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Author Topic: COMMUNICATION: How to stop circular arguments  (Read 20073 times)
united for now
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« on: May 03, 2010, 11:22:26 AM »

We've all been in them - those horrible arguments discussions. You know, the ones that make you want to

They go round and round and round.
Your SO doesn't even make sense half the time.
You're not even sure what you are arguing about  rolleyes
They can go on for hours and hours.
No one ever wins them.
Both people get hurt by them.

You want to pull your hair out  barfy

Why do they happen?
Cause our partners are mentally ill and have difficulty expressing themselves in clear enough fashion for us to understand.
Cause our partners are mentally ill and feelings = facts to them.
Cause our partners are mentally ill and they need to control what they can - us.
Cause our partners are mentally ill and can't stand to lose.

Cause we like to "be right" too.
Cause we can't let it go either.
Cause we need to prove our point.
Cause we are too afraid to walk away from the argument.
Cause we want to hurt them back.
Cause we feel trapped - either literally or emotionally.
Cause we hope that we can change their minds.
Cause we hope that we can get them to understand.
Cause we are co-dependent and need to "fix" them and their flawed way of thinking.

How do we stop them?
By taking control of the only thing you can - yourself.

That means that you recognize what is happening - a pointless argument that is going badly and that needs to end - then finding the courage/strength/attitude to  take action and take a TIME OUT .
~ You don't wait to win or lose. It's not a competition.
~ You don't worry about how they will respond. This is about protecting yourself - not them.
~ You don't hope that it will end soon. You are not a helpless victim.
~ You don't fear their anger. You have a right to protect yourself from harm.

Write this on something and read it 10 times a day till you firmly get it.
* Don't argue
* Don't defend
* Don't justify
* Don't explain
* Don't counter attack
* Take care of yourself and take a time out.


Do you feel strong enough to stop the argument?

What do you fear if you don't?



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Change your perceptions and you change your life.  Nothing changes without changes




dados76
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« Reply #1 on: May 03, 2010, 12:15:12 PM »

most of the time.. if R and i get stuck going round and round.. its bc hes trying to get validation.. so he keeps saying the same thing.. phrased different until that happens.. sometimes.. or adding more and more reasons why he feels hit

i think.. validating is just a skill that takes a lot of practice.. and a lot of willingness to use.. not willing to learn to validate.. probably not going to be a real fun relationship for the person w/bpd or the person with them..

we dont have to many 'discussions' like that tho.. hes getting a lot better at saying if he needs a minute to figure out how to explain what is going on.. and what is happening
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Nutts45
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« Reply #2 on: May 03, 2010, 12:27:37 PM »

UFN I wanted to say how lucky we are you have remained to guide us.  I love the wisdom that you give in your post.

Quote
That means that you recognize what is happening - a pointless argument that is going badly and that needs to end - then finding the courage/strength/attitude to  take action and take a  TIME OUT .
~ You don't wait to win or lose. It's not a competition.
~ You don't worry about how they will respond. This is about protecting yourself - not them.
~ You don't hope that it will end soon. You are not a helpless victim.
~ You don't fear their anger. You have a right to protect yourself from harm.

Write this on something and read it 10 times a day till you firmly get it.
* Don't argue
* Don't defend
* Don't justify
* Don't explain
* Don't counter attack
* Take care of yourself and take a time out.


Do you feel strong enough to stop the argument?

What do you fear if you don't?

I am taking it a step up, I am no longer leaving to take a break.  He can work with this with his T.  I don't know if it is the right way but I have been doing these tool and it works..if I leave.  He knows after the fact this what he does is not right...time to step it up...your talking to a T..if he can't help you find someone who can.  

I don't leave my house when others have their panties in a wad...I am not doing it anymore because my H does.  If I have to leave because I fear that he can't control himself or leave me alone when I no longer want to participate in a conversation than I don't need to live here anymore.

D*mn..guess I am back to my old self.  But I wouldn't be at this point were for working on these tools.  Taking breaks and disengaging as released me of my fog.  

I
* Don't argue
* Don't defend
* Don't justify
* Don't explain
* Don't counter attack


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MyLife
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« Reply #3 on: May 03, 2010, 12:33:37 PM »


Write this on something and read it 10 times a day till you firmly get it.
* Don't argue
* Don't defend
* Don't justify
* Don't explain
* Don't counter attack
* Take care of yourself and take a time out.

