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My partner didn't push me to blow up, however he pushed me to do something else, to worry.

We generally check out at around 8pm pst, generally I go out for a walk.

Last night my partner was too quick to end the phone call, even was going to end it prematurely and I said "wait I'm not back yet" then when I got back he was very quick to get off the phone so I like an idiot called him back and said "that didn't feel right" instead of letting it go and I ended up finding out that there was an unexpected delay in filing his divorce.

He tells me in his state in order to file an uncontested divorce you have to provide your spouse's financial info, and his spouse's attorney is not cooperating with his attorney, so now he is looking at moving out of the basement he is in and renting an apartment, further delaying his move.

Of course, he, in true form, didn't think to tell me any of this.

I challenge him and said when I filed my divorce all i had to do was serve my husband papers, I never heard of having to provide your spouse's financial info before you serve them papers.

He tried to take a time out for himself last night, saying maybe we shouldn't talk for a while, this was after he hung up on me. He hung up on me a total of 3x last night saying I deserved it because of how I talked to him.

We hadn't gotten in an argument in a long time.

We wouldn't have gotten in an argument if I had simply let it go and not poked it at it, and let him end the phone call abruptly, but not rudely.

He reminds me of my first husband who could never tell me bad news, and still doesn't.

I of course feel like a fool for picking it up.

I wish I wasn't so intuitive, this has always been my achilles heel in intimate relationships, I can pick up on negative feelings the other person isn't expressing and I'm worry about them.

I wish I could just let it go and let my partner have his negative feelings and not feel like I have to fix them.

I forgot to mention that when his wife revealed her identity to me back in 2012 he was relieved because that meant he didn't have to.

Now he's saying stuff like I knew him better in the first year of our relationship which in my opinion was just an extramarital affair and our real relationship hasn't even started yet.

I wish I had the audacity to tell him I'm good with not talking for awhile.

I know the only reason he can say that to me is because of his borderline tendencies and that people with BPD tend to hold the relationship hostage when they want to get something.

So it sounds as if a "dissolution" is not forthcoming (a 90 day timeline after the filing is made).  His alternative is to move out and file for separation - this starts the 1 year wait period before he can file for divorce.


Do you think this is relationship is falling apart?  The divorce realities are setting in (it doesn't start until 1 year after he moves out AND files a separation agreement), you believe "our real relationship hasn't even started yet", and he is saying "I knew him better in the first year of our relationship".

It easier to look at the small things - like how you handled the argument last night - the problems are really the big issues at play.

She moved out of their house in 2012 and it was sold. I'm talking about him moving out of the office basement  he is living in in his city and into an apartment in his city instead of mine because his divorce was delayed.

I dissolved my marriage, maybe that's why it was so easy for me.

It sounds like he might be right so I might owe him an apology?

Thank you for responding .

The one year clock starts when the separation agreement is filed - right?

At this point, one of two situations likely exists... .

~ he has mounted no effort to get divorced (and he can't hid it anymore with you)

~ he tried to do a dissolution, but she is not agreeing to his terms and he is not willing to meet her terms, and is thinking its better to go the divorce route (which has a 1 year wait period before starting) which means an extended period of the relationship you currently have (which he doesn't like).

Do you owe him an apology? Sure. But, recognize that his frustration is not in what you said - its in the situation.

Skip, it is the 2nd, and I did apologize. So I need help in not picking up my partner's frustrations even when he's not voicing them. I need to know how to turn my intuition off. Also how can I protect myself from him taking out his frustrations on me?

I also need help defining a new boundary for myself regarding hanging up. I tried to talk to him today about financial and emotional responsibility in our relationship and he hung up on me. Previously I was ok with that, now I'm not.

I need to know how to turn my intuition off. Also how can I protect myself from him taking out his frustrations on me?

This ones pretty simple to me... .it's impossible to turn off intuition. What you can do is deny your own intuition and then ignore all his lies and dishonesty and he'll be less likely to become frustrated with you not believing his bs.

Of course that's a very unhealthy thing to do.

Having read all your posts Unicorn this relationship is very circular with what appears no resolution. Please don't allow his reality to become yours 

With regards to hanging up the telephone please see one of my previous posts on the staying board which was about the exact same thing. I got some good advice :)

I'm saying my intuition about his bad feelings, they are none of my business and I don't need to be picking them up.

I agree this whole relationship is circular, in a way, but in another way, it's not.

I do believe he is trying to make progress towards divorce however I should've never gotten into relationship with a married man in the first place and if he had told me the truth 4 years ago when I asked him if he was, I wouldn't be in this position.

The third thing I need help with is how do I make his phrase "I'm good with not talking for awhile " my own? While I don't have BPD traits this one seems like a good one to adopt to be able survive a relationship with a person with BPD traits.

