Final straw -- I'm done: Part 2

[How to communicate after a contentious divorce...]

In the UK there are separated parents information programmes, which family court can order be attended by both parents (separately) in order to improve co parenting to reduce impact on the child.  This may be something worth looking into where you are to see if your L thinks that might be a something to pursue.  Short term though, if your wife comes to the house for her car, will she have access to your home and do you intend to interact with her? 

Love and light x

[Harley Quinn]

In the UK there are separated parents information programmes, which family court can order be attended by both parents (separately) in order to improve co parenting to reduce impact on the child.  This may be something worth looking into where you are to see if your L thinks that might be a something to pursue.  Short term though, if your wife comes to the house for her car, will she have access to your home and do you intend to interact with her? 

Love and light x

[formflier]

Did the locks get changed?

What about the temp order?

FF

[Harley Quinn]

Hi prof,

Thinking of you today.  How are things going? 

Love and light x

[prof]

uBPDw was released from the hospital this morning.  While I was at work, she got a taxi ride home, picked up her car without entering the house (no keys), and began driving to her stepmom's house.  I just got a text that she has about an hour to go.

I met with my T today.  He agreed that I made the correct decision, and seemed to think that I was handling everything in a healthy way.

The order will hopefully go through tomorrow -- it seems like my L has been playing whack-a-mole trying to pin down the judge.  (The same judge apparently jumps around between several small rural counties like mine.)  He hopes to have the order signed in the morning.  Fortunately, uBPDw has been very agreeable and is going out of state anyway, so there ended up not being much urgency.

[Radcliff]

prof, thanks for the update. 

I won't take a position on the counseling thing, but will give some thoughts.  Make sure any counseling you consider is in coordination with your therapist and lawyer, meeting specific objectives that you've agreed on with one of them.  Any sort of counseling with a pwBPD has the potential for drama and sucking your energy.  I found that post-restraining order it took me a while to wind down my involvement in engineering my wife's therapy, negotiating with her over various child care and financial issues, etc.  The interactions with her ended up being pretty distressing to me, and the less contact I had the better I did.

Have you had any discussions with your lawyer about a custody evaluation, or something that our state calls a "focused assessment" that is targeted at specific issues like supervised vs. unsupervised visits?  I believe accountability might be folded into this, depending on conditions where you live.  Backing up a bit, what's the thinking on visitation between S5 and your wife?

WW

[formflier]

Thread hijack for a FF harumph... .

So... .the state of mental health "inpatient" facilities is such that after a bona fide suicide attempt, a person is put in a taxi to drive to a house where there are no keys and allowed then to take off driving.

Umm... .that's just a sh$tty way to run things... .

I get it people have rights and all that (which you somewhat don't have in the military), but I was used to lots of structure when I put guys into med hold/psych hold.  The specific intent was so that nobody was surprised and many people had a "vote" if the person was ready to graduate to another level... .

grrrrr.

OK prof... .you can have your thread back...

FF

[prof]

I won't take a position on the counseling thing, but will give some thoughts.  Make sure any counseling you consider is in coordination with your therapist and lawyer, meeting specific objectives that you've agreed on with one of them.  Any sort of counseling with a pwBPD has the potential for drama and sucking your energy.  I found that post-restraining order it took me a while to wind down my involvement in engineering my wife's therapy, negotiating with her over various child care and financial issues, etc.  The interactions with her ended up being pretty distressing to me, and the less contact I had the better I did.

Sounds good to me.  Minimizing interactions with her is pretty much the main reason I'm leaving the R/S to begin with!

Have you had any discussions with your lawyer about a custody evaluation, or something that our state calls a "focused assessment" that is targeted at specific issues like supervised vs. unsupervised visits?  I believe accountability might be folded into this, depending on conditions where you live.  Backing up a bit, what's the thinking on visitation between S5 and your wife?

He did ask my feelings a little bit during our last in-person meeting.  At that point, I honestly hadn't thought that far ahead.  This was all before uBPDw decided to move out of state.  That certainly will make it more difficult for uBPDw to actually visit with him.  I'm open to the idea of him visiting her during breaks from school.

