He claims the divorce laws changed while he was filing (Ohio)

[unicorn2014]

 

Today I informed my partner that I found out that he had to be separated for one year before he could file for divorce. He claimed the divorce laws changed and that wasn't the case when he first filed. I started researching legal separation, divorce and dissolution in his state. What I did see is that there was a no faults grounds for divorce which was

How do I file for a divorce?

A husband or wife may file a complaint for divorce in the domestic relations division of the local common pleas court or, if there is no domestic relations division, in the general division of the common pleas court.  The complaint must allege, and the plaintiff (party filing the divorce complaint) must later prove, one or more of the following legal grounds for divorce: incompatibility of the husband and wife, if alleged by one spouse in the divorce complaint and not denied by the other spouse (another type of no-fault divorce)

and based on what he told me I am sure his wife would have denied this.

I don't have any doubt he is filing now, as it has been over 3 years since they lived together so this would apply

the parties have for one year, without interruption, lived separate and apart without cohabitation (no-fault divorce grounds)

My question is does what he is saying sound true to you or false? The part about the divorce laws changing since 2012.

[Herodias]

What is he saying changed? I really doubt things changed in that little amount of time... .I am finding laws have not changed in many, many years! Mine lies about just about anything. Not sure if this is the case for yours. I am wondering how he is going to tell his gf that we can not get divorced for 3 more months due to our being "together" during our separation... You do need to be apart 1 whole year with out even 1 night together!  I think he is actually telling her that I am trying to work things out with him or something! It's exhausting to try and figure out why they say what they do, but usually it is to keep us confused and duped. Even if you find out the law didn't change, then what? Then you will be in an argument that you won't be able to win... .They have a different reality.

[unicorn2014]

What is he saying changed? I really doubt things changed in that little amount of time... .I am finding laws have not changed in many, many years! Mine lies about just about anything. Not sure if this is the case for yours. I am wondering how he is going to tell his gf that we can not get divorced for 3 more months due to our being "together" during our separation... You do need to be apart 1 whole year with out even 1 night together!  I think he is actually telling her that I am trying to work things out with him or something! It's exhausting to try and figure out why they say what they do, but usually it is to keep us confused and duped. Even if you find out the law didn't change, then what? Then you will be in an argument that you won't be able to win... .They have a different reality.

I don't know mine as well as you know yours, I'm getting to know mine better the more I learn from BPD family.

I don't think I'm trying to figure out why he said it, I'm trying to figure out whether its true its not because if its not then that means he is still deceiving me. At this point I think his deception is more of a defense mechanism then anything else, like something a teenager would do when confronted with bad behavior. I'm not trying to be his parent, when I brought it to his attention I didn't say he had lied to me I said I found out that the divorce laws in his state require a 12 month separation period before filing for divorce.

[Skip]

What makes you sure he is proceeding with a divorce now? Have you seen a filing?

No one can really comment on the law changing without know the state - and that is not really identifying in any way. But with the state, you will be able to talk to members that have actual experience in those courts.

[unicorn2014]

What makes you sure he is proceeding with a divorce now? Have you seen a filing?

No one can really comment on the law changing without know the state - and that is not really identifying in any way. But with the state, you will be able to talk to members that have actual experience in those courts.

Ok, I have not seen a filing yet, as he is waiting for his wife and her attorney to come forward with their half however if she does not by the end of the week he is filing the whole thing.

He lives in Ohio.

[Skip]

he is waiting for his wife and her attorney to come forward with their half however if she does not by the end of the week he is filing the whole thing.

I don't understand this. In any divorce lawsuit, one party files. They do not need the "information" from the other party.  Often the filing is for that very reason - to start/force the information exchange.

Is it possibly a dissolution of marriage?

A dissolution of marriage is an action where the parties mutually agree to terminate their marriage. Neither party has to prove grounds to end a marriage by dissolution. A dissolution petition is jointly filed after the husband and wife have signed a separation agreement regarding all property, spousal support and any child-related issues. After filing the petition, the parties must wait at least 30 days before the court will hear their case, which must be heard within 90 days of filing. At the hearing, the court will review the separation agreement, ask about the assets and liabilities and any parenting issues, and determine whether the parties understand and are satisfied with the settlement. If the court is satisfied that the parties agree and desire to end their marriage, the court will grant a dissolution and make the separation agreement a court order.

www.divorcesource.com/ds/ohio/faqs-about-ohio-dissolution-of-marriage-1442.shtml

[unicorn2014]

he is waiting for his wife and her attorney to come forward with their half however if she does not by the end of the week he is filing the whole thing.

