WHY does she do what she does?

[How to communicate after a contentious divorce...]

I spent endless energy during and after the relationship demolition trying to understand  - to get the answer to "why?".  I just have to know.  Ultimately, I have needed some unmoving rock of understanding in order to understand my role and heal myself.  I spent my time in the r/s on a foundation of sand with frequently recurring earthquakes and aftershocks.

Perhaps like many of you, I had glimpses of understanding throughout - sometimes I believed "This is it!  Finally!  Now I can be who she needs me to be and help her to be who she 'was' and we will get healthy together and be happy!"  then... .  *EARTHQUAKE* and the structure of the r/s and my own stability collapsed, yet again.  Pervasive confusion and despair within me ensued... .    I could too frequently not even control or change myself

Here is my summary - perhaps just restating the info here, and only a summary therefore incomplete, but I hope this helps.  I think it helps me to understand what happened and why and some of what compelled me to trash my own values, and to be able to move forward again in my own healing:

WHY - or what is underlying - what is it that compels her?

Lack of Object consistency: not feeling the same about someone or from someone, particularly love, when (especially s/o) is not present

   Compels fear of abandonment – emotional reality includes frequent feelings OF abandonment – out of sight, out of mind or abandoned

        Compels need for immediate gratification, and conversely the rejection of and giving up on working towards delayed gratification

Black and white thinking: Lack of ability to consistently hold onto opposing feelings and thoughts simultaneously

Lack of emotional skin – some minor perceived slight can be like touching someone with 3rd degree burns

Emotional dysregulation:  thoughts, feelings and behaviors become inordinately controlled by emotions.  Subjective reality can conflict with subjective reality one day or one hour ago  “Because that’s the way I feel!”


Leads to:

Acute Fear of abandonment

Paranoia

Mirroring

Avoidance of emotional pain, especially guilt

Drama triangles – victim/persecutor/rescuer

Subtly controlling behaviors

Catch-22’s for s/o’s

Double standards

Backup plans & emotional infidelity, physical infidelity

Uncontrolled, long-lasting Anger and rage

Emotional/neurological storm: Long return to emotional baseline and more rational thinking

Unhealthy dependence on others to resolve problems

Giving up on therapy

Push/pull dynamic  (I hate you, don’t leave me)

Substance abuse

[morningagain]

I spent endless energy during and after the relationship demolition trying to understand  - to get the answer to "why?".  I just have to know.  Ultimately, I have needed some unmoving rock of understanding in order to understand my role and heal myself.  I spent my time in the r/s on a foundation of sand with frequently recurring earthquakes and aftershocks.

Perhaps like many of you, I had glimpses of understanding throughout - sometimes I believed "This is it!  Finally!  Now I can be who she needs me to be and help her to be who she 'was' and we will get healthy together and be happy!"  then... .  *EARTHQUAKE* and the structure of the r/s and my own stability collapsed, yet again.  Pervasive confusion and despair within me ensued... .    I could too frequently not even control or change myself

Here is my summary - perhaps just restating the info here, and only a summary therefore incomplete, but I hope this helps.  I think it helps me to understand what happened and why and some of what compelled me to trash my own values, and to be able to move forward again in my own healing:

WHY - or what is underlying - what is it that compels her?

Lack of Object consistency: not feeling the same about someone or from someone, particularly love, when (especially s/o) is not present

   Compels fear of abandonment – emotional reality includes frequent feelings OF abandonment – out of sight, out of mind or abandoned

        Compels need for immediate gratification, and conversely the rejection of and giving up on working towards delayed gratification

Black and white thinking: Lack of ability to consistently hold onto opposing feelings and thoughts simultaneously

Lack of emotional skin – some minor perceived slight can be like touching someone with 3rd degree burns

Emotional dysregulation:  thoughts, feelings and behaviors become inordinately controlled by emotions.  Subjective reality can conflict with subjective reality one day or one hour ago  “Because that’s the way I feel!”


Leads to:

Acute Fear of abandonment

Paranoia

Mirroring

Avoidance of emotional pain, especially guilt

Drama triangles – victim/persecutor/rescuer

Subtly controlling behaviors

Catch-22’s for s/o’s

Double standards

Backup plans & emotional infidelity, physical infidelity

Uncontrolled, long-lasting Anger and rage

Emotional/neurological storm: Long return to emotional baseline and more rational thinking

Unhealthy dependence on others to resolve problems

Giving up on therapy

Push/pull dynamic  (I hate you, don’t leave me)

Substance abuse

[Newton]

michael999... .  from reading your post it appears that you have a very good understanding of BPD ... .  

The next step to help yourself is the understanding that this very knowledge made you more of a threat... .  and perhaps exacerbated the symptoms... .  

Denial is the impenetrable wall they build... .  our knowledge about their illness smashes that wall down.

It's an awful catch22 situation... .  our knowledge could help them, yet they perceive it as a threat and reject it.

