Flying monkeys

[Our abuse recovery guide]

Once again my NPD sister's flying monkeys are reaching out to me, acting like they are my friends, trying to find out what I am up to. I have been emotionally, financially, and physically abused by my sister. I don't have anybody stepping up to help me. None of the family members except one distant cousin believe my side of the story, so I no longer tell them anything. I always used to wonder why people treated me like dirt, when I had not seen them for a long time, and nothing had really happened for them to be mad at me. It has taken me nearly my whole life to realize my sister has been running a smear campaign against me since childhood. She is a golden child of the extended family and I am one of the six generations of scapegoats. Until I can financially and legally divorce myself from my sister which I am working on, I am stuck being polite to the flying monkeys, though I gray rock them as much as possible, and give them no information that could be of us to my sister in abusing me. Thank you for reading this and listening. It is so heartbreaking. I heard from one flying monkey yesterday, one today, and a couple of days ago figured out that another person is also a flying monkey. Now I can move on and enjoy the rest of my day.

[zachira]

Once again my NPD sister's flying monkeys are reaching out to me, acting like they are my friends, trying to find out what I am up to. I have been emotionally, financially, and physically abused by my sister. I don't have anybody stepping up to help me. None of the family members except one distant cousin believe my side of the story, so I no longer tell them anything. I always used to wonder why people treated me like dirt, when I had not seen them for a long time, and nothing had really happened for them to be mad at me. It has taken me nearly my whole life to realize my sister has been running a smear campaign against me since childhood. She is a golden child of the extended family and I am one of the six generations of scapegoats. Until I can financially and legally divorce myself from my sister which I am working on, I am stuck being polite to the flying monkeys, though I gray rock them as much as possible, and give them no information that could be of us to my sister in abusing me. Thank you for reading this and listening. It is so heartbreaking. I heard from one flying monkey yesterday, one today, and a couple of days ago figured out that another person is also a flying monkey. Now I can move on and enjoy the rest of my day.

[Riv3rW0lf]

Zachira,

It feels like your sister can almost feel when you start doing better and unleashes her monkeys on you at those moments. Like a cyclic dance of abuse that you refuse to dance with her... It takes an incredible amount of strength not to engage.

Know that I wish I could step in to help you. From where I am though, the only thing I can do is to send you support and let you know that you are not alone. I am on this journey right next to you, and send you lots of healing thoughts.

 

[zachira]

Riv3rWOlf,
You are absolutely right that my NPD sister is missing the power she used to hold over me, and nothing upsets a narcissist more than to see their victim doing well.
I appreciate your response and empathy. I have to keep reminding myself that with people who do not know my dsyfunctional abusive family members and their flying monkeys how different it feels.

[Notwendy]

I am so sorry. I think the hard part for me is that, the flying monkeys haven't mistreated me in a similar way. When they contact me, it reminds me of the potential for connection, but I can't trust that they actually want to have a relationship with me or are being put up to it in some way by BPD mother. I also know that anything I say to them will be shared with her. Their connection to her makes it impossible to trust them, even if they are being sincere.

So, even if they, themselves, are not disordered, it's not possible to have a genuine relationship with them. I find myself being cordial but keep a distance.

I understand how it bothers you to feel that way.

[Notwendy]

One example for me is that, BPD mother has not asked me to visit her but has been asking golden child to visit for months.

There was a time  I visited, her neighbors had a get together. She went but didn't invite me. I was puzzled by this because I know these neighbors and actually wanted to see them, so it felt hurtful to not be invited. I spoke to one of them later to see if there was some reason I could clear up- did I accidentally offend someone or other problem and the reply was "you were invited- we thought you could not come". So- actually it was BPD mother's decision to not invite me.

BPD mother called me recently to invite me to another neighborhood get together. I think I know why she did this. I think the neighbor said something to her to be sure to let me know I was invited as they now know she didn't pass on the invite before. I think that probably embarrassed her ( she got caught in her own story that I wasn't able to attend) so she calls me all cheery to invite me.

I do have other plans at that time. Actually, I wouldn't go if I didn't, because I know this invite is not sincere. If she's been asking golden child to visit for weeks but not me - I know that's what she wants. She didn't want to invite me to visit with her neighbors before this. I can't tell if she wants me to come or she just doesn't want it to get back to them that she doesn't but I tend to think she's covering her tracks.

The neighbors aren't flying monkeys. They are nice people and I like them. Unfortunately, they too, are caught up in a social situation between us with my mother in the middle and it becomes a triangle.

I think it comes down to - whether or not someone is a flying monkey, being in the same social circle with a disordered person involved disordered dynamics in some way.

[zachira]

"Being in the same social circle with a disordered person involves disordered dynamics in some way."

Notwendy,
You have hit the nail on the head with this quote. It perfectly describes the frustration I feel of constantly having to deal with my disordered family members and their flying monkeys. If I am with a person who does not know anybody from my disordered family's social circle, I know that whatever happens with this person, has nothing to do with my disordered family members. Within the social circle of my disordered family members, most of the time I come in with the disadvantage of having a bad reputation, though not always. There are people who are not recruited by the disordered family members and are the ones that treat me with kindness and respect, and can become friends. These same people do not side with me, which makes me feel alone sometimes, yet I realize I don't want friends who would buy into a smear campaign, and these people judge others based on their experiences with them. It also can make me feel quite alone sometimes, knowing that my disordered family members don't treat people outside the family and those family members chosen to be part of the golden children gang and enablers, in the same cruel ways as the scapegoats like me get treated. At the same time, there are people who really do get it from day one. I am acquiring more and more this astuteness right out of the gate, where I see a person for who they really are almost immediately, and it is a great skill to have. So often people want to believe in the image a person is selling of herself/himself. I now know that the really genuine people who are comfortable in their own skin, are so open about who they are and what they value in both their emotional expressions and body language, are the kind of people I love to have as friends. I really can't have it both ways: be part of a group of people who defend me no matter what my disordered family members say about me or be part of a circle of friends who choose to judge a person based on their experiences with them.
You really get your mother and what goes on behind the scenes. Your story about how your mother covered her tracks after you figured out that she deliberately did not invite you to the neighbors' get together is like what I have experienced so many times. Sometimes I feel so angry about how I get treated by my disordered family members and their flying monkeys. Other times I feel sad for the disordered family members and their flying monkeys, because of how they are missing out on having the most rewarding of authentic relationships with themselves and others.

[Notwendy]

She's being nice and sweet now, and that's a challenge- because I wonder what she's up to. I think it's a no win situation for me. If I visit, she's difficult and tells me I have upset her. If I don't visit- then I am the one to blame for not visiting.

And sadly - even if someone isn't a flying monkey and they reach out to me, I can't know for sure if she hasn't put them up to it. She does this to me as well. Tell me that someone would love to hear from me and ask me to call them. But they probably didn't say that and also- they have my number- they know how to reach me. Or the opposite- tell someone to not speak to me.

