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Not sure why this matters, i would to like to think she in the same place as me or worse.

This post is pretty open i know   feel free to comment

I am sorry. I believe that this is a common feeling. It has come up in different ways on the boards a lot, and I certainly have experienced it. In fact, I was wrestling with this last night and earlier this morning. It seems to be a part of grieving.

Can you elaborate on what you are feeling?

I can't speak for yours shatterd but mine was fine after the first week and that's when the real anger and lack of empathy began

Is she happy now ? I'm not sure happier maybe as she can be more selfish without feeling guilty meeting new guys , buying a new house , going on trips etc  but when my bro met her six months out she conceded I'm not the total sum of her unhappiness which implies she is still not content .

Ultimately these are woman with no real sense of self introspection and an inability to accept responsibility for their own sadness so if she is not hurting over you believe me she is hurting over something


I'm still kinda in shock to think of how close we were and now I'm just a ghost in the wind to her . but this is part of the disorder they split us black mine was conflicted for over a year with the push /pull and was even "nice enough " to tell my bro she should have left me a year ago  

I wish she had I'd be a year closer to healing

A pwBPD is filled with more pain than we'll ever know.

Before they were with us, during the r/s, and after.

Is it the same as ours? No. It's amplified, twisted, buried... .

Happy Sunday or whatever day it may be where your at Shattered. I am a week or so short of almost 2 months no contact and still all over the map and like anyone else here ask myself these type of things. Since at times I dont even really know what I'm feeling it's going to be tougher to know what is going on in someone else's head.

What I can tell you is that BPD's (at least my x) was about certain predictable patterns. A form of Controlled Chaos.

We did 4 recycles. She would drop me on my head would not reach out, would have the time of her life, her bed was likely never cold and I was very last thing that could possibly matter to her. Meanwhile, I would be rolling around in sheer pain.

I would seem to start the recovery process almost as soon as she dropped me. Something like 80 to 100 days would pass, I would be feeling so much better and then that is when she would start to reach out to me. I would get these emails or texts of almost sheer desperation asking me to please see her. As a Non, my heart would be touched, I would over react to my own empathy and reach out to comfort her. Not realizing I was in FOG, fear, obligation and guilt, I would find her hooking me back in. Of course, after a while I was no longer her shiny toy and she would go back to treating me like trash.

Not sure if I am responding to your question, but yeah... .they do hurt and very likely with greater intensity possibly? But because they are so wrapped up in so many other emotions, denial of some emotions or blocking them out, it seems at some point those emotions they put on hold or blocked out have to eventually be dealt with. Again, all this is based on my personal experience. The cautionary tale here is that when they do go through this period, and no one will know, not even them... .YOU as the non are the susceptible to getting hooked again. I fell for it 3 times?

myself,

Ding... .ding! this is perfect and you summed up in very words what took me several paragraphs and I was still not as clear... .wow.

Painful words Dobie.  I can hear it in you.  I can feel it along with my own pain in the matter. Thanks for sharing.

Put me on the list of so-called "haters" Mike-x.  Okay, I'm not a hater, but when we want them to feel LOUSY or as bad as we do, we aren't exactly praying for them.  I agree that its the grieving. Lord God knows I grieve a lot.  The tears aren't stopping anytime soon either.  Maybe it's ironic because how they go from Love to Hate... .we go from Love to Hoping they suffer!  Same thing almost... .well we aren't BPD, but maybe we could be as bad because look who we've learned from!  We've each had our own individual BPD tutors!  Did you ever think of it that way?

Amen Shatterd.  I can write 1000+1 things right now... .but I won't be able to say it any better than you did.  Amen again.

I agree to a certain degree that the longer we stayed in that BPD relationship the more we develop some kind of anger , just like them , they pass it into us none due the constant hammering on our emotional level , I sometimes feel how they can easily trigger us even if we stay NC , it only takes one text and the cycle continues  ... .

I found the best way is to be angry when we feel like it sad , frustrated etc , with time and healing we will be fine , it's the hardest thing to get out from A relationship with an BPD . we will change for the better with time but they will never know what a normal day is all about !

Good luck to all of us on the way the valley the mountain of recovery , it's not that easy but it can be done .