You know "why" now... .  so what will you do with this knowledge?

[morningagain]

michael999... .  from reading your post it appears that you have a very good understanding of BPD ... .  

The next step to help yourself is the understanding that this very knowledge made you more of a threat... .  and perhaps exacerbated the symptoms... .  

Denial is the impenetrable wall they build... .  our knowledge about their illness smashes that wall down.

It's an awful catch22 situation... .  our knowledge could help them, yet they perceive it as a threat and reject it.

You know "why" now... .  so what will you do with this knowledge?

Hey newton 

Oh indeed - knowledge of what they feel and think inside becomes very much a threat - as much as she desired me to understand, she was at least as threatened and fearful of what I might know.

As I have gained understanding of her, this has settled my mind enough to do a little self-examination.  I posted this on another thread that describes my present insights:

For me I have recognized that I would "emotionally track" my mother.  Primarily when she became depressed.  I would feel like I 'betrayed' her in some way if I was happy while she was depressed.  This lead me to "emotionally track" my wife.  Really bad idea when your wife is emotionally dysregulated.

My father was largely absent.  I constantly sought his approval.  My self-esteem became dependent on the approval of others.  Chasing my wife around her disorder trying to regain her approval directly triggered her disorder and amplified it, which in turn emotionally dysregulated and confused me, spiraling down, down, down... .  

Emotional tracking is unhealthy and thus I need to become emotionally independent.  For any relationship.  Being emotionally dependent as much as I am on another places a burden on them that I do not want.

Placing my self esteem in the hands of another's approval places a burden on them, and inordinate power over me in their hands.  Not healthy for a relationship, for me, or for others.

Those are my two big insights into myself so far... .  

What do I do with all of this knowledge?  Figure out what to do with this knowledge so I can heal.  New therapist next week that does CBT and other therapies and has experience working with BPD's spouses

so far i cannot break through my depression/apathy/lethargy.  radical acceptance hurts and is disruptive, but i'd rather build myself back up from a basis of truth, no matter how painful that truth is.

[Newton]

You are on the path I took... .  introspection... .  relating current relationships back to FOO... .  

You will be just fine my friend 

Allow yourself time... .  accept you are doing the best right now with the knowledge you have 

Your last post put a big smile on my face!... .  You will break through this oppressive darkness... .  just keep putting one foot in front of the other on the right path... .  

[morningagain]

One of the difficulties in my self-assessment was that I had not exhibited the extremes of my weaknesses prior to the r/s with my wife.  Thus I could not see the reasons for my own behavior beyond "she made me do it"  (although the irony of that thought never did escape me even during the r/s)

The symptoms of my weaknesses manifested largely in different or muted ways prior to my wife.  For example, I may withdraw to varying degrees from any kind of a relationship if there was a disagreement.  Arguments that were not as intense or long lasting.  My own anger or blaming were not as pronounced.  The intensity of the highs from the honeymoon period was overwhelming and obsessively compelling for me, drawing me incessantly to get close.  Her intelligence gave rise to, at times, rather compelling arguments for how wrong I was even when not.  The diametrically opposed feelings she expressed were incomprehensible to me - I could not relate thus she "could not possibly feel that way because she is way too intelligent to believe that".  I could go on and on.

So to say this another way, I could not see through the maelstrom for a long time to get an accurate assessment of myself.  I had become too disordered myself, due in part to my role in the dance.

Should it come as a surprise, now then, that she might have trouble with her own self-assessment?

Toughest part of my self-assessment has been acknowledging that I cannot get from a r/s with her what I need - to be healthy for me, for her, or for the r/s.  With all of my knowledge, intelligence, drive, and love... .  I cannot.  It is STILL so hard to make 'me' statements like that.

Alas, back to working on me.

[morningagain]

And to add a little more... .  

Prior to the r/s, I had very good self-esteem - at least my "in-practice" self-esteem.  I had more than enough evidence from others and my own successes to support a healthy, though certainly not ideal or even ideally composed self-esteem.

As I allowed myself to, and and chose to become further enmeshed in the r/s, more of my underlying need to draw my self-worth from others became dependent on her, thus increasingly magnifying my own weakness.  I struggled against this, but in combination with my emotional tracking of her, my increasingly unhealthy and hurtful reactions, and her (frankly) outrageous wrongs and betrayals (that is to say, increasing manifestations of her disorder), I ended up wounded and I could not get up.  The relationship in shattered, smoldering ruins.

oof.

So here I am.  Back on my feet for the moment.  Still fighting.  Hopefully, I am now fighting the right battle.  Change me, don't hurt others, help when I can (requires discernment - lest I be an 'enabler' and/or demolish myself again)

[morningagain]

previously I said (i need to) "Change me, don't hurt others, help when I can"

add in "I going to make mistakes and i will try to learn from them"

always been that way

heck, the only real difference in me now is more experience, more knowledge, perhaps more wisdom, and I am messed up.

helping requires knowing my limitations which includes knowing my needs.  i need to love and be loved.  same place as i was when we separated.

just one big constant frggin spin cycle.  gotta get off this ride... .  

