Need help now

[Bill68]

Wife and daughter arguing. Wife saying she can't do this anymore. Losing it.  Daughter says she can't go to therapy    Melt downs every night    Two years, multiple meds.  Nothing helps.  What do I do?

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[Bright Day Mom]

Don't lose hope, there is help and you've come to the right place.  There are many families just like yours who have lived similar circumstances.  How old is your daughter?

There are many lessons / tools to the right that can assist you in communication.  Once the arguing cycle is broken, people can then have a conversation and actually be heard.  You said two years and still no improvement... .imagine how your daughter must feel? 

Are you close with your D?  If so, maybe you could take her out and spend some one-on-one time together.  Let her know you are there for her and are not going to quit until she is progressing on the right track.  Whether it be the family enter family counseling, med changes, whatever it will take so she can live a happy, peaceful life because she deserves it.

[Lollypop]

Hi there bill68

It's a hard place we're in Bill. I don't have those regular meltdowns anymore though. I know how it is. I used to reel around in this chaotic place, I used to immediately react to everything my BPDs25 did or said. I tried everything to make him behave how I wanted him to. This would be from about 15.  I shouted, cried, manipulated, ignored, stalked, bullied. I tried everything I knew to get him to change and all I achieved was my total exhaustion and a very very unhappy family.

My son didn't get dx until he was 24. Since that time I've been on this forum ever since. My BPDs returned him mid-Dec after a crisis and I decided I needed to prioritise my focus.

Change myself first, learning validation skills and get a better understanding of BPD.

I took advice here. I've managed to significantly improve relationships across my family by focussing on providing a stable, loving and supportive environment. It took time Bill, for my BPDs to trust us not to react. It took time for my husband to see that it was working (he's been resistant to this approach). Amazingly, like magic, we no longer react to BPDs and his decisions anymore. We have still a lot more to learn but I'm feeling positive for the first time in years.

How old is your daughter?

What's your daughter like?

Do you have other children living at home?

Take care of yourself bill, and your wife.

[Bill68]

My daughter is an only child and is seventeen.  She is highly intelligent, very artistic (like her mother) and has a social awareness of right and wrong.  She is very opinionated about the rights of minoritys (which I'm proud of) and is very paranoid of someone breaking into the house and hurting her, which is confusing because she says she wants to die. She has all of the symptoms of BPD except for permiscuios sex.  We struggle to get her to leave house. Yesterday her and my wife had a blowout. Daughter told my wife she wished she died when she fell down the stairs a week ago, my wife told her that if she didn't want her around she should leave. Long story short, after a few hours things calmed down and we watched movies together.

The whole situation is draining on all of us, I'm just burnt. I try to be the calm one, although I lose my temper once and awhile which doesn't help.

Just lost on what to do next.   

[lbjnltx]

Hi Bill,

I was in the same place as your wife is.  It got to the point where I told my husband "it's either her or me" because I was absolutely miserable and developing a full blown case of anxiety.  My heart would start to race as soon as I opened my eyes and became conscious of the reality of my life each morning. 

I learned here on this site that there were lots of things I needed to learn and change if I wanted it to be different... .if I wanted my life and my daughter's life to be different.  I just couldn't get enough breathing room to have the mental and emotional capacity to learn.  I figured out that I needed to set boundaries to create that safe space for learning and at the same time stop the cycle of conflict.  Things had to change and I had to be the one to change them.

Does this sound like something your wife is dealing with too?

lbj

[Bill68]

Exactly like her. It is to the point that some of the issues are with my wife. She is so gun shy that she reacts to "things" that aren't there. My daughter sometime asks a simple question and she reacts as if daughter was being rude or demanding when she wasn't which starts the whole thing all over again. And if I say something to her she tells me "your not here with her 24/7 and I don't know ". Which is true, I'm the only one in the house that works.   So I am not always home. Daughter says I side with my wife all the time and my wife says I don't know what it's like. I'm the bad guy all the time 


Two years of peace keeping is taking its toll. I'm not looking for sympathy just hope and suggestions.

[lbjnltx]

Validating the emotions behind each of their struggles is a safe thing to do for you and them Bill.  What you don't want to do is be part of a drama triangle.  You can read more about that here: Know Good vs. Bad Triangulation



Would your wife be willing to read the info we have on Value Based Boundaries? Do you protect yourself with your own set boundaries? Would she be open to learning about BPD and improving her communication skills in order to improve her relationship with your daughter and improve the home environment?

Do you guys attend therapy as a family or just your d alone?

[Gorges]

Thanks for posting, now I understand my husband's perspective.  I have felt very hurt and alone when my daughter would say horrible things to me and my husband would be a bystander to this abuse.   

