A couple of questions from someone new to this.

[trevjim]

Hi Ive not long realised my ex most probably had BPD, and i have a few questions.

1) Do pwBPD miss their ex's?

2) Do PwBPD find people attractive? or maybe the question should be do pwBPD often go for people that are not very good looking?

The reason i ask is my exBPD was simply stunning, a straight up 10. She would get hit on by anyone anywhere, male or female, if she wanted someone she only needed to click her fingers, However if i look back at her ex's and sexual partners, none of them are very good looking, all around the 5-7 mark i would say. She was way out of my league in terms of looks and even more so with her current boyfriend.

3)how do Male BPD attract?

It seems the female BPd attracts males playing the vulranble damsel in distress? yet being 'needy and hurt' as a male is apprently a turn of to women, as women like confidant men? (I could be being incredibly ignorant right now and i apologise if i am, its just what im led to believe)

[Changed4safety]

I can only relate my experience.

My exBPDbf says he misses me terribly.  He is, however, unable to be alone, and told me after a month apart that he missed me so much and so intensely he had to do something to distract himself.  Actually, knowing what I know, I believe that. 

Mine also, other than one stunning-looking woman and, being immodest, myself, went for... .  well, really homely women.  Everything from being obese to having terrible teeth and skin to greasy hair--I mean these women radiated "I HAVE NO SELF ESTEEM SOMEONE PLEASE CARE ABOUT ME."  He was charming and attractive in a slender, elf-like way (exactly my type).  The girl he is with now is no exception to this.  I believe he selected these women because they were easy marks, desperate for attention, and were ready to idolize him for breadcrumbs.  I certainly had that problem of low self-esteem myself, hammered home by an alcoholic mother.  He also needs to be the center of attention, so when he was out with them he was the "pretty" one of the pair.  I am fairly attractive, and accomplished in my career, and I think that always bothered him.  The girl he dated before our last recycle was not obese, but very plain... .  but he told me she hadn't had a date in ten years, and later I found out that two years ago she had gastrointestinal bypass surgery and lost over 100 lbs. 

With me, he was looking for a "mom" (there was a significant age difference), someone to caretake for him.  He was a male waif.  Many women like to be nurturing, especially us codependent types, so we could be the "one" to show him true love and we wouldn't break his heart etc. etc.  He was also a type I diabetic with neuropathy, bipolar and PTSD.  He made no effort to get a job while he lived with me, but raged when I didn't buy him anything he wanted.   Ugh... .   

[almost789]

One theory could be if theyre going for less attractive partners is that they pick them because they know they have less options, thus less likely to leave. Another ive heard is it could be less to lose. Easy to discard. I know that when they are with people who are attractive looking, more self esteem, successful, this does trigger some abandonment fears.

Mine was a quite BPD. He was not clingy, weak, needy or femine in anyway. He was confident and a bit cocky, assertive. Now when i got to know him a bit better the fearfulness of abandonment, the insecurity, the low self esteem seept through his personality at times. But he worked hard to keep that hidden. He works , and is succsessful and high functioning.

[trevjim]

surely then, the fact they choose the partners because they have no self esteem and less likely to abandon them... .  The relationship is doomed to fail from the start?

[GreenMango]

Trevjim each person with BPD is different.  The disorder has marked characteristics that are similar, emotional lability, rejection fears, variable hostility, impulsivity, deficits in empathy, intimacy, identity or self-direction.  But how a person with BPD picks a partner is only one half of the story.

The other half is us.  The general consensus is at the time we engage with a person with less than healthy functioning or emotional stability we also have a complementary set of issues that affect our functioning.  The same maturity level.  It's like a key in a lock.

This key can keep unlocking and locking that door for as long as it fits.  If neither party matures, learns new skills, or changes then it works, until it doesn't anymore and someone changes the lock or the key.

[almost789]

Yes, Id venture to say almost all BPD relationships are doomed from the start. Unstable relationships is integral to the disorder.

[GustheDog]

Trevjim each person with BPD is different.  The disorder has marked characteristics that are similar, emotional lability, rejection fears, variable hostility, impulsivity, deficits in empathy, intimacy, identity or self-direction.  But how a person with BPD picks a partner is only one half of the story.

