BPDFamily.com

We all on here have different stories but when it comes down to it they are all basically the same process.  Some last months and some years, but the story is typically very similar.  My question is... .How can a BPD continue to repeat the process over and over typically without a break between relationships?  Certainly this has to wear on them at some point.  You would think they would crater at some point.  I have heard it said that most High Functioning BPD people refuse therapy.  Certainly these people realize they have issues.  My ex went off the deep end when I suggested BPD.  I wonder if many refuse help due to the stigma?  Thoughts on this?

My ex had a really tough childhood. Parents weer drug addicts And was staying with family And friends. Her Mother has BPD (amongst othet things). My ex never Wanted therapy because she was afraid what might come up. At the end of the relationship I suggested couples therapy but she refused. Therapy is for the weak she said iTS just not working do Lets move on (she had a rebound waiting). They dont want to work on themselves because they cant admit their flaws. Its too confronting I think?

Two ways to avoid the pain of introspection are repression and projection; my BPD ex and I have both used these maladaptive coping strategies.

One way to get over a break up is to sit with and process the pain, and learn and grow from it.  Another way is to stuff it and find a new object to project on, which is a favorite of impulsive folks who have trouble tolerating and soothing.  Been there, so has she.

But can this truly be maintained break up after breakup over decades?

My husband is high functioning. He's not been "single" since the age of 16. I started putting the pieces together after the first few years of marriage.

He knows there are issues, and not necessarily all mine, but his denial more powerful then his ability to look at himself. His projections are masterpieces.

My BPD ex has been bouncing from one relaionship to the next for decades, many, many men, they overlap, and she doesn't seem to learn anything, so apparently.

My prefered methods in the past were to run and to numb.  I'm not doing that this time, I'm processing and feeling, much harder, but I'm noticing growth too.

I once scratched my own head about this same topic but knowing that something is "off" about you and being motivated to do something about it is two entirely different lanes.

Our ex's aren't motivated.

And as human beings most of us aren't willing to change unless the bottom falls out and what we're doing is no longer working for us. It's kinda like sticking to the Devil you know vs. facing the unknown.

Our ex's repress really PAINFUL stuff. Shame is painful. Facing Abandonment is Painful. Facing Abuse is Painful. Humiliation and Being Violated is painful. Many things happened to our ex's at a time when they were defenseless children. Facing this pain and that special brand of "BPD ugly" would require massive cohones and courage.

Their sense of themselves is already unstable so facing their own truth would feel like falling into the pits of a bottomless black hole.

Spell

Mine goes into "hermit" mode in-between (a typical BPD trait), except for this time where she accused me of "abandoning her like her father" even though we were still in the same house... .and in a relationship, or so I thought... .while she flew into the arms of a man-boy.

I suspect she will possibly reignite that flame after she moves out... .it will end, she go into hermit mode to try to figure things out... .then try again. Rinse/repeat... .forever. The only thing I will do to "rescue" her after that point... .and she needs to come to me to do it, will be to let me talk to her therapist. That's it. Since we will be co-parents as long as we are on this Earth, there is some chance of that happening since I will see her all of the freaking time. I offered it a month ago when I thought there was an off chance of saving things. She was open to it, but after I confronted her about her pathological lying, she shut down. Done.

I don't blame them for not wanting to seek help. It's a way of life for them. They spent many years figuring out how to "ease the pain" they're feeling.

Imagine if the rest of the world was like them and we were the odd man out. How easy would it be for us to not give a sh** about anything anymore? We can't just turn off our feelings for them. They're dealing with the same thing just in reverse.

This really hit home for me. My uBPDexgf was high-functioning, had a good job, many graduate degrees and from the outside it appeared she had everything together in her life. I consider myself a very deep person and I do believe that is a big reason why she was attracted to me; I could do what she could not and that was be introspective. Throughout the relationship with me, she acknowledged many times that she knew there was something wrong inside of her. I, too, knew that something was tormenting her and I wanted so badly to be able to rescue her from that pain. However, she claims to have tried therapy and after several sessions of crying and pouring her heart out (allegedly), the T concluded that she was perfectly normal and knew what she wanted and needed to just continue to persevere in life. It appears she at least tried, but I would guess that she didn't really get to the deep parts of her pain because she is so afraid of it. The truth is, she doesn't have to right now. She's young, beautiful and successful and it will continue to be easy for her to suppress the pain while she soothes herself with these many men through her BPD behavior. Maybe when she is old, fat and grey she will attempt to help herself. Until then, it's too easy.