AMEN!  Not only can it be done... .WE WILL DO IT!  Removing the focus of the exBPD is pretty hard.  I know mine wasn't a model or anything, but she was Gods gift to me and that meant she was everything!  Looks score very low with me in terms of someone that I can love, maybe that is part of my problem, I can give anyone a shot at being that special person in my life.   But my ex was different... .she was BPD and she not only made it out to be that she was God's gift, she came gift wrapped, special delivery and smelling like roses!  So can anyone match up after this?

I understand why you would want to know this. It is understandable to want to know if your pwBPD is suffering the same amount you are.  I think knowing this somewhat reassures us that our pwBPD cares/cared about us.  


This is absolutely true.  Imagine the feeling of sadness and multiply it by 10,000, and that is what feels like to a pwBPD.

I do not know what it feels like to have BPD, but my pwBPD has told me what it feels like. He says it is a daily hell.

I understand the intensity of feeling certain emotions, since I do suffer from DPD. When I feel anxious, it can literally be so intense at times,  that I am barely able to function.  Prior to my own treatment, no one knew that I was suffering so much. I engaged in my own maladaptive coping mechanisms to assuage my anxiety.

It is similar to pwBPD. They may seem that everything is fantastic and great on the outside, but on the inside they are hurting. As much as pwBPD can show their emotions externally, they can repress and internalize them as well.  

From my own recovery, I have learned suppression, avoidance, and maladaptive coping techniques may work in the short term, but it is better to work through your feelings/emotions. As a non disordered person Dobie, you are struggling with your feelings/emotions in the short term, but overall you are better in the long-run. Suppression, avoidance, withdraw, isolation, dissociation, impulsive behaviors, splitting, etc. are just temporary solutions to a life long problem.

Dobie, this speaks to my experience as well:

"Ultimately these are woman with no real sense of self introspection and an inability to accept responsibility for their own sadness so if she is not hurting over you believe me she is hurting over something"


My ex was very unhappy and brooding about something a lot of the time. She didn't always blame it on external circumstances, but as the relationship deteriorated, she appeared to be holding me responsible for her stalled state in life. She became increasingly resentful towards me and talked about me as if I was the Ball and Chain that was holding her back in life.

An area of extreme difference and incompatibility in our relationship was in how much we introspected and self-reflected. I have always been involved in some kind of introspective psychological or spiritual work, so I would say that I am more inclined that way than most people. My ex was the opposite, a person of emotion and action, not at all attracted to thinking about herself in a self-reflective way (as opposed to self-punitive, self-admiring, self-pitying and so on--she loved that sort of thing). It was difficult for me to understand why my partner wouldn't want to delve into the dynamics of our relationship, as that would have really interested me.

Another big difference was the way we approached personal problems in general. I am a proactive problem solver when presented with relationship conflicts. I want to really get in there and tackle the problems and get them fixed. My ex is the opposite, especially when the problems are interpersonal. She likes to avoid thinking about her conflicts with other people and within herself. She takes "passive, avoidant solutions." (Marsha Linehan says this is typical of pwBPD). It drove me crazy when I felt so scared about what was happening to our relationship, and she would spend so little time thinking about it. It made me feel devalued, but I don't think that was my partner's intent. I think she has a very limited set of options for resolving conflict with people.

Thank you evrybody for shareing, i can think, she is to some point, hurting also, how much well idk. She had opend up to me once before about this hurt inside, the part about another guy, so i know its there. Trying to understand this, maybe she feels she cant be normal with me  to many triggers perhaps, its easyer to move on then to fix maybe. The experiances uve shared here are all spot on with mine, wow she is all over the place.

I have no way to confirm that the girl I was dating was a borderline, but I went through a similar progression. I saw her about a week after the break up and she seemed completely unaffected. There wasn't a trace of guilt, confusion, anger, sadness or any of the emotions I was struggling with. She was friendly with everyone; she even tried to flirt with me. I had been reverted to guy friend status. It was like we had never been together in the first place.

I saw her twice more later in the week and things got even weirder. Her new boyfriend dropped her off the first time. She wouldn't make eye contact when we were in the same room, and we didn't interact except to exchange an awkward greeting. She was avoiding me like I had committed some serious faux pas. The next day she was friendly again, even flirtatious. I haven't heard from her since.

I'm not sure how much of this was normal, since I had never dated anyone from my social circle before. But I remember thinking, "We had sex a week ago. How can she be acting like this?" So frustrating.

bensonshays     i find my self wondering the same ya we were together a week b4 the new duesh  yuck. i have kids with mine and ya one time b4 the same thing happend, he was smarter than me however she cheated on him with me and im sure others and he was done.  why did i take her back 3 times b4 , my own issues im sure are to blame.