So... .the state of mental health "inpatient" facilities is such that after a bona fide suicide attempt, a person is put in a taxi to drive to a house where there are no keys and allowed then to take off driving.

Umm... .that's just a sh$tty way to run things... .

I get it people have rights and all that (which you somewhat don't have in the military), but I was used to lots of structure when I put guys into med hold/psych hold.  The specific intent was so that nobody was surprised and many people had a "vote" if the person was ready to graduate to another level... .

grrrrr.

My understanding is that her T at the hospital spoke with her stepmom and vetted the situation a bit.  They also made sure that she had appointments lined up at a facility down there for the coming weeks.  The "getting there" part wasn't ideal, but I suppose they figured it was her best chance once going home was no longer an option.

OK prof... .you can have your thread back...

No worries!

Speaking of hijacking, uBPDw kept trying to hijack her video chat with S5 tonight to ask me about my reasons for filing... .  I think tomorrow night I'm just going to give him my phone and go do other stuff.

[flourdust]

It sounds like she managed to be discharged and get out of your hair without any drama. Thank goodness for that! (Drama will come later, no doubt.)

[prof]

It sounds like she managed to be discharged and get out of your hair without any drama. Thank goodness for that! (Drama will come later, no doubt.)

Oh, it certainly has begun!  She called me this morning right at 7 am(!) as I was beginning my commute to ask why I'm finally filing for divorce.  No explanation satisfied her, and I eventually ended the conversation.  She sent several texts, claiming that now she is going to fight for custody.  Sigh.

But I am very thankful that the drama waited until she was out of state!

[formflier]

Likely best to not JADE over that.

Find a short thing to say and stick with it.

More critical than ever that you get the order signed and that you and your child get into counseling (courts love counseling with accountability)

Fortunately for you, the record should be clear about who the stable parent is.

One thing I noticed earlier, I would not mention or offer her unsupervised visitation... .ever, until decree is final.

Your story will make sense to a judge, well judge I was fine with her parenting judgement until she gave S5 to weed dealer, that was last straw for me.

Make sense?

FF

[prof]

Likely best to not JADE over that.

Find a short thing to say and stick with it.

My thoughts exactly -- this is partly why I ended the conversation.  (I mainly just wanted some peace and quiet while I drove so I could enjoy my NPR and look at the crazy blue/eclipsed/supermoon!)

More critical than ever that you get the order signed and that you and your child get into counseling (courts love counseling with accountability)

The order is now officially signed.  uBPDw will be served it and the divorce papers here at some point soon.

I'm regularly in counseling and met with my T yesterday.  I asked him about S5.  He didn't recommend counseling for him yet -- not unless I see a big change in behavior.

Fortunately for you, the record should be clear about who the stable parent is.

One thing I noticed earlier, I would not mention or offer her unsupervised visitation... .ever, until decree is final.

Your story will make sense to a judge, well judge I was fine with her parenting judgement until she gave S5 to weed dealer, that was last straw for me.

Make sense?

My L says we're in the "driver's seat" and should be in a good position regarding custody.  uBPDw is claiming that she's retained a lawyer, but unless she has found one pro bono, I don't know how she would have the resources to do so.

uBPDw and I had informally discussed the possibility of her getting S5 during breaks from school.  This was while she was still in the hospital and before things started taking a more adversarial turn.  I won't discuss it further.

[formflier]

  He didn't recommend counseling for him yet -- not unless I see a big change in behavior.
 

I would revisit this issue.  My hope is that you could find a colleague of his to do "parental therapy" or family therapy.  Not so much as a "fix" but to demonstrate pro-active thinking and action.

That would be a good thing... .again... courts love counseling, especially when you are trying to improve and already good r/s with your son.

"Your honor, while S5 and I have a wonderful relationship, with all the stress of the drug use, overdose and hospitalization I realized that I need to be at my best for S5 and to keep a close watch for potential issues."

Something like that is the thought.

