a$$hole behavior. It's fine if he doesn't like the food I prepare, but the drama I can do without. Whatever--this is BPD-land (love there term, Wrongturn1!)

I love the word BPDland too!

Oh I got one! I got one!

Last night, we were getting ready for bed and we usually put the dog at the foot of the bed between us with his feet facing off the bed so he doesn't kick us all night. If the dog had his way... .he'd sleep curled up in my butt all night. Not joke.

The dog slept on my butt the night before. I didn't move him because I was exhausted. Well, right before we lay down (he loves to complain right before bed) he states how he slept horribly the night before because the dog pushed me over to his side of the bed... .and why... .he was just half hanging off! AND! There's this rough spot on the mattress that he had to curl around!

He makes this statement every time the dog sleeps on me. No... .he's not hanging off of the bed... .ever. rofl

Oh, this is familiar territory!

On the few occasions that my husband sleeps in the same bed with me, typically a cat or two will accompany us. He's always complaining that the cat and I push him to the edge of the bed and that he is hanging off. When he does that, I'll look at exactly where we are in relationship to the middle of the bed and usually he will have just as much room as I do.

WOW! I always look too and it's NOT happening! what the heck lol maybe he's... .kind of jealous of the dog?

Yep. That's what I think it is. (I get along better with the cats than with him.)

He always brings up when he brought the dog home (we saw him wandering the streets on my way to work he stopped to save him) that he thought he would be his dog but he took to me because I "use puppy dog voice and talk to him like a baby" and then he's quick to say he doesn't mind. The fact that he says this over and over tells me he does mind.

I am a dog person and I tried to tell him dogs love me. /shrug

Apparently, animals notice emotional maturity... .and prefer people who have more of it. 

My husband is always questioning if the cats still love him.  And he can feel rejected by a cat if the cat doesn't pay enough attention to him!

And he wonders if the horse I bought for him still remembers him. If he would just spend some time with him, Blue might be a bit more demonstrative. Horses have great memories and he knows when he's being ignored. Of course I don't say that.

Again CF... .the similarities are astonishing. Mine is always saying the dog respects him as Alpha but he loves me more. He also says if the dog was female... .it would totally be his. PS... .my D14's dog is female... .and she likes me better as well lol

My husband is always wondering if people like him too. Yet, he is the first to reject someone for not meeting his stringent criteria. (How I ever passed the test, I don't know.  )

We had dinner last week with an old friend of his and his young girlfriend. The guy is kind of skeezy, but he's intelligent and is interesting--oddly enough he's a psychologist and he will say the most inappropriate things in public. (We're in a Thai restaurant, he dates a young Singaporean woman and he turns to my husband and me and says, "All these Asians look alike." I just roll my eyes.

So, after this dinner, without any further issues, my husband proclaims to me that this is the last time we'll ever see this guy. He's always like that and my husband has been long distance friends with him ever since he was in law school. When the weather warms up, they certainly will be dropping by to use our swimming pool. So whatever, I think and let that proclamation slide without responding.

And on Saturday, he's going to take out a former colleague, who is now dating a former county supervisor that my husband had also worked with. He tried to get out of seeing them, then caved and now he's telling me that is the last time he wants to see her. She was his best friend for several years when he worked at a job he despised. But now they have nothing in common. (Kinda sets off my radar--he really liked her when she was single, but now he has nothing in common with her. They were such good buddies at work that some of their colleagues thought they were dating. He says his relationship was one of a mentor and now she has advanced in her career and they don't talk much. At the time, I wondered if anything was going on, due to my history with my first husband running around with women behind my back and in plain sight and since I wasn't jealous--I didn't even see it.)  I don't think that was the case, but who knows?

Last night as I was preparing to go to bed, my husband told me that his feelings were hurt the last time we slept in the same bed because his favorite cat slept on my side!  

I wanted to laugh, but I didn't.

Good girl for you to be able to stop from laughing! I have a really hard time sometimes!

About your husband's co-worker... .it's hard to say. Was his behavior towards you at all different during that time? With the way they are able to cut people off... .who knows!