[Bill68]

It's been a while since I've logged on. Things are up and down. My wife and d still having massive swings from inseparable to complete blowout. Wife says she has to get away and D thinks that means she does not care. Crying, screaming and a whole lot of yelling.  I'm still trying to keep the piece but think my wife and D getting worse. Tonight my wife did go out with a friend for a little while and D only text her a few times ( usually it's 50+ times with I need you and then I hate you) so I guess it's a small win. These swings are driving me crazy because I don't know what to do. I guess I needed to vent a little.  Anybody have experience with Wellbutrin? That's the latest med

[Bright Day Mom]

I hear your pain... .trying to keep the peace is exhausting.  The tools on this site are a great place to start educating yourself and spouse on effective communication.  We used to have terrible screaming matches until I learned not to engage and to be a better listener / communicator.  Think about it, throwing fuel on the fire? Not such  a great idea.

It is good your wife was able to get out for a bit with her friends. It is difficult being a stay at home mom; and yes, I know it is also difficult being a sole provider too. 

Meds are tricky, what works for one doesn't necessarily have the same effect on someone else. Wellbutrin was one of the earlier meds for my D and was not effective.  Is your D on mood stabilizers?  We started seeing a big difference with her once her Lithium level was therapeutic and /Seroquel was added to the mix. 

Family sessions have also been a great tool. We have a rule, what happens in session stays in session.  This way we have the discussion with the assistance of a therapist, deal with any on-going issues and then we move on, water under the bridge.

[ArleighBurke]

You say your daughter may have BPD. What about your wife?

Is it possible to "teach" your wife validation skills? Is it possible to tell your wife about bpdfamily.com being a resource to help your daughter. Then you and her could learn together how to manage your daughter. (If your wife has BPD then she may also learn a few things about herself... .)

Is it possible to frame it so that you can teach your daughter about validation to help "deal with mum"?

The book "The High Conflict Couple" is also a good book. It's about husband-wife relationships but could easily be about parent-child. It teaches validation skills and all the normal "BPD" type communication skills - but nowhere in the book does it mention "BPD or ":)BT".

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[Gorges]

Our experience with wellbutrin is that it made my daughter very mean.   I also was on it once.  I was suffering from exhaustion and my cousin (an nurse practitioner) suggested that it might be depression.  After a few weeks on wellbutrin I was sleeping through the night and my energy was back to normal, but I did get edgy.   I don't think this happens with everyone but it can be a side effect.

My husband probably feels that he is in the same situation.  But, honestly, my daughter talks to me more, asks for me more, so I am the one to say "no" and get involved.

My daughter is out of the house now (18 years old and still verbally abusive so I asked her to leave) and my husband needs to figure out where he stands with our marriage.  I am realizing I need to distance myself from my daughter with the conservations and talking to her about her problems, it eventually leads to conflict.  I am to the point where I don't want her to be close to me emotionally or physically because it could lead to an explosion.   

[need a break]

It's been a while since I've logged on. Things are up and down. My wife and d still having massive swings from inseparable to complete blowout. Wife says she has to get away and D thinks that means she does not care. Crying, screaming and a whole lot of yelling.  I'm still trying to keep the piece but think my wife and D getting worse. Tonight my wife did go out with a friend for a little while and D only text her a few times ( usually it's 50+ times with I need you and then I hate you) so I guess it's a small win. These swings are driving me crazy because I don't know what to do. I guess I needed to vent a little.  Anybody have experience with Wellbutrin? That's the latest med
Although all medications are subjective. It made my daughter VERY aggressive. Wellbutrin is not good for personality disorders, bi polar, or of course BPD.
Does your D see a psychiatrist?   Sounds like she needs a mood stabilizer.
I have been going down this road for about 17 years.  When she was first diagnosed I assumed the medical community knew what they were doing as far as meds went.
I learned I had to question, research and follow up with everything.
Meds may calm things down. The road is long and i wish you the best of luck
 

[Lollypop]

very paranoid of someone breaking into the house and hurting her

She has all of the symptoms of BPD except for permiscuios sex

My bods25 lived in fear of lots of things. He slept with a tree saw next to his bed for a while too as he was convinced somebody would hurt him. I found out and removed the saw as I didn't feel safe as he was also taking drugs.

He's not promiscuous. I wonder if it's different for males than females.

My son doesn't rage, and is a quiet BPD. He internalises and it's difficult to know how he's feeling. I wonder if your daughter may be similar?

You've said you are at a loss at to know what to do.

I chose to change myself, model behaviours I want to see in my family, including my husband. My husband is "old school", has struggled to understand and has been extremely reactive. I understand how you feel. I felt it was up to me to take control for all of us. To end the cycle I got knowledge of BPD, I've learnt skills and then demonstrated them to the others. Slowly, things have improved. It's taken a long time for my husband to finally not be sarcastic or angry, the positive developments in our family relationships have helped him understand what I've been doing.