Thanks for responding Lou!

Ok I was planning on reading your posts when I got home to familiarize myself with your story.

Technically I am a stayer but because my partner is married I don't feel good about being a stayer which is why I'm hanging out on the undecided board hoping he will file before I've reached the end of my rope.

I recognize at this point the delay on his divorce is not his fault however he should've never lied to me about being married in the first place. That was entirely his fault and his choice although his wife could've told me sooner Instead of letting me twist in the wind for 4 months while she watched me have a emotional affair with her husband. If that was me I would've confronted my husbands affair partner as soon as she appeared, however his wife was good with and encouraged him to be friends with me, a divorced mother 16 years his junior. She was even ok with him financially helping me raise my daughter. It was very twisted. I know this because she told me this.

It sounds like you are saying that you wished you had given him space:


What are some strategies that have worked for you in the past to ease the urge to contact him and "fix" things?

Sunfl0wer this is new behavior on my part. I'm trying to change my behavior. I'm trying to let him end the phone call when he wants to, to let him say he's good without talking for awhile without reacting.

I started reading I don't have to make everything all better to help me with my daughter but it looks like it's going to help me with my partner too.

I read an article today about how to help someone who was depressed and it includes letting them end the phone call sooner.

I know my partner is depressed and That really pushes my buttons, I want to fix it, make it all better, and I can't.

I recall this topic coming up in the past.  I mentioned the term 'urge surfing.' I recall you being familiar with that.  I think some other strategies may also have been brought up but I do not actually recall.

What helps you resist the urge to 'fix?'

Starting with and reinforcing what has worked in the past, may be a good place to begin focus.  I know you do not always give in to these feelings, so just wondering if you want to explore what has worked and what will help you cope in the future.

Sunfl0wer I kid you not, I've never applied urge surfing to my relationship.

I've never attempted to do this in the past.

This is all new behavior to me.

Although I've known the DBT theory for years, I haven't applied that particular tool to my relationship yet.

A good strategy in regards to him hanging up.

When a pwBPD stops talking to you or goes into ST.  They don't want to talk to you, for whatever reason.

Please believe them.

They don't have the emotional skills to properly ask for space.  People rarely react well to "being crowded", especially when they are actively taking steps to not be crowded.

How does this sound and feel to you?

FF

He called me back and hung up and called me and hung up half a dozen times. I'm asking how do I set a limit with him after the first hang up? I did not call him back. I tried to ft him and deal with the problem but he refused my calls. Finally he called me and told me the truth.

What I am asking is what can I do different the next day he hangs up on me so he doesn't think it's ok to hang Up and call me back 9x? I counted.

Once someone hangs up on you - its probably best to turn off the phone for the night.

He hung up on me at 4:54pm and my daughter wasn't home. Turning off my phone was not an option. Do not disturb mode was. I'll do that next time. That'll piss him off but he hung up on me, not vice versa. He hung up on me 3x last night too. He said it was my fault, I deserved it, or caused it.

Also do I tell him I'm doing this? Like next time you hang up on me I'm putting my phone on do not disturb mode?

You don't deserve it. He had a some sort of fit and spilled it on you.

He can whatever he wants and projects till the sun sets. His perspective is based on his feelings and not on reality.

It's painful stuff and I am sorry you are getting so much of it directed at you.  

Figuring out what your plan is for handling it so the next time it happens is probably going to be something you can "go to" rather than getting that shock and confusion and reacting rather than giving a response that is going to be productive for you.

So he calls, hangs up, and your ideal action is... ?

Put my phone in do not disturb mode. He hung up on me 12x in less then 24 hours. I know why he was doing it and it had nothing to do with me. Do I tell him I'm putting my phone in do not disturb mode?

It's a boundary issue. I'm not sure how to tell him, without it sounding like an ultimatum.

Maybe tell him "I don't answer the telephone again for the day when someone hangs up on me and then keeps calling me."

Someone else may be able to tweak that a little.

I might frame it in a constructive way... .we both can get emotional an hang up the phone - once one of us hangs up on the other, lets just give each other space for the rest of the day to recover and get in a better frame of mind.

Ok skip that works I'll copy and paste it into a note . Thank you. I expect an extinction burst when I do that .

I'm sorry, but I don't understand this whole thing.  He was going for a dissolution of the marriage, instead of a divorce.  :)issolution from what I know is that both agree, have been separated for a year, and all division of assets, etc... .has been agreed on.

Now for a divorce you can also use the one year separation thing, and it goes by the date that you were living separately.  Their house was sold in 2012.  If they weren't living together, this is really easy to prove.

I think I read that he was trying to hide some assets by filing for bankruptcy.  I know, whole other issue.  Perhaps this is why his wife is not going along with the dissolution.  I know I wouldn't if I knew my soon to be ex was hiding things.  