I don't understand this. In any lawsuit, one party files. They do not need the "information" from the other party.  Often the filing is for that very reason - to start/force the information exchange.

According to him he already filed but his former lawyer did not file with the court. I think there has already been quite an information exchange. I don't know what the next step is after filing but perhaps that is the step they are at.

[Skip]

According to him he already filed but his former lawyer did not file with the court. I think there has already been quite an information exchange. I don't know what the next step is after filing but perhaps that is the step they are at.

This is nonsense talk. When a case is filed, the first thing they do is get a case number from the clerk - a need the case number to serve the other party.

[unicorn2014]

According to him he already filed but his former lawyer did not file with the court. I think there has already been quite an information exchange. I don't know what the next step is after filing but perhaps that is the step they are at.

This is nonsense talk. When a case is filed, the first thing they do is get a case number from the clerk - a need the case number to serve the other party.

Ok, then he hasn't filed yet, and he's going to file at the end of the month, which is what I said at the beginning of the month.

Its not my nonsense, its his nonsense, I'm just reporting what he told me.

He said that his lawyer told him that he should see if his wife and her attorney would pay for her half of the paperwork before he pays for it all.

[flourdust]

According to him he already filed but his former lawyer did not file with the court. I think there has already been quite an information exchange. I don't know what the next step is after filing but perhaps that is the step they are at.

This is nonsense talk. When a case is filed, the first thing they do is get a case number from the clerk - a need the case number to serve the other party.

Ok, then he hasn't filed yet, and he's going to file at the end of the month, which is what I said at the beginning of the month.

Its not my nonsense, its his nonsense, I'm just reporting what he told me.

He said that his lawyer told him that he should see if his wife and her attorney would pay for her half of the paperwork before he pays for it all.

The filing fee in Ohio is around $300. So he's claiming the delay is to save $150? 

[unicorn2014]

According to him he already filed but his former lawyer did not file with the court. I think there has already been quite an information exchange. I don't know what the next step is after filing but perhaps that is the step they are at.

This is nonsense talk. When a case is filed, the first thing they do is get a case number from the clerk - a need the case number to serve the other party.

Ok, then he hasn't filed yet, and he's going to file at the end of the month, which is what I said at the beginning of the month.

Its not my nonsense, its his nonsense, I'm just reporting what he told me.

He said that his lawyer told him that he should see if his wife and her attorney would pay for her half of the paperwork before he pays for it all.

The filing fee in Ohio is around $300. So he's claiming the delay is to save $150? 

Its not a delay yet, I was the one who said it was ok to see if she would cover her $150. He said if she did not come forward by the end of the week he would cover her $150 and I believe it.

I made this post because yesterday I told him that Ohio requires 12 months of separation before filing for divorce and he said that the divorce laws changed since he filed. He claims that was not the requirement when he filed in 2012. That's why I made this post.

[Skip]

The requirement for separation dates back to 1991.

www.codes.ohio.gov/orc/3105

Is he seeking a divorce or dissolution?  If a divorce, is it a collaborative or more traditional (legally different in Ohio))?

[ForeverDad]

I paid $250 so it makes sense the cost would have increased a bit in the past decade.  That's less than the cost of an hour with a lawyer.  I had all sorts of piddling court fees, but they were negligible compared to the legal fees.

I believe the point is that these days almost no one files 'for fault'.  I know I sure didn't wait a year, it was somewhere around 5 months, more or less, depending on last intimacy or separation date.  We immediately had a case number.  Within a couple months we had a temp order.  However, because of the custody issues she dragged out the case for nearly two years.  She could delay a final decree but not block it.

Someone's stringing someone else along, kept simmering on the back burner, sort of an escape clause or one-size-fits-all excuse.  If it's not her stringing him along, then he's stringing you along.  Possibly both, though if he's your only source of information you really won't know what she's thinking.

