BPDFamily.com

uBPDw's therapist called me a little while ago and asked for some details about the events leading up to the overdose, so I filled him in.

He also asked whether uBPDw would be coming home afterwards.  I told him that I didn't think that would be a good idea.  So I imagine uBPDw will know something is up if she doesn't already.

She actually called me during the conversation with her therapist and left a voicemail.  It turns out they have unlimited phone access, provided they don't get too animated.  I don't like this at all... .

If it appears that your wife, her family, and wife's T all sound as if they think she should be coming home, and you know that is not the best solution, that OK becomes more critical to get in place on Monday.

prof, your wife has "unlimited" phone access to her T, did I understand that right?  Why does this concern you?

WW

So... .did the order get signed?

I'm assuming (please clarify) that your texts to the family were about divorcing... the d word was used?

What did you ask Dad to do?  Did you offer to pay expenses to get her... wherever there is?

FF

No, it's unlimited access to the phone, period.  I don't want her constantly calling me!


No news yet.  I'm assuming this means we got the judge who takes Fridays off.


Yes, it was.


I asked him if he (or sister/stepmom -- I texted all 3 essentially the same thing) wanted to take over as the main contact person for the hospital.  And also if he would be interested in helping to make arrangements for her after her release.

I have not offered to pay anything.   I'm not opposed to the idea -- I just haven't brought it up to them.

A couple thoughts:

1. She can call. You’re under no obligation to answer. In fact, if she does a call-50-times-obsessive thing, there is probably someone watching that kind of behavior right?

2. Is there a way to check with the hospital to see who your wife is being discharged to? Will they release her on her own or do they require someone to accompany her? Is there a chance she’ll be discharged this weekend before the order is signed?

uBPDw just called.  I answered, mostly hoping that she would get a chance to talk to S5.  He was more concerned about a video he was watching, though.  

Her family has apparently informed her that I'm filing for divorce.  She claimed that she's not going to fight it.  She's obviously been pumped full of psych meds, though, so we'll see... .

She also claimed that she's getting out tomorrow.  That would only be 48 hours, and I've been told that stays there are 72 hours minimum, and that is generally for patients who either came voluntarily or have a good support system coming out.  My L guessed it might be more like 10 days.

Yeah, these were my thoughts too.  I recognize the number now, and have let it ring once already.  I picked up a few minutes ago only to give her a chance to say hi to S5, which didn't go well.


I asked essentially this of her T earlier this evening when he called.  As long as she doesn't take me off the list, then I should be able to get that information.

From my understanding, the absolute soonest she could get out would be 72 hours after she was admitted, which would be Sunday evening.  But my L thinks that's unlikely.

Is your wife's T aware that she is not welcome at home?  Is the psych hospital aware of that?

Do you have a way to contact your L over the weekend?


I'm guessing it will be longer than 72 hours... .but it is concerning that this is an issue of speculation.

FF

Yes -- I told him this when we spoke earlier.  This is the T at the psych hospital.  She doesn't have a regular one currently.


Yes -- I've already sent him an email regarding her call.


No kidding !

When I was the primary outside support person for a family who had a member needing intensive psych services (not even attempted suicide), it was more like 10 days; there were a couple of weekends involved.

I wouldn't trust what she tells you at this point; they probably haven't told her much about what will happen because they don't know. They need to get her stabilized (or what they think is stable); psych meds take a while to really kick in.

prof, I hope you have a peaceful weekend. Any plans for fun with S5?

WW

Yeah, I think you're right.

My mom was bipolar, and she was hospitalized a number of times after manic episodes.  They were usually ~2 weeks if I recall.

Thanks, WW!

Tomorrow morning, we'll be driving 14 cats halfway across the state, .  (Silver lining: 5 of them are our fosters, so our house will be that much calmer.)

We'll have to figure out something cool to do once we've done with that.

Excellent!  That should be a quiet ride.  Cats LOVE car trips 

Hi prof,

You have a 'free' day today that you can switch off a little from the intense situation that you find yourself in and focus on having a lovely time with your son.  Give yourself a little grace to get present with him and take some relaxation in having fun together.  This is a great opportunity to rest your mind and emotions a bit, as you're needing all of your strength to deal with so very much at the moment and renewal of your energy is very important.  We're all wishing you well and hoping for a good outcome to all of this.  You have a lot of people here rooting for you and sending positive energy your way.  Try to put red alert to one side for a few hours at least.  Today is safe.  Enjoy it.

Love and light x

The cat dropoff point was on the outskirts of our nearest big city.  We decided to drive to the train station and took the train in to a particular kid-oriented attraction I've been meaning to take S5 to for a while.  He had a blast!  (I did too!)

