Haven`t heard back... What is she even thinking during this time?

[t204]

desperate need of input/advice.
I spent 5 years with someone i am 99% sure has some sort of disorder that went ignored. We are both 40, both divorced, both have kid(s).
we recently broke up over a stupid fight. We have been on/off for awhile due to stupid fights. Normally after a fight I would let her cool down and she would contact me a day or 2 later. This time we have had very little contact and its been 3 weeks. The fight went like this. She called me in the morning a typical thing to do. I was rushing to get ready cause i wanted to bring her breakfast so i was short on the phone I admit. She took that as insult and told me to have a great life and hung up. I tried to call back right away and she declined my call and text me back and started a big fight that i didn't care about her and a liar i wasn't bringing her breakfast. Havent heard back from her regardless of my effort of contacts and asking to talk about this.
She is in a position in her life where her mouth and rants have stopped the majority of people in her life to cut her off and treat her cold (family).
We can be having the greatest of time together and if one thing sets her off the evening is ruined and she will go the whole night taking jabs at me and being rude or nasty with comments.
In the past i did mention to her that she should consider seeing a doctor because her moods switch so frequently and easily. I didn't say that in a mean way and tried my best to sugar coat it as normal but maybe needs some sort of vitamin.
I love this lady with all of me. I was always there and willing to spend time with her, she would always accuse me of staring at others and that would make me very frustrated cause I honestly had no interest in gawking or talking to anyone else. I learnt for myself when these accusations would arise and started to quickly move to make her feel easy. ex: If i noticed a female coming in our direction that would make her feel i was interested I would grab her hand or put my arm around her. after a few of those moments i did notice the commenting slowed down to basically none.
She got in a disagreement with my mom once and since has refused to visit my parents.
she avoided at all costs prior to that argument and still to this day any of my family gatherings. (I was the one with the invisible partner).
She showed little to no interest in spending time with my kids as well.
She has never apologized to anyone for anything, Including me.

a part of me really wanted to show her that people don`t hate her and that her presence is wanted. She continued to blow that off.

Our final fight about the breakfast is a new experience. I sincerely love and care for her and just want her to see how stupid this is and that she should consider seeing a doctor. when we had little contact my last msg was.
I love you to much for this, I cant be your text buddy, Ill respect if you only see me as that now, but i don`t want that in my life.
Haven`t heard back...
What are people with this even thinking during this time?

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[once removed]

whats going on today t204? have you heard back?

[t204]

Hi, she did contact but it wasn’t what I even imagined she would say. Was very short, cold and basically confusing.
She text me to say she wants to be happy and that she seen a old friend of mine out and about and found out things about me that made her feel we are better off broken up and that she always knew I wasn’t meant for her and he clarified it. I asked what she was talking about and she said good bye have a great life, you need a younger female so you can understand eachother.
After that I called this friend to ask. Completely dumb founded, hasn’t seen her at all nor has his wife, neither of them knows her phone number or vice versa. . He told me she must be crazy, and that I’m better off walking away if she is going to pull stunts like this.
I still have not initiated contact with her. I did the first couple days short and brief to try and ask what’s wrong and can we talk. She started saying I was harassing her and to leave her alone. So I did completely leave her alone. That lead to her coming at me with this story now about talking to someone about me...   if she found someone else that’s fine. I can go forward. I don’t know what to expect at this point though, don’t know if she will come around.
Very confused, hurt. I feel that I have gave a lot of myself to her in these 5 years, treated her son like my own, loved being with her family to. I tried to control my emotions when she would flip out at the strangest of things or call me down.
I don’t know what to do at this point.

[once removed]

it sounds like there is more going on with her, and by that, im being deliberately vague; would be really hard to say what. but it sounds like she was spoiling for a fight. her story about the friend is odd, though for future reference, i dont recommend calling her on it.

youre doing the right thing here. youve been available, tried to talk, and backed off when she asked. its hard to be okay with the idea that youve done your best.

she may come around. if she does, you will need a game plan. have you considered what that might look like? are you seeing a therapist?

[t204]