I really do think you're not getting a fair deal or the 'whole truth'.  You're giving him every benefit of the doubt when there are multiple reasons to doubt.  Most worrisome is that if you do ever get married to him, these sorts of issues won't be gone, they'll just get more complicated.  The past (and present) are the best indicators of the future.

[unicorn2014]

The requirement for separation dates back to 1991.

www.codes.ohio.gov/orc/3105

Is he seeking a divorce or dissolution?  If a divorce, is it a collaborative or more traditional (legally different in Ohio))?

Thank you Skip, I believe he is seeking a divorce. I will ask him if it is collaborative or traditional and get back to you.

[Skip]

The requirement for separation dates back to 1991.

www.codes.ohio.gov/orc/3105

Is he seeking a divorce or dissolution?  If a divorce, is it a collaborative or more traditional (legally different in Ohio))?

Thank you Skip, I believe he is seeking a divorce. I will ask him if it is collaborative or traditional and get back to you.

If that is the case, then there has to be a legal separation filed with the court and you should be able to see that record for the last 12 months.

[unicorn2014]

Someone's stringing someone else along, kept simmering on the back burner, sort of an escape clause or one-size-fits-all excuse.  If it's not her stringing him along, then he's stringing you along.  Possibly both, though if he's your only source of information you really won't know what she's thinking.

I think at this point it has to do with intellectual property rights, and another person is involved besides his wife.

I really do think you're not getting a fair deal or the 'whole truth'.  You're giving him every benefit of the doubt when there are multiple reasons to doubt.  Most worrisome is that if you do ever get married to him, these sorts of issues won't be gone, they'll just get more complicated.  The past (and present) are the best indicators of the future.

I'm not giving him the benefit of the doubt, I am not happy with him. I'm in no rush to marry him. I already told him that I think it would be better to wait until my d15 graduates from high school as I live in an expensive school district and I wouldn't want him to put all his capital into a house.

I think these issues are because of the fact he always had someone to delegate to, and when he dismantled his business and his marriage he was stuck managing everything on his own and he bit off more then he could from chew. I both have compassion for him and am very displeased about the situation.

I do believe he is now working earnestly on his divorce.

Looking at the link Skip provided, divorce laws in his state look very complicated. If he had been upfront about that with me from the beginning I wouldn't be feeling the way I do today. I think he opted for the easy way out and waited 3 years until he could file on grounds of physical separation, that way he wouldn't have to deal with his wife contesting the divorce he filed based on grounds of incompatibility. She was not going to let him go easy. I have talked to her on the phone a few times and it is amazing to me the things she allowed him to do while they were married. That was his complaint too, that she gave him too much freedom. I don't see it quite like that, if he behaved that way in my marriage, I would leave.

[unicorn2014]

The requirement for separation dates back to 1991.

www.codes.ohio.gov/orc/3105

Is he seeking a divorce or dissolution?  If a divorce, is it a collaborative or more traditional (legally different in Ohio))?

Thank you Skip, I believe he is seeking a divorce. I will ask him if it is collaborative or traditional and get back to you.

If that is the case, then there has to be a legal separation filed with the court and you should be able to see that record for the last 12 months.

There is no legal separation filed with the court, however I haven't looked at the court records since September so I will take another look. At any rate, I will bring this up with him next time he brings up the divorce with me. He told me right now he's working on intellectual property right issues.

[ForeverDad]

I recall that Jacob of 3800 years ago was engaged while working 7 years to get married.  That is not typical, at least these days.  A very long engagement measured in multiple years probably isn't healthy.  Of course, that's my opinion from experience and observation.  Yes, if an engagement is too short, then you risk not knowing the person well enough.  But my observation is that is is very hard to have a relationship or long term engagement from long distance, either the relationship proceeds or it becomes difficult.  Yes, I know that's a simplistic observation but ponder whether any of this fits your situation.

I recall telling others I've known over the years to take your time getting to really know the other person before getting engaged but once engaged then you need to proceed toward the next step, marriage.  Putting it on hold or delaying puts a lot of stress on the relationship.

My engagement was 6 months, marriage was nearly 6 months later.  I'm still comfortable with that 6 months from engaged to married.  However, looking back it would have been better if I would have taken more time before getting engaged, though I don't think there were any clear signs to nix proceeding with the relationship.  While I did get hints her family was dysfunctional, I didn't see problems with her, well, at that time.

