I need help

[Motherof3]

I have been  married for  40 years! Have been  with  my  husband  since I was 14, and am  now 59.
We have 3 beautiful  grown  children, living  far  away.
5 years ago  my husband  tried to  gas himself,  was diagnosed with  clinical depression.
I know  it's  more than  that. I have tried to be there  since  then, but  in his mind  it was because of  me that he tried  in the 1st  place.
I continue to  do and say the wrong  thing. I have  been trying to make it up to him, but  he cannot forgive  and forget, and ruminates every couple of weeks all of the things  I and our children and everyone else have done to him. He will not go talk to anyone. Says "is some stranger  going to tell me why my family  treats  me like this?"
2 weeks  ago  when I could not take any more of his yelling and belittling me, he took my keys and would not let me leave. I found a spare key and have not been home since.

I love this man, but don't want to live  like this anymore He is an attorney  and a smart  man. I put him through law school 30 years ago and did not  return to  college myself. I have always  worked, even while raising  our kids and do have a good job now.

I am relieved to find this site. Our  lives  are so intertwined, I hurt so bad.
All I have  ever wanted is to love  this man.
Thank you for being  here.

[takingandsending]

Hi Motherof3 and welcome to bpdfamily. 

You have been with your husband for twice as long as I was with my wife, so I can really understand that feeling of your lives being intertwined. It is hard loving someone who is suffering from a mental illness. Can you describe why you think your husband may have BPD/NPD? Certainly, pushing away people who are close, harsh criticism and abusive words and controlling behavior can be indicators. Was his behavior consistently leaning this way over the years, or had there been a shift in behavior in recent years?

Where are you living right now? Are you in a safe place to be? Have you had any contact in the last 2 weeks? I am guessing you have been in communication with your children, and I am hoping they are supportive of you. There is a lot of support and information on this site, and the members here can help with experience, counsel and encouragement. Let us know a little bit more how we can help. You may see stories here that parallel your own, and it helps to know you are definitely not alone.

It takes a lot of courage to decide to walk out of a situation that isn't healthy for us. I am proud of you for doing that. Please keep posting and asking questions. You are not alone.

[ForeverDad]

A few days ago another new member, Resiliant Runner, posted on this Family Law board and has gotten some responses. Hers is just a relatively short marriage but you may still glean additional suggestions and strategies there.  However, understand that if you post rarely you may not get much in the way of responses.  Sort of, if you don't ask & communicate much, you won't get much.

A few basic thoughts now.  Overall YOU are your best advocate.  Court and its associated professionals are not personally or emotionally involved, not as much as you.  Same goes for the lawyers, local police, etc.  You know your situation, your risks and your needs best.  On the other hand, you've been in defensive and appeaser mode for decades and so there are some aspects you may not have the most objective perspective or proactive stance and can benefit from outside help such as from your own counselor, nearby family and trusted friends, and solid peer support such as found here.

Do you have a counselor?  If it is not someone who really 'gets' your difficult situation then look around for another who can help you better.

Same goes for finding a problem solving, proactive attorney.  Get a few consultations.  See what strategies they recommend.  Likely they will know your husband or know of him.  Make sure they understand your consultations are totally confidential.  (And you don't have to submit to your spouse's interrogations either.  While spouses do share marital information under normal circumstances, when it comes to separation and divorce that principle is definitely suspended.  You don't want to give him ammunition to sabotage you.)

You do not have to go back, especially if you don't feel totally safe and comfortable.  Take your time to decide which course is best for you.  Frankly, though, if your marriage is that dysfunctional, controlled or even abusive, then our experience here has been that ending the relationship is the only realistic alternative where you don't lose control of yourself and your life.

It would have been better if you had planned a few things previously such as a Go-Bag will a few days of clothes, house keys, car keys, some cash, etc.  Can't change the past, so determine what your needs are now.  Are you blocked from credit or debit cards?  Do you still have access to joint accounts?  (As a married couple, you have rights to at least half the balances or to at least half the usual balances.  Depends on whether he's drained those options.)

What are your immediate needs?  Have you started consulting (confidentially) family law attorneys?  What are your children doing?  Any support form them?  Are they taking sides with you or with your spouse, or even wishing it just all went away?