---

There was a little uBPDw-related drama.  She's been telling her family she's getting out tomorrow, and so they were contacting me (and she was calling me) about me either picking her up or getting her some stuff.

Tomorrow would only be 72 hours -- the absolute minimum stay.  As I think I mentioned above, my L says this is usually only for people who voluntarily checked themselves in or who have a loving support system to return to.  So I called her nurse, who clarified that a doctor's order needs to be given for a patient to be released.  When I asked if a doctor's order had been given for uBPDw yet, she actually laughed!

uBPDw's family have also contacted an old friend of uBPDw (actually the maid of honor at our wedding) to help figure things out.  The friend has been very pleasant with me.  (She's been through a divorce, and has actually put some distance in her relationship with uBPDw because of all the drama in the past few months.  So she's quite understanding of my situation.)

First of all... .solid work on having fun!   |iiii

So, it appears to be driven by her FOO... .but lots of extra people are getting tossed in here.

I would recommend asking the friend if she would coordinate a three way phone call with you, her and perhaps the Dad or whoever the family wants as their representative.

Certainly talk to the friend ahead of time.  If they want the friend to speak for them, then establish that in the three way call.

I get it it's not your job to fix wacky communications... .but in this case I think being proactive will help you.

Thoughts?

FF

uBPDw's sister called me this morning and got hostile because I wouldn't drive uBPDw's car to the hospital for her.  (I live an hour away -- how would I get home?)  When started swearing at me, I said goodbye and hung up.  She then sent a stream of angry texts.

So uBPDw's friend has agreed to be my main point of contact.  I don't particularly want to interact with the sister again any time soon.

uBPDw's stepmom (the one that lives one state away) has agreed to have her stay there for a few weeks.  I've agreed to give uBPDw some money and pack up her car for her.

She told everyone that she was getting out today, so I've been running around the house getting everything packed.  But I just got a call that now it's tomorrow... . uBPDw took me off the list at the hospital, so I can't confirm any of this with her nurses.  My L thinks it will be longer -- in his experience, this place doesn't do evaluations on a daily place.

packing and organization is good? 

Would it be possible to have all "her" stuff ready?

I'm assuming the order will be signed on Monday, it would still be nice for there to be no "reason" for her to come back to house.

FF

Is there Uber around there?  Or a really good friend that can help you get the car there.

It's not to appease the family, but more about solid boundaries.

FF

I would agree with formflier.  It would be good to ensure that you have put some clear distance between you for a time whilst you work things out around your safety and that of your son.  I'd imagine you don't want her to come and get the car and stuff herself.  Could your wife's friend go with you to drop off the car and belongings, then bring you back perhaps?  It would give you one less thing to be concerned about and show you are willing to facilitate her having all that she needs.

Love and light x 

I may be able to get a colleague to help me with getting her car to the hospital on Tuesday if she's still there.  Tomorrow's just too crazy, as I have a T appointment an hour in pretty much the opposite direction from the hospital.

Just now, S5 spoke to uBPDw on the phone for the first time since this all happened.  Last night, he told me that he didn't want to, but he's come around.  So far, all he knows is that uBPDw is really sick and is in the hospital.  From what I can tell, he mostly just told her about the new Matchbox toy he bought this afternoon.

I haven't talked about the divorce with him yet.  This is definitely one of the topics I want to discuss with my T tomorrow.

uBPDw also admitted she did meth for two days before she came home last Monday.  (That was the night of the interrupted 911 call -- the "final straw" that started this thread.)

prof, hang in there. I have had my wife in for a 72 hour hold, and done a restraining order.  It is very difficult.  I have rushed around the house, packing things for her out of respect and wanting her to have what she needed.  You are doing all the right things.  Tomorrow sounds like a very busy day.  Once you get her stuff and her car to her, you should be able to start getting some distance and a break.  Her family may try to suck you into drama, but keep your boundaries and calmly enforce them.  You need some drama-free days ahead, to restore yourself, and give your son and job a little loving.

WW

prof, as Wentworth just said, her family and friends may continue to drive some of the same kinds of guilt inducing and manipulative behaviors you experienced from your uBPDw. The other week I made the mistake, during a 1 on 1 conversation with my mother in law, of hinting at “things changing” between my wife and I. My MIL immediately broke down in tears and begged me not to prevent her from seeing her granddaughter. The family’s feelings are real and they will have various ways of expressing them / dealing with them / trying to put them on you. Be strong in your knowledge that you’re making the best decision you can possibly make, no one has all the details you do, and distance and boundaries are key.

I’m really rooting for you prof - you’re doing really great work here.