[unicorn2014]

Forever dad wrote

I recall that Jacob of 3800 years ago was engaged while working 7 years to get married. That is not typical, at least these days. A very long engagement measured in multiple years probably isn't healthy. Of course, that's my opinion from experience and observation. Yes, if an engagement is too short, then you risk not knowing the person well enough. But my observation is that is is very hard to have a relationship or long term engagement from long distance, either the relationship proceeds or it becomes difficult. Yes, I know that's a simplistic observation but ponder whether any of this fits your situation.

it does and the ironic thing is initially my partner was against a long engagement too. I seem to remember him blaming me or attacking me for something along those lines early on in our relationship . I think he wanted to marry me right away and I was opposed to that idea however now it's a moot point as he is still married . He had the nerve to tell me the other day that according to his lawyer his marriage is just a legal contract at this point as if that's supposed to justify the situation .

Forever dad wrote

I recall telling others I've known over the years to take your time getting to really know the other person before getting engaged but once engaged then you need to proceed toward the next step, marriage. Putting it on hold or delaying puts a lot of stress on the relationship.

Considering the fact that relationship has been long distance for its whole duration , I now think it was totally inappropriate for me to accept a marriage proposal from him, but I didn't know any better. It looks like he used marriage proposal and engagement as a means to gain access to me and enter into a relationship with me.

[ForeverDad]

Engagements are promises or a form of ethical obligations but it does not lock you into a marriage.  Remember, if someone ends an engagement, the state has no say whatsoever in it.  Maybe they have a position on what happens to an engagement ring (some may say the woman keeps it, others that it may need to be returned) but nothing else.  Period.  But if you get married and/or have children together then at that point tons of law kicks in.  To unwind a marriage lawyers are needed and they have no compunction against sending huge bills.  (Old joke:  Why do lawyers charge so much?  Because they're worth it.)

For example, imagine... .You put an expensive item on layaway.  Maybe a giant 4K TV, maybe a furniture set, maybe something similar.  You make some payments and then rethink it all and decide it's not going to work.  You stress about what to do.  Do you follow the agreement terms or do you take the Cancellation option?  You haven't accepted delivery yet, so it all still belongs to the store.  After much angst and emotionally torn back and forth, you go back to the store and cancel the layaway.  You might even get some of the money back, it all depends on the agreement terms.  Then you walk out leaving the gloom behind and go whistling on your merry way.

So which is best?  End a problem engagement, walking away with some short term emotions but basically free of the what-ifs?  Or stick with it, get married and then ponder whether to suffer through it for years or do an expensive and emotionally devastating divorce?  That's up to you to decide.

[unicorn2014]

Engagements are promises or a form of ethical obligations but it does not lock you into a marriage.  Remember, if someone ends an engagement, the state has no say whatsoever in it.  Maybe they have a position on what happens to an engagement ring (some may say the woman keeps it, others that it may need to be returned) but nothing else.  Period.  But if you get married then at that point tons of law kicks in.

For example, imagine... .You put an expensive item on layaway.  Maybe a giant 4K TV, maybe a furniture set, maybe something similar.  You make some payments and then rethink it all and decide it's not going to work.  You stress about what to do.  Do you follow the agreement terms or do you take the Cancellation option?  You haven't accepted delivery yet, so it all still belongs to the store.  After much angst and emotionally torn back and forth, you go back to the store and cancel the layaway.  You might even get some of the money back, it all depends on the agreement terms.  Then you walk out leaving the gloom behind and go whistling on your merry way.

So which is best?  End a problem engagement and walk away? Or stick with it, get married and then ponder whether to suffer through it for years or do an expensive and emotionally devastating divorce?  That's up to you to decide.

Currently the engagement is on hold as he is still married. If and when he files for and gets divorced I will reconsider whether or not I want to be engaged to him. I am definitely not happy with him. All he needed to have done was tell me the truth. I also understand that his wife is a very difficult person and I sympathize with him on that however he should not have proposed to me or started a relationship with me while he was still married. That was not fair to me.

[Herodias]

"Currently the engagement is on hold as he is still married. If and when he files for and gets divorced I will reconsider whether or not I want to be engaged to him. I am definitely not happy with him. All he needed to have done was tell me the truth. I also understand that his wife is a very difficult person and I sympathize with him on that however he should not have proposed to me or started a relationship with me while he was still married. That was not fair to me."