I'm sorry your feeling the same DL this sucks it really does

I think my x was grieving in the r/s as well there was a time we had an argument about 8 months back and she was crying it was a silly petty row and she kept getting knives to try and cut her wrists and taking pills and trying to swallow them I was shocked and scared and kept taking them off her as she screamed "let me go just let me go"

When she left and drove away on my birthday she said she felt a tremendous relief

When we broke up her refusal to see me because she knew she would be back

Her acting out and anger like she is happy to prove she is all grown up and doesent need me

Her looking for reasons to hate me and split me black

The push pull the depression her constant "why am I not happy" my hope she would be when I got the promotion the house the wedding

She is busy with her new distractions now so I'm sure she never feels sad or misses me but the hole is there she is just looking for and filling with different things

We sound like twins lol my x was diifrent from your though she was scanning the r/s horizon all the time but internally never really telling me straight out or attempting to sit down and work out the issues

There were clues here and there but I guess I didn't want to listen "do we make each other happy" etc


But again push/pull she was never a happy joyous soul like my gf before her so it was hard to see she felt me to be the problem

When my bro saw her and she said she couldn't see me because I would convince her to come back my bro said that's the point in a r/s you work things out you try and resolve things she just looked stumped and perplexed

For her its either your the most amazing , special , wonderful blah blah blah or your not there is no grey areas there is no self introspection or reason to think OK I'm not happy is that all dobies fault ? Could it be there's some things about the r/s that I'm not happy with that we need to work out ?

No its all me or "we are not meant to be "

She even told people "we just drifted apart " "and things just didn't work out "

No none not a jot of acountabilty or skill set to communicate and make things work easier to just quit and run

I have wondered the same thing about mine. I wish that I had some way of determining specifically bow she was coping as it would confirm that she took the r/s as seriously as I did and the loss of it was as painful to her as it was to me - for some reason, that would help me. It sure didn't feel like this was the case when she blocked me for contact, threatened legal action when I circumvented her block right after the b/u and called the police on my on xmas eve inferring that I was stalking her.

But I did learn that she had a huge weight gain (easily 40 lbs) over the first 3 months since the b/e which tells me a lot about how she is handling things. Mine does not appear to be taking it well but I suspect, like everything else BPD, there is a rainbow of variations regarding their behavior and reactions.

Mine told me: You won't survive a day in my head.

i have herd all these nasty comments also. not sure when she means it or mayb she figured shes bettr off untill it falls apart. i only noticed her contiplateing this time weather to run or not and when push came to pull she was forced to decide. maybe was a dick to her this time, but i cant live my life like that anymore. i think i told her tp grow up and what she was doing was childish, after all we have ben threw and the kids  how could she be doing this again. i held her accountable this time, mistake or not our outcome would have ben the same. history has told me this with her and i. no matter what i do or what i try this always happens

To me, that seems like a confirmation of the opposite.

i would agree with my experiance, however knowing what we know now about BPD, if we play captain save a ho again, do you honestly think it would be better wile the wounds are still fresh?

Dagwood they do hurt.  But not for us and because of us.  They hurt for something thatvis buried deep in there past.  something they will never come to retms with.  whatever it is.  We are pawns in there game.  they may have some regret but they wont admit it.  It is not an easy thing for us to accept.

Have you all had a chance to read this:

https://bpdfamily.com/content/my-definition-love-i-have-borderline-personality-disorder (https://bpdfamily.com/content/my-definition-love-i-have-borderline-personality-disorder)

this is a good question... .hard to answer but what I do think is that your not forgotten.  Weather she misses you or she hates you with everything inside her. LOL.  So after 30 days no contact and blocking a ton of people to avoid her I was tagged in a post from a girl who wanted to meet me at a pub... .long story short my ex and her sister saw the post( friends of friends ) and started facebooking and txting this women teeling her im an abuser and to stay away from me. 

I don't think that calling ourselves 'pawns in their game' is a very productive nor healthy way to think about the situations that we got ourselves into. We must examine ourselves more thoroughly, because statements like that completely negate the fact that we did have power then, and we have it now.

To a degree, yes, we were used. But we also certainly accepted behaviors that were unacceptable, and in that way our BPDex's were pawns in our own game in which the end goal was finding approval and external sources of love to fill voids deep within ourselves.