It's hard to know what she has in mind because, she's already planned it out. I don't think about people like she does. I just know that when she's nice, it's usually manipulative. I just know from experience to be wary of people in her circle now- they may be flying monkeys but also they can be nice people who go along with her because of that.

[zachira]

Notwendy,
If you are involved with a person who is part of your mother's social circle, you can only imagine what she has told them about you. With time and experience with your mother, some of them will likely catch onto what kind of person your mother is and not like how she is treating her daughter.The sad part is nobody is going to tell you that they get it because it is taboo to tell another person that they dislike the behaviors of the person's mother. If it were a friend, coworker, a more distant relative etc., that were doing what your mother is to you, there would likely be people who would get it and let you know at some point.
As far as your mother not wanting you at the neighbor's get together, it must be disturbing to your mother to have others see you as a separate person from her and a worthy person in your own right. It goes against your mother's deep seated belief that you are an extension of her, so she can treat you how she feels about herself in the moment.

[Woolspinner2000]

Hi zachira, 

I always hated The Wizard of Oz. Flying monkeys...doing the bidding of someone else.

How amazing that you recognized them so soon and sorta brushed them off as having no power over you, like flies buzzing around. When you first came here, you didn't know how to get away from them. Look at your progress! 

 
Wools

[zachira]

Woolspinner2000,
I am a work in progress. I have come a long ways and still have a long ways to go. It saddens me that I had parents and family members who were too inmature themselves to help me grow into a healthy adult. I am grateful that I have woken up, feel alive and happy most of the time. I know that there are many people who come from dysfunctional abusive families who end up in terrible places: prison, homeless, etc.,
How are you doing?

[Notwendy]

Yes, I have heard a few things she has said about me to her circle-only a few, so I know there has to be more that I don't know.

It's why I just keep an emotional distance. Cordial and polite to them but distant.

[zachira]

Just found out one of the flying monkeys has done something to my property. The person is friendly with my sister. I can never win. I just feel so heartbroken.

[Riv3rW0lf]

Something like vandalism? Or did they enter again without your permission?

[zachira]

Stole one of the locks!
I feel like it never ends having to stand up to the flying monkeys. I do get results though in that some people act better because they know they can't get away with mistreating me and being unfair to me. The flying monkeys take such a big toll on my mental and physical health!
It is a long road with all the legal hurdles I have in my path. Today I need a good cry, and then I will be back to baseline and moving forward.

[Riv3rW0lf]

On another thread, I was discussing how the confusion seems to even worsen the hurt sometimes. Even though we "know" what to expect, those kind of attacks are still surprising because healthy people can't understand the whys behind those hurtful insults and actions... Stealing things, throwing things on a yard "anonymously", sending letter upon letter of insults. It is exhausting and confusing.

I don't know... most of healthy individuals can let go, and the fact that disordered people don't, and how they choose to attack, I find are confusing for us. And this confusion, it raises the level of the hurt, anger, and feeling of unfairness of it all.

I think the only thing you can be sure of is : you didn't deserve any of this. Those kind of things should not happen and would not happen within a healthy circle, and it is terrible to be forcibly attached to a circle of disordered individuals, and having to go through those random attacks.

I can imagine how you feel... It is a breach of privacy, an action that messes with your sense of security. You have a right to feel safe in your own home and it is terrible that they are trying to rip this security from you.

I hope you can be free of it all soon.

[Notwendy]

Seriously, what is wrong with people!

[zachira]

Notwendy,
The people I am dealing with are strongly indoctrinated into narcissistic family and community systems. If the members were ever to stand up for themselves or someone else, than they would be ostracized and smeared just as I have been.

[zachira]

Riv3rWOlf,
Thank you for understanding how much this all hurts.
I hope that before I die I will be free from the legal responsiblities I have with the people who smear and abuse me. Legal matters take time and cost lots of money. I have a lawyer who can only do what the law allows. I am not independently wealthy so my options are limited by lack of money to just put everything in to the hands of my lawyer.

[zachira]

I am facing I may have to go no contact with all of the family members and their flying monkeys when my legal matters are settled which won't be happening soon enough. It means I will not have any blood relatives in my life. I seem to be the only one who gets it, who is willing to stand up for myself and others being abused.
What keeps me going, is how differently I get treated by people who are not in my family's social circle. It brings tears to my eyes knowing I cannot really count on anyone with a connection to my family's social circle. They are like the mafia. The damage they do to anybody who exposes them is unrelenting and extremely cruel. I exposed a relative a few years ago who bought a tomb stone for her son knowing that he was suicidal. Some other family members took a relative with Alzheimer's and difficulty walking on a hike on an icy mountain, and then blamed him for endangering everybody else. I am finding myself more bored and uninterested in all the bragging, and stone cold lack of empathy. I listened to some eulogies and talks about the lives of deceased family members, and I was shocked at how all they could talk about were accomplishments and facts, and there was nothing said about what kind of person he/she was. I think I am becoming more bored and uninterested in being around the family; grey rocking and low contact are becoming more comfortable for me. Maybe at some point, I will naturally just disappear from the family social circle, not be missed, and nor miss any of them.

[zachira]

The flying monkeys have gotten together with my abusers and the photos are on social media. It is very clear that everyone who I used to think was maybe a friend of mine in the family is a flying monkey. All the people who have been contacting me over the past few years pretending to be interested in my life, are flying monkeys. I am heartbroken yet I am glad to know the truth. No more sharing anything with the flying monkeys, and I am going to go as low contact as possible.
I have never been a part of the family and often wondered why I was not interested in going to family events in the ways other people were. At some level, I knew I was a scapegoat.
I am going to get my will done and leave the little that I do have to charity. I am going to work on building my own family with people I am not related to who are capable of empathy, reciprocal relationships, and have integrity.
I may be crying a lot the next few days, something my family members can't do, and then I will move on. I am already able to have more genuine peace and happiness than my family members who are so invested in the toxic narcissistic 6 generation narratives that some people are to be worshipped and others have to be the scapegoats.

 

[Notwendy]

It's still a sting when they all get together. It's a loss, even if it wasn't worth the emotional investment. One reason for feeling discomfort around people in my mother's circle is that, I don't really know what they think of me, as they mainly hear her perspective of me.

I also haven't felt as if I am part of the family around her FOO. This is a contrast to my father's family. My mother's family seems to act as if we are secondary to their interests. The adults in my Dad's family treated us as if we were their own kids. I don't think this is completely intentional on my mother's side- I think it might be in their capacity to relate to people, maybe? They aren't bad people, they aren't mean. There's a bit of a narcissistic streak to them. As kids, I recall really wanting to fit in with them, to belong, but it seemed out of reach. With Dad's family, that wasn't even a thought. They loved us as kids, we belonged. Getting together with them is easy.

I think it's more about how people relate to each other. It may feel that you are excluded from your relatives' circle, and that hurts, but dysfunction isn't just with you. Now they can be dysfunctional together. You don't want to be a part of that.