[Motherof3]

Hello,
Thank you for your responses.
I can explain my situation a little bit better.
I guess my husband has always been sort of controlling, but things really fell apart about 20 yrs ago when we moved to a new town, he started a new job, we sold a cherished home where our 3 little ones had had a happy childhood, and his mother died.
He took care of everything as far as his mothers estate went, although he had 3 older brothers.
I didnt know about depression at that time, and didnt understand why he was accusing me of being unfaithful after 20 years. That was the 1st time he said he was going to kill himself.

Fast forward to raising 2 daughters and 1 son,,,helping them through school and him being a coach for several sports. They all moved away but in their own way are not now giving him enough attention.
My husband has quit or not been rehired in several local government counsel positions, because the people he worked with are politicians and not looking out for the people and are corrupt. He is correct most of the instances.
He became a public defender for juveniles and saw many injustices for these children, treated like criminals for minor incidents. The DA and probation dept seem only to want to lock the kids up instead of help them through.
My husband defended  a fellow wrongly searched and jailed by our local police. There was a video of what they did to this poor fellow. He filed a federal law suit, but the county settled for a fairly large sum of money, of which my husband gave all but $2,000 to his defendant.  This process took 2 years, and he was able to work on this because he is collecting a pension from his working in county government, and I am working full time... .

The place where I come in,,, I and our children have not honored him enough for his accomplishments, including this. It is all quite complicated, but the bottom line is that over the past 5 years, we and everyone else have not congratulated him enough. He emailed suggestions to our local county for wrongdoing he sees, or trys to offer solutions to problems (of which in our local paper they have adopted) but never receives any return emails of "thank you Mr Attorney for your suggestion, we will give it some thought". And so feels ignored... .
I always try to give words of encouragement and praise, but they are never enough.

At this point, we communicated about a week and a half after i left. Ihave been staying with friends or in motels, continuing to go to my full time job... .
He wants me to come home and "we'll share the house (we have lived here 17 yrs) says I can be there at night, he will camp out for now... .and he can be home during the day". I dont trust him to stay away at night, afraid he will return and start yelling at me for all of the accumlitation of things I havent done to congratulate him on his acomplishments. Me and everyone else.
The children know I am not home and are supporting of me. I have tried not to tell them much, do not want to worry or burden them. They know their father and have seen some of the rage, passive agressive, and totally unjustified anger he has.

This is a small town, and I am looking for a place to live. I did rent an apt for about 6 mos without his knowledge about a year ago... .so I had someplace to escape to in the middle of the night.  incase he started in on me about everything and how worthless he is... .I gave it up because things were getting better.

I never was one to keep a journal, and there have been so many instances,,, all of our neighbors know, have heard him yelling in the middle of the night that he should be dead because he is worthless... .One neighbor called the police a few months ago because he was yelling he was going to blow his head off. We have no guns in the house and he wasnt threatening me, but the neighbor didn't know.

He has begged me to come back on many occasions, and begged me not to leave him because he cannot survive without me... .Ihave always paid all of the bills, he doesnt know our finances and if Ihave ever tried to tell him, only gotten angry at me because we don't have enough money to buy the children expensive gifts.

This time when he took my keys and purse, he has not said he is sorry or that he will get help. I have asked him in the past to talk to someone, but know he feels it is not him, it is what everyone else does to him.
I know he is waiting for me to come home, Idont want to, Ihave had enough.
Iwill tell him we are separating and I hope I can find a place soon so that I can feel settled.
Wow, it is hard to explain a 20 years of a 40 year relationship. I would like to be with my husband, he is a good person, but Icannot take the accusations any longer, and feel like no matter what Ido it is not good enough.
Thank you for letting me get some of this out.

[ForeverDad]

May I be frank?  Here goes... .  No, he is not a good person.  Yes, blunt but overall it can't be far off.  Why?  If he were a good person you would not have had to escape from hit rant or rage, just the latest of many.  do you see the point?  The problem is that you just can't reconcile the good actions to justify allowing or accepting the bad actions.

Every family has disagreements, even arguments.  No one is perfect.  Even the Bible allows "Be angry" knowing outbursts will occur but there's more to it than just that snippet.  "Be wrathful (or angry) yet do not sin; do not let the sun set while you are still angry."  Ephesians 4:26.  The problems need to be resolved as soon as possible in a healthy way.  However, people with BPD (pwBPD) often rehash the same issues over and over again, ad nauseum, throwing them at us every time they're ranting and raging.  Once forgiven or addressed the issues ought to be left in the past.  But the repeated BLAMING and BLAME SHIFTING are hallmark patterns of BPD.

