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Author Topic: 15yo daughter with many challenging behaviors. uBPDx = mom...  (Read 8728 times)
kells76
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Gender: Female
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Romantic partner’s ex
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« Reply #60 on: April 16, 2024, 11:39:25 AM »

This is the most difficult stuff. You have a lot of variables going on; the fact that she's 15 is not a small thing.

Going back to your original question, of if D15 has BPD, have you read Blaise Aguirre's book Borderline Personality Disorder in Adolescents yet? My takeaway was that understanding the function of the behaviors is important, as many impulsive yet "developmentally normal" teen behaviors appear on the surface like BPD behaviors. What function is doing X (reckless driving, drug use, backtalk, sneaking out, etc) serving? He also talks about your question -- is it BPD or not -- and makes some parenting recommendations either way. My sense is that it's not like chemotherapy, where if you don't have cancer, it'll really hurt you. Parenting a child "as if" the child has BPD likely won't make things worse if the child doesn't. Unfortunately the book deals with situations where both parents are on the same page about the approach; it doesn't touch on when parents are divorced and the child has BPD-type issues.

The other book I thought of for your situation is Combating Cult Mind Control: The Guide to Protection, Rescue and Recovery from Destructive Cults by Steven Hassan. I'm not saying that having a BPD parent is equivalent to being in a cult necessarily. I think what I'm getting at is you have so many moving parts going on, and each person you speak to or book you read or site you visit "kind of" helps with part of your situation, but nothing really helps with everything. You may find that reading outside of BPD literature could give you perspective on an approach to try (or a piece of an approach to try) with D15 that could inch you forward.

I haven't read Hassan's book in a few years but the preview jogged my memory -- that his approach isn't convincing others that they're seeing things wrong, it's saying "Look, you're telling me that you're making these decisions out of your own free will, that you're thinking for yourself, and that nobody is pressuring you. OK, so then there shouldn't be a problem with us talking about your beliefs? If I point something out to you, then you can handle talking about it and thinking about it, right? If your beliefs are sound, then there won't be a problem with applying this decision-making toolkit to them." It's a respectful approach that "assumes" the person has curiosity and research skills.

He steers away from the "deprogramming" or "intervention" approaches, and has tried to build a legal, ethical, and respectful approach to intervening with loved ones totally taken in by harmful groups.

Interestingly, it strikes me as similar to Dr. Xavier Amador's book I am Not Sick I Don't Need Help!, in that both books emphasize that fighting delusion head-on through logical argument, force, coercion, and convincing, aren't effective.

While neither of those is a solution on its own, maybe you can roll some of their ideas into your approach. Both books can be fast reads; I'd recommend taking a look if you haven't yet.

...

I can say that even for us -- where SD18 from age ~6 had told H "you're not my family", would defend Mom, would blame Dad, would use Mom's language of "you left us", would refuse what minimal parenting time and overnights H had, and seemed 110% sucked into the "shared family mythos [delusion]" between Mom and Stepdad -- SD18 is now open with us that she does not like the environment there, if SD15 wasn't there she probably wouldn't be either, she wishes Mom and Stepdad would be actual adults parenting, and that it's high conflict over there. I'm not saying "sit back and do nothing, it'll work out" -- SD18 and SD15 will have a lot of pain to work through -- but more to say that even us, fumbling our way through, with minimal time with the kids, with minimal avenues to point out the toxicity, with no custody or decision making, and with 180 degree different cultural beliefs, have seen SD18 start to come back around.

...

Has D15 texted anything else telling you not to talk to her T?

Did you let the T know that you'd read other material on alienation?

And is D15 still doing parenting time with you?
« Last Edit: April 16, 2024, 11:41:21 AM by kells76 » Logged
Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders
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« Reply #61 on: April 26, 2024, 03:54:19 PM »

Hi Kells,

I thought I responded a while ago - apologies - thanks as always for your thoughtful comments and suggestions.

Updates...
- I'm about halfway through Aguirre's (Wrath of God?) book. 
- I've been testing the indirect deprogramming approach.
- D15 has not made any additional comments about her T or me communicating with her T, although I don't have visibility to their meeting schedule. Still, could be an indication that the T has tightened up her approach, if that's what you were getting at.  TBD.
- D15 is still with me 50% of the time, but consistently seeks ways to transition back to her mom early
- uBPDxw ignored the schedule and booked spring break travel with kids partially during my parenting time; subsequently agreed to makeup days - 2nd week in May.  I'll be watching to see how D15 responds to "extra" time with me

A new development is that uBPDxw scheduled a meeting with D13's school counselor - she mentioned it via email, but didn't forward the meeting invitation or zoom link and I missed the meeting - which is on me.  The upside is that I ended up with a 1:1 meeting with the counselor who stated that no anxiety is present, D13 is a great kid, etc.

In parallel, D13's PsyD has communicated 1:1 with me that she does not see anxiety, but does see disparagement, etc., from my uBPDxw...  her eyes are open, and we had a candid discussion about validating uBPDxw's feelings without necessarily prescribing prozac simply because it's what the mom wants.  Encouraging. 

I'm going to sit with this for a minute. 

Which brings me to my question du jour...

In our last session in March, D13's PsyD mentioned that one of D13's biggest concerns is "when her parents fight" - I don't think uBPDxw even heard the comment in the moment, she was enraged that the doctor had not capitulated to her demand for prozac...   

In the course of follow up with uBPDxw, I returned to this:

"D13's doctor noted that one of D13's biggest concerns is "when parents fight" - What can we do about this?

Please let me know how I can help reduce conflict?  I don't expect that we'll always agree, however I'm open to dialog about how we cooperate.

Thanks for considering."

Days went by, but today I received the following response from uBPDxw:

"I am confused about your question re/ "when parents fight."

I am sure that this WAS a concern for D13, and anxiety-producing, as I am sure it was with all the kids...when we were living together.

The reality is that the kids do not see or hear us fight anymore. We don't see each other, so we don't have much time to fight. I am unclear on how this impacts D13 in her day-to-day life. I accept that it is a past Trauma that should be addressed in therapy, but I don't see how this is a current issue that we should be doing something to change. We already changed it."


I'm still letting this one sink in.

This comes from a person who never misses a chance to give side-eye at transitions or in situations where we are both present - as baseline behavior.  The kids routinely see an overt  show of distress or dismay or disapproval (X toward me) whenever we're both present.

And there have been instances in which my X has overtly started arguments in front of the kids - when we had to renew passports together, for example.

Taking a minute to decide how - or even if - to respond to this one.
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