J.A.D.E. =
don't need to:

Justify
Argue
Defend
Explain

Thank you for the reminder UFN.
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..."In order to stop this hurting I must reach a point of contentment within myself.  And that will take some reaching."
united for now
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« Reply #4 on: May 03, 2010, 12:36:54 PM »

most of the time.. if R and i get stuck going round and round.. its bc hes trying to get validation.. so he keeps saying the same thing.. phrased different until that happens.. sometimes.. or adding more and more reasons why he feels hit

i think.. validating is just a skill that takes a lot of practice.. and a lot of willingness to use.. not willing to learn to validate.. probably not going to be a real fun relationship for the person w/bpd or the person with them..

we dont have to many 'discussions' like that tho.. hes getting a lot better at saying if he needs a minute to figure out how to explain what is going on.. and what is happening

An excellent point dados  Doing the right thing

Validation can make a difference...I've seen it happen time after time.


I just worry that people tend to stick around thinking they can validate their way out of an argument and taking abuse the whole time. Validation is one tool that can build closeness and trust - yet it should never be done at the price of abuse  cry


Auspicious has a great saying I like to use:
Quote

Boundaries protect us - but validation connects us. 
Both have their time and place...sometimes in the same conversation.

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Change your perceptions and you change your life.  Nothing changes without changes


dados76
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« Reply #5 on: May 03, 2010, 12:51:08 PM »

Quote
I just worry that people tend to stick around thinking they can validate their way out of an argument and taking abuse the whole time. Validation is one tool that can build closeness and trust - yet it should never be done at the price of abuse 

true.. if things get too heated.. then its time for a break.. most of the time.. things dont get to that point.. between us.. both R and i are pretty good about taking time out to cool off now.. before things get too intense.. definitely dont think anybody should stick around to get abused.. validating usually happens before theres a argument.. good prevention..

lol helps kind of.. english aint my first language.. so i get that.. sometimes it takes a few times using different words to get your point across.. even when speaking the same language out loud.. sometimes emotionally.. takes a few tries to get the point across..
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Checkmate
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« Reply #6 on: May 03, 2010, 01:52:52 PM »

I no longer worry about right or wrong. I no longer worry about entitlement. I gave up on self-righteousness a while back.

I hate to argue. I hate it with a passion a pointless arguement.

So, I just walk away now. Even have a boundary in place to deal with this one.

"I will not allow my self to be dragged into pointless conversations/arguments that go round and round and never get any where."

I think I used to worry about being falsely acccused of something. I really do not like being told I've done something when I haven't.
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jardin
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« Reply #7 on: May 03, 2010, 02:23:52 PM »

I had to walk away this weekend for a bit.  She is just so angry at everything.  Though I understand why and I understand she has every right to be, a lot of the anger is misdirected square at me.  For asking the wrong question, for thinking the wrong thought, for caring about her wellbeing...and then minutes later for not being around more.  We started to get into it about a question I asked.  She interpreted it one way, I meant it a complete other.  I stated one time why I asked it and she continued to get very angry and repeated why she was upset.  I made one attempt at validation and didn't even get the sentence out.  And that was it.  I just let it drop.  We sat in silence the entire way home.  I haven't talked to her since because she has gone silent/invisible.   

On the one hand it is good to not be triggered into defending myself anymore; on the other, it is hard to walk away when I do feel like any form of self expression for her right now may be healthy.  I know fully why she is on edge and upset - it's hard to balance knowing that and allowing her to get some of it out - and my own health.  I just don't want to be the punching bag though. Everytime I allow it it just seems to fuel her negative view of me.  She both believes what she says and sees me stick around.  It's just not ok from any persepctive.  Ugh.   
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Our integrity sells for so little, but it is all we really have.  It is the very last inch of us.  And within that inch, we are free. - Valerie's Letter


LvnNHell
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« Reply #8 on: May 03, 2010, 02:30:06 PM »


Write this on something and read it 10 times a day till you firmly get it.
* Don't argue
* Don't defend
* Don't justify
* Don't explain
* Don't counter attack
* Take care of yourself and take a time out.


OK - I see what the "Don'ts" are.  But, what do we do?  My wife baits and tries to force me into arguments all the time.  When I get accused of things I didn't do, what do I do?  When she sends me an email with a dozen different accusations, or questions posed to start an argument, what do I do?

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dados76
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« Reply #9 on: May 03, 2010, 02:36:17 PM »

ignore it.. if you know its bait.. dont bite.. do something else..
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