[Clearmind]

The compelling factor is fear! Fear to attach, fear of engulfment and the fear of abandonment.

All these fears compound - causes our partners to be emotionally unavailable - for their own needs and to support us and the relationship.

-----

Over the years I have thought a lot about emotional availability. Am I? In choosing a disordered partner am I really allowing myself to be emotionally available - Nope!

Emotionally available folks choose those that reciprocate love, understand and trust. In order to recognize that in a potential mate we need to possess it in ourselves.

Do we need to be emotionally available to choose a disordered partner? Nope!  It actually re-creates the cycle of that feeling of not being good enough - that feeling that was instilled in some of us as kids. We relived our childhood via our partners and now the cycle needs to be stopped.

Michael, I just know you will be OK. Yes it’s painful because you are processing a lot more than just your failed relationship – your failed relationship is not your fault. We tried desperately, to the stage of losing ourselves, to remedy our relationships – we were fighting an uphill battle and our attachments to our partners were on very shaky ground from Day 1.

[myself]

Toughest part of my self-assessment has been acknowledging that I cannot get from a r/s with her what I need - to be healthy for me, for her, or for the r/s. 

That's one of the deciding points right there, where true detachment takes place.

Letting Go. Finding your own health. There can be so many connections between us, good and bad and everything in between. We'll never get around to releasing our hold on all of them. Some are vital, though, such as 'It just does not work with that person'. We can be our best and it can still not turn out. When we can deeply accept these kinds of things, we're squeezing ourselves through to better chances. Better Selves.

You're heading in the right direction, just keep going, being positive.

It's more about why you do what you do, isn't it?

And what you are accomplishing by doing it?

[BentNotBroken]

Michael-

A couple of items I noticed missing from your list: Emotional immaturity & Selfishness.

Personality traits, are they a cause or a result? The custody evaluator listed these as the two primary problems with my BPDex (he intentionally avoided formal diagnoses for both of us). These semi-public revelations must have been devastating to my ex to see in print. She projected these onto me constantly.

Extreme selfishness, possibly a product of emotional immaturity, is another perspective on the underpinning of BPD behavior. Self-centered fear, anger, greed, self-harming behavior, lack of empathy for others, etc. all behavior that would be expected of a 2-3 year old because they are in early development. Very shocking behavior when coupled with adult intelligence and physical development.

Yes, my 40 year old BPDex is quickly being surpassed in emotional development by our less than 2 yo son. When he starts to have a meltdown, it takes me about 1-2 minutes to get him calmed down, no bribery required. After 15+ years of dealing with a 2-3 year old in a woman's body, I have no problem soothing my son. Interestingly it takes BPDex much longer to get him to settle down. She starts to lose it as soon as he does, and he reads the panic very quickly.

My #1 rule with my military service was ":)on't Panic!", same with BPDex--She hated it, wanting everyone else to melt down with her. My son seems to appreciate it. No matter how bad the situation, Dad is the calm one--big hugs, even, soothing tone of voice. No crisis is big enough to lose your mind over.

(credit to Douglas Adams for ":)on't Panic!, and the Marines & my parents for the discipline to follow it.)

I have settled upon a why for BPDex's behavior: She is severely mentally ill. Her perceptions of reality are so twisted, that she is unable to see reality as anything but painful, scary, and threatening to herself. Other people are nothing more than objects for her use, manipulation, and amusement.

[morningagain]

Hey Bentnotbroken,

You wrote "Other people are nothing more than objects for her use, manipulation, and amusement."

My understanding and belief of my wife is she feels and thinks the following: "In order to fulfill my basic physical and emotional needs, I have to use and manipulate others, to protect myself from harm, to keep them from abandoning me, and to have a safe place to be or to resort to.  I do not trust myself, and I surely do not trust them.  Just look at what everyone has done to me in the past."

Either way, the result is pretty much the same, except to me and my recovery and personal growth.  I can and do forgive her (again and again as needed - I have given up my resentments each time I am able to forgive again), I do have sympathy and even empathy for her, I am able to see myself perhaps a little more clearly, I am able to make wiser decisions for me that do not rely on her being unforgivable or evil or any similar characterization.  I understand she does have the responsibility to seek therapy and follow through with it, even though it is unknowingly difficult and painful for her to do so.  I do not live her pain, I do not have the ability to read her heart.

And I still churn and spin.  I hurt and I want to help.  I obsess over understanding her and myself.  I want a better life for me, and for her.  I fight my desire to try again - I know intellectually how unrealistic it is, I know myself better and believe I need more than she can give even if her BPD was in remission, which requires that I believe I am unhealthy for her as well.  Two are as one.

Well, this is my reality anyway.