The other half is us.  The general consensus is at the time we engage with a person with less than healthy functioning or emotional stability we also have a complementary set of issues that affect our functioning.  The same maturity level.  It's like a key in a lock.

This key can keep unlocking and locking that door for as long as it fits.  If neither party matures, learns new skills, or changes then it works, until it doesn't anymore and someone changes the lock or the key.

What GreenMango says here is true (that this represents the general consensus).  GM, I suspect, is nudging you in the direction of focusing on yourself and your own issues in an effort to heal and grow personally, as this is considered the underlying purpose of this board.  All good advice.

However, I will tell you that, from my understanding of this disorder, yes, all BPD relationships are slated to fail, but not because they may select less attractive partners (I wouldn't lump myself into this group, but I do have self-esteem issues, which could be correlated with attractiveness generally).  

I would guess that the healthier the partner of the pwBPD is, the shorter the relationship will be (as a result of the healthy partner yielding to the red flags and getting out).  If the partner is very unhealthy as well - as I was/somewhat still am - the more likely that partner is to stay and become drawn into the dysfunction until he or she is ultimately devalued and discarded by the pwBPD.

Idealization and devaluation should be included in GM's list of BPD characteristics, and this, in my opinion, is the crux of why BPD relationships will always fail - or at the very least be riddled with make-up/break-up cycles, or love-hate/push-pull dynamics.  To preempt challenges that "failure" is not inevitable, I will simply say that an "unhealthy" dynamic almost certainly is.  A person suffering from BPD utilizes a variety of primitive and maladaptive coping strategies in interpersonal relationships, one of which is "splitting," which causes the pwBPD to view others as either all good (idealization) or all bad (devaluation).

The idealized partner will invariably be devalued/split-bad at some point.  On top of the other symptoms associated with the disorder, I cannot see how any relationship could thrive under these circumstances.

Whether a relationship is a "success" or a "failure" is also a fairly subjective inquiry.  But there are posts and articles here describing the characteristics of healthy relationships, so at least that can be discussed in relatively objective terms.  And pwBPD are incapable of sustaining such healthy characteristics in their relationships for significant periods of time.

These remarks pertain only to relationships where the pwBPD is either unaware of their condition or unwilling to improve themselves.  

[trevjim]

Someone once wrote 'a pwBPD is constantly in a rebound relationship ' and I must say the relationships do seem to echo a rebound just with differant outcomes.

A stereotypical non BPD rebound... .  person has a hard break up, so gets with the first person who comes along, its all great during the honeymoon period but once that is over, it dawns on them that they don't love the person and have made a mistake and the relationship ends.


A steriotypical BPD relationship, gets with someone because they feel lonely and abandoned, at first they idolize the partner (honeymoon) and then when the cracks start to show, they devalue them, but because of the feat of abandonment and being alone, they stay with the person even if the relationship is bad, or they line up their next 'rebound'

its almost as if its not you they want, its the boyfriend/girlfriend in you.

[almost789]

Well considering that they move trough and on to new relationships so fast. Yes you could probably assume alot of them are simply a matter of any replacement will do.

[trevjim]

Well considering that they move trough and on to new relationships so fast. Yes you could probably assume alot of them are simply a matter of any replacement will do.

surely they must have some need for attraction and to fulfill their sexual needs? is this maybe why cheating is high in BPD relationships?

[seeking balance]

Well considering that they move trough and on to new relationships so fast. Yes you could probably assume alot of them are simply a matter of any replacement will do.

surely they must have some need for attraction and to fulfill their sexual needs? is this maybe why cheating is high in BPD relationships?

pwBPD have an unstable sense of self - it is part of the criteria for the disorder. 

Cheating has little to do with sex, it has to do with finding someone to mirror that shows them the "positive" self.

Attraction is not an issue necessarily - it is about the image being mirrored back.

Have you had a chance to read the articles - specifically how a BPD relationship evolves?  How did your own relationship compare to this article?

[trevjim]

Well considering that they move trough and on to new relationships so fast. Yes you could probably assume alot of them are simply a matter of any replacement will do.

surely they must have some need for attraction and to fulfill their sexual needs? is this maybe why cheating is high in BPD relationships?

pwBPD have an unstable sense of self - it is part of the criteria for the disorder. 