Zachira- I hope in time you will connect with people who are your circle- a separate one from the people in your family. Family doesn't have to be related by birth.

Take care of yourself.

[Mommydoc]

Hi Zachira, I am so sorry this is happening again and that it is such a difficult time for you. If only, your legal issues could be resolved so you could break free. It will happen with time, but it doesn’t make it easier in the moment.

I am facing I may have to go no contact with all of the family members and their flying monkeys when my legal matters are settled which won't be happening soon enough. It means I will not have any blood relatives in my life. I seem to be the only one who gets it, who is willing to stand up for myself and others being abused.

Our situations are so similar, I have come to the same conclusion.  I don’t have as extensive a family as you, as my parents were both only children. My sister has developed superficial relationships with many of our second cousins and so I avoid them for that reason. Currently my sister isn’t even cooperating with the trust attorney to sign basic documents, it seems as a tactic to punish me. Once my mother passes away, it will likely take 6 months- a year to work through our legal requirements of settling her trust as co-trustees. I am mentally preparing myself for my mom to die, but dreading the aftermath with my sister and having to deal with my personal grief at the same time my sister will probably be at her worst. She severely dysregulated when my dad died and I didn’t know about BPD then. This time I feel so much better prepared emotionally and expect it. It seems like  you too are better able to recognize and separate yourself from your sisters accusations and antics. Given that persons with BPD fear abandonment, I suspect things could get even worse at the time we are legally able to disconnect from our sisters. But we will get through it.

NotWendy, your experiences with your mother and the social events is all too familiar. It used to bother me, as my sister would be inviting my neighbors to things with my mom and exclude me. It bothered me intensely when I didn’t understand it, now, I just note it as who she is and how she operates.

I am going to work on building my own family with people I am not related to who are capable of empathy, reciprocal relationships, and have integrity.

Zachira, I agree with Not Wendy, you deserve to build your chosen family, who love, care and are there for you and with whom there is no drama. I just recently read a book (about retirement), that suggested that we all adopt a mind set of  “what are you going to subtract (stop), what are you going to keep, and what are you going to add to your life” . We can choose to let go of some of this at some point, keep what’s good and add new people and things to our life. We are here to support you throughout, as your support has always meant so much to me. Thank you and sending you peace.

[Notwendy]

One thing I have realized is that chaos is part of the way they relate to others. Since there's been less of a response to it on my part- the relationship somehow seems more distant, more empty. When we each played our part in it, it felt more connected.

BPD mother has asked, multiple times, for us to come help her get her things in order, to come so she can show us where things are such as important documents. As soon as we get there, it's different. She either refuses to let us sort through her papers or sits there directing us and getting angry if we somehow don't do this in the correct order or how she wants it. If we ask questions, she refuses to give us information and calls us names.

We have made it clear many times that we are not interested in her material possessions and that we are doing this because she asked us to help her with them. She often asks if we want a certain item and if we say yes - that is the exact item she won't give us. We don't want her to think we are there only for her things or her money, we are there for her, and yet, that's not what she seems to want to hear. She wants us to want her possessions, because then, if she holds on to them, she knows we want to come to get them.

I don't think she can feel that just coming to see her is enough of a reason for her. Maybe it's because she doesn't have a strong sense of self. Maybe it's because somehow she knows our relationship is strained and that it's not something we have a strong desire to do. But neither do we think it's OK to not visit an elderly parent. We don't feel OK about not visiting her, but when we do visit, the visit is so difficult, we then don't want to.

She has another motivator and that is the chaos. I wonder if this is in a sense gives her some emotional security. Maybe she fears if it was all straightened out, she'd then not have a reason to ask us to come help her. Maybe she's sincere about asking us to come help and then when we get there, the fear leads her to change her mind.

Because she doesn't indicate clearly what she really wants, we just can't seem to get it right. Maybe that provides some sort of security for her.

Mommydoc- I have an idea for you to consider. To your sister, chaos is a tie for you. As long as the two of you are entangled in your mother's affairs, there's a reason for the two of you to remain in contact. If she were cooperative and signed all the papers, then that would be done. You would not have this reason to contact her again and so she fears that you would not. If she can prolong this, as long as possible, she knows the two of you are connected somehow and this may be why she continues the chaos.

[khibomsis]

Zachira, we see you on these boards. I don't say a lot but I'm surfing and watching. The many you've helped, the depths you've had to go through and the compassion you've developed. We get to have the authentic you. I feel sorry for your family that they never allowed themselves the pleasure of knowing who you are. Their loss, our gain.
 

[zachira]

Notwendy,
My relationship with my mother's family is also very different from my father's family. In my father's family, there are at least six generations of golden children, scapegoats, and their flying monkeys. My mother's family never favored any particular child from my generation though my aunt was horribly scapegoated by her siblings and the one who took care of my grandmother in her home for many years. We do not know my mother's family well, as they lived in a distant state. One time my sister and I went to visit a cousin and his wife we did not know well from my mother's side of the house. My sister had three major meltdowns while at their house. It all started when I was talking to my cousin and his wife about how my aunt and other residents at her nursing home were being abused. My sister kept trying to interrupt the conversation; my cousin took her out of the room and told her that it was necessary that they hear about what I was telling them. A little later when I came out of the bathroom, my sister was telling my cousin's wife that we had to leave immediately because of all the demands I was making on her that day and not letting her get her work done (all lies). I then said that we did not need to do any of the things my sister was saying I had demanded, that we would be staying, and my priority was to visit with my cousin and his wife. Later on I asked about my cousin's nephew who passed away, and how his parents were doing. My cousin's wife said she did not know which was harder: to suddenly lose a child or having a child who was slowly dying, that their daughter was dying of brain cancer. My sister immediately changed the subject. I interrupted her and told my cousin and his wife how sorry I was that their daughter had brain cancer. I had never seen my sister act so badly, and not get away with it. My sister was in dire distress over not being fawned over, and having me treated like a person worthy of respect. My cousin and his wife clearly saw what kind of person my sister is. I am still in contact with them. My father's side of the house will always be a bunch of flying monkeys, who fawn over my sister and the other golden children, and keep trying to find out where I am and what I am doing, so they can exclude me from family events and have my sister around. I do believe that a lot of the flying monkeys see themselves as somehow special as belonging to the genius club, some of whom are not brilliant just average intelligence, unlike all the golden children who are brilliant IQ wise and narcissistic.

