DancingMachine,



We all have parents with BPD or NPD and our stories vary, as does contact. I'm glad that you reached out to our community. It sounds like you've done well, despite, on a journey to take back your power.

What do you struggle with regarding taking back your sense of self?

Yes... that's why he said it I imagine. He had a big story about her being someone who was so fragile that she couldn't be in a relationship with anyone, that she was a complicated woman with all these mental health issues, and he just wanted to love her back to health... agreed to caring for her, not really knowing what that would involve. He didn't let onto the fact that he might have added to any of her stress, he just said that she was someone who had a very thin skin and couldn't handle life. At times he even said she was a narcissist.

But I weirdly got inside info from some of her friends that she went to a really dark place when she was with him, but she's doing great now she's not... that he was like a child and didn't contribute to anything, and they even said he turned into 'a monster' right after they married... she had a full breakdown at the end and then she left him.

I guess I believed his story because I wanted to... but it's clear she and I had a similar experience, except I didn't marry him or have a child with him. And it's also become clear to me that he's since labelled me in the same way as her - because of the reaction of anxiety and upset I had to the insane push/pull at the very end.

Sorry Tina - hijacked this thread... I'll have to post about some of this stuff separately...

Oh good, thank you Seeking. Jus like his ex-wife did, exactly. So you both were being denied the normal support/love/respect that you would get in a healthy relationship. Now, I'm still trying to think about why he told you that. There is a reason he did, I'm not sure exactly what it is. I'm sure it has something to do with trying to portray her as damaged or 'needy'.

This was 100% the experience with my xBPD. On the rare occasions over the years when I managed to "fix" something, another problem just popped up to replace it within a few months. Eventually I realized she was just an emotional black hole with chaos at the centre and gave up trying to help her and began to work on myself again. It was setting those boundaries for myself that eventually led to our divorce.


It's natural for people to want to get back to the happy, earlier state of their relationship, but I think that's ultimately the wrong way of looking at it. I like Esther Perel's re-evaluation of relationships after affairs -- the relationship you had with the other person is over because of the affair. Do you want to build a new type of relationship with this person? I think it's a good question to ask of pretty much any significant relationship problem -- replace "affair" with "BPD" and ask yourself the same question.

Expect that when you address one issue, another will pop up elsewhere.  It's like that clown and his long balloon, while forming it into a poodle, he will squeeze one section and the air pops up somewhere else.

If she is not addressing her issues with the therapists as you progressively set your newfound boundaries, she will not improve overall.

Boundaries article in Tools & Skills Workshops board.
Setting Boundaries and Setting Limits

Whether she will abide by reasonable boundaries can indicate whether there might be hope for the relationship.  Sure, she will "fall off the wagon" sometimes, relapses happen, but does she get right back on the program?

Hi Jaded - you didn't make me feel bad at all - I totally see where you're coming from and agree with you. It sounds like your ex needed you to be there to meet all of her needs but yours were very much a burden to her. It just reminded me that I'd said that phrase too... and I said it because I was aware that there was a big mismatch in our relationship in terms of me being there to meet his needs, but him not having the capacity or skills to meet mine and I wanted to level the playing field a bit so we didn't fall into co-dependency and cause me to burn out and resent him, just as his ex-wife did. I think he loved me and wanted to meet my needs, I do... but he literally didn't know how to do that without feeling overwhelmed or engulfed. Again, i just always think through the lens now of my ex unconsciously seeing me as a parent figure - that was my function to him, to be strong and steady and present to meet his needs and be the calm in his storm. The moment I wasn't any of those things for even a day, he would become extremely anxious and create a fight... which over time was really damaging to me to have someone causing extra chaos on my lowest, most stressful days... I didn't need him to come and save the day for me, I just wanted him to be around as normal and not cause extra chaos.

Hi Tina - I feel the same way as you about mental health. I have hope for us all as well. I really do and I feel strongly about it and believe there's always space for compassion. But yes, totally agree with you, I don't think that we can truly understand the true limitations of someone with BPD until we're in it. And how those limitations might make you feel, and ultimately in turn limit you from showing up in a way that he needs as well?

I hear what you're saying about being glad you were there for him - I guess that's the selfless part of love, where you're truly just giving it without anything expected in return. But from what you were saying, being there for him was hurting you... which of course it would. So I'd say in response to your question about contacting him - are you ready for the fact that if you open the door to checking on him, you might be hurting your own heart in the process? And also potentially confusing the boundary you've tried to set with him in terms of not being the one to be there for him?

