Just when I thought it was getting better...

[uniqueson]

Hello,
Relieved to find that there's a forum where I can connect to other parents. My 22 year old daughter is working part-time, lives at home and *seemed* to be improving in terms of mood stability, focus, goal setting, etc.  She also was attending AA meetings and that seemed to make a big difference.

Fast forward to last night: we bought a used car (not a cheap one, $30K all-in with insurance, warranties, etc.) so she could commute to work. She's been staying out until 1, or 2am--much to the distress of me and my husband, as she's often over friend's houses in dodgy towns. Last night we said "you live under our roof, you need to be home by midnight". Long story short, she came home, but started a titanic fight with my husband and insisted that the car was hers and that we had no right to tell her when she was to be home.

How are you dealing with limit setting with your (legally) adult child when you're worried about poor decision making, impulsivity, etc.?  We are at wit's end and honestly, I just wish that she would move out--which makes me feel like an unfeeling jerk of a mother who doesn't love her child...But my husband and I are in our 60's, he's a disabled veteran with lots of health issues and it's stressing us out to be trying to deal with this.

Help.

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[Pook075]

Hello Unique and welcome.  Oh boy, I remember those years vividly and they aren't fun at all.  Unfortunately, you probably won't like what I'm about to say.

First, the car is in your name (or your husband's), correct?  That means its your car.  She lives in your house.  Probably talks on your cellphone (which she calls hers).  Eats your food.  Sleeps in your bed.  Sits on your couch.  Uses your bathroom.

Can you see the pattern here?  All that stuff is yours.  The fact that you provide her those things or share them with her doesn't make any of it hers.

With BPD, boundaries are often pushed or rejected due to insecurity and instability.  You need to have a conversation though and clearly explain that she's driving your car and living in your home.  Each of those things have rules attached to them.  If she doesn't like your rules, that's not a problem at all...she can make other arrangements and do things however she wants.  But if it's your house, your car, your cell phone, etc, then it's your rules.

I can also tell you what will happen next; this conversation won't go well.  She'll be furious and scream.  Maybe she becomes violent or unstable.  That's okay though, that's why there's boundaries in the first place.  Your house, your rules.  That's what every parent does (BPD or not) and you don't have to accept bad behavior. 

If she threatens you, dial 9-1-1.  If she threatens self harm, dial 9-1-1.  Then let the ambulance take her away while she stays at the hospital for a day or two and eventually gets transferred to a psych facility for a short term stay.

That sounds horrifying, I know, but life has rules and consequences.  If you bend the rules for her now, then she'll bend them the rest of her life and continually manipulate others around her to get whatever she wants.  That works for a short while, but ultimately it leads to failed relationships and so much heartbreak.  Bending the rules empowers her to rebel more and more over time, which gives her confidence that the world around her is the problem...not herself.  That's the opposite of what you're hoping to achieve.

I did this with my BPD daughter; we kicked her out at 19, took her back at 21 and then kicked her out all over again.  She was homeless for awhile, barely got by bouncing from couch to couch, and she eventually became miserable enough to take therapy seriously.  It also taught her that living by mom and dad's rules wasn't so bad after all- all the entitlement is gone.

This is a process and it's a slow one; things don't change until she sees reason to change.  You can't force that on her now matter how hard you try...it's her decisions and her life.  The best you can do is create boundaries for your life; what you'll accept and what you'll push back on. 

Being home at midnight is a boundary.  Change the locks if you have to, and inform her that all doors are locked at 11:59.  If she breaks in, have her arrested.  These are painful lessons that none of us want, but you absolutely have to stop walking on eggshells and force her to make her own decisions towards your rules.  This is the path towards discovery and mending relationships (after breaking them down)...hopefully that helps!

[BPDstinks]

POOK75...I appreciate your advice!!! my BPD does not live with us, however, (when she spoke to me) I know she called the "shots"; (i admit....I am scared she will hurt herself, plain & simple) however, with the support of this amazing group...I am realizing i cannot STOP her (3 CCCs)

[Pook075]

POOK75...I appreciate your advice!!! my BPD does not live with us, however, (when she spoke to me) I know she called the "shots"; (i admit....I am scared she will hurt herself, plain & simple) however, with the support of this amazing group...I am realizing i cannot STOP her (3 CCCs)

Even in that situation- let's say she hurts herself.  That's terrible, but it would be her decision.  And if she did hurt herself, then the police and the hospital become involved, forcing her to get treatment at least short term.  That's not a bad outcome no matter how you look at it because she's responsible for her actions.

My kid was/is a cutter.  She's purposely overdosed on medicine.  She's purposely wrecked her cars.  She's contemplated jumping off a bridge.  All of that is terrifying, but it's ultimately up to her to realize that she needs help for the emotions that she can't deal with.  Each reckless attempt helped her realize that she had serious problems that had to be dealt with head-on.

So when parents do the opposite of what I said, they take endless abuse and immerse themselves in BPD instability, the kid is still miserable but the parents are too.  How is that helping anyone?  Now you have 3 or 4 people with mental health problems instead of just one.  And how do you help someone when you're not stable yourself from the endless blame, hurt, and abuse?  It just doesn't work and families self-destruct.

[CC43]

Unique,

I'm with Pook on this one.  If the car title is yours, and you paid for it, and you pay for insurance, you get to determine when and where the car is used, and where it is garaged at night.