[zachira]

Mommydoc,
Yes, I do think things will get considerably worse at the time we are able to  completely legally disconnect from our sisters. Now it is to a certain point a waiting game, while being proactive about the things we need to do now so there will be less chance of things being worse than they could be later on. I am inspired by how you have tried to be kind and ethical with your sister while doing what is right for your mother. It is a life long sorrow to not be able to have a special caring relationship with your only sister. We grieve the losses knowing that the best way we can help them and ourselves is by setting healthy boundaries with our sisters. I have learned with my sister that I have to stand up to her, and I do feel now that she is afraid of me which will to a certain point limit her abuse of me, mostly resorting to her flying monkey to do the dirty work for her. Having the flying monkeys abuse me, which includes many family members and the family social circle, was more disturbing at first, as I did not know if they were innocently involved. I now know that the flying monkeys are intentional in their abuse of me. I have committed the ultimate transgression, standing up to six generations of abuse, hoping to make a difference for myself and others. I am feeling now that I do have the self esteem to continue to make healthy friendships and to set better boundaries with people.

[zachira]

Khibomsis,
I too feel sad that I will never be seen and appreciated by my family for who I truly am. I have spent my life appreciating people outside my family and their social circle who are kind to me, and oftentimes really enjoy my company.

I very much feel seen and supported by many members on PSI.

[zachira]

More explanations of why all the inquiries about my plans for the summer. They are having a family reunion which I was not invited to. I am not feeling terribly triggered, right now though I know it means more bullying by the family and their social circle. I just don't want to be a part of their heartless narcissistic facade. I am actually feeling like I am doing what is right for me.

[Notwendy]

I do believe that a lot of the flying monkeys see themselves as somehow special as belonging to the genius club, some of whom are not brilliant just average intelligence, unlike all the golden children who are brilliant IQ wise and narcissistic.

I understand that. Although I think my mother's FOO is kinder than this, I have always felt as if they looked down on us and felt they were better than us. I purposely avoid sharing any information like this about my kids with my BPD mother as I don't want to get into the comparison conversation. It doesn't matter what they do though, nothing we do would impress them much.  Why put ourselves through this? I just don't get involved in that.

Let your family have their reunion together. You don't need that grief,

[zachira]

Notwendy,
A hallmark of narcissistic families is they are very competitive, and children are compared instead of loved for who they are. I am glad you did what you could to protect your children from the comparison wars and paid attention to how you felt around your mother's family.
I would not feel comfortable at a family reunion now, knowing what I know, and having endured so much abuse either of me or observing other family members being abused.

[Notwendy]

children are compared instead of loved for who they are.

Yes, and it really distances people. Kids are different. I think comparing them is cruel and impacts their self worth.

I actually feel sorry for my mother being raised in this family because she has not accomplished much, and in a loving family, that should not matter in terms of a child's self worth. Kids need unconditional love. To boost her own self esteem, she looked to my father and us kids to achieve and to talk about with them. To make her feel better, her FOO compliments even the smallest thing she does and it sounds so strange because it sounds like they are praising a child. It's patronizing. I've observed that my mother is actually a bit afraid of her family and getting together with them is a stressor for her.

When we are around them, they talk about their grandkids' achievements, who got into the best college or whatever. They may ask about us but they don't seem to listen. Trying to connect with them is like grabbing at air.

A big issue for my mother is feeling invalidated and this family feels invalidating. While none of them have BPD, I can see how, if my mother was emotionally vulnerable, being invalidated could have impacted her self esteem.

[zachira]

Notwendy,
There is no abililty to connect with others in narcissistic families and narcissistic relationships, thus the focus on projecting an image by doing the things that make a person look successful to the outside world.

[Notwendy]

That is the case.

By contrast, my father's family is a mix of all kinds of careers/jobs and interests. We always felt loved and connected with them.

There are cracks in the veneer of my mother's FOO. Some of the kids/grandkids have struggled emotionally and/or financially. They don't say much about that. And my mother doesn't share any of her issues with them. She gets very anxious when she gets together with them. Everything has to be over the top and perfect. If they come over to the house, she's a wreck over everything. She is on her best behavior around them.

It was crazy making. She'd have a fit over the food, and how things looked. We'd get upset with her shouting at us. Looking at it a different way- from her perspective, she probably feels she needs to impress them that we have to keep her issues a secret.

I do feel sorry for her in this context. How hard it must be to have to feel that way.  

[zachira]

Notwendy,
What seems to make the difference, is having healthy people in our lives who are not like the dysfunctional parent/parents raising us. Another big factor is the ability to have awareness that something about how we are treated by a parent/parents/other family members and their social circle is off. I could never buy the narrative that the cruel behaviors of so many of my family members is okay. As I have gotten older and the dysfunctional family members have aged, it seems that the dysfunctional family members are less able to hide their cruelty. I was shocked when one family member would tell me with a smile on her face how she had bought a tombstone for her son knowing that he was suicidal. I was also shocked when another family member enlisted other family members like my NPD sister to take her husband with Alzheimer's and difficult walking on long hikes in the worst weather conditions that could have killed him. The dysfunctional family members still worship these cruel people and I am viewed as a problem for trying to get the abused family members some very much needed outside help. They are all part of the abuse because they enable it. Not me. I am moving on and am doing my best to spend time helping those people I can really help and surrounding myself with people I can have connected kind reciprocal relationships with. Doing small acts of kindness for others makes me feel worthy and loved. Yesterday I was at the bank, and there was a long line. There was a disabled woman trying to get the teller's attention who clearly was not comfortable standing in line. I got the teller's attention when it was my turn and the lady had her request granted to sit in a chair until it was her turn. It is getting easier to see the pictures of the family reunion I am not invited to, as I try to stay focused on what matters most to me.

[Notwendy]

Good for you! I think my mother's FOO is more oblivious to how others feel around them than they are deliberately cruel. However, my mother can be deliberately cruel and seems to somehow enjoy that. I think you are right to stay away from that bunch. I guess it's birds of a feather. Ugly feathers.

[zachira]

Notwendy,
It has taken me a long time to realize that birds of a feather flock together. Some of the family members who have been very kind to me at times, really believe in not ever saying anything bad about the golden children and their flying monkeys, and have gaslighted me if I have ever indicated there is anything wrong with how the golden children behave. It is acceptable to say the most unkind things about the scapegoats, no matter how generous they are and how hard they try to be liked. I am not part of the flock and never will be because I cannot tolerate all the hypocrisy: the fawning over cruel people who do not deserve to be looked up to and the contempt for the scapegoats no matter how generous and kind they are. Last year I had a real aha moment at a family gathering. One relative showed up who was furious because a friend told him how grateful she was to me after I helped her when she had a car accident. I was treated with contempt the whole night, especially by this relative. It seems that the disordered people have the shame they feel about themselves triggered when they hear something good about one of the scapegoats. It is like: if the scapegoat isn't really a terrible person, than that means they must be.

[Riv3rW0lf]

I was reading yesterday on splitting.

From what I read, narcissists and borderlines both split, but in the narcissist case, the splitting is always done to their advantage i.e. the narcissist is all white, and the scapegoat always all black. So it stands to reason that hearing something positive regarding the scapegoat would be highly triggering : they'd have to split themselves black, and they can't. The scapegoat must remain black at all times.