Thanks everyone for your support!

uBPDw now claims she is getting out tomorrow morning.  We'll see.  I've agreed to drop off her phone, car keys, and some clothes to the hospital this evening.

On the phone this morning, she suggested we try counseling again.  She claims that her behavior is due to her opiate prescriptions.  (This is completely false -- she behaved pretty much the same way a few years ago when she wasn't taking any.)  I told her that, no, I have made my decision.

The temporary custody order is supposed to go through today.

I certainly wouldn't want you to hold out false hope to her and I likely wouldn't want you to be in anything called "marriage counseling".

However, if she is willing to counsel, it is likely wise to take her up on the offer... .if for no other reason that to create accountability.

A family therapist saying that she should x,y, and z for the benefit of S5 and then looking at the record to see if she did x, y and z, will be a powerful thing as you move forward in legal proceedings.

I realize you have to be judicious with the time you spend on this, versus the time you spend on S5. 

Perhaps she starts with individual therapy and when that therapist is willing to put in writing that she is ready for accountability and family T, perhaps then you evaluate spending some time jointly discussing parenting.

FF

I’m not disagreeing with FF, but prof, I respect the way you said “I have made my decision.”

You are in a period of time where every member of this system, from your wife to the drug dealer, is going to put incredible pressure on you to NOT change the status quo.

Ignore them.

BUT, stay focused on yourself, and your own desires, your own best interests and those of your son.

That’s my suggestion. It’s what I’d try and do for myself at least if I was in the same situation.

I'm very hesitant about the idea of doing any counseling with uBPDw in the future.  I'm all for LC co-parenting from here on out.

Somewhat ironically considering what I'm about to go through, my T had to cancel my appointment because he's appearing in court today.  They told me that they're going to try to reschedule for this week.

The point of counselling and the most likely outcome is "proof" for the courts.

If she becomes a better parent... .all the better.

FF

In the UK there are separated parents information programmes, which family court can order be attended by both parents (separately) in order to improve co parenting to reduce impact on the child.  This may be something worth looking into where you are to see if your L thinks that might be a something to pursue.  Short term though, if your wife comes to the house for her car, will she have access to your home and do you intend to interact with her? 

Love and light x

Did the locks get changed?

What about the temp order?

FF

Hi prof,

Thinking of you today.  How are things going? 

Love and light x

uBPDw was released from the hospital this morning.  While I was at work, she got a taxi ride home, picked up her car without entering the house (no keys), and began driving to her stepmom's house.  I just got a text that she has about an hour to go.

I met with my T today.  He agreed that I made the correct decision, and seemed to think that I was handling everything in a healthy way.

The order will hopefully go through tomorrow -- it seems like my L has been playing whack-a-mole trying to pin down the judge.  (The same judge apparently jumps around between several small rural counties like mine.)  He hopes to have the order signed in the morning.  Fortunately, uBPDw has been very agreeable and is going out of state anyway, so there ended up not being much urgency.

prof, thanks for the update. 

I won't take a position on the counseling thing, but will give some thoughts.  Make sure any counseling you consider is in coordination with your therapist and lawyer, meeting specific objectives that you've agreed on with one of them.  Any sort of counseling with a pwBPD has the potential for drama and sucking your energy.  I found that post-restraining order it took me a while to wind down my involvement in engineering my wife's therapy, negotiating with her over various child care and financial issues, etc.  The interactions with her ended up being pretty distressing to me, and the less contact I had the better I did.

Have you had any discussions with your lawyer about a custody evaluation, or something that our state calls a "focused assessment" that is targeted at specific issues like supervised vs. unsupervised visits?  I believe accountability might be folded into this, depending on conditions where you live.  Backing up a bit, what's the thinking on visitation between S5 and your wife?

WW

Thread hijack for a FF harumph... .

So... .the state of mental health "inpatient" facilities is such that after a bona fide suicide attempt, a person is put in a taxi to drive to a house where there are no keys and allowed then to take off driving.

Umm... .that's just a sh$tty way to run things... .

I get it people have rights and all that (which you somewhat don't have in the military), but I was used to lots of structure when I put guys into med hold/psych hold.  The specific intent was so that nobody was surprised and many people had a "vote" if the person was ready to graduate to another level... .

grrrrr.

OK prof... .you can have your thread back...

FF

Sounds good to me.  Minimizing interactions with her is pretty much the main reason I'm leaving the R/S to begin with!


He did ask my feelings a little bit during our last in-person meeting.  At that point, I honestly hadn't thought that far ahead.  This was all before uBPDw decided to move out of state.  That certainly will make it more difficult for uBPDw to actually visit with him.  I'm open to the idea of him visiting her during breaks from school.