It is ok if they can't admit their regret. That isn't our focus, or at least it shouldn't be. The best we can do is concentrate on forgiving ourselves, and then eventually them. I think that once we reach both types of acceptance on those fronts, we're pretty solid. Takes a ton of time though, and a hell of a lot of thinking.

I fully agree and my personal experience fully supports this affirmation.

They feel pain at unimaginable levels, mostly because of their past experiences and huge failures (caused by their illness... .) characterizing their life.

Perhaps they may tend to hide the pain, because explaining it to others may be too difficult for them or it would force them to say things they may judge too uncomfortable for their partners... .but it's absolutely there. Pure and raw pain.

And it keeps accumulating due to the continuous failures provoked by their illness.

Just to give an example: often my exuBPDgf did binge-drinking, and she told me she did this in order to NOT think... .not think to the demons (i.e., extremely painful, bad thoughts) inside her head (these are her own words). And, when I tried to understand which kind of thoughts she had in her mind, she gave some details, but then she stopped because she started to feel very uncomfortable (note: at that time i was not aware of her BPD).

Another example, in the same line: often she woke up during the night, for the same reasons, so she was incapable of getting again into bed.

I think this is a truly hellish life, and a punishment in itself.

No. I dont believe she is. Im probably not even a thought unless she sees me at my sons game.

My ex and I told me that she had been the one to leave her previous partners, 3 or 4 in total. The pattern was the same as with me, and she ended up "feeling nothing" for any of them. She said when she left them they sobbed and she would hold them in her arms, feeling totally disconnected from their pain, and kind of puzzled by it. She said she has never missed any of them, or regretted leaving them.

I spoke to her yesterday and she did cry with me through the conversation, but the source of her pain is to her, not the same as mine. She cried because I told her I would have to end all contact soon, so that I can get over her. I have been much more to her than a lover, I have been something more like her life support system. No matter how unhealthy that was for both of us, it is a reality. It shows again how impulsive, irrational and self-sabotaging pwBPD are---that she would jettison her lover so abruptly without thinking about what she would do when the life support was unplugged. I fear for her, as she is very fragile. In the past I would have worked hard to try to reconnect with her, to make a relationship for myself out of a rescue effort for her. I have been helped by the advice given in the article on this site, about Breaking Up When Your Partner has BPD. I do indeed fantasize about giving in to her need for me to continue in her life, as the occasional emotional refueling center, the emergency life support system. Thanks to this site, I can see that this would be the wrong choice for me. I have to take care of myself now. Chances are, my ex will get through this breakup as "easily" as she did the others, numb, detached and dissociated, and will replace me in weeks. I wouldn't be surprised if she has already done so. That is part of the pattern, and she hasn't missed any of the steps this time around.

The differences seem to come up often on the boards. I am wondering if the differences have to do with conscious vs unconscious influences and the defense mechanisms that the former SOs have available?

Valet

I agree with some of what you are saying, but you may be sending the wrong message to people here.  To me it reminds me of someone telling a rape victim they are partly to blame for there rape because they dressed like they wanted.  Most nons do need to learn to set healthy boundaries but that comes later I am four years out of my BPD marriage,  I know a few things now, but when this first happened I needed to understand this was not my fault.  Yes I could have made better choices and I need to learn to do that but that comes later.  BPD people are emotional rapist they are evil people who take advantage of good folks.  And if you have no idea what BPD is you are ripe for there picking if they can find you.  

I certainly understand the sentiment of feeling like a pawn in a game, and I did feel that way at times. Unfortunately, I don't think that it is a "game" that people with BPD are playing. They are at the mercy of their disorder. I would imagine that many living with BPD would say that they are "pawns in the game". My uGF used to accuse me of being the manipulator. My sense of things was that that was her "true" reality. All of the false accusations and her reactions were responses to what she saw as "reality".


I think that the diagnostic symptoms give some insight into the "reality" distortions that someone living with BPD might experience:

1.    frantic efforts to avoid real or imagined abandonment. the sense of abandonment is "real" to the pwBPD; regardless of how the SO feels about the pwBPD, what the SO says and does, etc.