For borderlines though, the splitting includes themselves. I noticed that, in my mother's letter, she sometimes paints herself black too, but when she does, soon after, I have to be worst (split black) so she can feel better about herself. And once she does, she will sometimes split me white again. But then, it if isn't my fault entirely, it means she also messed up, so she starts feeling bad about herself again, and there I am split black again...

So borderline split is more of a cycle. While the narcissist split seems more stable in nature... So being the scapegoat of a narcissist is like being thrown into a well and left to drown. It must have taken a lot of strength to climb out, Zacchira. It is interesting that you were even able to, in all honesty. Why do you think that is?

I ask, and I recently wondered the same thing about myself. Why is it that my older brother has developped narcissistic tendencies, maybe even NPD (I'm seeing many signs pointing in that direction now, but am not targetted by him because we aren't close and he has plenty of supply within his work and community), my second brother is bipolar, drug addict and potentially borderline, and I am here. Is there something I do not see? Maybe control issues? But people around me don't seem to point me toward that... Most think of me as a healthy individual. My therapist mentioned IQ, but it feels wrong to agree somehow. But could it be only that? A somewhat higher IQ protect us from developing a PD somehow? Plenty of PD with high IQ around... So what was it that saved us?

[zachira]

Riv3rW0lf,
Your explanation about the differences between how narcissists and borderlines split is very helpful. The relative who could not stand hearing his friend singing my praises for helping her at the scene of her car accident is a narcissist just like his father. My NPD sister just loses it when somebody likes me. The people with BPD in my family do seem to be more depressed and take out a lot of their dysregulated emotions on themselves. Thank you for this very helpful explanation. I will refrain from trying to prove I am a person of value in front of narcissists and borderlines by grey rocking and not talking about myself. The double edged sword is the more I break away from the family, the more good things they hear about me from other sources as I am happier and more sure of myself which escalates their smear campaign and the abuse.
You ask what saved us. For me, it is several things. One is I was chosen to be a scapegoat. Another is I believe I am more naturally wired to be empathetic, whereas my dysfunctional family members don't seem to have the capacity for empathy, and many of them have strong Asperger's characteristics, some likely qualifying for an Asperger's diagnosis if they were to be evaluated by a qualified professional. I also believe that the kindness of many different people since childhood, helped me to continue to keep seeking answers and supported my strong desire to have loving relationships in my life. My therapist says I am the best client she has ever had when it comes to being willing to look at myself and seeking ways to improve. I have been hurt many times by being disliked by people and groups, yet I have tried to learn from healthy people because I have never wanted to be like my dysfunctional family members. What do you think saved you?

[Riv3rW0lf]

What do you think saved you?

I keep thinking about the woman who was my primary caregiver from 6 months old to 3 years old. My mother went back to work early, and left me in the care of a woman who had a handicapped daughter older than me. I would be there 5 days a week, from 6am til 6pm. I don't remember her, only one memory of her giving me mashed banana with a smile, and I feel safe. After that, I was put in a center with other children, and I remember having a best friend there. I loved it.

My older brother was with my mother all his childhood, and the other one was in a government funded one, so he didn't have the loving one on one interaction I had with my caregiver.

I wonder if that was somehow enough sometimes... A solid, loving and calm exemple of care in my youngest years.

Also, my father and mother separated when I was three, so I had access to more stability away from my mother than my brothers, probably, since they were older...

I can't help but think it has to do with having had access to safe places away from her more often than them...

[zachira]

Riv3rW0lf,
I am so glad you spent a lot of quality time with a caregiver who could give you the kind of care that a child needs from 6 months of age to 3 years old. I often have told people who are distressed about a child that has a disordered parent to spend as much quality time as they can with that child. I know that people who were kind to me when I was child, sometimes for just a few minutes, are people who I remember fondly and I believe kept my desire to have loving relationships alive.

[zachira]

I am thinking of one person I know who is never a flying monkey. She has many years working as an international mediator all over the world. She never says anything negative about anybody. I was just awe struck by how one of the narcissists in the community treated her horribly and she refused to ever say one unkind word about this person even though what happened was well known in cetain circles.
Advertising and manipulating messages usually depend on short effective statements that are given in a confident convincing tone. A lot of times, the abused person is so distraught that their pain goes unheard because their lengthy emotional monologues overwhelm most people.
It takes a person of integrity to say: "I will determine how I feel about this person based on my experiences with her/him." The people I surround myself with who are not flying monkeys and know my family, have made it clear to me they feel sorry for my pain, and refuse to be my blind advocates which I tell them I appreciate. (I do not want friends who would be flying monkeys for me.) My family's flying monkeys fully support the family narratives of the scapegoats being bad people and the golden childen never being able to do anything wrong.
I feel like I am reaching a place of greater peace. I am feeling more and more detached from my family and really don't want to be around them. I am not like them because of all the hard work I have done in years of therapy and on my own, and am proud of becoming a person in my own right. There are very few parents in my family who are capable of connecting to their children and providing them with secure attachment. The lack of secure attachment, seems to result in seeing people and situations in black and white, with no capacity to see people as human and capable of growth. It is only with a lot of hard work, in most cases years of therapy, and the willingess to learn new ways of being, that one can escape toxic family environments, and become a whole healthy person able to deal with the challenges and imperfections of life. I am the lucky person in my family, as I am the only one to walk away from at least six generations of toxic family dynamics and to start a new life which is full of many moments of connection with self and others. When I see pictures of my family, they all look so unhappy attempting to put smiles on their faces. I am truly sad for my family members because they will never know what it feels like to be happy.
The members on PSI have been a big part of my progress as I face the heartbreak of divorcing my family. I appreciate your kindness and generosity more than I can put into words.

[Riv3rW0lf]

It takes a person of integrity to say: "I will determine how I feel about this person based on my experiences with her/him."

I do not want friends who would be flying monkeys for me.

I wholeheartedly agree with those statements. At the same time, I can't help but think that sometimes, hearing a "scapegoat" talk about the abuse they went through can enlighten our eyes to the red flags we saw, but chose to ignore.

For exemple, I am starting to see red flags surrounding my older brother. But somehow I keep telling myself : I am probably wrong, it is none of my business, etc.

If his children were to come to me and talk to me about it though, I feel like it would be my duty as their aunt, to acknowledge their truth, and think back on the red flags I myself may have seen, then to provide them with tools and validation and support.

I agree that we should judge someone on our own experience with them. But then, someone with BPD will act almost normally with strangers, acquaintances and sometimes even friends, although there might be a few red flags... The real abuse happens at home. So if a child or teenager or even an adult child was ready to come out and speak their truth about what happened... I think most healthy individuals will at least acknowledge it? Those that ignore it might be ignoring it because they do not want to end up on the wrong side of the abuser... Staying neutral... It is possible to remain neutral and not become a flying monkey while still validating and recognizing the truth of a scapegoat...

But closing our eyes completely to the red flags also feel a bit wrong to me.