Their driving motivation is to hide shame and not feel abandoned, so I think in that respect its easy for them to keep moving to the next with little pause, In an effort to avoid these feelings.  People with BPD are usually pretty intelligent, very manipulative and quite resourceful and they've had a lifetime of experience honing their skill on identifying values and traits in others that will show them they are a "sure thing" so their supply of victims seems endless.  

Its a sad thing knowing that that person will forever erode their relationships from the inside out.  Even if they werent disordered its darn near impossible to take any lessons or admit any responsibility from previous relationships when you just keep overlapping.  :)oes it wear them down? you bet it does.  Ive started a discussion before about high blood pressure and BPD, and the fact that they keep moving on and continually make the same mistakes and they usually escalate over time only further cements that they are in serious internal turmoil.  I dont know if they go off the deep end per se.  But eventually, I assume that they do have a breakdown at some point.  you just may never hear about it.  Youll be long gone by then.









 

This is very interesting. My grandmother, who I believe suffered from BPD, had a nervous breakdown later in life. Your post has me thinking if the two are correlated.

I think this topic makes it a little more appreciable that what our BPDex's do/did to us is not personal- we are just another in the long line of those who enter and then leave their lives.

I had a setback yesterday and looked at her facebook page.  I couldn't see much at all, just that she had a new profile picture up, a self taken picture with some historical mining related structure in the background (her hometown (also where she is now I believe) is an old mining town).  The picture went up a few days ago and had 5 likes- 3 from mom, stepmom, and sister as well as a comment or two from the same group.  Her relationship status is hidden (even if you are friends with her on FB, it is hidden), but on one of the guys she is seeing it says they are engaged.  Another one of the guys has his profile picture of the two of them at a wedding.  I have heard that there is a third guy, but I don't know him.

I really didn't see much at all when I broke down yesterday- I had known previously about the engaged status on the one guys page, and the profile picture on the other guys. But today I have been thinking a little about the profile picture she put up... .how she is smiling in it, its a gorgeous day out behind her, etc. I wondered to myself how she could really be happy... .I know her well enough to know that, the entire 9 months I was with her, there was constantly some fallout she was dealing with because of her actions, or because of thing with her family, or health issues, not to mention the shame and memories of the past. I thought about how she lied to a lot of people as to why she was leaving town (the town I am in, the town where we dated last year), telling them she has cancer when she in fact has no such thing. I thought about the fact that she has been married before, engaged a few times on top of that, and been with tons and tons of guys all at the ripe old age of 22. And I thought about how sad it all is... .I slipped and actually had the thought, "If only I could sit down and talk with her, she would see it all and could fix her life and be the apologetic, remorseful person that I want to see for all that she did to me".  Then the depressing reality struck that she simply isn't capable of that. She is going to keep on sleeping around and dating multiple people at once.  All of her friends that she made here in my town (with the exception of the two (3?) guys she is playing currently) have turned their backs on her because they got wise to her game... .she is now working as a speech and debate coach at her old (one of them) high school after having dropped out of college last semester after getting a 2.something low GPA and being academically suspended by the university.  She is driving an out of control train and no matter how loud anyone shouts, she isn't going to hear it.

It is very sad.  I can't believe I accepted what she did or the rocky relationship we had as "normal" for as long as I did... .I don't think it helped that it was my first dating experience.  But to live that life forever? To constantly be weaving and having to maintain a web of lies so you can be romantically involved with 2-3 people at once? It is disgusting and also sad.

hi octoberfest.


yesterday in therapy i mentioned that this site has become a very important source of comfort to me. the therapist asked me why this was so. "because it depersonalizes what happened." i have been in a living hell for the past four months, and it isn't over for a time yet. but it is crucially important to the healing that will come to understand that this is an emotional disease, and that i was more an object to her than a person.

Octoberfest

This is a perfect example.  I just can't see how this can last over and over for a lifetime. It has to be exhausting managing the constant lies.

The only way they can start fresh is to move! Ironically, my ex asked me to move with her to Costa Rica during our Honeymoon stage :)

I was also wondering today why would he jeopardize his job, which he just got promoted to this year and I know would never want to lose, by starting up with a close coworker. What's gonna happen when the hit hits the fan? I mean he can cut and run from me but he will be there everyday with her. She is a director so I don't see her going anywhere soon.

Can he really be that in denial or that optimistic. I don't get it.

My Husbands work made it possible for him to essentially do that. While having the wife at home. Triangulation from the get go. And his ex wife, for when he was home with me. Just a web of deceit that goes back years and I was too blind and trusting to see it. And, at one point, he wanted to just up and move without warning. Don't know what that was about. Said he could go, I was staying put. Made no sense at all.