You are smart to hold out and get to know him better. I do know that you don't know both sides of the story with the wife and what she lived with, so t's best not to let him triangulate with the notion that he was a victim of the marriage. It was not fair to you, you are right... .the problem is these people can not be alone and unfortunately if we are not careful, we are the ones that fall prey to their manipulations. We have all been through it. Just keep learning what you can and see what he does. I am sure with your encouragement he will do what he needs to do if he wants to move forward with you... .you may want to take advantage of the time to decide what it is that you want.

[unicorn2014]

"Currently the engagement is on hold as he is still married. If and when he files for and gets divorced I will reconsider whether or not I want to be engaged to him. I am definitely not happy with him. All he needed to have done was tell me the truth. I also understand that his wife is a very difficult person and I sympathize with him on that however he should not have proposed to me or started a relationship with me while he was still married. That was not fair to me."

You are smart to hold out and get to know him better. I do know that you don't know both sides of the story with the wife and what she lived with, so t's best not to let him triangulate with the notion that he was a victim of the marriage. It was not fair to you, you are right... .the problem is these people can not be alone and unfortunately if we are not careful, we are the ones that fall prey to their manipulations. We have all been through it. Just keep learning what you can and see what he does. I am sure with your encouragement he will do what he needs to do if he wants to move forward with you... .you may want to take advantage of the time to decide what it is that you want.

Thank you very much Herodias, I appreciate your post!

I have talked to his wife a number of times on the phone and exchanged a number of texts with her and she is nasty. She was very mean to me in the beginning of our relationship and blamed me for her husband's behavior. I won't talk about what he claims about her, I've had my own bad experiences with her. For example the way I "met" her is she took his iPad while he was sleeping and impersonated him and led me to believe I was having a conversation with him and then she revealed herself. I made her call me on the phone to verify her identity because I didn't believe she was for real. It was a horrible night. I didn't know of her existence before that night. She assumed I knew he was married and was willfully having a relationship with a married man. I had no idea and I had even asked him if he was married and he denied it so I believed him.

----

Fast forward to today, he told me he had a sexual dream about us last night so I cracked a joke that he should tell his unconscious mind we won't be having sex again until he is divorced. He didn't like that very much. Then I sent him the link to the divorce code in his state. I told him it was nonsense that he said the divorce laws changed since 2012, I said they hadn't changed since 1991. I told him it was his responsibility to know these things. He said it was his lawyer's responsibility. I said just like I am responsible for my teen you are responsible for your lawyer and if he makes a mistake thats a reflection on you. I told him he entered into a relationship with me under false pretenses. He had suggested perhaps just being friends was a good idea. I said I had not friend zoned him I said I was simply waiting for him to get a divorce. I looked his name up again today and still nothing.

He told me he was sad that I reacted the way I did to him sharing his dream and I told him perhaps I was not the best person to tell that to and I told him when you do a 4th step in AA you don't share your inventory with your significant other. I told him he owed me an amends, he needed to talk to someone else about his bad feeling. He didn't like that very much but I held my ground. I told him as an emotionally healthy person I didn't want to hear it. No amount of apologizing or asking for forgiveness was going to fix it, getting a divorce was the only thing that would fix it, and that's what I was waiting for.

I got to see boundary testing in action tonight. After I told him this there was dead silence and this time he ended by saying we had nothing else to talk about so I let him hang up. Then he texted me after saying he felt sad that I reacted the way I did to his dream. I didn't respond. Then he called me back and I said in the future if he said something to say after hanging up please call me back. He said ok, but then ended hanging up on me again and continuing to text me. I remembered from my other threads that I had established my boundary, so I was under no obligation to read those texts, so I deleted them. He's hitting pretty hard tonight but I'm standing my ground.

He is supposedly filing at the end of the week so I'm waiting to see if that happens.

