Realistic expectations

[unicorn2014]

Formflier I take that back, 3 messages were from yesterday, all I got from him today was a good morning. I'm not going to respond to that.

[RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING]

RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members are welcomed to express frustration but must seek constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[unicorn2014]

Formflier believes limited contact with my pwBPD will solve my problem so I am writing this with that in my mind.

I wanted to address something grey kitty wrote about my pwBPD feelings and my own.

This has to do with projection, which is a different topic, but since Formflier believes that taking space will solve my problems with my pwBPD I thought to post this here rather then start a new thread.

From the projection workshop:

Commonly the projection is an exaggeration of something that has a basis in reality. For example, the borderline may accuse you of "hating" them when you just feel irritated. Sometimes the projection may come entirely from their imagination: for example, they accuse you of flirting with when you were just asking for directions to the shoe department. ~ Randi Kreger

So today the pwBPD accused me of resenting him because I told them that going to church reminded me that he  let me down since he had promised to make my life better and has failed to deliver.

That is not a resentment.

When he tells me I'm feeling a resentment he's judging me.

Furthermore he has claimed in the past that he does not feel resentment and he does not understand resentment. When he tells me I'm feeling resentment he is asserting that I am inferior to him although if you pointed that out to him he would deny it.

I know this is the improving board.

I know formflier said taking space would improve my relationship.

Everytime I try to take space the pwBPD accuses of me not wanting to talk to him.

Grey Kitty had it right when he said the pwBPD sees taking space as rejection and then reacts in a tis-for-tat manner.

[Grey Kitty]

Grey kitty, absolutely, so, what is the proper response to him based on that? Apologize?

Unless you made a huge stink and truly upset him over it, I wouldn't bring it up.

I would, however, work on those boundaries, and letting him have his feelings.

Even if his feelings are stuck in a fantasy world you find painful to join him in.

The fine line is to stay out of his fantasy world, without trying to drag him out of it. You won't always be able to hit that line perfectly, and that is OK. Do your best, and if you see yourself falling off on one side, try to get back centered as soon as you can.

Being clear to him that you won't join him there does leave him with the stark choice of going there alone, or coming out to be with you. He isn't going to LIKE being forced to make that choice, but they are his only options if you won't go in with him. Allow him to make his choice.

You do not need to explain or state this. That is the beauty of boundary enforcement--you can simply take the action of stepping away from those discussions. He will notice you aren't there.

[Grey Kitty]

$.01 : You sound pretty darn resentful to me in these topics!

$.01 : One of my boundaries was that I don't participate in conversations where I'm being told what I'm feeling or thinking. Firstly, they are completely non-productive. More importantly, they PISS ME THE F*** OFF. It is a boundary violation, and one of my buttons. So I have zero tolerance, and have at times had a hair trigger about it.

[unicorn2014]

Grey Kitty, I hear what you are saying so what would be the proper response when he sends me a picture of me smiling that he took prior to September?

Also I told him I might owe him an apology for something I said yesterday but it sounds like I don't so I won't bring it up again.

---

To bring it up to today, my daughter said she wanted to go to church tomorrow so I let people know we were coming and made arrangements to get there.

One of the things I'm feeling today is what he calls resentment because he promised me he would do things that he hasn't done. One of the results of those things would mean I wouldn't have to call someone up for a ride to church. Obtaining personal transportation for myself requires me saving up money for driving lessons which I have started doing this month.

I don't know what to do with my feelings towards him.

He keeps telling me I don't want to talk to him.

That's not true however I don't want to listen to him telling me I have a resentment because I'm having to process some very difficult and negative emotions.

Formflier thinks that taking space will solve my problem, if I understand him correctly.

Taking space from my pwBPD isn't going to change how I feel.

I'm going to feel mad at him whether I'm talking to him or not.

One of the things I might have to deal with at church tomorrow is people asking me where my pwBPD is, when is he coming out here, when are we getting married? I am going to say that he hasn't gotten divorced yet. I don't want to keep his secret anymore that he's married. Some people know he is, maybe most people know he is, but I don't want to hide that anymore. It makes me angry. Stating he's not divorced yet is a simple and direct answer.

Grey Kitty, I also do not like being told what I am feeling or thinking. I have told him many times that I do not want to be in a relationship with a person who doesn't respect what I'm thinking. I guess I could copy and paste what you said into a note and communicate that to him, that I don't like being told what I am feeling and that I will not participate in a conversation where I'm being told what I am feeling. What do you think? Should I do that? That is definitely one of the strongest sources of contention in my relationship.