I don't get this stuff right at all, and it's so much easier to look from the outside at someone else's situation, but I hope that what you choose to do protects and takes care of your own heart first and foremost... whilst still leaving that beautiful care and compassion for others in there too, which I have no doubt you'll always do anyway.

I did this with a therapist's help. I think there's a method called confrontational writing that can be therapeutic. Pretty sure I wrote over two dozen drafts and each one helped me get closer to putting down on paper what happened in the marriage to lead to this point. It clocked in at 10 pages.

I remember writing it and the catharsis of sending it. Can't remember the response other than it was classic.

Someone once wrote it takes one month for each year of marriage to heal. That's for a "normal" relationship. For a high-conflict marriage it's more like 2 months for each year.

Obviously that's a rough estimate and everyone is different but the month I felt great for the first time in forever was exactly 2 months for each year of marriage. So 11 years of marriage = 22 months before I felt great about where I was at.

You're in the roughest patch now and things like sending the letter are important because it's for you.

Also, this is probably a bit too candid but you're in no shape to help her given what's happened.

For many people with codependent traits there's this almost grandiose and even delusional belief in our abilities to rescue others. I look back at my codependent delusions and it is almost comical how deluded I was.

I'm reluctant to compare people to dogs, although I love dogs so hopefully this isn't offensive. Codependence is almost like trying to retrain a dangerous dog by letting them bite you more. What is often more effective is to have a skilled trainer with good boundaries and a deep understanding of what a reactive dog needs and why, then working almost dispassionately and patiently to achieve progress. Even when a dog is rehabilitated, you have to keep those boundaries in mind at all times so a bad event doesn't happen.

You can't be rescuing others when you're still trying to figure out your own wounds much less how to care for them so you can heal. Maybe for some people the stars align and they can do that but most of us have category 5 damage and the rebuilding requires total focus on our needs.

In a BPD relationship you kind of have to take your ideas about marriage down to the studs and reframe what the relationship is and how you'll exist in it.

Sometimes you will be in partner mode. Sometimes you will be in parent mode.

You have to have an internal boundary that you can control to put a stop to the verbal abuse. There's no point in discussing it.

30 minutes of ranting is not acceptable.

It sounds like she has moments where she is regulated and can be reasonable. What if you were to discuss with her your boundary? I will give myself a time out when I feel myself getting flooded. Tell her what you will do, how long you will be gone, whether you'll text her or not, or whatever type of reassurance she might need.

If she can hear you on that and start to learn your boundary, one that you have reason to have and some control over, you are in a hopeful percentage.

Start with one thing that matters to you. Frame it about how you feel and what you are going to do. She will try to shift the conversation to how she feels, what she needs, how you did this to her 4 years every Tuesday for 16 weeks plus 10 unicorns and 29 purple elephants. Go back to the one thing: I will do x so that I can y.

Thoughts?

So sorry - that really sucks. 

Similar boat here. But I've been married for 25 years to my uBPDw. It wasn't always like this, but I assuming like a lot of marriages over the years our sex frequency went down year after year. The past 6 years have been the worst. She started hormone therapy and after that her sex drive was/is actually higher then it was ever before in our marriage but it became very one sided like yours. I would bring up the lack of intimacy once in a while but it never helped and she would get into a rage worse and worse. She would masturbate several times a week or have me help her out but wouldn't touch me but once a month or less (now the avg is far less then that). The last time I brought it up, 4 years ago she told me she would divorce me if I ever talked about sex again (wanting more of it) because it made her feel 'not good enough'. She has a pelvic floor condition which can make sex painful. Still can do it sometimes but it is a big area where she has shame, poor sense of self and seems to be a huge BPD trigger. But her mouth and hand don't cause any issues, it's about her not wanting to.

Eventually I realized that was part of her BPD which I had no idea she had those years ago. Being 'not good enough' is a phrase she uses across different areas when someone 'makes' her feel bad about something (like a husband wanting more sexual intimacy or giving ANY sort of feedback).

So now our sex life is basically I'm at her beck and call and I don't ask. Some weeks it could be daily - usually it's late at night or the middle of the night and she'll wake me up to assist her. She'll use a toy and I'll help her get her O. Then she rolls over and goes back to sleep and I know better then to ask for anything. Once in a while she'll do something for me as well but at this point we've gone months without any reciprocation.