I have not seen any therapist as of yet. I still see it as prettt fresh. I’m expecting the worst simply because I know how none of her family will make plans with her or invite her anywhere. Only people that do are her friends and immediate family. She has never apologized to anyone ever. If I’ve heard her say “sorry” ever she would giggle it off afterwards. Her past relationships never lasted longer than 5 years in total 4 with me being the 4th. I should have seen this coming as when she would tell me why things never worked out it was never her fault for any. I found that a bit odd once we were official together and I met her ex husband who seems very down to earth and normal. Fairly shy and just avoids conversation with her altogether but was more than fine talking to me. I was starting to slowly give up on her when nothing I did was good enough or she started calling me names, calling my family names. Once she started calling my kids names I pretty much lost hope in her. It does sting a lot cause I knew something wasn’t right in my gut but figured maybe she is stressed about things at work etc. And doesn’t want to bring them up.
In 5 years she came to 1 of my family get together and I grew tired of always making excuses for why she was absent. Do I love her and care for her? Absolutely I do, I miss the person I fell in live with though. I do not miss or want this one who’s full of hate and made comments I would knock a mans teeth out over.
I was married 13 years and have a healthy respect with my ex as well as her new man. We can laugh and joke around and call just to see how we are doing and how kids are behaving.
My now ex wife I must admit, in the 13+ years we were together NEVER gave me the stress or made me feel the way I do from meeting and falling for this now ex of just 5 years. She completely sucked every drop of energy and drive I had. I just want to move forward. If she ever got help I may consider letting her back in my life but it would be a a pace that she would hate and leave again.
I do care that I would be ok helping her because I do feel she has a side worth fighting for. Unfortunately she has been unable to show that side recently. Maybe she showed it 30% of the time.

[t204]

Just a update for advice. So this morning I’m driving and with my luck so is she. Stuck behind her in traffic. Don’t think anything of it as we live near and drive the same direction for work. But 5 mins later she sends a text that she thinks she seen me and if so “hello”. I replied that yes I noticed and hello. That was that nothing further. Is it safe to assume she is just being mature and over this and has moved on or was this some sort of attempt to talk? I was surprised she actually did that though. Wasn’t expecting that after the last post story.

[once removed]

Is it safe to assume she is just being mature and over this and has moved on or was this some sort of attempt to talk?

i dont think its safe to assume anything at this point, either about the encounter, or in general. it is certainly not a bad sign, but its also not anything you want to act on, beyond your polite response.

i know this is tough. its a waiting game, really, and theres not a lot to be done, and in the sense of not making things worse (the big problem we usually see on this board), you are doing a great job.

have you gotten into the lessons and tools directly to the right of the board? its a good idea to put a lot of your energy there during this time, because if she comes back tomorrow, there is really significant conflict that will still be on the table.

[t204]

Hi, I have actually been reading a lot lately and trying to understand this type really hard.
I’m at a point where I feel bad for the person. I have a cleare picture of ways I could have handled a few times differently. I though towards the end she was bi polar and never knew or heard of BPD until I searched what was going on with us. I stumbled on this and I’m no doctor but this really hit the nail on the head for me. Basically everything listed became common behaviour, so common and real I found it disturbing to keep reading it but now I’m interested in learning more about it. I would be lying to myself to say I hate or regret anything with her. I learnt from this experience but I feel bad for her. I hope she does see it and finds herself and does go see someone about it. It is the hardest and most confusing thing I have ever seen.
She hasn’t said anything suicidal however oand I think she seems ok. She looked ok anyway when we “bumped in” earlier today.
Basically I just don’t want any drama my way and don’t want to see anything bad happen to her as well. I’m just hoping for the best but preparing myself for a wrath to come my way for some reason.

[once removed]

compassion is a good thing.

dont let it drive your relationship dynamic, or whether you want to be in a relationship with her.

Basically I just don’t want any drama my way and don’t want to see anything bad happen to her as well. I’m just hoping for the best but preparing myself for a wrath to come my way for some reason.

what are you thinking could happen?

[t204]

If she got help I wouldn’t sweep a relationship with her under a rug. If she doesn’t see it and just continues day to day I don’t want anything relationship wise.
Past break ups were different and couple days or a week later she would text and flirt. This time, nothing at all flirting wise. At first it was bitter anger and hate words.
The fact she made up a story about talking to someone I know I find concern about. I really wouldn’t put much past her if she’s in a rage. Contacting my kids to complain about me? Smash out the car windows? Who knows at this point. If all she needs is someone to talk to I think I can keep a safe distance and just let her go off. That’s what I mean, I think I’m understanding this but doubt it and have a pile of questions regarding how this unfolded and what’s happened since

[once removed]

you should know that its very difficult to get another person in therapy, especially if they dont believe there is a problem.

as for your concerns, do take appropriate precautions. if the two of you are not speaking/fighting, and given she reached out in a friendly manner, vindictive behavior on her end seems unlikely right now.

That’s what I mean, I think I’m understanding this but doubt it and have a pile of questions regarding how this unfolded and what’s happened since

do you mean questions for us, or for her? if you have questions for us please fire away, we are here to help.

[t204]

My questions are really just general. Only she could actually answer properly, and I’m not willing to even go there for answers.
She ended things with harsh words and actions. She said forget it we can’t be together, you deserve better, we arnt meant to be, we been fighting to much, on and on. But I would still love to be friends. I text next day to ask if we can talk and she started saying I was harassing her. That’s when I dropped all contact all together. She tried again to remain friends. My response was that If she was sure she wanted to break up I can’t stay friends with her either and for her to move forward and went back to the no contact. She then text to say fine have a great life. Again no contact.
If she knows I said I do not wish to be friends and don’t require a text buddy either why wouldn’t she just go along with how I was this morning? Yes your a car in front and beside me but oh well. That’s how I was thinking and seeing it then bang text comes through. Threw me off

[once removed]

I text next day to ask if we can talk and she started saying I was harassing her.

sometimes there are little "tricks" we can recommend that can help in the short term that include being light, up beat, confident and attractive, that sort of thing. it gets tricky when someone requests no contact or says its harassing, and in all circumstances, its wise, and even attractive, to heed that.

My response was that If she was sure she wanted to break up I can’t stay friends with her either

i noticed that above you mention that you would still love to be friends. are you feeling conflicted about being friends or not? if so, its understandable.

If she knows I said I do not wish to be friends and don’t require a text buddy either why wouldn’t she just go along with how I was this morning?

sometimes people just do awkward things in an awkward situation. its not a bad sign. it means she cared enough to reach out. it doesnt mean read more into it, but it does mean theres some space for more to follow, potentially.

[t204]

A part of me yes would like to talk to her but I know it would just end up being a fight. I’m avoiding the fight.
Maybe down the road once I feel more stable I would be more open to conversation. Right this moment I don’t feel it would be the greatest idea.
A part of me misses her terribly, but same time a part of me knows what would come with it.
It’s very confusing, I have a lot of mixed emotions but I know going back with her not seeing anyone is a big no no.
I miss a lot of good qualities she had and fun we had. However I miss a lot of things me and my ex wife did too. Doesn’t mean I would go back.
It does sting a lot. I think most of me just wants her to be ok. I think I should be with someone that is a little more stable.

[t204]

It does make me feel a bit better that she had it in her to send that message today though. For the fact she left so angry an made me feel like total trash and wanted nothing from me before.
I felt pretty low about that cause what she meant to me prior to all this.
Gave me a comfort zone I guess that disputes all that was said she obviously still has my number and did say hi. Maybe that’s odd or against the grain?

[once removed]

A part of me yes would like to talk to her but I know it would just end up being a fight. I’m avoiding the fight.
Maybe down the road once I feel more stable I would be more open to conversation. Right this moment I don’t feel it would be the greatest idea.

i think that this is wise and self aware. one thing i learned from when my relationship ended was that acting on impulse, desperation, uncertainty, whatever, was usually a bad idea. it wont hurt you or your situation to give things time to "sleep on it" and get some space, i promise.

its a really tough place to be in, part of you has begun to grieve the relationship, and part of you is in limbo and not sure what to expect. you may feel very differently tomorrow, and very differently than that the next day (or maybe not, but expect a level of ups and downs). i was in that place for a few months, and can tell you it gets better whichever way it goes. and truth be told, we do advise members on this board to consider the old relationship "dead", and any new iteration to be a new relationship with a very different approach. in other words, some level of detachment and grieving can be healthy.

[once removed]

Maybe that’s odd or against the grain?

not necessarily. BPD is a shame based disorder. odds are she doesnt want you to think badly of her, and she may regret lashing out.

[t204]

Thanks, I hope so. I am very bothered by this whole thing. Something I never seemed to think would go this far. I know it is for the best to just keep away for awhile.
I just been doing my own things, using prayer to get past it all and whatever happens next.
Pretty firm believer that if someone says they don’t want you and sound firm to let them walk away. Been trying to drill that in me every time she comes to mind also.
Very difficult, many break downs in the beginning. Just trying to keep positive for myself.

[t204]

update to add more confusion.
after that text she sent she seems to have been texting a lot now.
I agreed to talk on the phone with her that same night when she asked if she could call.
she was hysterical on the phone and could barley speak 2 words at a time.
I had to keep telling her to relax and breathe. She kept going on and on of
-How ashamed she was of herself
-Doesnt deserve anyone
-hates herself
-hates how she flips on the people she loves and knows they love her to
-she scared and doesnt feel like living like this
-mentioned she thought of just jumping off a bridge cause it would be easier.

I managed to calm her down. I asked what was on her mind and bothering her to that point. once she stopped crying she started talking normal and asked if i would go to the gym with her sometime. I replied sure.
she has been contacting me everyday now. Not saying she wants to come back or anything. She said all she wants is a solid commitment and that 4.5 years we should have been somewhere in life already? I answered that with being engaged at a 4 year mark seems alright timing in my opinion  but i let her go on and express herself. Im having a difficult time believing much of what she says though these days. I have a hunch she is talking to someone now cause her phone kept going off which is odd.
She keeps saying she wants to do things and go places and hasnt asked me to join in anything... Could this be that she realizes I gave up and she has moved on?
why the phone calls and texts all of a sudden like this? what is common opinions for this?
Please! 

[once removed]

She keeps saying she wants to do things and go places and hasnt asked me to join in anything... Could this be that she realizes I gave up and she has moved on?
why the phone calls and texts all of a sudden like this? what is common opinions for this?

the long and short of it is that you gave her the space she asked for and shes having a change of heart.

She said all she wants is a solid commitment and that 4.5 years we should have been somewhere in life already?

this is significant. people with BPD traits tend to push for big commitments out of fear and need. you will find that people with BPD traits act out their insecurities rather than clearly communicate them. trying to get to the bottom line emotion that is driving everything can be challenging to say the least.

with her contacting you every day, you have the option to take the lead and steer things back into a romantic relationship; i think you dont really want to be her friend or counselor. do you want to try to move this into romantic territory?

I have a hunch she is talking to someone now cause her phone kept going off which is odd.

youve mentioned this a couple of times, and it is hugely important here. do you believe she is seeing someone?

[t204]

I do not believe she is seeing someone but I do believe she is talking online long distance to someone. Only because a mutual friend mentioned he thought she was and has been callin her crazy etc. He doesn’t know details.

[once removed]

I do believe she is talking online long distance to someone

romantically?

[t204]

I think so but how romantic could it be in just shy of a month and it’s long distance? I’m not sure what to think. She is quiet today and only msgs once asking how my day was. I just said good but busy. That was the end of that.

[once removed]

if shes hitting you up every day, and you want her back, this is an opportunity to stand firm and lead things back into romantic territory.

do you want to do that? or are you looking just to navigate the conversations with her?

[t204]

I’m not sure I want this situation back. She wants to come over for dinner today though. I’m standing my grounds though. I’m actually nervous somewhat.

[once removed]

when you say youre standing your ground, do you mean you told her she cannot come over for dinner today?

[t204]

Standing ground as in she has wanted to call a few times. And I think trying to get back to either a friend thing or more. I have kept putting it off past few days. I said we will say if Friday works. Well now it’s friday and she expecting it. She has said a few flirty things but I just pretended I didn’t hear it

[once removed]

it sounds like youre doing a few things:

1. supporting her as a friendly ear
2. giving her a bit of the cold shoulder
3. expecting her to take the hint

i dont think this is a strategy thats going to work in tandem. if you want to be a supportive friendly ear, be one. define for yourself what that entails and doesnt entail. if it means being non responsive to flirtation, okay, but expect that she may keep it up. she inherently struggles with appropriate boundaries. those are up to you to determine and enforce.

if youre playing hard to get (im not saying you are; my sense is that youre both conflicted and reluctant.) then that can work as a strategy to get her to up the ante (which shes doing), but its not necessarily a clear direction in terms of how you want this to play out. what happens if she comes over and puts the moves on? we see this all the time: member hangs out with the ex with the goal of playing it by ear, things get frisky, someone gets cold feet the next day, member gets hurt and confused.

if youre trying to wean her off and get some space, its an okay strategy and essentially one id recommend. it relies on her getting the hint though, which may or may not happen. if you want space id do one of two things: tell her you need space, or be really really boring.

i know youre understandably nervous and that all of this is not intuitive. its still very important to have a clear game plan, there is still the potential for you to get hurt here.

what are your thoughts?

[t204]

Thanks,
Well I feel lots of emotion for her on many levels. I don’t want a replay of this past few months. I’m not giving her a total blow off. I do respond to her and ask how everything is etc. Not just with her but her family also. I try to keep her from going all hysterical like she was the other day. It seems to work she even jokes a wee bit. The flirt hints she’s dropped. I blew those off like I didn’t hear it. Not cause I don’t want to hear it but I want it to actually mean something. I don’t want to be hurt again. This break up drained me to rock bottom. The fact that she was full of indirect apologies gave me some faith in her. Atleast she made it clear and is aware how she reacted. Still no apology though. Not verbally but on a text she did.
I’m trying to keep a open mind and willing to listen to her. I am willing to have dinner with her. I don’t hate her and I’m not angry with her anymore. I just want peace, respect, affection, love and all positive things.
I don’t live in a dream I know that’s not possible 24/7 and people argue. I just want it handled different.

[once removed]

The flirt hints she’s dropped. I blew those off like I didn’t hear it. Not cause I don’t want to hear it but I want it to actually mean something. I don’t want to be hurt again.

keep in mind youve had some time to learn more about yourself, the relationship, her, etc. youve worked through some of the lessons and tools and can see the forest through the trees, a bit. this is likely not the case for her, shes operating in the same impulsive way, and "doing her". she likely doesnt know what she wants. so youre both operating on somewhat different pages. at this stage, thats okay, and getting on the same page is a place to get to once/if there is an established relationship, but you want to be on the same page with yourself, if that makes sense.

whats your game plan for dinner? are there any particular things you want to discuss, or do you prefer to mostly listen?