She doesn't want me to learn about boundaries from her DBT clinic.

[flourdust]

So, I've previously posted about my wife's very strong negative reactions to my setting boundaries for the first time.

And I've posted about my concerns that her DBT program isn't working.

Today, these two concerns met, hooked up, and had a baby.

The DBT program offers a monthly family education night. Family and partners of the client meet with staff from the clinic (without their pwBPDs). There's a rotation series of topics ("What is DBT", "What is validation", etc.) and a Q&A session. I've attended several of the sessions and found them helpful. Their goal is to both teach us about what the clients are learning in DBT and also teach us relevant skills that can help, such as validation and crisis management.

However, they make it the choice of the client if family members are invited. The clients get sign-up sheets which they can give to us, if they are so inclined. Today, for the first time, my wife did not give me the sign-up sheet. She didn't even tell me the meeting was happening (although I knew about it because they had given us a list of upcoming dates).

The topic for tonight's meeting? Boundaries.

I asked her about it this morning. She was evasive as only a pwBPD can be. ("Am I going to tonight's program?" "I can't answer that. That's not a yes/no question." ":)o you want me to go?" "That's an entirely different set of issues!" But I did eventually pull out from her that she didn't want me to go, and she hadn't given me the sign-up form deliberately. She told me that the topic was boundaries, and I'm already wrong about boundaries, and I always get wrong information from these sessions that she has to correct.

Now, the last conversation we had about boundaries was when she admitted that her T had told her I was right about boundaries. The way she put it was "My T smacked me down hard about your boundaries." And although she is extremely paranoid about these sessions and wants to debrief and review my notes right after I come back from one, that's not the same as me coming backs with a head stuffed full of misinformation.

So, I told her I really wanted to go, but I wouldn't, because she (the client) didn't want me there. But I don't know if that was the right choice. And I really want to confront her about this later and tell her how disappointed I am with her actions. I could use some advice on what I should do about this -- go to the session despite her? Confront her? Let it go?

And this of course revitalizes my worries that she's not getting what she needs out of this DBT program, and that I should push to get her into a different group. Any wise perspectives on this would be welcome.

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[babyducks]

Hi flourdust,

My partner was in DBT therapy for two years.   My take is that the results didn't start to pay off for a while.  All together my partner has been in therapy for nine years.   Progress came slowly.    It was frustrating and discouraging from time to time.   And that was just for me.   I can't imagine what she was going through as she grappled with her issues.         

So, I told her I really wanted to go, but I wouldn't, because she (the client) didn't want me there. But I don't know if that was the right choice. And I really want to confront her about this later and tell her how disappointed I am with her actions. I could use some advice on what I should do about this -- go to the session despite her? Confront her? Let it go?

I would not go to the session despite her, that's boundary busting.   I would also hesitate to confront her.   Somehow, confront seems like a hard word to me.   I think expressing your disappointment in a loving, caring way, might be more productive to opening lines of communication.   

I have to believe my partner is responsible for her own mental health decisions and choices.  I can support, I can listen,  I can respectfully disagree but in the end the what she does, and doesn't do, is up to her.    I want to be in ~partnership~ with her, working with her to make better decisions.   Which means sometimes I really need to put on my best listening skills.    Especially when she is struggling with something.

And this of course revitalizes my worries that she's not getting what she needs out of this DBT program, and that I should push to get her into a different group. Any wise perspectives on this would be welcome.

From your other post you mentioned that she is in the DBT program three days a week for three hours a day, and sees an individual therapist.   It seems to me that her therapist would be the best qualified to judge if she needs to change programs.  

my suggestion would be start to separate your 'work'  and her 'work'.   Use the Lessons here (in the box on the right)  and whatever other support you have but allow her program to be hers for now.   that avoids conflict developing around therapy, which should be a safe place.

while it's frustrating to let things develop (or not) at their own pace, I am reminded of something another member said here

"It is not within my power to orchestrate the outcome... ."


'ducks

[flourdust]

Well, you're not necessarily wrong, but things have progressed anyway.

This afternoon, she called me up just before I had to go into a meeting. I said I didn't have much time, but she started a long ramble accusatory rant anyway ... .some stuff about our daughter forgetting her glasses, and if I was going to go to this meeting, that would be another night where she would have to parent alone, and other things. I reminded her that I needed to get off the phone and asked if I should take care of dinner. She exploded, because how dare I ask about dinner instead of solving all her problems. I hung up.

She sent me a long text chewing me out and saying I should get a babysitter because she's leaving us. (She likes to threaten to leave all the time. I ignore it.) And something about how putting myself first and doing self-care is all about hurting her. At that point, I decided I was going to go to the meeting regardless of her desires. I told her so, gently but firmly, in a text, and said she could forward any questions she had. She sent me six very long questions for the session, all phrased as if from my perspective, which was odd.

I did go to the session, and I found it quite helpful. I pushed on the topic of how she is weaponizing this program instead of using it, and the leader there suggested that I could ask for a release of information form to begin the process of having a family session with the counselor (assuming my wife agrees) to look at her goals and outcomes to see if a therapeutic change is needed. He also said that some people need to be in the program for a much longer time.

When I got home, my wife was still pissed and had several arguments/accusations/rants with me, which culminated in me deciding to sleep in a separate room (again).

You're right that this is her "work" and I can't orchestrate the outcome. On the other hand, I don't have the patience or time to give her two more years with the status quo. Even if I was willing to tolerate her treatment indefinitely, she's doing real damage to our daughter with her behavior.

This has to start turning around SOON, or I'm ending it. So, jumping in to meddle with her DBT program may not be effective, but I figure it's worth one last shot.

[unicorn2014]

I asked her about it this morning. She was evasive as only a pwBPD can be. ("Am I going to tonight's program?" "I can't answer that. That's not a yes/no question." ":)o you want me to go?" "That's an entirely different set of issues!" But I did eventually pull out from her that she didn't want me to go, and she hadn't given me the sign-up form deliberately. She told me that the topic was boundaries, and I'm already wrong about boundaries, and I always get wrong information from these sessions that she has to correct.

Hi flour dust, I'm sorry you're going through this, and thank you for posting this, it was very helpful for me. I've also heard similar answers when I've asked direct questions, such as "its not a zero and one equation". Its useful to know that those are borderline responses. Although I can't give you specific advice for your situation as I'm new to the staying board, I can say I think you can trust your instincts as they seem to be on the mark. Good luck. 

[flourdust]

So, we talked Tuesday night, and it went surprisingly well. First, we talked about the topic she's been passive-aggressively complaining about for the last two months -- how she doesn't feel she can handle taking care of our daughter after school, and how she doesn't have any time for herself. I had brought a few suggestions that might give her some more personal time, but she waved them away. I validated her feelings of frustration and abandonment. She seemed receptive, and then I changed the subject -- and the really amazing part was that she let me! Usually, she's like a dog with a bone with one of these topics.

So we talked about the DBT education session I went to, and that also went well, although she deflected anything I brought up that could involve her making some changes. She was suddenly in a good mood and reverted (as she often does) to this cheerful baby-talk tone. I used to find it kind of charming; now that I know about the emotional maturity of BPD, it comes across as creepy.

Anyway, her good mood lasted for 22 hours, until I had to deliver some bad news. Back to the guest bedroom for me last night!

I'm going to start another thread to talk about her deflection behaviors.