It is a mental illness that isn't generally enough to get one incarcerated or committed but it is devastating to close relationships.  The closer a person is in such relationships, the more evident the mental state and repercussions.

[takingandsending]

Hi Motherof3.

First, I want to acknowledge that is apparent you have thought this through for some time. This is not an isolated event, but a lifetime of events that has led you to this decision. I am glad that you had the foresight to rent an apartment at a time when his outbursts were frightening. You sound like someone who has a great capacity to stay level headed and think clearly.

But living with someone who has a mental illness and particularly, a personality disorder, takes your reserves away, so that even you may find it difficult to think clearly 100% of the time. When he took your purse and keys, that was domestic violence. It sounds like he has maybe committed this type of violence on you in the past. I don't doubt that he has done good things in his life and been on the right side of things. That doesn't make him a good person with his family or with you. And the way these illnesses usually work, he would likely not treat anyone particularly close to him very well, including his corrupt bosses or others that he interrelates closely with.

I think, after a very long time living under this cloud, it is okay to make a change to move out from that cloud. Your own health, your own well being - these matter, too. As you are clear that separation is needed, you will need to take steps to retrieve things from your home, to secure your own safety and independence. I would lean on your children, friends, church pastor or police to help you get what you need from the house after you have found a place to live. And contact an attorney who is experienced in high conflict cases involving a spouse with a personality disorder.

Hang in there. I believe you are doing to necessary things to maintain your own health and happiness. It's really hard, and I am sorry you are going through this. But, continuing to live with abusive behavior with no clear path to recovery is not supportable.

[livednlearned]

It has to be very scary for you when he says he wants to take his own life  not to mention his attempts to do so. It sounds like he is in terrible pain and has made it even harder for himself to get help. That can make loved ones feel so helpless.

Renting an apartment was good self-care on your part. It seemed to even have a positive effect on him because the relationship began to improve. Could be that interpersonal stress is what triggers him, and he forgets that when you two live apart.

I would like to be with my husband, he is a good person, but Icannot take the accusations any longer, and feel like no matter what Ido it is not good enough.

In my experience, it's more like what he does is never good enough, for him. You and family members and everyone else are just proxies for his own self-hate. He cannot self-validate. He can't figure out how to care about himself, and that makes it really hard to receive what others offer.

People with BPD need above average validation and the communication skills tend to be counter-intuitive. Validation means saying to someone who wants to kill himself, "You must be in such pain to feel that." This is a skill used to treat severely suicidal people.

At the same time, you deserve to be treated well. If he is raging at you and won't stop, or if he makes threats to harm himself, self-protection is in order. "I want to hear what you have to say and I care about you. I will not be talked to this way. I'm going to take a few hours to take care of myself and will check in by text message when we're both ready to try again."

One other thing -- this is the divorce board. You will hear from many who have decided to move on. You can check the Staying/Improving board if you want to work on relationship skills for people with BPD. And at the same time, start gathering information about divorce. Gathering information doesn't mean you have to do anything (tho I know in a small town it can be hard to gather info without everyone knowing... .). It just means you are practicing self care and understanding what options there are.

[ForeverDad]

Time and distance are two positive factors for reducing the conflict.  However that does not in itself mean your spouse is recovering.  BPD is a disorder most evident in close relationships.  Now you're not as close and so it may not appear as bad now.  But if you think it's fixed and get back together then there is high risk the problems will return and perhaps even become worse.  So don't fool yourself thinking if you get back on the roller coaster it will be fun again and not scary.  The 'fix' is effective therapy diligently applied in all your spouse's thinking, perceptions and behaviors for years.  Anything less and the moneys are flying again before long.

One criteria to figure out if there's hope to get back together is whether your spouse applies the therapy diligently over time.  If he refuses therapy or claims a couple sessions has fixed him, then beware.