FF

[Harley Quinn]

If the school haven't reported any concerning behaviour, then this is a positive sign.  However, it may be worth speaking to them to see if they provide special support for children who are going through difficult situations in their home life.  Even if he is unaware of any disturbing behaviour at home (is he?) the current separation and impending divorce can be a difficult time emotionally for a child, so they may offer some play therapy or other support as a preventative measure and a means to monitor how he is coping.

Glad to hear that you have good support for yourself and the order is signed.  One method of communication in these situations that I found a good discussion on here is called BIFF (brief, informative, friendly, firm).  You may find this useful as a prompt to yourself in any necessary discussion with your wife.  There's a link to the site information on this Here.  I've found it helps me when dealing with my son's father, who has traits of NPD.  Above all else, only discuss what needs to be spoken about essentially and don't allow yourself to be drawn into anything else.

Love and light x

[Radcliff]

prof, I know this must be quite an emotional wringer you're going through, but you really are doing remarkably well 

Harley Quinn mentioned play therapy, which I mentioned, too, or you could do art therapy.  I am absolutely not an expert, but they seemed pretty harmless to me, and one thing I'd add to formflier's motivation about the courts liking it is that it's nice to find a therapist for your son when things are calm, rather than when a problem has cropped up, since it takes a while to establish rapport, and a child in distress might be more difficult to establish rapport with.

Also, I don't see mention of the "Splitting" book in this thread.  Have you read it?  Something tells me you have, but I wanted to check.

WW

[GaGrl]

Just a quick check-in to say that you are doing great... .I'm in awe of your resolve!

[prof]

Thanks again everyone for your support!

Also, I don't see mention of the "Splitting" book in this thread.  Have you read it?  Something tells me you have, but I wanted to check.

Yes -- I purchased it this past summer when I almost filed for divorce.

uBPDw has gone back to being surprisingly calm and agreeable.  She's on board with me having custody for the time being and doesn't want to fight for too much.  I'm apprehensive about whether this will continue, but I'm hopeful!

It sounds like she may be moving out of the stepmom's house pretty soon, which honestly doesn't surprise me.  I'm probably the person in the world she tolerates the most!  She's talking about moving back to this state and staying in some kind of women's shelter, in part for the legal help.

[prof]

I noticed that this thread has been moved from Detaching to Conflicted.  Out of curiosity, why?

[GaGrl]

Be wary of what she might end up re: women's shelters.  If she associates with a DV shelter, you become the target.

[prof]

Be wary of what she might end up re: women's shelters.  If she associates with a DV shelter, you become the target.

Yeah, this worries me, too.  My L told me that some employers will get rid of you at the first sign of anything fishy, whether it has merit or not.  The last thing I want to happen is to lose my job!

Fortunately, it sounds like things are starting to look up today for uBPDw.  She claims she's gotten two job offers and that she physically feels as good as she has in months.  While in the mental hospital, she detoxed off her opiates, so she's no longer taking those.

[Harley Quinn]

I noticed that this thread has been moved from Detaching to Conflicted.  Out of curiosity, why?

Hi prof,

When a thread is moved you can contact the moderators to discuss.  There is a link Here.

Love and light x

[prof]

uBPDw is doing surprisingly well.  She's just been hired at a job and is hoping to get her own place soon.

She calls me a lot and video chats with S5, but so far things are very friendly.  I think we both want essentially the same things with the divorce, so hopefully it goes smoothly.

[formflier]

Hired at a job... where? hours away or close by?

Does she realize you have the temp order? 

FF

[DaddyBear77]

uBPDw is doing surprisingly well.

Any ideas why this might be happening? Did they start her on different meds when she detoxed from the opiates? Is there some other factor?

My immediate thought is trust but verify. If it’s too good to be true it usually isn’t. I hope I’m wrong and that this is a genuine 180 degree turn around. This has been really rough, prof. You’ve done such great things for yourself and S5. Stay the course and no matter what happens with uBPDstbxw I’m sure you’ll find a solid path for your family.

[prof]

Hired at a job... where? hours away or close by?

Hours away.  She's still staying with her stepmom.

Does she realize you have the temp order? 