Cheating has little to do with sex, it has to do with finding someone to mirror that shows them the "positive" self.

Attraction is not an issue necessarily - it is about the image being mirrored back.

Have you had a chance to read the articles - specifically how a BPD relationship evolves?  How did your own relationship compare to this article?

Yeh i have, Mine went from me being the greatest man ever (Idolizing), we got engaged, to then her being really nasty and snipy to me (devaluing) and the more our relationship went on, the worse i was in her eyes, and the devaluing got more intense and frequent and every time we had a bust up she would sleep with someone else. In the end it got too much for me and i moved out, a day later she is with someone else and its like i no longer exist.

I get its more about their need for their 'positive self' but my point is, do they not feel lust in the same way a nonBPD does?

[almost789]

Sure, i think they feel lust but as fast as they have to replace couldnt you imagine that at times they might just settle for whatever they can get?

[Changed4safety]

In the same way?  I bet "no."  Mine was eyeball-deep in fantasy sexually.  The online cybersex in which he indulged so often at 3:00 in the morning was all about role-playing.  I mean that quite literally--he and these woman would play out their gaming characters having graphic sex.  In bed, he would want to do similar things.  I'm all for the imagination, but he actually preferred being alone at a computer with cybersex with women who were not at all attractive than being in bed with a pretty hot live woman.  It got to the point where I just yearned to, you know--be sexually intimate with my live in supposed life partner as me and as himself.  Imagine that!  

Edit:  He also does costuming for science fiction conventions.  It's all about NOT being himself.  He's even said as much.  It's... .  sad. 

[seeking balance]

I get its more about their need for their 'positive self' but my point is, do they not feel lust in the same way a nonBPD does?

Do any 2 people feel lust the same way?  no

I guess, I don't quite understand what this line of questions has to do with detaching or understanding BPD - can you help me with that?

[trevjim]

In the same way?  I bet "no."  Mine was eyeball-deep in fantasy sexually.  The online cybersex in which he indulged so often at 3:00 in the morning was all about role-playing.  I mean that quite literally--he and these woman would play out their gaming characters having graphic sex.  In bed, he would want to do similar things.  I'm all for the imagination, but he actually preferred being alone at a computer with cybersex with women who were not at all attractive than being in bed with a pretty hot live woman.  It got to the point where I just yearned to, you know--be sexually intimate with my live in supposed life partner as me and as himself.  Imagine that!  

Mine was very intimate and she had a really high sex drive, maybe that was just her and in your case him, as opposed to the BPD.

I just think that for arguments sake, if I was a 10, and ok i may not realise it, but i get hit on day in day out, and my partner was the first first that came along to stop me being alone, and i was past the idolizing phase, i would surely get tempted sexualy by these people hitting on me?

She didnt even seem attracted to the 'hot celebs' brad pitt, ryan gosling etc, she said none of them are hot.

Do any 2 people feel lust the same way?  no

I guess, I don't quite understand what this line of questions has to do with detaching or understanding BPD - can you help me with that?

Because I dont understand how they can seem so happy with someone they 'shouldnt' be attracted to, I know they have needs that the person fills, but does that irradicate the need for physical attraction with pwBPD?

[seeking balance]

Because I dont understand how they can seem so happy with someone they 'shouldnt' be attracted to, I know they have needs that the person fills, but does that irradicate the need for physical attraction with pwBPD?

people are attracted to people for many different reasons - at the end of the day, nobody can predict another person's motivations.  Focusing on her and why or what she is doing may feel better right now than focusing on you.

[Changed4safety]

I actually had a higher sex drive than he did, at least for actual real physical intimacy as opposed to cybersex where he pretended to be something and someone he wasn't.  He could enjoy himself with no responsibilities to the other woman other than typing, and then shut off the computer and her, whereas with me, I'd still be right there afterwards, 

[daintrovert13]

Well considering that they move trough and on to new relationships so fast. Yes you could probably assume alot of them are simply a matter of any replacement will do.

Mine is now engaged to someone from AU. She proposed with in 3 days of them chatting.

She displays almost every detail of her "going ons" online.