Also, you're right, I may be feeling resentful, however I don't appreciate being told I'm resentful by the person who hurt me who claims not to feel resentment himself. That's like blaming the victim.

[unicorn2014]

I would, however, work on those boundaries, and letting him have his feelings.

Even if his feelings are stuck in a fantasy world you find painful to join him in.

The fine line is to stay out of his fantasy world, without trying to drag him out of it. You won't always be able to hit that line perfectly, and that is OK. Do your best, and if you see yourself falling off on one side, try to get back centered as soon as you can.

Ok here is an example of his fantasy world.

He wears a wedding ring to show he is committed to me.

He did not wear a wedding ring when he was living with his wife.

This makes me furious.

He has stopped wearing his "wedding" ring he bought to indicate he was "married" to me because the weather got cold and his finger shrunk.

That would be an example of something I feel angry about, his "wedding' ring that he wore to show he was "married" to me.

[Grey Kitty]

OK, here's how I'd do the boundary enforcement on telling you what you are thinking/feeling.

For now... .shut up. And plan what you want to say. Here's an example.

"Please don't tell me what I'm thinking. You cannot read my mind. If you wonder what I'm thinking, you can ask me." (Substitute "feeling" for "thinking" as appropriate)

Wait for it--it obviously happens now and again. If he says something about you feeling resentful, then ask him not to say that, right then when he says it.

That is an opportunity for him--he could say "I'm sorry, I shouldn't do that. Let me try again. Are you feeling resentful?"

At that point you have a choice--do you even want to share your feelings with him right then? If you are feeling safe and want to be vulnerable, you can tell him how you are feeling. If you aren't feeling safe with him at the time, you can respectfully say that you don't feel like talking about it now.

But he may not take that opportunity. He may dig himself in deeper, dysregulate, or otherwise respond inappropriately. If he does so, time to end the conversation.

[Grey Kitty]

He wears a wedding ring to show he is committed to me.

He did not wear a wedding ring when he was living with his wife.

This makes me furious.

UGH. First off, What the heck? Guys don't wear engagement rings. And sane guys don't put on wedding rings (other than checking the fit) before they get married.

And wearing it around you but not around his wife. UGH UGH UGH!

... .but what can you do about it?

First off, don't mention it to him unless he brings it up or is wearing it.

Second, if he does mention it or wear it in front of you, I'd probably say something like this. "That ring only represents your deceit for me. I never want to see it again. When you are divorced, we can talk about engagements, weddings, and rings."

[unicorn2014]

Well he did dig in deeper .

I was about to facetime him when I got a message that said

Ok I tried many times too and you were busy

I kept you informed as to what I was doing as you did not respond

You hung up on me I did not say I did not want to talk with you

So that was a hand up

Hang

Sry I was wrong you did not hang up on me... .

I did as I will not tolerate that behavior any more

When you are capable of being warm and loving and are able to stop correcting me I would be happy to be with you

I love you very much Sugar Boo

This of course made me not want to facetime him.

Form flier would say don't.

My daughter's lying asleep on the floor in the living room and I certainly don't want to wake her up with our argument nor do I want to argue for that matter.

In terms of the wedding ring I only bring it up because his contact picture had him wearing the "wedding" ring and I need to change it.

I know he is not sane.

That is what is hard for me to process.

He is a very high functioning borderline.

Its very hard for me to get that it is possible.

Do you think its some other problem besides borderline in there?

Thank you so much for walking me with through this step by step. It is a very lonely place to be and I appreciate the company very much.

He told me that as soon as he got married to his wife the second time he took off his wedding ring and gave it to her. He has bought himself two wedding rings since he has been in a relationship with me. The first was a cheap one, under $50 I think, the second was not, over $100, or more. My "engagement" ring was over a $1K.

If he ever mentions his "wedding" ring again I am going to have say something like you suggested and he is going to dysregulate. I can't say it as harsh as you said it. I don't even know what I will say at this point. I'm still trying to deal with the text I copied and pasted and then this gem.

Called

Dealing with?

Ok

Well that is fine I am still dealing with the things you have told me over the last 24 hours

---

The  sane part of our relationship is coparenting. That is the reason I stay.

[Grey Kitty]

Being honest with yourself about how you feel when he does things is a good path for you.

 I wouldn't want to talk to somebody after getting a message like that. (It is a little weird... .did you say anything in it, or is that all him?)

You say that he has that ring prominently featured in a profile pic? Is that one that you chose, or one he chose?

I won't argue that my words about the ring aren't harsh, but they are honest and unafraid of stomping on eggshells. Think about them, in two different ways.