Now, he needs to get an apt and move out of the basement, even though he had been living there for at least close to 3 years, if not more.  So, why an apt now?  Perhaps for a one year lease, so he can put you off more and more?

To get a divorce, you do not need 2 cooperative people, if that was the case, you can cut the divorce rate by at least 50 % if not more.  

So now, he is getting mad at you and hanging up on you.  That is a manipulative move to take the pressure off of him.  He just gave you the blame.

What to do when he hangs up on you to have boundaries.  My suggestion would be, you hang up on me I will not answer any of your phone calls for at least 24 hrs, next time, it would go to 48 hrs.  (If you want to tell him this is how you will be dealing with things from now on then do that).  :)on't allow that to be open for negotiations.    

No he was not seeking a dissolution, no he was not living in the basement of an office building for 3 years. I don't blame him for wanting to hide his assets. His wife said she was going to nickel and dime for the sole purpose of prolonging the divorce. I appreciate your suggestion on the hanging up thing. I am going to handle things differently next time he hangs up on me. I will put my phone in do not disturb mode for the rest of the day to give us both some space.

No. Why? Because that is an attempt to change him. You can't, and you shouldn't. You change yourself. You decide to ignore him, leave him, whatever, for YOUR sake. Not to modify his behavior. That is abuse.

Lonely child, I will put my phone in do not disturb mode for the rest of the day the next time he hangs up on me.

I think it is fair to tell him what I am doing so he isn't left wondering.

Usually when he hangs up on me he calls me back .

We hadn't had that happen for a long time and the reason it happened is because something unexpected happened to him so it was all about him however I was reacting to it.

I was ready to  leave him yesterday but we made it through and we're still together today. I'm hanging in there as long as I can.

A quick comment having nothing to do with the hang up/call back question.

I'd urge everyone to refrain from general speculation about the legal framework for divorce or dissolution in Unicorn's state. Divorce law varies widely from state to state. For example in my state there is no waiting period, no requirement of living separately for a period of time, yada yada. The last thing Unicorn needs is to make assumptions based on inapplicable legal analysis.

Thank you patient and clear, my partner does not live in my state. If it bothers me I could post on the legal board. My partner is going to attempt to talk to his wife on Saturday about what's going on so I'm going to wait and see. She drinks heavily on Friday nights after work so she might be hung over on Saturday so I may suggest he talk to her on Sunday.

I should also add that the renaming of this board was very helpful to me: to think about making a commitment to improving my relationship. I am very unhappy my partner is still married however when reframed as "not ready to leave, not committed to improving the relationship", it is clear to me that I need to find a way to commit myself to improving the relationship. I had a big problem with my partner on Monday that was separate from the delay in his divorce, and it has to do with his inability to communicate bad news to me. If I'm able to find it within myself to start thinking like someone on the staying board then I will post about it over there.

This struck me... .


Can you imagine feeling safe saying that?

What are you afraid of?

I'm not afraid. In order to feel safe my own neurotransmitters need to be in balance. I'm having problems with sleep. I will send you a private message.

I was more saying that I wish I had the balls to say to my partner I'm good with not talking to to you for a while.

Let me share a little anecdote.

This morning my daughter was being snarky to my partner about being late for school and he told her "right back atcha". Her response? She spilled the beans. If that had been me I would've hung up on him. Its my wiring. I hate being told "right back at you sister", that really pisses me off. Today my partner and I can laugh about that. Its funny, his wife told me that same thing one time when we got in a fight, so I don't know who taught who that phrase. Did he teach his wife that phrase or did she teach him that phrase? His wife's a narcissistic alcoholic and he's borderline, I don't know which is worse.

Perhaps we talked across each other a bit on this exchange... .to me, "not having the balls to X" and "being afraid to X" are pretty much the same thing.

And that is what I was asking you about... .imagine being the person who WOULD say that.

Can you speak more to what is holding you back from saying exactly that?

Oh I'm not afraid, I don't want to get in a fight because when I fight I'm nasty. My partner didn't really mean it. What I was saying is I wish I had the immaturity he did but I don't. I think what I am saying is I am tired of being the emotional leader. I am burnt out on always being the one who has to rise above it all. Sometimes I want to take my gloves off. I mean look at the title of this thread, I picked it up, that meant the gauntlet.

Some guy tried to pick a fight with me after a meeting this week and today I asked the other guys about it and it turned out I did nothing wrong, this other guy was just being contrary. I don't do well with that. My father was a narcissist so when a narcissist rears his ugly head I don't do well.

Yeah, being the leader is exhausting.

And when you are ready for more (likely exhausting) personal work, there is trying to stand up for yourself, without turning it into a fight. Given how your partner reacts, I'm sure that will be exhausting.

I'm ready now. What would that look like?