2.    a pattern of unstable and intense interpersonal relationships characterized by alternating between extremes of idealization and devaluation. again, the "reality" to the pwBPD is that the SO is "white", perfect and can do no wrong, and then that reality is changed to the SO being "black"

3.    identity disturbance: markedly and persistently unstable self-image or sense of self. again, the non probably sees the pwBPD as has having a stable self-image, something the non likes about the pwBPD; however, the "reality" to the pwBPD is that they don't have a sense of self; they don't know "who" they are; regardless of whether there actions show otherwise; if they don't have insight about the sense of self, then the "reality" might be that "something is missing"

4.    impulsivity in at least two areas that are potentially self-damaging (e.g., spending, sex, substance abuse, reckless driving, binge eating). the pwBPD might not view their actions as impulsive, lacking insight or justifying via defense mechanisms; but their "reality" is different from the reality of others viewing these behaviors

5.    recurrent suicidal behavior, gestures, or threats, or self-mutilating behavior the "reality" is that this will "fix" things

6.    affective instability due to a marked reactivity of mood (e.g., intense episodic dysphoria, irritability, or anxiety usually lasting a few hours and only rarely more than a few days). the altered "reality" can affect mood (e.g., feeling like an SO is cheating, unloving, etc. can lead to anxiety and depression); also defense mechanisms can come into play here to displace the cause of anxiety, depression, etc. from the self to some external source (e.g., I feel depressed and it must be due to something my SO has done to me) in order to avoid opening the wounds and dealing the the core issue of low self-esteem

7.    chronic feelings of emptiness similar to identity disturbance, regardless of what the pwBPD is showing outwardly (e.g., friendliness, life of the party, sexual promiscuity, etc.), their "reality" inside is that something is missing and/or they are empty; additionally similar to mood reactivity, defense mechanisms altering "reality" may come into play to displace the source of this emptiness

8.    inappropriate, intense anger or difficulty controlling anger (e.g., frequent displays of temper, constant anger, recurrent physical fights) in the "reality" of the pwBPD, the reason for the anger is often not inappropriate, and pwBPD might not even see the anger as over-the-top (at least not in the moment) depending on what they were exposed to and/or what they believe they are reaction to

9.    transient, stress-related paranoid ideation or severe dissociative symptoms clearly issues with an altered "reality"; but the fear can be very "real" to the pwBPD

Can you please clarify the term "emotional rapist"? I have never heard it before, and I am not following the analogy.

It just kind of popped into my head.  But rape is not a sexual act its a violent act.  The emotional violence they do to us is maybe similar.  I am not trying to make light of rape victims but I have heard people say if she would not have been drunk or if she would not have dressed like a s**t this would not have happened.  People really say that and it bothers me.  When anyone says that what a BPD did to us was our fault it is just as cruel.   

Thank you evryone for helping me threw this,   to update and answer my own topic here,  YES she is hurting to, about alot things of course.  But my BPDex is hurting over us aswell tho she remains some what strong, she seems to be realizing hope mayb lost with us finally. I got some form of something a few mins ago about how her crazzyness drove me away and hurt our kids   so i askd her   are you appoligizeng? Haha hmm the faint no i got back, made me chuckle, she has already given up on theopy, 3weeks in. I was sorry to here that  i was hopeing she would do it this time. So anyways blah blah the kids this the kids that.We said our goodbeys and she did leave the door open   ya nasty ol lady of mine,, daddy is fine with oucha  :'(   :'(        

Hey now, I'm not saying that their behaviors are excusable, or that we were the primary provocation for them, only that we did play our part by being abused and staying. This is a lesson to move forward with, in hindsight. What I said may be taken as victim blaming, and I agree that I didn't choose the proper wording for my opinion.

What I want to make clear now though, is that I am not blaming anyone here. I feel that blame comes from anger and insecurities that we have yet to fully understand and realize. I'm just not in support of being angry at someone for experiencing irrational emotions that they can't control, and I think statements like 'emotional rapist they are evil people who take advantage of good folks' or 'we are pawns in their game' that make BPDs into some weird hyper-rationalized emotional predator will only hold people that think them and believe in them back from true acceptance of who are exBPDs are as people—it ultimately will make our exs unable to be forgiven, which is one of the most unjust and unfair things we can do as good human beings. Everyone should be capable of being forgiven.

They don't want their relationships to end. They just have flawed mechanisms for being in them. We take that knowledge and assess the situation from there.

I love your comment above about over-reacting to your own empathy.  I think there may be a really healing poem in there somewhere.  Thanks for sharing!

Great comment valet, probably one of the wisest i've read in the forum so far.

Valet

i think your last comment was very good lets call a truce

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