My understanding is that her T at the hospital spoke with her stepmom and vetted the situation a bit.  They also made sure that she had appointments lined up at a facility down there for the coming weeks.  The "getting there" part wasn't ideal, but I suppose they figured it was her best chance once going home was no longer an option.


No worries!

Speaking of hijacking, uBPDw kept trying to hijack her video chat with S5 tonight to ask me about my reasons for filing... .  I think tomorrow night I'm just going to give him my phone and go do other stuff.

It sounds like she managed to be discharged and get out of your hair without any drama. Thank goodness for that! (Drama will come later, no doubt.)

Oh, it certainly has begun!  She called me this morning right at 7 am(!) as I was beginning my commute to ask why I'm finally filing for divorce.  No explanation satisfied her, and I eventually ended the conversation.  She sent several texts, claiming that now she is going to fight for custody.  Sigh.

But I am very thankful that the drama waited until she was out of state!

Likely best to not JADE over that.

Find a short thing to say and stick with it.

More critical than ever that you get the order signed and that you and your child get into counseling (courts love counseling with accountability)

Fortunately for you, the record should be clear about who the stable parent is.

One thing I noticed earlier, I would not mention or offer her unsupervised visitation... .ever, until decree is final.

Your story will make sense to a judge, well judge I was fine with her parenting judgement until she gave S5 to weed dealer, that was last straw for me.

Make sense?

FF

My thoughts exactly -- this is partly why I ended the conversation.  (I mainly just wanted some peace and quiet while I drove so I could enjoy my NPR and look at the crazy blue/eclipsed/supermoon!)


The order is now officially signed.  uBPDw will be served it and the divorce papers here at some point soon.

I'm regularly in counseling and met with my T yesterday.  I asked him about S5.  He didn't recommend counseling for him yet -- not unless I see a big change in behavior.


My L says we're in the "driver's seat" and should be in a good position regarding custody.  uBPDw is claiming that she's retained a lawyer, but unless she has found one pro bono, I don't know how she would have the resources to do so.

uBPDw and I had informally discussed the possibility of her getting S5 during breaks from school.  This was while she was still in the hospital and before things started taking a more adversarial turn.  I won't discuss it further.

I would revisit this issue.  My hope is that you could find a colleague of his to do "parental therapy" or family therapy.  Not so much as a "fix" but to demonstrate pro-active thinking and action.

That would be a good thing... .again... courts love counseling, especially when you are trying to improve and already good r/s with your son.

"Your honor, while S5 and I have a wonderful relationship, with all the stress of the drug use, overdose and hospitalization I realized that I need to be at my best for S5 and to keep a close watch for potential issues."

Something like that is the thought.

FF

If the school haven't reported any concerning behaviour, then this is a positive sign.  However, it may be worth speaking to them to see if they provide special support for children who are going through difficult situations in their home life.  Even if he is unaware of any disturbing behaviour at home (is he?) the current separation and impending divorce can be a difficult time emotionally for a child, so they may offer some play therapy or other support as a preventative measure and a means to monitor how he is coping.

Glad to hear that you have good support for yourself and the order is signed.  One method of communication in these situations that I found a good discussion on here is called BIFF (brief, informative, friendly, firm).  You may find this useful as a prompt to yourself in any necessary discussion with your wife.  There's a link to the site information on this Here (https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=133835.0).  I've found it helps me when dealing with my son's father, who has traits of NPD.  Above all else, only discuss what needs to be spoken about essentially and don't allow yourself to be drawn into anything else.

Love and light x

prof, I know this must be quite an emotional wringer you're going through, but you really are doing remarkably well  |iiii

Harley Quinn mentioned play therapy, which I mentioned, too, or you could do art therapy.  I am absolutely not an expert, but they seemed pretty harmless to me, and one thing I'd add to formflier's motivation about the courts liking it is that it's nice to find a therapist for your son when things are calm, rather than when a problem has cropped up, since it takes a while to establish rapport, and a child in distress might be more difficult to establish rapport with.

Also, I don't see mention of the "Splitting" book in this thread.  Have you read it?  Something tells me you have, but I wanted to check.

WW

Just a quick check-in to say that you are doing great... .I'm in awe of your resolve!

Thanks again everyone for your support!


Yes -- I purchased it this past summer when I almost filed for divorce.

uBPDw has gone back to being surprisingly calm and agreeable.  She's on board with me having custody for the time being and doesn't want to fight for too much.  I'm apprehensive about whether this will continue, but I'm hopeful!