Be strong Bill.

are any of you in any therapy or "outside" have support?

What's your own priority ?

[Bill68]

First I want to say wow! The response to my posts and feedback is helpful and very comforting. I thank all of you who replayed and to those who read it as well. There have been many posts with suggestions and questions. It's all good "stuff" and my head is spinning as to how/what to reply. What I can say is that my wife talks a lot to my daughters tharipist which helps a little. To get her to talk about her reactions and my situation is difficult because she keeps focusing on her situation, which I truly understand and appreciate, and not wanting to fuel her fire just keep my feelings to myself. I know that's not good. I actually think some of the tension is typical mother/daughter teen tension but with d's BPD mixed in. On a positive note my daughter acknowledges her issues and says she wants to change, but doesn't know how. When we suggest doing the thinks her tharipist says she states it does not help   I'm trying to take it all in and formulate a plan of  action so feedback is very helpful. Thanks again and keep replying if you can/want.

On a personal note I'm getting very burnt/frustrated because I work 10-13 hours a day and when I come home I do the dishes, laundry, clean the house, fix the cars, mow the lawn, care for the animals ( which is a chore 5 cats , two dogs, 75+ chickens- all a byproduct of trying to keep her ingauged /happy gone a stray) and now demanded to build a bird room for her parrots and coops for the chickens. And if I don't make progress im not doing enough from both.  Sorry just needed to vent.

[Bill68]

Another day with ups and downs.  I really think wife and daughter need to be separated for awhile. It's like they are both sitting on go waiting for the other to say or do something so they can battle. I can't talk to my wife because she thinks I'm picking on her and d won't let up.

Has anyone had to separate parent/child before to help? Does it or is that enabling  d?

Thoughts appreciated

[Turkish]

 Hello Bill68,

You've got a lot on your plate, especially keeping what sounds like a mini farm running after you get home from your most of the day job (I sympathize,  having grown up in the forest having had to take care of dozens of dogs,  chickens,  goats,  a few ducks and even a sheep... .my BPD mother hoarded animals).

Did you dig into the link on triangulation that lbjnltx posted in Reply 6? Particularly,  the more detailed discussion?  

https://bpdfamily.com/content/karpman-drama-triangle

While both ladies casting blame on you for taking sides (Persecutor) may be unfair,  it might help to step back and let both of them know that a healthy time out for both of them may be appropriate.  Maybe offering it in such a way as it is their choice to do so,  apart from involving you,  will cast the responsibility onto them,  allowing you to step out from rescuing them from what they should be doing for themselves.  

[need a break]

It's been a while since I've logged on. Things are up and down. My wife and d still having massive swings from inseparable to complete blowout. Wife says she has to get away and D thinks that means she does not care. Crying, screaming and a whole lot of yelling.  I'm still trying to keep the piece but think my wife and D getting worse. Tonight my wife did go out with a friend for a little while and D only text her a few times ( usually it's 50+ times with I need you and then I hate you) so I guess it's a small win. These swings are driving me crazy because I don't know what to do. I guess I needed to vent a little.  Anybody have experience with Wellbutrin? That's the latest med

Wellbutrin made my BPD D very very aggressive. Everyone is different - for us it was a nightmare while she was on it.
It is not easy and a lot of the time gets harder before it ever changes. Your daughter is still young. I would look into RTC while she is still a minor.

I wish you the best and most of all peace

[Gorges]

Somewhere on this website is a reading about triangulation.  Victim, rescuer and aggressor.   You are being a rescuer!  Perhaps take a look around the website to try and find it.  Head to the middle of the triangle so you don't become a victim or aggressor.   Good luck! I think you have some good instincts about the separation but it sounds like your wife and daughter need to figure it out.

[Bill68]

I just read about triangulation and I agree that I do play the role of rescuer some of the time. It was good to read that some of my reactions are towards the center but do get drawn outwards during extreme conflict between the other two sides of the triangle.   I will certainly try to be mindful of my position within the triangle.  I  am a manager  at work and often find myself in similar roles. So there is a pre disposition    Good stuff, thanks for the input from all. 

[wendydarling]

And for anyone else wishing to explore 'Know good v bad triangulation' - look to the right of your screen, it's the last in the list of your tool box. 

And here is a useful workshop where members discuss how to stop circular arguments.

https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=118892.0

Bill68 - high conflict situations are difficult to manage for all, good to see you recognise where you are - towards the centre, with tweaks and hard work it's amazing what we can achieve.

WDx

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders