Thin line between invalidation and validation

[Lollypop]

Hi

I had a conversation with BPDs26 the other day and I've been reflecting on it.  The topic, journey of discussion and end (one where we cannot agree) is a repeated one over the last 10 years.

I felt that I am learning how to deal with it better with my improved communication skills and awareness of BPDs traits.  This time my BPDs sent me a text within an hour apologising for being such a "shXX" so I guess he reflected too.

My BPDs smokes weed every day, sometimes a lot more depending on his emotional state and it can get out of hand.  I've never allowed drugs or paraphenalia in our house - one golden rule, the only rule actually that was followed.

This rule has caused, to my BPDs perception, much pain and stress.  I would tell him if his room reeked, if I could smell him, he would hate for me to see him high - the consequence of this was that BPDs would stay away from the house the majority of the time and only come home after he knew we'd gone to bed.  There's been lots of other drugs tried throughout a 15 year period.  He's not functioned because of them, but BPDs sees they've "got him through".  

His drug use has crept into our environment.  His room smells, he smells, he comes home high and has been an embarrassment to our younger son with his friends, the inside of his car is unbelievable.  I won't go into safety or legal issues as I know already.

Since BPDs came home we have seen such improvements.  These improvements would never have happened if I'd kept to my old way of approach "give up the drugs then we'll start from there".  Bpds hasn't sought treatment because that WAS the mental health's approach too.

GF told me a couple of weeks ago that BPDs hopes to give up all drugs at some point in time.  I told her I was surprised as Bpds never mentions anything negative about drugs, only the positives.  As our environment is becoming a bit horrible for us I thought I should try again.

Our conversation went something like this:

M:  I just wanted to say to you how much we all love you and care about you.  We all hate it that you smoke so much weed and I wanted you to know that.  We hope that one day you'll be able to stop.

S: And I hate you drinking.  I know that you love me. I do hope to stop one day and I'm giving everything up, smoking, sugar, everything.  :)on't you realise that alcohol is linked to 8 cancers and it's caused far more harm that drugs ever have.  It's your fault that I moved to Ketamine because you used to go on about me smelling.  But you never told me off for getting drunk all the time.  You never did that and that's just wrong, alcohol is way more of a problem than any of the drugs I've ever taken.

M: I know all about alcohol son and its damages.  It's not my fault you took Ketamine and I never realised that you got drunk all the time (I think he was referring to an age between 15-18 when he did drink on a Friday or Saturday night with his friends "bus stop" sort of behaviour).

S:  I used to buy a 4 pack of Red Stripe and drink it on the way home from work just to bring me down.

M:  I never knew that you had a problem with alcohol.  I'm just saying to you that we love you and care about you and we're worried, that's all.

S:  You can't stand there and say anything about drugs when you've not done any yourself.  You've no idea what you're missing.  :)on't you realise how much art you would produce after taking mushrooms?  It's amazing.  So don't be so judgmental. Actually you can't judge me on this because you know nothing about it.  I can't believe your ignorance, you inflexibility to see my point of view and you've no right to say anything about this because you've never experienced it. You really need to.  

(I'm cutting a lot out here because BPDs started going on about how much we drank on holiday this year, his memory of growing up with drink.  I don't believe we're much different then any other western modern family - yes, we drink and most probably more than we should.  I tried to explain that culturally we were raised differently.  It's clear that he hates us having a drink, particularly when he wasn't allowed to smoke weed to chill out at the end of a big day.  Golden rule: no drugs on holiday which he managed with some difficulties.)

M:  I don't need to take anything thanks.  I'm perfectly fine as I am.  

S:  But you see God.

M:  There's millions of people out there that see God and they don't need to take a drug to do so.  

S:  I believe in him.

M:  Listen to me.  You've spent about 15 years taking drugs and during that time you've not been able to function.  When you've spent 15 years clean then we can have this conversation again.  You might have a different perspective.

I got a text later apologising.  He knows he can bully and be forceful, particularly where drugs are concerned.  He has tried to convince people to take them in the past.  I worry about his GF.  He's just so eloquent and convincing anybody weak caves in to his way of thinking.  He can be very controlling.

So OK.

I get that I didn't validate.  Because I don't agree with what he's saying he gets frustrated.  I just can't agree with any drug taking.

Because I'm not validating then I'm invalidating his feelings about how good drugs are.  But I can't agree that drugs are good.

I also get that the conversation was way, way too long.

I believe that we could have stuck our feet in the ground and refused him back to our house while he was using.  This would have been the correct thing to do theoretically.  Bpds is ingrained in the drug culture and I doubt he will ever stop using.  We took him back into the house so help him find a way to function and live independently.  :)rugs took a back seat for us to do this.

I'd like to get this conversation right next time.  Out of all the BPDs behaviours, the drug use is one of our massive objections.  As BPDs situation is improving and he progresses steadily with us supporting him the drug use is rearing its ugly head.  It's like we're chipping away, bit by bit at everything, dealing with one thing at a time.  

It's tough balancing between tenatively getting him to progress, not giving in to him about everything, sharing our space together

Any thoughts would be very much appreciated.

L

PS.  The time is coming when he needs to move out! 

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[livednlearned]

He engages you in switch tracking 

You introduce a topic, his response introduces a new one. Given he has BPD, you two both do a really good job hanging in there without things escalating.

One way to stay in your lane (since he may not be able to stay in his) is to allow yourself to engage his topic.

Would it be ok to recognize that yes, you can see room for improvement when it comes to alcohol intake? Separate it out from his drug use, they are not the same, and model for him what it looks like to be vulnerable in the face of difficult feedback.

My T always tells me to give my son gifts in these kinds of conversations, to let him be one-up and at the same time, show him how to graciously consider feedback.

Our struggle is over computer use -- S15 is addicted, I don't care whether people think that's a thing or not. He uses computer gaming to self-soothe and it's a problem. He would say that I am on the computer all the time (trying to finish my degree and spending time here), and it would make me feel defensive because I have balance in my life whereas he does not.

I learned to stay in his lane and agree with him even when he is partially correct. I would like to spend less time on the computer. What suggestions does he have that he thinks might work? Maybe there is something we can do together, and maybe we can compare notes about how computer use makes us feel better or worse. How much is too much? Can we agree to spend some time together and talk about what we miss that the computer provides? What the computer cannot provide.

That kind of thing.

He does not use his computer less. He is more thoughtful, though, and I have a feeling that over time he will begin to internalize what we talk about and make improvements.

Lose the battle, win the war 

[Lollypop]

Thank you.

Absolutely just what I needed.

Hugs

L

[Lollypop]

My BPD is so much more thoughtful, m-in-law arrived today and noticed. I know and feel we are in the right track. I think it's a bit scary allowing him a gift in this topic but you're right, I'll demonstrate as best I can.

Thanks again
L

[Rockieplace]

I'm really impressed that you were able to sustain the conversation and keep it relatively amicable.  It's really hard not to fall into the trap of trying to win the argument!  Well done.

When you are dealing with an addict, whether it is drugs, alcohol, gambling or whatever, they are bound to defend their addiction by any means available.  My h gets very defensive when I chastise him for drinking too much too.  I do think you can validate your son in respect to alcohol.  My family have been plagued by damage done by alcohol abuse and it practically ruined my childhood, my husband's childhood and killed my bother-in-law at the age of 51.  It is still reeking havoc in our lives right now by the damage it is doing to other members of the family.  My BPDD's use of 'weed' and other drugs, I believe contributed to the wretched position she is now in too. 

From my personal experience I'm very conscious that it is a slippery slope with alcohol and always try to have at least two alcohol free days a week and never to have more than a glass or two of wine on the other days. (I don't always succeed though - my BPDD can drive me to drink in a flash!)  I think that your son is right, therefore, that the abuse or dependency on alcohol can ruin lives just as easily as other drugs.  You are therefore also right to be saddened that his dependency on weed has wreaked such havoc in his life and is probably the reason why he won't seek help.  So frustrating when he obviously has the potential to be a much more rounded and fulfilled person.

[Lollypop]

Hi RP

it doesn't really matter what our choice of drug is I guess.  We all seek comfort to help ease the pain.

I like your suggestion about moderation and am glad this approach works for you. I tend to go in spells and sometimes have complete dry months.  Like you, my H likes a drink and socialising in a pub.  It's all about balance but as you say it can be a slippery slope.

I hope your are well and that your daughter is achieving some level of stability. Also that this helps you and your husband to spend some better quality time together without BPD being so prominent. It can be achieved but it's jolly hard work!

L