[zachira]

Riv3rW0lf,
I mostly agree with what you are saying. I apparently no longer have a relationship with my sister's children. If her children were to come to me, and express awareness of the fact that they were raised by two narcissistic parents and how it affected them, I would listen. I certainly would not gaslight them.I would answer questions. I would try to make it about having empathy and compassion for their experiences. I would not want to tell them all about my experiences unless they were very much interested in hearing my side of the story because I want to be there for them and not enlist them to be my caretakers or flying monkeys.
A distant cousin of mine was extremely helpful to me. She took me aside at a family party, and very briefly explained to me that my sister and her husband are narcissists. She told me how my sister never spoke to her because she viewed her as not worth her time because she is not brilliant. She told me how her BIL who is in the same profession as my sister's husband, was put down by my sister's husband because he wasn't as prominent as my sister's husband in that field. She said she wants nothing to do with either my sister or her husband. This distant cousin has always been a kind person, and I think this is why she can see through the family smoke screen of portraying themselves as a great family to be envied by others. Her father was very abusive. This distant cousin really helped me. She is the only family member to validate my experiences with my sister and her husband. I thanked her for her help. She also invited me to Thanksgiving at her house. I was not invited to celebrate Thanksgiving with my closer relatives who lived nearby and host a big familyThanksgiving every year.  

[Riv3rW0lf]

Riv3rW0lf,
I mostly agree with what you are saying. I apparently no longer have a relationship with my sister's children. If her children were to come to me, and express awareness of the fact that they were raised by two narcissistic parents and how it affected them, I would listen. I certainly would not gaslight them. I would answer questions. I would try to make it about having empathy and compassion for their experiences. I would not want to tell them all about my experiences unless they were very much interested in hearing my side of the story because I want to be there for them and not enlist them to be my caretakers or flying monkeys.

Yes Zachira, I know you would. I see you here, and I can see, from your posts, how empathetic and kind-hearted you are. I know you would never turn a blind eye to abuse.

I was mostly questioning those who didn't and don't do this for you, and didn't do it for me. The Switzerland of our warmongering disordered family members... Those who won't hear it, despite the red flags they can themselves see.

I agree with judging someone based on our own experience with them... But then... Abusers don't abuse everyone. Is recognizing the truth of a scapegoat acting as a flying monkey? Are all truths truly valid and equal? I just don't believe so anymore...

You chose not to keep a friendship with someone who was abusing her children, you didn't want to feel as an enabler. And I understood you, and it got me thinking... Is staying neutral some kind of enabling?

[zachira]

Riv3rW0lf,
You replied to my post before I got done posting which this site allows. My story in my last post about my distant cousin, is to me is what I would cite as a perfect example of having appropriate boundaries yet having the right kind of timing in letting me know how she feels about my sister and her husband. She is also aware of other dysfunctional family dynamics. My distant cousin is not an enabler, yet she knows when what she has to say about the abusive family dynamics is likely to be helpful and be heard.
I enabled my friend who abused her children.The more I have gotten to know her, the more I have realized that if her children were ever to decide to contact her, that she would insist on their adoping her rigid views about religion and morality, which are hers and hers alone. I had been setting boundaries with her recently. She used to call me weekly. When I kept up with the boundary setting, she did not call me for several weeks. She then called to talk as if nothing had happened and clearly wants things to go back to the way they were. I replied to her phone call which I did not answer, saying I want to take a break from talking to her on the phone as I am very busy right now with things I need to get done. I have not heard from her. I have a feeling the friendship is of no interest to her if I am not going to enable her behaviors which eventually turn off anybody who gets to know her.
Being neutral can be enabling or can be the right call depending on the person and the situation in the moment.
I know you may not be comfortable answering this question. Do you by any chance live in French Switzerland? I have lived there. I know a Swiss French woman here in the United States who is struggling with a mother with BPD. Seems like sometimes we are more closely connected than we realize.

[Riv3rW0lf]

Being neutral can be enabling or can be the right call depending on the person and the situation in the moment.

I know you may not be comfortable answering this question. Do you by any chance live in French Switzerland? I have lived there. I know a Swiss French woman here in the United States who is struggling with a mother with BPD. Seems like sometimes we are more closely connected than we realize.

I think you are right that every situations need to be assessed in all its complexity before choosing the right course of action based on our emotions and inner life.  And sometimes, remaining neutral is the only way to be, if only to be able to stay within range and monitor what is happening and be able to help from the sidelines.

No, I am french Canadian.

[zachira]

Riv3rW0lf,
I think you very much get it, that we have to meet people where they are at. My therapist once told me my mother was a narcissist. I was very offended because at that time I was very attached to her even though she was abusive. My mother had BPD.
So you are French Canadian. I love to travel to French Canada, especially Quebec.

As far as the flying monkeys go, with most of them, all we can do is set healthy boundaries. The flying monkeys are chosen for their ability to help the abuser achieve his/her goals in getting information about the target and in abusing the target.  Usually by the time, we learn that someone is a flying monkey, he/she has been so indoctrinated into the beliefs of the abuser about the target, there is nothing the target can say, that will change anything about the flying monkeys' misplaced perceptions and actions.

[zachira]

The feedback I get on this thread just leaves me thinking and learning about so many things. Riv3rW0lf's explanation about how narcissists and borderlines differ, the narcissist not able to hear things that don't agree with their narcissistic image whereas the borderline can sometimes turn on themselves or blame others. I am thinking more about my narcissistic family. Most of my family members had cold parents who focused on exterior things, like achievement, and did not love their children unconditionally. It seems that my challenging the family system, refusing to be one of the scapegoats, is extremely threatening to their whole world, the beliefs that they hold about the family.

[Riv3rW0lf]

Zachira, I figured out why I am not as messed up as my brothers while writing on another thread :

Reading, music and arts.

My father enrolled me in piano classes and kept buying me art crayons, paint, canvas... So when I started being overwhelmed emotionally, I used art as an exit to express it, and it pulled me through somehow... That I didn't have to keep it in : I had ways to communicate it to the world. I didn't internalize it like my mother did, only to later discharge it in victims... I had a healthy way to express it.

I still have drawings I made as a teenager, and compositions... Profound pain, but expressed pain. And this is what helped me cope and helped me push through. My pain had a meaning, and a purpose, from it, I could create works of art. So it wasn't as damaging anymore.

And books to escape in as a child, where the mother in the book was kind and loving... Where the child was in an abusive family and played piano to go through it. I started reading "adult books" very early... Books about life, spirituality, that raised my self-awareness and showed me there was much more to life than what I had access to through my abusive mother.

Arts. The best therapy I could have wished for. My father did well on that point.

[Riv3rW0lf]

The feedback I get on this thread just leaves me thinking and learning about so many things. Riv3rW0lf's explanation about how narcissists and borderlines differ, the narcissist not able to hear things that don't agree with their narcissistic image whereas the borderline can sometimes turn on themselves or blame others. I am thinking more about my narcissistic family. Most of my family members had cold parents who focused on exterior things, like achievement, and did not love their children unconditionally. It seems that my challenging the family system, refusing to be one of the scapegoats, is extremely threatening to their whole world, the beliefs that they hold about the family.