If there wasn't something "off" to begin with, there certainly was over time with my H. It was untenable.

Love is not "instantaneous" and it's not the crazy wild ride of BPD swept off my feet malarkey. It sure felt great at the time, but the crash? Not so good. Learned a great deal though. Really solid boundaries and you only get through if I let you in. One old wound healed in the process that I wasn't even aware was there. Hope no more surprises of that nature.

When my exUBPDgf... .

Left me again... .

In round 2 of discard... .

She admitted... .

She denied... .

Then admitted... .

And denied... .

All in one sentence... .

In reference to her disorder.

When someone... .

Can do that... .

All in one sentence... .

There is no further trying.

I had tried... .

All i could... .

Up until she left... .

To shine a light... .

On that.

As you can see... .

It made no difference.

Surely on moments where they are alone - as we all are - it must strike them that they threw away genuinely good love in among all those misplaced rebounds which were only actioned to avoid the BPD- 'being alone' element. TBH my dexBPDgf is scum as far as I'm concerned, but it might make me respect her an insy winsy bit more if I heard 'sorry'. We're all having our convalescence period now, cooling down, recovering - they do not they rebound. In their heads its to be with someone anyone  is better than being what we are now - alone, struggling - conversely caused by them!

Wow, never think they get the best deal - they're mentally ill they will experience great conflict in their lives, great suffering, destroy friendships (as SURELY BPD affects bona fide friendships) and they will never invariably last in a relationship unless s/he who they get with are super indestructibly resilient - until they break.   We will recover, we will survive.

Great topic, I have wondered this myself. All of her adult life my ex has been in a relationship of some sort. The only "real" relationship she has had was with her ex she had right before me. Otherwise it was sleeping with a married man, and various other random guys but nothing where she was in a serious relationship. Then there was me, again we were together 5 years, she was with her previous ex 6 years and prior to that in medical school so not a lot of time for relationships. I thought she would be in one already but alas she is not... .although I have heard some fascinating things about what she is doing (thank you to the guy who does both our hair, and is my friend) in regards to her sexual exploits. It makes me sad really. She is almost 44 and still very attractive and yet I think that her crazy might actually be having an effect on her finding a relationship more than just one night stands. I am pretty shocked that she has not found someone yet but she hasn't. So maybe they do get exhausted I don't know.

When my diagnosed ex wife told me she wanted to leave me she said she wanted to "be on her own,"  True, she had not ever really been without someone in her life with whom to have sex.  She was sexually active at 12.  I know this because I grew up in her neighborhood.  I have known of her for 34 years, together for 25, separated for 1.5 years.  She had many "boyfriends

and "one-nighters" while married to me.

So she wanted to leave a marriage, house, three kids... .to "be on her own."  But she has not been alone.  She was already sleeping with "Mike" when she left me.  "Mike" was a rebound from ":)anny,"  who dumped her for another strange woman.  All while married to me, mind you.  There were many before them as well.  Now she is with a new guy. 

As a therapist herself, she is well aware that she has BPD (and bipolar). Yet she will not stop acting in this very predictable way.  It must be tiring and old.  Yet, as said above, it is the life to which has grown accustomed.

Fiddlestix

fiddlestix

That is what my ex told me too! As a doctor who spent until 31 in training then in one serious long term relationship right into ours until now it seemed believable although painful as hell. She wanted the freedom to do what she wanted, without responsibility. Well she started saying this about a month before she left but we had a house, a dog, a cat and a 2 year old and I was 3 months from getting my undergraduate degree in a very challenging field. So I pushed back and said no she can't just run off for a week at a moments notice and do whatever she wanted.

So now we are almost divorced, for that reason among many others I am sure. We share 50/50 custody, she is very limited in what she can do in accordance to our parenting schedule and her work schedule, she is finding that she has less freedom at the moment anyway than if she had stayed and that makes her so angry.

All the things she wanted she isn't getting, or doing for herself. Like you said, they have to be attached somehow, even just sex. I don't think she is in a relationship but I am sure she is getting sex someplace. It is sad really.