I understand that seems "unfair" to a 22-year-old.  I might be more flexible about her being out when she pleases, but only if she works full-time and pays rent.  Then if she's out late, she deals with the consequences of being exhausted at work.  But if you want your car in the garage by midnight, then that's your right, and it seems reasonable to me, given the value of the car.  She can get a ride, take a bus or pay for an Uber if needed.  I know you would like it better if your daughter weren't out past midnight, but if she demonstrated she was on track to be completely independent, then that's her choice.  But it seems very unfair to me that she's 22 and feels she deserves to party if she's not supporting herself or even working full time.  Ultimately the same rules apply to all the working-age adults in the household (and outside of it):  everyone works full-time and contributes to the household in order to have freedoms.  If not, they can choose to live elsewhere.  And the same rules would apply anywhere else!

My parents used to tell me, if I wasn't home by eleven PM, then not to bother coming home again.  And they meant it.  I didn't dare test that boundary, even if there ware a blizzard or I had a flat tire.  Moreover, it was clear that their car was theirs, and I was just borrowing it.  They never bought me a car, either.  I never once thought that was unfair.  It was tough, but not unfair.

[uniqueson]

Pook, not at all unhappy to read your post. Sometimes I think I was just missing the validation to do the things that you and others discussed here…

Now I just have to have that discussion with my husband, who tends to cave as soon as she acts up—leaving me to be the bad guy—so that we present a unified front.  He let her take the car and go to her friend’s house (in the dodgy town) overnight and seemed to think it was okay because she told him about her plans…I am really sick of being the one who has to have a backbone. I reminded him that just because she announces her plans, doesn’t mean that we have to allow it.

She supposedly apologized to him earlier today, but my immediate thought was that she’s simply being manipulative.

[Ourworld]

Hi uniqueson,

I definitely agree with Pook,  you HAVE to put your foot down and use tough love.

I am now 65, the last time my undiagnosedUPD lived with me, she was 21. She left to finish college, got married in secret then blocked me after she graduated and she no longer needed my financial help at age 27.

I was fortunate that she is a high-functioning BPD who is now self-supporting. Her ‘marriage’ was with a guy who has severe mental illness from the military and they are now separated. She is 38 and living on her own, she blocked him and has not contact me, so I figure she’s making it.

The reason I tell you this is to encourage you to do what is right for your adult child, the way Pook has advised. It will be difficult, and I truly hope she doesn’t block  communication with you. But be prepared, it’s hurtful, but know that it is nothing you did, and due to her illness. She will eventually get better and may get in touch with you again.

But in the meantime, be in prayer asking God to take care of His child whom He gave you to raise and to give you peace.
I see it as a blessing in disguise. Because as sad as it can make me if I let it, I am thankful she’s not driving me crazy and hope that she is doing well.

Be strong and trust in God to help her make the right decisions and become self-sustaining however she goes about it.
I don’t know for sure, but you may want to consider giving her the car, making sure she is clear that it is not fully paid for yet, if you used financing.
To my daughter’s shock, I did purchase her a car at 16. It was a good thing and I feel it gave her a lot of encouragement to make it on her own. But I realize that your child’s illness and mentality may certainly not allow this.

Always remember that you did NOT cause this illness, so do not feel guilty about tough love that will help you both in the long run.

I truly wish you the best! OurWorld

[Pook075]

Pook, not at all unhappy to read your post. Sometimes I think I was just missing the validation to do the things that you and others discussed here…

Now I just have to have that discussion with my husband, who tends to cave as soon as she acts up—leaving me to be the bad guy—so that we present a unified front.  He let her take the car and go to her friend’s house (in the dodgy town) overnight and seemed to think it was okay because she told him about her plans…I am really sick of being the one who has to have a backbone. I reminded him that just because she announces her plans, doesn’t mean that we have to allow it.

She supposedly apologized to him earlier today, but my immediate thought was that she’s simply being manipulative.

In my situation, my BPD ex-wife ALWAYS gave in and punishments were forgotten.  That's okay though, my BPD daughter hated me for over a decade and blamed everything in her life on me.  But even then, I followed my moral compass that right was right, and wrong was wrong.  That's what the psychiatrists kept telling us to do...so I did it.

Maybe a year ago, my BPD kid had a complete breakdown and called me for help.  Looking back, she always called me for help when it really mattered, because even though she hated me, I was the one to get things done.  She apologized for everything in the past and asked to start over, acknowledging how bad of a kid she was and how she made my life absolute hell. 

I didn't ask for this and was shocked at her words, but I did forgive her and we built a new relationship...a real relationship.  She's not "cured" by any means and she certainly has bad days (or sometimes weeks), but the blame does not come my way at all anymore.  For the most part, she sees me as her rescuer and wants a healthy relationship.

So don't think too much about good parent/bad parent for now; long term it's more like the parent that can be manipulated and the parent who can't.  She will see that in time and will be thankful for teaching right from wrong.  It's a bumpy road to get there but that's okay, focus on your own needs and let her do whatever she wants if she decides to leave home.  The bad decisions (with real consequences) are ultimately what leads to good decisions over time.

[Ourworld]

At 3 years of age in 1962 I nearly died from kidney damage, and suffered the effects of this trauma from then until I was 24, I overcame it because of my parents. They divorced when I was 13, and my father moved to Scotland (for off-shore oil well business). My mother took care of me and showed me tough love, once I finished high school, my dad was my rock for financial reasons. He usually lectured me whenever I called, which actually helped me figure out things on my own later in life. Once I began a successful career at age 24, with my father’s (that is who I listened to) schooling advice, I was ok.

The reason I share this is that you can assure your husband that more than likely, even if she stops talking to you, your daughter will more than likely see him as her safety net and call him when she needs something. Also ask him to always be upfront with you.
At least there is some good therapy since people with BPD have a lot of trauma in their lives. So there is hope, my mother took care of me, but my dad is the one I contacted for money.

As fellow baby boomers, I have no doubt that you have also done your best for your daughter, which is why I encourage you not to take offense to her reactions as she works this out of her system.

I hope that helps some.

Take care! OurWorld