[Herodias]

I hate to tell you this, but I did what the wife did once, because I was trying to figure out what my husband was up to. It turned out he had told the woman that she could move into my condo that we had moved out of! I did find out they had not had intercourse, but she was giving him oral sex at work! She was married too! I insisted they end things and we worked on our marriage. I am telling you this, because she may have done what she did to get information. See, they lie and tell us that the mistress is the one doing all of the pursuing... .He was so innocent! Not true- his co-workers told me he did all the pursuing! I still say, you don't know what he told her.  I have been there. Put yourself in the wife's position... .since that is where you are wanting to be. It's great you are setting boundaries... .He is acting like my husband did... .It sounds so familiar.  Make sure he knows you love him and are waiting on him to get the divorce. Keep learning, you will need to learn how to talk to him... .It is like dealing with a child. You must be nice, but have rules. If you do not stick with the rules, they will not believe you. They will test them. Don't say anything you don't intend to follow through on yourself. Good luck.

[unicorn2014]

I hate to tell you this, but I did what the wife did once, because I was trying to figure out what my husband was up to. It turned out he had told the woman that she could move into my condo that we had moved out of! I did find out they had not had intercourse, but she was giving him oral sex at work! She was married too! I insisted they end things and we worked on our marriage. I am telling you this, because she may have done what she did to get information. See, they lie and tell us that the mistress is the one doing all of the pursuing... .He was so innocent! Not true- his co-workers told me he did all the pursuing! I still say, you don't know what he told her.  I have been there. Put yourself in the wife's position... .since that is where you are wanting to be. It's great you are setting boundaries... .He is acting like my husband did... .It sounds so familiar.  Make sure he knows you love him and are waiting on him to get the divorce. Keep learning, you will need to learn how to talk to him... .It is like dealing with a child. You must be nice, but have rules. If you do not stick with the rules, they will not believe you. They will test them. Don't say anything you don't intend to follow through on yourself. Good luck.

Lol. This is funny 

See the problem with my partner is he never considered his wife to be his wife, he more considered her to be a roommate. He was never in love with her. She functioned like a beard does for a gay man, kept other woman away, let him focus on his work. He's very introverted, smart and creative so it worked for him until it didn't work anymore (he met me). He actually dissolved his marriage once before but then he went back to her because he felt bad.

I hear what you are saying about rules. I told my partner the only thing he can do that will stabilize our relationship is file for divorce and he assures me he will be doing that this Friday. His divorce is very complicated now because it involves intellectual property and other people.

Marrying me was his idea, not mine. I'm a very independent person and I'm enjoying my freedom. Actually one of the problems was he considered me his wife and wanted to treat me like his wife while he was still married to his wife. I was like "no way". He and his wife hadn't had sex for years. If I was his wife, I would never put up with that. She knew I was talking to him, I didn't know she existed. She knew all about me and our relationship, I knew nothing about her and their relationship. Yes, she thought I was pursuing him, knowing he was a married man. I was shocked to find out he was. She was not very nice to me, and yes I understand her position, however I still don't like her character.

[Herodias]

Who told you they hadn't had sex in years? Who told you they were just roommates? Who told you she knew all about you? They are good at triangulating though- making you work harder for the relationship. We will see on Friday then. He should have copies of paperwork he filed. When mine wanted to prove he's telling me the truth, he always shows me some kind of evidence.

[unicorn2014]

Who told you they hadn't had sex in years? Who told you they were just roommates? Who told you she knew all about you? They are good at triangulating though- making you work harder for the relationship. We will see on Friday then. He should have copies of paperwork he filed. When mine wanted to prove he's telling me the truth, he always shows me some kind of evidence.

He told me they hadn't had sex in years, he told me they were just roommates, they weren't sleeping in the same bed. One time his wife took a picture of him sleeping on the floor, to show me he was her husband. She is the one who told me she knew about me. She's creepy. She let him talk to me. If I was her and I found out about me the first day I would have called me up and said "uh uh honey, that's my husband you're messing with". That's one of the complaints he has about her. Its a big mess.

He should have a case number for me sometime next week.

I'm actually making him work for the relationship, I'm not working for it. I'm working on myself so I can be in it cause sometimes my partner and I get into real big fights, the people on the undecided board are well familiar with that. That's why they told me to take a big step back and I finally did and things are going much better now. Both my partner and I have volatile personalities however I know I have a problem and I've worked on it, so I have a big head start on my partner. Its up to me to be the emotional leader and sometimes, a lot of the time, I resent that, but there are times when he shows up to the game with a full deck of cards, so its not totally an imbalanced relationship. If it were I wouldn't be in it.