@Wearsall

Yes thank you for calling your ex a scum because that is exactly how I feel about my ex-wife she is nothing but scum. I know she has a disorder but to bad they also know right from wrong. And to just pick up and leave a loving husband and two young boys so you can run around and screw with a couple guys at one time I'm sorry I have no Remorse for this woman. Not to mention that one of these guys is our family friend neighbor from across the street can you believe the audacity of this woman she doesn't even consider her eight-year-old son's feelings when contemplating this move.  Not to mention the fact that she has been going around telling people family, friends, that I beat on her beat on my kids and raped her. All just so our neighbor across the street could feel sorry for her to feel like she's a victim so she can get him under her power and make him her next victim. She also has totally abandon her mother sister and brother. All because she's caught in her lies so now she moves on and just forgets everyone else!

Again thank you for the courage and honesty to post that your ex is a scum because brother I feel exactly the same way about my ex she is nothing but scum!

my story is nowhere as bad as yours... .but we have small kids. they look for people like us. rescuers... .caretakers, and suck them in... .but no excuses.they know what they are doing. So did The Other. it is inexcusable. Always.

In bold.

Yes.

In bold/underlined.

The other side.

That one knows... .

All about you.

Hell on earth.

do they?  do they really "look" for us?  do they "suck us in"?  sounds sinister... .i think on their side, you're giving them too much credit and on our Non side, not requiring us to recognize and carry enough of the responsibility of what happened.

see, what i think happens, or at least this is what i saw with my xBPDgf, is she would "cast her net", so to speak.  i mean, she trolled.  she approached everybody with an oozing of seduction/sexuality/innocence/compassion/joy de vive/etc.  she offered friendship/understanding/compassion AND her phone number (cell and landline) as well as her email, to an amazing amount of people.  reminds me of cold-calling sales, actually... . lol... .  the odds are on their side that eventually someone's gonna take the bait.  i can't call that "sucking me in".  i confess to being a sucker, tho! lol

i got caught in her net.  how?  i bleeping jumped into it, that's how,  lol !  she didn't look for me, entrap me, catch me, or do anything else (initially) that i could call underhanded.  i wasn't taken as a hostage ~ oh no, i was drawn to her like a magnet!

Being a high-functioning type, my ex developed very interesting compensation and coping strategies:

1. while in the relationship he always traveled a lot by himself for a job or leisure, LDR was common in his all relationships, in seven years he lived in 4 countries without spending a year at least in two,

2. he would have a line-up of potential gfs while being in a relationship with someone,

3. he would find the reasons behind that were external - "my ex left me", "I feel so terribly alone, I do not feel love, there is no connection", "those are just sexual relationships" (but all were way too dramatic for being just that),

4. there was a vague acknowledgement: once he told me that all our (implying mine and his) relationships were built on the hurt of others and often that he needed to be alone, as he was not ready for anything (even though dating actively),

5. he also drank a lot when feeling down (most of the time),

6. liked the idea to talk to a counselor, "to vent about his life, just to talk", but never did it with the rationalization, that they are at the end humans and could give a bad advice, and since I had a certain background - he could do it with me - free of charge! Of course, I told him 1000 times that it did not work like this. Then it was another rationalization of needing a close friend with whom he could talk about everything,

7. also it seems that at the end of the day he needed that craziness and intensity - it was a good way to divert his attention from the problems inside of him - shame, guilt and self-loathing. 

So accurate it hurts.

 My DBPDexgf actually saw a therapist(s) but if she could deceive me, herself, and others, then couldn't she deceive her therapist also?

Ask someone who counsels a pwBPD, its a frustrating process.

I get what you are saying. I approached mine... .then it was the by the book BPD relationship. I was referring to the ones, like mine, who seek out the affairs... .telling the other all about how Turkish doesn't understand her, doesn't give affection, how she wants more, all about me, or kids, or life... .from her messed up pov, how mean I was (no)... .and the new caretaker was all, oh, come here, let me give you a hug, some comfort... .and then it goes. then the cycle starts again.

Thanks Turkish. I will make notes on how to "find a nice guy" for future reference once the dust settles and I am not a complete PTSD basket case. Could be a while, but will give me time to practice the simpering bit and please rescue me from myself. Develop a drug or alcohol abuse habit and I'll be set! Seems that is an effective strategy.   joking

H2o... .

All the nice guys... .

And all the nice women... .

Are here... .

On this forum... .

All around you.

I think... .

All us fellow nons would agree.  :)

I get what you are saying. I approached mine... .then it was the by the book BPD relationship. I was referring to the ones, like mine, who seek out the affairs... .telling the other all about how Turkish doesn't understand her, doesn't give affection, how she wants more, all about me, or kids, or life... .from her messed up pov, how mean I was (no)... .and the new caretaker was all, oh, come here, let me give you a hug, some comfort... .and then it goes. then the cycle starts again. [/quote]
They are the gift that keeps giving, only problem is that the gift is a pile of dog ___.

I know I have probably been bad mouthed but I am fortunate because we ha no common friends.

I agree with that. He showed up, put on a little charm, appeared really into me, I was ready to hear how great I was from a guy I thought was cute and funny, and I just did the rest. I could have walked away at the first signs of dysfunction but I went all in.

^^^ Mine pulled the full on Casanova, took him months of effort. What came after? Well... .


Waifed   My sense of humor has become so horribly warped over the intervening years, please know that I am laughing at the tragedy of that truth.

Thank you IMF, but I be taking notes anyways, my current method of slamming a person into orbit at " Hi, how are you?" I think need some refining.  :)

In hindsight I see she was being manipulative from day one.  I now understand that she expects to be left when folks get to know the real her, so she's concocted an elaborate seduction technique, very effective on someone lonely and susceptible like me, and she's had lots and lots of practice.  It's not mean or sinister mind you, she just doesn't like or care about herself, so can't believe anyone else would either, but she's heartbreakingly lonely, so the facade and the fantasy are the best she thinks she has.  On some level I did see what was going on and thought no worries, once we get closer and form the deep emotional bond I'm looking for, she won't need to play the games, because I'll be loving her for who she is.  It was a good plan, a really good plan, little did I know she could never go there, isn't wired that way, and my communication skills left a bit to be desired too.  Oh well, time for an upgrade, on both fronts.

Fromhealtotoe,

I think you nailed.  I would bet that many on here experienced you same thought process. It is logical thinking, but unfortunately doesn't apply to borderlines. It's so heartbreaking for us and for them.

Even with working through the various methods of validation and boundaries and the dynamic improving, the closer you get the worse the abuses. Perhaps if they were in therapy a couple would have a better chance. But getting a pwBPD to commit to therapy is almost impossible and they have to do it for themselves.

Hindsight is 20/20. Too late but still a good lesson to finally see clearly.

How can somebody who hates themselves truly love somebody else in a healthy way? They can't. Why did we fall in love with them? There is a lesson about ourselves in the answers to that question.

Yes, there is.  The truth is what was mirrored back to me was the good she saw in me, so what I fell in love with was myself, showing up in beautiful packaging.  Very important that, and very deceptive on her part, but necessary because she doesn't consider her real self worthy of love, but OK, I'm not mad anymore and I'll just take that version of myself she saw as a compliment, thank you.

The lesson I got was slow down, pay attention, don't ignore my gut, stay in touch with what's real for me.  She's got a whole lot more relationship experience than I do, and when she's on her game she turns heads walking into a room.  I waltzed into that hoping to be "saved" by someone who does the whole relationship thingy a lot better than I do, and after all that experience, she's picking me, a dream come true.  :)eluded of course, since she's got all that relationship experience because all of her relationships fall apart amid dysfunction.  Silly me.

And hoping to be "saved" is a crappy way to enter a relationship, and my focus has necessarily shifted to resolving core trauma, giving myself what I need from others, compassion, empathy and validation, getting my own sht together so I'm in a place where I can enter a relationship focusing on giving, from a healthy place not a people pleaser place, and not taking, because I'm already full.  Hell of a lesson, thanks BPD.

"I'm already full, I like that line!" I hope that we all become full, but not to forget there's always room for dessert aka a healthy new relationship! I like that! : )

thank you ~ that is what i'm talking about.  and it has taken me a long long  time to get to this point of awareness.

oh my gosh!  "awareness"!  :light: lightbulb moment!  i keep seeing it said here that pwBPD don't have "awareness".  now i've come full circle and am realizing my OWN lack of awareness, not only during the r/s but after, too.  no awareness of what role i played in the r/s... .  what steps i was doing in the dance... .  how i kept the ball rolling (and the pain coming) just as good as my xBPD did. 

amazing.  this site is amazing!  no matter where we are on our journey,  what phase/stage we're in, there are always others here that can relate to it, can extend a helping hand, or even just a shoulder to cry on.  :) 

My BPDex seemed incredibly lucid about himself and BPD:

1. he told me he had it

2. he told me it would be part of him forever

3. he thanked me for the information I gave him regarding the best treatment for it in our town, and said knowing himself he probably wouldn't go.

4. he said therapy made him feel bad and he felt that he'd gotten all he needed.

5. he justified his new replacement saying he was incapable of being alone (from what I gather he was/is simply using her... .), and followed up saying he was soo glad he hadn't gone to therapy and his life was just great blah blah blah. 