But I would also add that our sex life is just one area where there is little to no reciprocity. It's taken me a long time to step back, really evaluate and see how so much in our relationship is one-sided. Other one sided areas but definitely not exclusive:

• Financially - She's more educated then me but has refused to work more then 10-20 hours a week for years and keeps most of her money, covering her expenses (hair, personal travel, eating out shopping, etc). 100% of my income goes into the finances, I can't cover all our expenses and not only does she not help, she's told me on many occasions that I need to do more to bring in more money (I already work f/t)
  
• Housework - not completely one sided but I do more then 75% of the regular household responsibilities and I work F/T. i.e. 100% of the meal planning, grocery shopping, 100% of the cooking, even preparing her lunches for the week. 100% of the yard work. She will chip in from time to time and a few things are 50/50 but mostly I'm going 80-100% of most things
  
• Any sort of paperwork - passports, taxes, anything involving computers, iphones, math, vehicle renewals, our joint LLC for her side business. All me.
  
• Parent chores - I will give credit that when the kids were young she was super involved in the PTA, she didn't work at the time. Once the kids got to middle school her participation declined. She rarely would drive the kids anywhere. She started hating driving. I was uber dad 99% of the time - school, after school activities drop off and pickup. I counted it and for a time I was spending 8-10 hours in the car a week driving kids around. I was up every day at 6am with the kids making lunches and getting them on the bus (until they were older).
  
• Personal / social time. For most of our marriage she's 100% always done whatever she wanted whether it was meeting friends out a few times a week, taking 1-2 girl trips a year. It's never bothered me at all. I encourage it even. But even trying to block off time to spend with my kids has had bad backlash/jealousy - i.e. she got enraged for a period when the kids and I would watch action movies she didn't like, we eventually stopped watching those if mom was home. When I traveled for work for a while there would be intense anger if I did anything 'fun' during my off time. To the point where I had to stop telling her I was going out for dinner with work colleagues and eventually just hide my activities. Nothing sinister, literally going to disney when I was working/traveling in the area was banned for me to do because she was at home with the kids and it wasn't fair to her. I was expected to pretty much stay in hotel after work. Years ago I used to golf pretty regularly but time and time again I would come home to again an angry wife who even would be encouraging me to go out before I left. I stopped golfing more more then once or twice a year. Sometimes going more then a year.
  
• Accountability. Since most everything is on my shoulders when something slips through the cracks or isn't done correctly it's my fault. I feel like I'm constantly spinning plates. She doesn't have any real responsibility in the house, with money, so when something doesn't go right who is to blame? (hint: me)
  

I love my wife otherwise it would be easier for me to cut the cord. I don't want to see us split up so I'm still working on me. But... I've realized that if she left the house and was gone I wouldn't notice much of a difference in terms of having to take care of a bunch of stuff she did. There would be less for me to do, it would in fact be easier on me, the day to day would be so much easier. From her side though, if I left she would be a bit of a mess because she's been unwilling/incapable of taking care of so much. Her day to day would change enormously.

With all that said I don't think you can really change him or make him see your needs are = to his own. In my situation things have gotten worse over the years, not better. I'm just starting to work on some boundaries but right now I'm just trying to establish not putting up with the rages as much. My hope is pretty low that she'll change. I think if you're starting out you need to setup those expectations early on. If you want/need something in your relationship with him you let him know things need to be more even. The longer you let things go, the further the slide will be and then you'll be in my shoes! .

It's exhausting, it's not fair and I really don't know if I would have started or stayed in this relationship if I knew then what I know now. It sucks, the lack of sex really sucks (or I wish it did). Sometimes I feel like instead of a marriage I have a roommate. And a crappy one that doesn't help out much or pay any bills. 

Suggested reading: Stop Caretaking the borderline or Narcissist, Stop Walking on Eggshells, & The Essential Family Guide to Borderline Personality Disorder. 

They are 12 step groups based on the original AA groups but not only for alcohol. I was surprised when a counselor recommended them as I thought it was mostly for alcohol issues, but the relationship dynamics with a family member with BPD are similar and I needed to work on co-dependency.

Google 12 step recovery groups in your area and hopefully there will be some. They tend to meet in public meeting places like churches but aren't necessarily a part of the church. Some churches do sponsor their own groups but many are not connected and just are allowed to use a classroom in one.