We went to visit my husband's son and family this weekend, and while the guys were gone I talked more to his wife, and we were comparing notes about how they re-write history during an argument and the rages. She started talking about how he will go on and on about something and get mad at her for 'not listening'  and tell her he's going to go on longer now because she cut him off.

We were laughing so hard because even the language they use is similar. Anyways later on they came back... .we were talking for a bit. She said something... .he cut her off and started talking... .forgot what he was saying. She said "So anyways... ." and kept going with what she was talking about before.

He then said if she would have let him finish he would have remembered what it was. We kind of just looked at each other and tried not to laugh.

He used to talk a lot about his co-worker and I started wondering.    However, we both previously had relationships where we were betrayed by our spouses and I really doubt that he would do that. I think it just was casual flirting. But you never know. Since I wasn't previously a jealous person (that was before my first husband the sex addict), I really never imagined that a spouse would cheat--how naive.  

But I do think my current husband has gotten a lot of self-worth from women flirting with him. It's funny how he's left behind the metrosexual lawyer in the expensive suit look and has grown his hair long and looks like he should be at Burning Man now.

And I think he was a bit disturbed seeing his co-worker with her boyfriend, who, by the way was a fascinating guy. I could have talked all night with him. Actually, I think we dominated the conversation at dinner. His co-worker had put on some weight and she looked way more casual--actually kind of sloppy--but they were headed to a concert after dinner. Previously she was always impeccably groomed and looked like she should be on the cover of a magazine for women executives. She just wasn't as gorgeous as she used to be, but time changes everyone. She did look happy.

And it's so funny about the self-importance of pwBPD--how they hate being interrupted, though they're so willing to interrupt others!

Yeah they do get inflated with flirts/attention it's possible that's all it was. My husband was also cheated on, so I know part of his paranoia is from that. He talks about it when he apologizes for assuming something.

My husband also get a lot of attention from females. He's a good looking guy, and they are magnetic with their personalities. I think if he was ever going to cheat, his behavior would tell on him. I would most likely be painted super black, and he would invent things to get mad at me so he could run off. That's just a theory, though.

Cat, let me pass some advice along to you about this. I'm not normally a jealous person either. I've been somewhat jealous of guys in my wife's life before... .and looking back at it, there always was a good reason for me to be jealous. My jealousy may have missed some things, but every time it was triggered, it was 100% correct.

And let me be clear. That doesn't mean that my wife was cheating with the guy who evoked those feelings in me. However, she was at least doing more than just flirting for fun (which she does do). There was something else going on, or she was thinking about something else. Sometimes it was an emotional affair kind of thing.

Don't assume that he is cheating just because you are jealous--that is reading more into your jealousy than really is there. But do pay attention.

My takeaway is that if I am jealous of a specific person in my wife's life, then there *IS* something going on there, and my intuition is telling me that I need to pay attention and examine the situation more closely. You would do well to do the same.

Grey Kitty, that's really good advice, thank you. While I don't think he'd cheat, it certainly made me question what was going on with their relationship several years ago when he first started working at that new job. He had come from a very metropolitan area to be with me and then found himself working as an attorney in a good ole boy backwoods government office and this woman was the only person he could relate to. I met some of his other co-workers and I really understood what he was talking about. He was definitely not exaggerating.

She helped him buy presents for me; she ordered the cake for our wedding; we had dinner with her and her on-again off-again boyfriend on a couple of occasions. Once when she visited us, she said that she had wanted to find someone "just like" my husband. That really set off my radar.  

His work involved advising her (she was a department head) and now she has advanced in her career amongst the yahoos, and the county government is evolving in a more twenty-first century direction. He's retired now and she's more confident, so she no longer relies upon his advice--so he has lost his usefulness. And the fact is that her attractiveness (and availability as she's in a serious relationship now) has diminished.

What was surprising was that my husband was actually dreading seeing her and her boyfriend for dinner. (He had also previously worked with her boyfriend, a former elected official who is a genuinely nice guy.) My husband was thinking he would cut ties with her (and this is the same guy who complains about not having any friends) and I said, "But she was your best friend." And he replied, "In that context."

So, it really made me wonder why he was so willing to let go of that relationship.   

The jealousy/intuition tells you that something that matters to you/your marriage is happening.

Like I said... .it doesn't tell you the result.