[Motherof3]

I thank you all for your words. Everything each one of you say I know is true. I have been trying desparately for so long to "fix" everything. I have seen that the harder I try, the worse it seems to get. I have been away from my house going on 4 weeks now. The longest I have ever been gone. He is giving me space, not texting me hateful or loving things just nothing. I did go over and have lunch one day and see our garden, he just talked as if I would be coming home from work at 5pm... .I am thankful that I am not home,  in that environment, wondering and waiting for me to do or say the wrong thing, to have something come on the tv to trigger all of the past to come to the surface again.
Being away for this long, I am able to sleep not waking up in a panic, because it's 3am, just about the time he wakes and starts ranting about what an awful person he is. Nothing Ican say can help.
I read one of the articles here about the 10 myths of how you are feeling with a break up. I is certainly true that Ihave become one of the triggers to his pain... .
Being away this long has made me feel a bit normal, except for the greiving Ifeel for the loss of my friend. I have to keep reminding myself that my friend is not really there, keeps being replaced by a person who is very angry with the world and taking it all out on me.
I think Iam on the board for a break up, Iam not sure that is what Iwant, but I dont see him getting any help so there is not an alternative.
I am still looking for a more permanent place for me to live, I am lucky that Ihave caring friends and the means to find a place right. now.
I have been going over senarios in my mind of how Iam going to tell him I have found another place to stay, that Iwant to separate for now. I am fearful of his reaction, and don't want to say it is over, Iwould rather it not be, but that may be where we are headed. At least if I say I want to separate for now, maybe he will see that Iam going, and will realize that he needs to seek help.
I am feeling better and stronger reading all of your supportative comments, making me realize what already know to be true.
Thank you all.

[livednlearned]

I have been going over senarios in my mind of how Iam going to tell him I have found another place to stay, that Iwant to separate for now. I am fearful of his reaction, and don't want to say it is over, Iwould rather it not be, but that may be where we are headed.

Do you want to try phrasing things here and we can provide feedback to help you clarify your thoughts?

With him being BPD, it will be easier to digest if it's framed as you taking care of yourself, with some kind of clear idea about how you will stay in his life, to offset his abandonment fears.

For example, if you tell him, "I will be taking some time to focus on myself so I can learn to communicate with you better, and to do that I will be living on my own for _______ months. I will reach out next Monday to say hi, and we can go for a walk or have coffee together."

Or something like that.

The key is to tell him assertively what you are doing, and reassure him that you are not going far.

Prepare for him to test your boundaries to see if you are serious. He may threaten suicide, in which case have a plan as to how you will respond. There are some really good resources in both Valerie Porr's book (Overcoming BPD, I believe is the title) and Loving Someone with BPD by Shari Manning. One of them (can't remember which) has a good section dedicated to how to speak to someone who threatens suicide, using SET (support, empathy, truth) statements. The truth statement is typically along the lines of, I will call 911 to make sure you are safe. It's essential that you follow through, though. Making idle comments about what you will do when things get that serious can create much worse problems as he tries to seek out whether you are serious.

At least if I say I want to separate for now, maybe he will see that Iam going, and will realize that he needs to seek help.

It's hard to know how he will react. Most likely he will test your boundaries in some way, to see if he can get you to stay using strategies that aren't as healthy as you might like.

For a lot of us, learning to be assertive while reassuring our loved ones is a balancing act that is hard to master.

It is possible, however.  

[Motherof3]

Thank you  livednlearned.I think that  is  a positive  and loving way to tell him. I appreciate  the suggestions. 
I am still  greiving  and at the end of my work day  want to go to my home where  we have  lived  for 17 yes. I have to keep reminding  myself  of the reality  of  his anger and  rage and know remember  that  even if it is  not  there  right  away,  it will most likely be  there at 3 in the morning, and then I would  be  stuck

I am thankful  that  I  finally  feel that I cannot  do this any more. As much as I  love my husband, I keep reminding  myself of his pain that I  cannot  take away, no matter  how much I love  and give.

I think since all he rages about  is about  how others  treat him, I  think telling  him I am tak8ng care of myself he might understand,  at least a little. At least it will be about me for once instead of  about  him. Everything is  about him.

[ForeverDad]

Suicide threats are hard to handle, we certainly don't want that to happen.  But the professionals advocate reporting suicide attempts or 'threats'.  We are not expected to know whether a suicide threat is real or not, whether it is a plea for help or a control attempt.  For example, even a physician is not supposed to have his or her family for patients, the family relationship carries emotional concerns.

So if your spouse chooses to make suicide comments, no one will have basis to criticize you should you call emergency services.  Yes, he may get angry at you that you didn't keep it private - frankly so much of the poor BPD behaviors are dumped in private because then they feel there can be no consequences - but his life and health is more important.

If you take that path to report, understand that the typical BPD response is to Deny ever making that claim or comment.  Denial is huge, so is Blaming and Blame Shifting.  So if you report it make sure you have copies of his emails, texts or calls which confirm what you reported.  Otherwise it will be he-said versus she-said and they will accept his predictable Denials.