The END

Interesting points here, and I think you guys have done a great job.  In my view, BPD is *like* an addiction, though not one per se.  (That said, addictions in and of themselves are a regular part of the BPD experience.)  In order for someone to get better from BPD, at some point they have to feel that there is nothing worse than BPD and that they need help.  From what I've come across, people with BPD who have gotten help hit some sort of a bottom wheher they felt something, anything is better than the pain.  It was only then they were able to do the work for facing up with their demons.

Until and unless someone with BPD gets to that point, they won't get any help.  Simple as that.

Here's a bit of a radical thought... .Perhaps the only thing we can really do is stop enabling them, and rather challenge them which means letting them get to that low point... .Which is the only time they will seek real help to get better... .

In bold/italics.

And to further compound that... .

If they are surrounded by enablers... .

You know the fake friends/bad family members... .

Will that step be reached... .?

no, it won't.

'that's just the way i am' or 'you must do what you feel is right for your own happiness' when that involves wrecking other people i will have no understanding for.

That is the same conclusion that I came to. Just like an addict has to bottom out to the point that THEY feel like they have no other choice but to seek out help to change, the same is true in the case of BPD.

Why else wouldn't a pwBPD just keep doing what they've been doing? Any why should we sit idly by as their punching bag to wait for them to have an epiphany that may or may not come?

Maxen... .

You are correct.

"That's just the way I am... ."

Is exactly the line... .

My ex said to me... .

In devaluation.

Both times.

Yeah, mine too, and the way you are is unacceptable.  C-ya.

Yes the basic tenant of recovery from any addiction (hurts, hang ups, habits: from Celebrate Recovery). Just like an addict a pwBPD must get to a point where their PAIN from there actions is greater than their FEAR of of exposing themselves and seeking help. MY BPDxw actually told me when I suggested marriage counseling (I didn't know about her infidelities or BPD at the time) "I don't want to see a counselor because you'll see just how Fu**ed up I am" looking back I remember seeing true FEAR in her face. Very Sad. I don't know how she can live with herself!  Besides as someone else mentioned on this thread that pwBPD move on to new people who VALIDATE their manipulative Bull***t and RESCUE them that they never have to hit ROCK BOTTOM or deal with PAIN or the consequences of THEIR actions!

My BPDxw left such a trail of destruction it's sickening. But she moves on and doesn't have to deal with aftermath, all her VICTIMS are left to pick up the broken pieces and try to rebuild their lives.

But WE ARE STRONG:

"I will praise YOU in this storm, because you are who YOU are who YOU are no matter where I am"... .Casting Crowns

That is why suicide rates are higher among borderlines.


A borderline doesn't get over it, it just gets repressed and then shows up later as impulsive behavior, rage, and all the other 'features' of the disorder, making the next relationship nastier than the last one. There is an opportunity to get off it, get real and heal, but the emotions are just too strong, and without the ability to self-soothe, it is just too painful, along with the fear of abandonment, a borderline's primary fear, which they are positive will happen if they open up and show who they really are; a borderline doesn't like herself, why would anyone else?  And we can see what is going on but that same repression makes it so the borderline can't.  Guaranteed continual pain and no idea why; hell on earth.  There's an opportunity to be grateful that we can pick up the pieces and rebuild our lives, where a borderline is surrounded by pieces and could never build one, let alone rebuild.

Not to minimize our pain, but a borderline's is worse, and it peeks out during the quiet times when they are alone, every time.

Agree with you on that. And at the same time, I find the hypocrisy or the twisted thinking of the black and white right to cheat on the partner and then tell bald faced lies while denying the fact in the face of the evidence something for which my empathy cup doth no longer runneth over. That being said, you can slap the Scarlet A on me for thoughts of the carnal variety that were not directed at my husband. But then again, he rejects me completely anyways and emotionally this marriage is a black hole. And I won't be initiating either, that's for darn sure.

PD Love dies when you refuse to be abused. Interesting how that works. Mind you, died on my end as well. Just wish he would divorce me. I am such a horrible human being and a lousy wife after all. 

I'm not sure their love dies, but they are left not knowing what to do when you stop dancing the dance of dysfunction.  They've never known anything else in their lives... .the thought that there could be something else, something better... .well, some will refuse to believe there is something else, and find someone else to dance willing to dance with them. 

Hi fromheeltoheal.  In a sense I feel like my BPDex reached this point with me, and his fear materialized.  He poured himself out to me (I was pretty much a complete stranger to him)... .I couldn't handle what he told me (nor the way he told me), and how unstable he was, it triggered some insane stuff inside of me, realizations of past relationships, etc. and I put space between us.  I'm still feeling guilty about having rejected a borderline who opened up, admitted to who and what he was.  I think he did want help though, but I always questionned whether he was being manipulative.  If anything, he just didn't know how to go about getting help, and couldn't bring himself to go to therapy.  I guess my only consolation is that I (we) are not equipped to truly help them get better.  We are not professionals, willing to dedicate our life to making this person get better. That's what mental health professionals are there for.  When I told him that, he responded "but they're strangers" - all I could think of was: and who the hell do you think I am?... .

Scary thought.

Still feel horrible though. Hate the disorder. Too many painful memories . Been too much. Past the point of patience. What's left of my heart wouldn't interest a starving a rat.

Me too!

Agreed, and the reason why I keep harping on  lol

Unfortunately... .this is my conclusion as well :-(

They sure can do that.  I watched it happen right in front of my eyes.  Before my exwBPD moved out she sucked in a casual friend of mine who is quite over weight and was very lonely.  The perfect target.  She used him for a few months and then chewed him up and spit him out.  A few weeks after she moved out and he was dating her, I TOLD him this is what was going to happen to him and he STILL went back for more.   Now, he calls her "trailer trash" and hates her guts.   LOL

When she was luring him in, I told her how cruel that was to just use someone like that.  She never reacted to that statement at all.  It was like I was speaking Martian or something.

Yep, hypocrisy is a great word for it; I'm sorry you're still in the middle of it, and I can understand how you're fresh out of empathy.  Focusing more on understanding than empathy, I find it fascinating that my borderline ex could construct such an elaborate web of cognitive distortions and denial that made it completely OK for her to go screw a few guys, but I as much as looked at another woman and the rage volcano erupted again.  I think it was the combination of:

1. She thought she was the most awesome woman in the universe, she had to, since the alternative was complete trash in her black and white world.

2. She used sex as a means to soothe, she didn't make love she fcked, horizontal aerobics, so that doesn't count as cheating.

3. She was entitled because "the woman a man shares a bed with controls his world" was a primary belief, yet she still wondered why all her boyfriends left her completely pissed off.

4. Her lack of object constancy made it such that when I wasn't with her I didn't exist.

5. It had to be my fault and the lies had to come quickly and with great force, otherwise she'd have to acknowledge wrongdoing, in which case the floodgates would open and her head would explode.

That's the best sense I can make of it, fascinating to try and get my head around.


Yep, and the biggest questions moving forward is why did I mistake that for 'love' to begin with, and why did I put up with what I did?

That is very interesting unhooking, I never got anywhere near that far with mine, and I'm curious what he said, if you're comfortable sharing.  After a few glasses of wine mine would say 'I've hurt a lot of people' and 'I've done a lot of bad things" with a very crappy look on her face, but I wasn't into pressing for details, mostly because it was exes she was talking about; I didn't ask, and I really didn't want to hear it at the time.  In hindsight it would have been very telling.

He said he lies to everyone all the time, doesn't have a sense of identity, doesn't know who he is, has horrible dark thoughts, cuts himself, made totally unsolicited confessions about a brutal past, and also said that its hurtful to be with him (this seems to be a common phrase with BPDers from what I gather).  He did say that he loves people though. In retrospect what he was doing (whether on purpose or not) was way over the top dramatic, and totally alienating.  I mean, he might as well have told me he eats little kittens for breakfast.

hi, not to call you out at all, just want to highlight the kind of language that those of us that have been hurt tend to use and that, i believe, keeps us in a cycle of suffering.  for example, i ignored most, if not all, of my BPDx's  red-flag . and to go with your metaphor, i cannot be a "target" unless i'm wearing a "bullseye" that i refuse to take off. and all of that stuff perpetuates my sense of being a "victim"... .

here is an interesting video by sam vaknin, author of "malignant self-love":

"N-Magnet:  Narcissist's Ideal Victim? 

www.youtube.com/watch?v=cv5VncdRqYs

and here is part of what he said that completely hit home and sums it up for me:

"were u victimized in ALL of your relationships whether romantic and intimate, or not?  if you chose your partners badly or if u did not extricate yourself post-haste once you had been mistreated  it must have been your doing.  magnets are passive.  they have no judgment and cannot exert control over their destiny.  they are a bad [?].   human beings are not inert.   they are not helpless mindless substances like magnets. human beings are aware of what they're doing.  they can distinguish right from wrong.  they can and do act upon information.  they exercise judgment.  bad  relationships, however harrowing,  constitute opportunities  to learn lessons and if you fail to do that you have no one to blame but yourself".