1. How do you really feel when you see that ring? Be as direct and honest as you can about it.

If I were to get married to him years later, I honestly would feel that this specific ring is emotionally toxic, and I wouldn't want it anywhere near me or my spouse. What it would represent to me really would be ugly. but those are my feelings about it, not yours.

Think about what yours are. Not what you'd say to him, what you personally feel about it.

2. What would he think, feel, or do if he knew your feelings?

This is a separate question.

Don't censor your own feelings because of how he would react (dysregulate) to them. Yes, choose carefully if you are going to share your feelings with him. But be honest to yourself about what they are.

[unicorn2014]

Grey kitty in terms of the text, this is what he was responding to

I'm trying to deal with your text message and (my daughter) is lying on the floor behind me asleep

In terms of the ring in the profile pic that was the pic I chose to represent him in my contacts. I changed it.

In terms of how I really feel about the ring, I know other married men that don't wear rings, I know divorced men that do wear rings, I know women that are going through a divorce that haven't told people that wear rings. I feel angry about the ring. He does tell me he wears it when he's going out. He says that his way of showing he's loyal to me and telling other women he's unavailable. If that's supposed to impress me or make me feel good, it doesn't.

He would definitely dysregulate if I shared them with him.

I just had to end a facetime call with him because he was shaking his head at me while reading to me because he didn't approve of something I was doing.

He keeps telling me he enjoys being with me. If he thinks that supposed to comfort me, it doesn't. I tell him I know that and I don't doubt that. That's not the problem. He often tells me its a privilege to be in a relationship with me. That makes me angry for a couple of reasons, one of them being I don't feel all that good about myself so I don't see it that way at all and two being connected on FaceTime isn't exactly a relationship.

[Grey Kitty]

OK, whatever on the text... .a kinda disjointed mixed message with love, criticism, and some passive aggressive stuff.

As I said, there is nothing attractive in it that would make me want to talk to him, being called "Sugar Boo" or not.

This is the staying board, and the mission here is to help you improve your relationship, and I'm having trouble seeing a good path for you, as things are going. Here's what it looks like to me... .

Sometimes he's prickly and critical. (That's tough on you)

Sometimes he's showering you with affectionate statements and promises.

But when he does that, they all remind you of his deceit and betrayal of you in proposing to you when he was still married and not even effectively working toward divorce.

So the "good" stuff from him pisses you off too.

And you are sure that if you tell him how you are feeling, he will dysregulate. (But if you stuff those feelings, the resentment will just build.)

(And aside from that, he's sane as a coparent, although that is long-distance only now.)

[unicorn2014]

Grey kitty, yes and he denies being passive aggressive or critical.

After we decided to hang up FaceTime he texted me back and told me he wasn't interesting in talking to me until I could stop picking at him. It is too much to keep track of.

Yes this is the staying board.

He claims he's not used to micromanaging lawyers .

He said he's going to meet with a lawyer in the last week of this month so I'm going to see if he follows through. He has had the flu for 2 weeks and he has been working on work projects.

[Grey Kitty]

 

No need to tell him he's being passive aggressive or critical.

And no need to engage with him when he is either. (Simple boundary enforcement. Just don't do much engaging when he's being difficult!)

If you don't enjoy being spoken to that way, say you aren't happy, or say goodbye. Perhaps he'll figure it out. Perhaps he'll ask you what he did wrong. Until *HE* is interested in behaving better, you aren't going to have success nagging him into it.


Stop micromanaging him on managing lawyers.

Don't ask him in the last week of the month if he met with a lawyer or not. Sure, note it on your calendar. But don't ask him about it. He's already telling you more than you want to  hear (mostly truly lame excuses why nothing is happening, or he cannot prove to you that anything is happening) about his divorce.

[unicorn2014]

Grey kitty he mentioned the lawyer because he was telling me when he would get a break in his schedule. I'm the one who told him he should focus on earning money first.

Thank you for sticking with me through this.

[Grey Kitty]

I've recommending you avoid ASKING about lawyers and divorce progress because it has become a sore spot where you are nagging him (and he's being pretty lame and avoiding making effective progress from the sound of it).

If he brings it up, that is different. When he's got something to say, do listen to him. Even ask for details or clarification based on what he says if it feels reasonable.

There are somethings that are outside your control and aren't your business. No need to get involved at all.

This is outside your control, but it is your business as long as you are in a relationship with him.

[unicorn2014]

Grey kitty he did bring it up to tell me he will be meeting with a lawyer in between projects which is acceptable to me. I have no problem with what is going on today. It is what happened up until September that I have a problem with. Now I am defining the relationship on my terms and I feel much better about it.

I will heed your advice.