Some here have chosen to do that, aware they needed to have proof of the suicidal comments, and reported that a few calls to the emergency responders taught the person to stop using that tactic.  However, if the person was not really suicidal, it didn't necessarily fix the dysfunctional relationship.

It would be great if the relationship could be fixed but odds are poor since 20 years didn't succeed.  So don't kick yourself if the marriage can't be salvaged.

For example, if you tell him, "I will be taking some time to focus on myself so I can learn to communicate with you better, and to do that I will be living on my own for _______ months. I will reach out next Monday to say hi, and we can go for a walk or have coffee together."

LnL's suggestion to not bluntly make the separation about him is smart.  If he's not listening to reason and reality, or to you, then that won't work.  As you will have noticed with LnL's example, you also not make yourself the guilty party.  Don't say you're the one to blame, legally that could come back to haunt you in a divorce.  A good way to calm is to refocus attention, divert trigger words about you or him.  I recall when my then-stbEx went to the sheriff's office and demanded the deputy issue an Amber Alert on me, he didn't tell her she was wrong.  Rather, the log recorded that he told her "the circumstances didn't meet the criteria for Amber Alert".  See?  He took focus of me and her, he defused things as much as he could by citing emotionally neutral rules and policies.

[Motherof3]

Hi all. I have now been  out of my house since July 24th. That was the night my husband took my car keys and purse and would not let me leave the house while he was raging. I have been staying with friends and trying to find a small place to rent. After being gone for about a week and a half with no communication, he wrote me a note and put in my car while I was at work that the solution was for me to stay at our house at night and he would camp out, and the be at the house during the day while I was at work. This was not a solution for me, I would be afraid he would come home in the night. I have gone home for lunch a couple of times, it was nice to be in my house of 17 years, I miss my house. Then he invited me to have dinner on Sunday. It was strange being a guest in my own home. But we did have a quiet time, only small talk. no talk of our grown children D31, D28, and S26, all living  their own lives in other states. No talk of the pain and anger. We sat and just held each other for a while and then Iwanted to leave... .very difficult to leave your own home... .(although I had no desire to stay, could only think of the many nights being awaken by his yelling in agony of what a terrible person he is and that he should be in prison because he is a bad person).
I left and then received an angry hurt txt, how could Ileave when he just wanted to hold me in peace... .the next morning at 5am the txt's started about how he made a nice dinner and nice time for us to be together, and I couldn't stay and be there for a little while... .the txt's escalated back to what an awful person he is and that he feels guilty even existing. It reminded me again why I am not there.
Later that day we talked again, he apologize for getting so upset (again).
I am taking care of the bills like Ialways have... .he is collecting some pension and I work full time. We live in a small town and Ido have a lot of friends who are trying to help me find an an
expensive rental so for the time being we can continue to pay our mortgage and other bills. I dont feel the pain so strongly now and have to keep reminding myself of the rages at me and the yelling and breaking of things and the holes in the walls. I am afraid I will want to go back home, but do still know in my heart Ido not want life as it was a lot of the time. This time he has not said he is sorry or said he will get help. Ido not ask him to get help, I already knew before reading about it here, going to get help only because I wanted him to would do no good. He still feels that is rage and anger are caused by what everyone else has done to him, not  anything to do with him. He thinks people do things like what he calls are ignoring him because he is is bad... .
The  only thing he said about his actions was "I know how wrong it is to take everything out on you".

I do hope  that I can find a place soon, so that Ican get settled a bit... .I will tell him as LnL suggested I need to take care of myself and the way to do that is for us to be apart for a while. We seem to like each other better (or he seems to like me better) when we are apart.
I am sorry for rambling, just wanted to stay in the conversation. and tell you all how much Iappreciate your input. I  feel not so alone. the people I know who know a small amount of the conflict my life has been these past five years, they do not understand.
I am stronger from not being in that house... .
Thank you all.

[livednlearned]

It is understandable that, after all this time, you need a safe place for you, to shore up strength. It takes strength to do that! And it takes a lot of strength to not be emotionally injured by someone suffering from BPD. Taking care of yourself is essential 

With my BPD loved one, I find that too much time together invariably leads to emotional arousal, which leads to the kind of "I am bad" thinking you describe. Short, frequent interactions or visits work best for us (she is my partner's D20, so a little different because it is not a romantic relationship). Maybe it will be the same for you and your H.

When he apologizes, what do you say?