Thanks unhooking; mine didn't say those things, but did them all.

I was reading recently about vulnerability, the lengths humans will go to to avoid expressing it, and how expressing it openly is where the juice in life is found.  One popular way of avoiding vulnerability is just to overshare too much, too soon, before a relationship is really built.  It shocks people and although it sounds vulnerable, it ends up putting distance between people, and that's ordered people.

This made me think of something my BPDex once told me.  We met in a bar, and later he told me he noticed that I was taking care of an incredibly intoxicated friend.  He probably thought... .hmmm, there's an attractive co-dependent for me :)  So yes, they do "look" for us.

This thread, titled A BPD's "Insanity" of a Love Life, has about 20 times the views of the average thread on this board.  Not very scientific, but pretty telling as to the opinion of people leaving someone they think exhibits BPD traits, and landing on this site in search of pain relief.  Insanity anyone?

The X and I were youth mentors. My secondary goal of doing it was to connect with like valued people... .looking for a wife, basically. Boy did I mess that one up!

BLINK! Boy oh boy did a light bulb turn on when I read this. My EXperience EXactly. Thanx Heel! |iiii

That really hits home! My Ex told me so much of his past that he was ashamed of, so I thought wow he is letting me in... .but really he was just distracting me by opening about something he's probably been telling people for awhile. This was a way to keep me from really knowing him. : ( I still remember him telling me, "I don't really know "my name," you just show me who you think I want you to be." He was expressing his frustration with our relationship and how much he wanted to really fall in love with me not just love me. If that wasn't projection I don't know what is!

No one can "suck" us into a relationship without our permission.

If we talk about BPD patterns of relationships we should also look at our own. For me personally, this was not my first BPD rodeo! There is/was something very innate in me that sort out a person like my ex/ex's.

So yes my ex's love life had an essence of insanity and so did mine.

My ex was also really open about her past in the beginning. Thats why I thought I was really special to her (because she told me she was never that open about her past before).

Thing was that only in the beginning she was that open. After she was always closed off and distant. In one of our final discussions at the end of our relationsship I explained to her that we never went to the core. She admitted she thought she could never do that with anyone. And I felt sorry for her... .

Then when I found out about the rebound I got the statement that he COULD go to the core with her and she CAN be very open with him. That really hit me hard as people tell me I am really easy to talk with and give good advice .

That's the thing... .The rebound is either way better than us, or we're better than the rebound. But it's just manipulation. He told me the rebound didn't know about all he had told me... .But did that make me feel any better? No. Because he also told me he lies... .So what am I to believe, and he told me he was trying to really make it work with the rebound.  We all lose. An emotionally mature person who truly wants to try and make something work would be honest with the person they want to make it work with at the appropriate time, and would be taking steps to help himself. 

Interesting that she closed off after.  He went into crisis mode and blamed it on having been too open about himself. Read: we're done opening up here.

I feel you. My mechanism to get a reaction or öpenness" is to provocate. Well that didnt work so I went crazy sometimes. In the end it was my "bashing" that killed our relationship?

And at first I even believed it! passive aggresive is such a powerfull way to destroy someone.

Mr new is a bit of a narcissist so I think he will have a hard time as well... .

Wrong. If Mr. New is a narcissist he will have a better time of it. Why? Because he doesn't really care. They last longer with them don'tcha know.  

Really? Well time will tell.

I saw a gal I've known for a while the other week, and saw a bunch of borderline traits.  She'd always seemed a little 'off' to me, but now with the framework I've gleaned here I can put a name on it.  And I'm trying to be careful and not put every flamboyant gal I meet in the BPD box, no sense being paranoid.

Anyway, she did the same thing my borderline ex did: she's got an uncanny ability to make it seem she's being open, honest and vulnerable, but if you look and listen carefully, she's not really opening up much, but definitely inviting me to.  Interesting.  I say it's a borderline's need to attach that motivates them to get through someone's boundaries quickly, the two I know are very good at it, good thing I've grown a bit.  Simple focus: what do I want and need, and can these gals meet that?  Nope.

*mod*

This thread has reached its 4 page limit so we have lock it up.

Here's a thread that piggybacks on the "insanity" of a relationship like this and why they tend to play out like they do. 

 Your ex was emotionally immature. Were you? Yes? No?  (https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=184487.msg12124774#msg12124774)