Yes, she does.  And she's totally fine with it while she's getting back on her feet.

Any ideas why this might be happening? Did they start her on different meds when she detoxed from the opiates? Is there some other factor?

She claims they lowered the dosage of her antidepressants.  I learned today that she has some new anxiety meds.  So that might be part of it.

My feeling is a large part of her turnaround is getting away from me.  I think my enabling and codependency was as bad for her as her raging and paranoia was bad for me.

Plus, she's around people again.  S5 and I have the advantage of getting out going to school/work every day and seeing people.  But uBPDw would stay in our house for sometimes weeks at a time without seeing another soul.

My immediate thought is trust but verify. If it’s too good to be true it usually isn’t. I hope I’m wrong and that this is a genuine 180 degree turn around. This has been really rough, prof. You’ve done such great things for yourself and S5. Stay the course and no matter what happens with uBPDstbxw I’m sure you’ll find a solid path for your family.

Thanks, DB!

[BeagleGirl]

My feeling is a large part of her turnaround is getting away from me.  I think my enabling and codependency was as bad for her as her raging and paranoia was bad for me.

Plus, she's around people again.  S5 and I have the advantage of getting out going to school/work every day and seeing people.  But uBPDw would stay in our house for sometimes weeks at a time without seeing another soul.

Prof,
Just wanted to let you know I've been following your posts and rooting for you.

Your observations above are very astute.  I have seen this play out with my MIL.  She was a totally different person during the months when she was caring for her FIL through the final stages of cancer.  She was happier, stronger, and far less toxic to be around even though she was physically and emotionally drained.  I believe that having a purpose made all the difference.  BUT she went back to her previous life after her FIL's death.  I lay the "blame" both on the people around her who went back to the comfortable patterns and low expectations of her, and on her for doing the same.  I think it takes incredible strength to overcome our own self destructive and/or enabling patterns.  I wish you and her the best in doing so.
BeagleGirl

[prof]

uBPDstbxw (that's so much more of a mouthful than uBPDw... .) is going on today about how much she misses S5 and is already trying to lobby for more custody.  She's already signed a 12-month custody agreement giving me full custody, which is likely going before the judge tomorrow.  She's already floating the idea of moving back to be closer, or trying to get me to drive him down every few weekends.

We already spend an inordinate amount of time video chatting, and she calls me practically more than when we were together.  I'm beginning to get annoyed.

[Radcliff]

prof, sit tight.  Let that order get signed.  This will all be decided in the land of grown ups.

I have had similar experiences with my wife, who agrees to things legally and then thinks they are as malleable as the shifting reality around our home used to be.  Lawyers and judges don't work that way.  Just last week, she wanted to have a side conversation on a custody issue the lawyers already had a plan for.  I refused to engage.  It can be stressful, but if you learn to resist the urge to get sucked in, you will feel better.

What are you talking to her about?  I went through a similar period right after our RO was served, when I was trying to be helpful and collaborative.  We are still working together well, but I am talking to my wife much less, and am much happier.  A few weeks after the RO, we were having 4 hour text conversations.  I hope that makes you feel better about how you are doing!  Now texts are limited to time sensitive logistics like carpool signup, kid pickup times, etc.  If she asks me a meaty question by text, I answer by email.  I do not ever talk to her by voice or video, per our RO.  We speak briefly at kids sporting events.  I am much happier than in the days of marathon text conversations!

Long story short, if you are getting annoyed, it is up to you to set some boundaries that will work for you.

WW

[GaGrl]

prof, sit tight.  Let that order get signed.  This will all be decided in the land of grown ups.

... .

Long story short, if you are getting annoyed, it is up to you to set some boundaries that will work for you.

WW

I agree.  Make sure that order gets signed, then you have backup to the boundaries you put in place re: videochatting, driving, etc.

Understand that she will use you and S5 when she cannot self-soothe.

[flourdust]

When you have a signed order, the judge or a parenting consultant is going to want to let any parenting schedule gel for a while before considering any changes. Impulse-driven demands won't be catered to.

[Mutt]

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