In their worldview, a narcissist has to remain perfect, so it stands to reason that they will focus on their house, their car... Plus, we live in a narcisstic society, where we are told we need to buy beautiful things, work, and buy, work and buy, to keep an image of the perfect family, which is all about looks, more than about presence, and emotional bonding.

The fact that I chose to step out of a profession, a career, to stay with my children. The fact my husband and I chose a small house, only have one car, don't travel but rather enjoy our own backyard and surrounding playgrounds... What I am is highly triggering to most adults around me.

In our narcisstic society, many people go along thinking they don't have a choice. And it is very triggering for them to see someone who is not following along like they do. They feel guilt, and shame, and the reaction is usually to either justify themselves to me, or to try and release this shame onto us via shaming critics camouflaged as jokes.

In our society : most narcissists have the upper hand too, because they fit the cultural narrative we currently have and that I personally find very... Traumatizing. Our culture goes against all our primal instincts. The more narcissist we are, the better we feel in this society... for others, there is a raise in so many mental health issues, anxiety, depression...

Just thinking out loud here...

[zachira]

Riv3rW0lf,
Authenticity is very threatening to narcissistic families and narcissistic cultures. From a young age, you have been very interested in activities that required being present and creative. You and your husband value simplicity and connection instead of materialism and appearances. For those of us raised in a narcissistic family and narcissistic cultures, we are often a threatening presence to the many people and institutions that buy into the narcissistic values. At times, the criticism and disapproval for being authentic can be overwhelming, as it feels like we are constantly being invalidated.Then there are the truly rewarding heartfelt moments, when we connect with people who find joy in connecting and being with us. I believe it is people like us who value authenticity, connection, and simplicity who are the ones with the capacity to model the values and actions that are going to save our planet and the human race from complete destruction.

[Riv3rW0lf]

I keep thinking a parallel can be drawn between the flying monkeys surrounding the narcissists, and the many people lost in our narcissistic cultures that are threatened by our authenticity and simplicity... I something think they just don't know any better, they are following our "culture values", instead of what feels right inside, probably constantly gaslighting themselves...

[zachira]

Riv3rWOlf,
It takes courage to stand up for our values. Some people have been gaslighted since birth and do not develop an integrated sense of self which makes them easy targets for narcissistic people, families, and cultures. When I look at my family members who all part of the family cult, I see people who are unable to look genuinely happy in photos and in person are very childlike.

[Riv3rW0lf]

Zachira, I would like your opinion on something. You have seen a lot of NPD behaviors within your family, so I wonder if you could help me figure this one out...

Could a NDP disguise himself as a healer? Form a community, at the top of which he would basically stand? Singing the praise of empathy, connections to others and to the earth, all the while being completely unable to connect to his own children?

It seems counter-intuitive, to see someone who is a life coach, who values community and being truthful who would have actually developed NPD? But then... it fits, doesn't it? Saving people, guiding them... Could be leadership, but could be something else.

I am not very close to my brother anymore... But something disturbed me last time I saw him. We were talking about how his son is doing amazingly good on a trampoline, and how he was vetted for the Olympics, but didn't make it because he was lacking techniques (he is 12). So my brother was telling me he hired a private coach to teach him all about it, and how this coach was pushing his son to his limits.

To which I answered: and does he like it?
And my brother answered: He is very good at it, he has to keep going.
And I repeated: but does he like it? Does he feel under pressure, or is he thriving? How does he feel about it?
And he couldn't answer me... And it scared me that he couldn't answer.

He also called his daughter a 'young woman' and how beautiful it was to see her evolve with so many other young women... But she is 10years old. And last time I asked her how she liked leaving in a place where they rented sleeping arrangement, she told me she felt like she couldn't be herself, because she is not allowed to run, or scream, and she sometimes feels like she cannot be a child.

He told me himself he felt disconnected with his own children... Like they were living their own life and he didn't felt like he cared. And I can't help but see that he only seems to care when they meet specific standards, like the trampoline thing...

He acts as a savior, does exorcism... I can't help but think he has to think of himself as someone very grandiose to get into "demon exorcisms"...

I wonder what I should do for my niece and nephew... Should I reach out to them? Invite them to come see me sometimes? They almost teenagers now... I don't know that they would even be interested... But I can't help but feel a bit... uneased about the whole thing, and the people they have access to.

Or is it part of the "abusive mindset" where I think I have to intervene, when maybe it is just none of my business? It is his life, his children, and they aren't physically abused, they are doing well... Should I just... mind my own business? They barely know me, as I've been living in another province for 6 years. I don't know if I should reach out or not I guess... offer my niece a place to run and be a child for a weekend, you know?

I know I am diverging a bit from the flying monkey thread... But he is my mother's flying monkey, so still somewhat connected? 

[zachira]

Riv3rWOlf,
In my experiences with disordered people, there are a lot of communal narcissists, people who do everything to look good on the outside, often donating large amounts of time to community causes to have a positive public image. Certain professions are full of narcissists: healers, religious leaders, therapists, college professors, etc., If you want to know who somebody is, look at how they treat their children. Parents  who are unable to connect to their children and are focused on their children's achievements are narcissistic. These types of people are often flying monkeys or abusers themselves or both.
Be as involved in the lives of your niece and nephew as much as possible. I am very grateful to my aunts and uncle who were also family scapegoats who spent quality time with me.

[Daisy Green]

Dear NotWendy,

Thank you for sharing your story.  I can only imagine the violations you have endured if your sis is brave enough to send a flying monkey to steal a lock. 

This sounds like such a hard situation... how draining to have to get legal about things.  I hope that you can be free of all of them soon.  Honestly-- there are lovely, healthy humans in the world to befriend and become "family" with once we overcome our old unhealthy patterns.  I'm still working on all that myself, so I speak with great empathy.

The others here seem to have great advice.  I learn from what others share... I, too, have a BPD sis & it is SO HARD !  I feel like the sibling dynamic is different from the partner dynamic and there's not much written about it in books, etc.

Take care of yourself.  I have a post-it note on my wall that says: "Self-Care is how we get our power back."
Be well...

[zachira]

I have a question. Why does my NPD sister recruit so many people as flying monkeys? It looks like she is always testing the waters to see who she can recruit and manipulate. I don't think of friendship as a means to use people to get what I want. For me, friendship is about connection and mutual respect. I like to be around people who get other people pretty easily and are not taken in by phony surface behaviors that are used to impress others.

[Notwendy]

Could a NDP disguise himself as a healer?

Yes, in fact, it was someone in that realm in our community which prompted me to first read about NPD.  I was on a community service committee with him and he was very difficult to work with. I suspected he must be NPD but didn't know a lot about it at the time.