Your H has BPD. He's not good with close relationships... .that's why you are posting here lol ! So his blowing up a r/s shouldn't be a huge surprise. Getting a whiff of abandonment from her, and deciding to cut her off completely fits the BPD playbook pretty well too.

Whatever risk there was seems to have spent itself without becoming a real problem.

The BPD playbook indeed! I keep thinking that his behavior should make sense (although I know it doesn't). Does it ever get less confusing to be in a relationship with a pwBPD?     Thanks for the reminder.

Cat and GK- I recall a coworker like that. I wrote on a previous post that my H admitted she tried to seduce him. I was always suspicious of that r/s. At the time, my H was painting me black. It all fit together. They were close for about 10 years. Eventually she left town. He has always denied it was more. But I agree with GK- I am not usually jealous. I did protect myself and go to my own gyno for a check up for any sexually transmitted diseases. I knew she had been with others. My H would be horrified if he knew I did that. Although I had no proof he was doing anything, I was never sure enough.

On the other hand, if he met up with her, or someone for lunch, and told me about it, I would let it go, because, being upset wouldn't have made a difference. I was upset about the one I mentioned, but if he was going to do anything, that would not have changed it.

The other reason is that it makes me crazy to be subjected to his jealousy over the few times I have had the chance to meet old friends who are not romantic in any sense. I don't socialize with men in general, there isn't much desire to as well as the fact that as a mom, I am usually with other moms and kids. However, there are a couple of men who don't live near me who I grew up with, and they are happily married with wonderful wives. The few times I have had the chance to see them, my H has had awful- miserable- rages over when we were in private and he was with me the whole visit ( and their wives) With one, he was so angry driving in the car, it was terrifying. His argument is that I wouldn't like it if he saw a female friend like that.  

Actually, even if I didn't like it, I don't believe that being married means you give up your friends, albeit your relationship must consider spouses. So, if I want the freedom to see old friends, he has to have it too. So I'd let it go. If he's going to cheat, he'd do it anyway, and I believe that if someone cheats, it's more about them than the partner.

Thanks, Notwendy. When my intuition tells me that something is possibly going on, I'm not going to ignore it. I really think that my husband is trustworthy, but he loves to get emotional support (or admiration) from women. Actually, I'm not really sure what he gets, but I think whatever it is feeds his ego. He knows I see too deeply into him and that I know his weaknesses, so getting props from women who don't know about his mental illness and substance abuse probably makes him feel "normal."

There is a woman he's known for decades. She was friends with his ex-wife and is very beautiful. My ex-husband had a major crush on her. My current husband wanted to date her after his previous marriage fell apart, but she only was interested in being his friend. However, she is a tremendous flirt and apparently is now an alcoholic. Fortunately she lives hundreds of miles away, but she did visit our area once. I was certain that she was attempting to seduce him, so I made sure that she had no opportunities to do that. I told my husband my concerns, and he brushed them off, but then later, he admitted that I may have been correct in my assumption and that she was "crazy" and in a desperate economic situation.

They did keep in contact occasionally and my husband learned that this woman seduced the husband of her best friend and was reduced to sneaking out the dog door when her friend returned home unexpectedly.

Since then, we've gotten occasional drunk dialing calls from her at midnight. I told my husband in no uncertain terms that this is completely inappropriate and he let her know that her behavior was unacceptable and extremely rude and disrespectful to me.

I think this woman has used her sexuality for years and whenever she has contacted my husband, she has run out of other options for the moment. Fortunately I think he has realized that my assessment of her is most likely correct.

I understand this. My H has a wonderful persona with people he is not intimate with. He saves the rages for me. I would not have been as upset with this other woman if he had not painted me black at the time and was treating me poorly. She idolized him, and at least was a source of ego gratification. Meanwhile, I'm home alone with the kids and my self esteem dropped.

This woman also was very flirty and seductive and not just with my H. I actually began to suspect she might have BPD by her idealization and dramatic behavior.  I've wondered if my H's decision to try to improve the marriage was as much a part of her drama as  my being depressed at the time.

I do not doubt he liked the attention, but I think he prefers the caretaker type.

At any rate, she left town, and I haven't been concerned since. In the meantime, some of my friends' marriages broke up over cheating, and I read about it out of curiosity. It's usually the fault of both people in a way, and more about the cheater than the one cheated on. I know some serial cheaters, and they seem to only want the initial thrill of the relationship, not the long term part, some are narcisistic.

In the end, I can only decide for myself what I can do. If he's gonna cheat, he will. I can't really have restrictions on who he sees as he will then turn around on me and say how much I upset him by wanting to see my childhood friends.

My first husband was a serial cheater, but I did not know about that until I was well into the relationship.

He moved into my life when I was at a really low and weak point and he was very attentive and caring. I really wasn't that into him, but he was persistent and I just went along with what I thought was "meant to be." It wasn't long before the cheating started and the lying. He was very good at weaving a narrative to distract me from what he was really doing and I naively bought into it.

I sort of blamed myself because I was never "in love with him" although I did love him, or at least tried to. So if he were to cheat, it was because of something that I was unable or unwilling to give him, or so I thought. (I think a lot of cheaters are narcissists and are very good at manipulating their victims to believe there's some deficiency within them which justifies the cheating behavior.)

Anyway, after years of dealing with his bad behavior (he was also physically and verbally abusive), my self-esteem was in the toilet. It was a perfect set-up for him--he could get away with whatever he wanted because I was too weak and afraid to leave. But ultimately I drew a line in the sand and told myself that I was just waiting to die in this relationship and that I was out the door if violence or infidelity happened again. (This is a sign of having faith in him, despite evidence. I somehow believed his promises that he had changed and that his bad behavior was now in the past.)

So when the violence happened, I had to either choose me or waiting for a slow death in this relationship. I chose me. I left. It was really hard. But I have not had a moment of regret.

Smart woman.

I know a serial cheater as he dated a friend of mine. Although she was kicking herself for falling for him I remind her that any woman who was available to him would. The man is that good. I knew him through some volunteer work. Fortunately, he has no interest in me and knows I am on to him, so we have a superficial and congenial work relationship. It's as if he has compartmentalized his unromantic relationships and then, his victims. He's an even keel pleasant and congenial person with those he has no other interest in, but with his victims, he turns on the charm- and he's good. Its a complete act, but it's hard to tell unless you know someone he has dated. He's very romantic, declares he's in love, the women are swooning. Then, when they are settled in with him, he's abusive.

I count my blessings that I'm out of that first marriage and when things get challenging with my current husband, I realize I've been through so much worse. It's hard to be in a relationship with a substance abuser, but he's always been kind and supportive (in general--not those times when he has dysregulated).

My first husband assaulted his next wife, was arrested, left town before his arraignment, and currently has an active arrest warrant, so it's unlikely that I'll ever see him again, thankfully.

Yes, you are much better off. I count my blessings I didn't fall for someone like the person I know. I also don't blame the women who fall for him. It makes me cringe to think he could hurt people like that, and seem so pleasant to others.

I wish there was a way to out guys like that so that more women are not taken in and hurt.

I do too. I think people knew, but he was able to convince women that they were the one. I think he believed it too, but was not aware of the devaluing phase- push pull thing which he must have done too. Or he was that sociopathic.

HINT: Posting publicly on facebook to all your friends that he is that kind of guy isn't the solution you are wishing for!  I've got a woman who is a FB friend who did that recently. [I don't know the guy she 'outed']  She's a sweet person, but generates waaaaaay to much drama, so this is less of a surprise that it might be. Fortunately she's living far far away from me!

Facebook isn't a good place for drama but there is plenty of it there.

I'm always fascinated by the amount of people willing to air their dirty laundry to everyone from co-workers, high school friends, family, etc. Even more so, the ones willing to drag their spouse threw the mud. *shakes head*

Yeah it would be nice to 'out' these guys, but social media is a double-edged sword.

Our world is so different than the days when people lived in small towns and villages. Even though I'm in a fairly small rural area, there is still a lot of anonymity. But people in this area certainly can develop "reputations."

It's frustrating to see these serial predators prey upon unsuspecting victims, but I agree that social media is not the place for outing them. And have you ever tried to warn a friend about their latest unreliable love object? Certainly doesn't play well and there's no use later for the "I told you so's."

*mod*



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