It sounds like she may be moving out of the stepmom's house pretty soon, which honestly doesn't surprise me.  I'm probably the person in the world she tolerates the most!  She's talking about moving back to this state and staying in some kind of women's shelter, in part for the legal help.

I noticed that this thread has been moved from Detaching to Conflicted.  Out of curiosity, why?

Be wary of what she might end up re: women's shelters.  If she associates with a DV shelter, you become the target.

Yeah, this worries me, too.  My L told me that some employers will get rid of you at the first sign of anything fishy, whether it has merit or not.  The last thing I want to happen is to lose my job!

Fortunately, it sounds like things are starting to look up today for uBPDw.  She claims she's gotten two job offers and that she physically feels as good as she has in months.  While in the mental hospital, she detoxed off her opiates, so she's no longer taking those.

Hi prof,

When a thread is moved you can contact the moderators to discuss.  There is a link Here (https://bpdfamily.com/resolve).

Love and light x

uBPDw is doing surprisingly well.  She's just been hired at a job and is hoping to get her own place soon.

She calls me a lot and video chats with S5, but so far things are very friendly.  I think we both want essentially the same things with the divorce, so hopefully it goes smoothly.

Hired at a job... where? hours away or close by?

Does she realize you have the temp order? 

FF

Any ideas why this might be happening? Did they start her on different meds when she detoxed from the opiates? Is there some other factor?

My immediate thought is trust but verify. If it’s too good to be true it usually isn’t. I hope I’m wrong and that this is a genuine 180 degree turn around. This has been really rough, prof. You’ve done such great things for yourself and S5. Stay the course and no matter what happens with uBPDstbxw I’m sure you’ll find a solid path for your family.

Hours away.  She's still staying with her stepmom.


Yes, she does.  And she's totally fine with it while she's getting back on her feet.


She claims they lowered the dosage of her antidepressants.  I learned today that she has some new anxiety meds.  So that might be part of it.

My feeling is a large part of her turnaround is getting away from me.  I think my enabling and codependency was as bad for her as her raging and paranoia was bad for me.

Plus, she's around people again.  S5 and I have the advantage of getting out going to school/work every day and seeing people.  But uBPDw would stay in our house for sometimes weeks at a time without seeing another soul.


Thanks, DB!

Prof,
Just wanted to let you know I've been following your posts and rooting for you.

Your observations above are very astute.  I have seen this play out with my MIL.  She was a totally different person during the months when she was caring for her FIL through the final stages of cancer.  She was happier, stronger, and far less toxic to be around even though she was physically and emotionally drained.  I believe that having a purpose made all the difference.  BUT she went back to her previous life after her FIL's death.  I lay the "blame" both on the people around her who went back to the comfortable patterns and low expectations of her, and on her for doing the same.  I think it takes incredible strength to overcome our own self destructive and/or enabling patterns.  I wish you and her the best in doing so.
BeagleGirl

uBPDstbxw (that's so much more of a mouthful than uBPDw... .) is going on today about how much she misses S5 and is already trying to lobby for more custody.  She's already signed a 12-month custody agreement giving me full custody, which is likely going before the judge tomorrow.  She's already floating the idea of moving back to be closer, or trying to get me to drive him down every few weekends.

We already spend an inordinate amount of time video chatting, and she calls me practically more than when we were together.  I'm beginning to get annoyed.

prof, sit tight.  Let that order get signed.  This will all be decided in the land of grown ups.

I have had similar experiences with my wife, who agrees to things legally and then thinks they are as malleable as the shifting reality around our home used to be.  Lawyers and judges don't work that way.  Just last week, she wanted to have a side conversation on a custody issue the lawyers already had a plan for.  I refused to engage.  It can be stressful, but if you learn to resist the urge to get sucked in, you will feel better.

What are you talking to her about?  I went through a similar period right after our RO was served, when I was trying to be helpful and collaborative.  We are still working together well, but I am talking to my wife much less, and am much happier.  A few weeks after the RO, we were having 4 hour text conversations.  I hope that makes you feel better about how you are doing!  Now texts are limited to time sensitive logistics like carpool signup, kid pickup times, etc.  If she asks me a meaty question by text, I answer by email.  I do not ever talk to her by voice or video, per our RO.  We speak briefly at kids sporting events.  I am much happier than in the days of marathon text conversations!

Long story short, if you are getting annoyed, it is up to you to set some boundaries that will work for you.

WW

I agree.  Make sure that order gets signed, then you have backup to the boundaries you put in place re: videochatting, driving, etc.

Understand that she will use you and S5 when she cannot self-soothe.

When you have a signed order, the judge or a parenting consultant is going to want to let any parenting schedule gel for a while before considering any changes. Impulse-driven demands won't be catered to.

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