Why does my NPD sister recruit so many people as flying monkeys? It looks like she is always testing the waters to see who she can recruit and manipulate.

People with NPD need a source of narcissistic supply. It's not always easy to find and sometimes people get fed up with them and leave the friendship. In addition, I think the need is great, and hard to satisfy- so they need a lot of it, so yes, it makes sense they'd test people out to see if they are potential sources. Unfortunately for empathetic people, that may make them more likely to be potential sources, and also perhaps people who have low self esteem and somehow the pwNPD can make them feel special. But the pwNPD is using them and they may lose interest in the relationship over time.

Not everyone "passes" their test. With the person I mentioned above, I was just fed up with his BS and didn't show any interest in it. He ignored me after that.

My BPD mother also has an NPD aspect to her ( they can overlap ) and she seems to have run though friends over time. I have watched her in social interactions and she's very witty and charming and people are drawn to her, but I have also seen where they move on over time.

There's another person who I know. She will form a tight circle of "besties" who do everything together and then, all of a sudden, the group breaks up and she does it again with another group. I don't talk to her friends much but a few times I have run into the friends and assumed they were still friends with this person and they say no, they can't stand her. So this would fit that pattern too.

[zachira]

Notwendy,
I am beginning to realize that my NPD sister surrounds herself with people who are superficial like herself. They feed each other supply and rarely get tired of each other because the contacts are sporadic, not deep, and a source of narcissistic supply for all of them. Some of these people are narcissists themselves, and others codependent.
My sister did not go to her high school reunion which she could have easily attended. I suspect that many of her former classmates get it that she is a narcissist. My sister is not going to an event where she will not be fawned over and acknowledged as a very special person.
I have one of her flying monkeys on my back now, and I have to deal with him because it is a financial matter, potentially turning into another costly legal battle. There is also another flying monkey bothering me, for a matter that needs to be taken care of, and she is using this issue as a means to pass on information to my sister. I only give her the information she needs, and nothing of value to pass on to my sister.
There are just days when I feel so tired of it all. Most of the time, though I keep getting reinforcement from great people that I am indeed a worthy person. I have to get over it that the flying monkeys will never see me as anything as the person at fault and difficult. My reputation in the family social and professional circles has been damaged beyond repair by the smear campaigns. Like you, I get tired of being the dumping grounds for the dysregulated feelings of the disordered people in my life.
It does help me to remember that "not everybody passes their test". People who treat me with kindness and respect, are people my sister wants nothing to do with, and they don't pass her test to be potential flying monkeys.
Thanks for listening. Now back to doing the things I have to do to move on from all this while taking time to smell the roses!

[Notwendy]

Yes, it does get emotionally difficult. Being around my BPD mother's family is like that. I know she's told them so many untrue things about me that their impression of me has been influenced by that. I do believe that trying to change that, to try to get them to see it differently isn't possible. I don't want to try to gain their acceptance or approval. To anyone in my mother's circle- I am polite, cordial, and keep them at a distance.

I feel for you having to get into financial issues with yours. I understand the need to do this when assets are significant but understand it has to be difficult.

One way to hold your head up high is to know that these people do not know you. They know what they project on you, but that isn't you. You- the real you - have value- no matter what they think or say. Hold on to that.

[zachira]

Notwendy,
I feel that you understand the hurt and heartbreak of being judged by people who do not know me at all. My heart hurts when you describe how badly certain people treat you because they choose to believe the lies your mother has told them about you without making any effort to get to know you. I am secure enough to be able to walk away without remorse from toxic people who I have no reason to have in my life. My challenge is dealing with toxic people I am right now obligated to deal with because of financial and legal obligations, and toxic people who are part of the community in which I do have real friends who I do want to continue to have in my life.

[zachira]

Several months ago, I fired one of the key professional players who is a flying monkey of my NPD sister. I did this to end the conflict of interest. He has contacted me several times, trying to get me to pay for services already paid for, refuses to account for what the services were, or to deduct for services that were exclusively for my NPD sister and her husband. He now says he will give up on billing me. Hopefully this is the end of the billing drama and the false accusations.I have learned that sometimes I have to fight city hall, otherwise I look like I am complicit, like in this case in which there is financial fraud.
I am getting stronger, feeling more secure in who I am, not losing so much sleep over how poorly I am treated by the flying monkeys I am still stuck having some kind of contact with, which I do my best to keep as low as possible and not give out any information to them which could be used against me.
Sometimes, we have to give up on winning and move on. Sometimes, we do have to stand up for ourselves, when there is too much at stake, like financial fraud, unbearable financial loses, legal challenges that must be addressed.
I am hanging in there. I am doing well most of the time. I am compartmentalizing the financial and legal obligations I have to deal with, while feeling pretty even keeled most of the time.

[SinisterComplex]

Several months ago, I fired one of the key professional players who is a flying monkey of my NPD sister. I did this to end the conflict of interest. He has contacted me several times, trying to get me to pay for services already paid for, refuses to account for what the services were, or to deduct for services that were exclusively for my NPD sister and her husband. He now says he will give up on billing me. Hopefully this is the end of the billing drama and the false accusations.I have learned that sometimes I have to fight city hall, otherwise I look like I am complicit, like in this case in which there is financial fraud.
I am getting stronger, feeling more secure in who I am, not losing so much sleep over how poorly I am treated by the flying monkeys I am still stuck having some kind of contact with, which I do my best to keep as low as possible and not give out any information to them which could be used against me.
Sometimes, we have to give up on winning and move on. Sometimes, we do have to stand up for ourselves, when there is too much at stake, like financial fraud, unbearable financial loses, legal challenges that must be addressed.
I am hanging in there. I am doing well most of the time. I am compartmentalizing the financial and legal obligations I have to deal with, while feeling pretty even keeled most of the time.

You've shown tremendous growth Zachira. Your presence and the tone you use have certainly changed to that of more confidence and being decisive. Keep it up. If no one else says it I will...I am proud of you, but you know what? You need to be proud of YOU.

Cheers and best wishes teammate!

-SC-

[zachira]

SinisterComplex,
I am working hard on not letting the smear campaigns and cruel (some illegal) actions of my NPD sister and her flying monkeys destroy my self esteem and ability to do what I have to do. Sometimes reaching rock bottom, is the beginning of the climbing out of inaction and low self worth. I came to a point last year where I could no longer give my NPD sister and her flying monkeys what they wanted, allow them to continue to destroy my life. Some days are better than others. I have a long battle ahead of me. One of the biggest lessons for me, has been that I cannot be complicit in enabling the terrible behaviors of my NPD sister and her flying monkeys. If there were no legal or financial obligations towards her and my BPD brother, I would have gone no contact with them, as I have with people I have attracted into my life due to my trauma bonding. I appreciate your support and recognize that I have indeed come a long ways. I still have a long ways to go though, and much to learn. I am meditating nearly an hour every day, to let the frustrations go, and to get back on the horse. Thank you for your kindness and understanding. I too am proud of me!