Visitation Threat by Psychologist

[VIDEO: "What is parental alienation?"]

The stbxudBPD and I met with a child psychologist, recommended by the L. The guy was an absolute nut job.  Examples:  He asked each of us to list our  complaints against the other, then we would be given a chance to rebuttal.  After the bout of complaints he says, this is taking to long, no time for rebuttals.  I explained what I wanted the father to have for visitation, every other weekend from Friday evening through to Monday evening with one weekday evening.  He stated no judge would give me that. Dad currently has the aforementioned plus Sunday evening on my weekend and Monday evenings.  It isn't working because of too much going back and forth.  In addition the kids don't like spending time with their father.  They are three teenagers and have numerous after school activities.  I then asked how old the kids had to be to refuse visitation, he then raked me over the coals, saying using the word visitation was derogatory and mean.  Then said visitation would continue till 18 or the kids would be sent to Juvenal detention.  I have tried researching this information and haven't been able to validate it.  I live in Virginia.  The psych then went on to tell of his own devastated childhood due to divorce then how he and his wife were the perfect divorcees, even having Thanksgiving together. 

StbxBPD spent $1500 with this guy and we got nowhere.  The psych kept saying we would have to learn to communicate.  I refuse to communicate except through email.  He kept saying I was being unreasonable.  I finally broke down, left the office telling stbx that I would never be alone with him or talk to him on the phone after spending 20 years with him yelling and screaming at me.  I am sure it made me look like the crazy person.

If anyone knows VA state law I would really appreciate the help.  I have an appt. with new L next week.  After four months of inaction I have dumped the last one.

[Iforget]

The stbxudBPD and I met with a child psychologist, recommended by the L. The guy was an absolute nut job.  Examples:  He asked each of us to list our  complaints against the other, then we would be given a chance to rebuttal.  After the bout of complaints he says, this is taking to long, no time for rebuttals.  I explained what I wanted the father to have for visitation, every other weekend from Friday evening through to Monday evening with one weekday evening.  He stated no judge would give me that. Dad currently has the aforementioned plus Sunday evening on my weekend and Monday evenings.  It isn't working because of too much going back and forth.  In addition the kids don't like spending time with their father.  They are three teenagers and have numerous after school activities.  I then asked how old the kids had to be to refuse visitation, he then raked me over the coals, saying using the word visitation was derogatory and mean.  Then said visitation would continue till 18 or the kids would be sent to Juvenal detention.  I have tried researching this information and haven't been able to validate it.  I live in Virginia.  The psych then went on to tell of his own devastated childhood due to divorce then how he and his wife were the perfect divorcees, even having Thanksgiving together. 

StbxBPD spent $1500 with this guy and we got nowhere.  The psych kept saying we would have to learn to communicate.  I refuse to communicate except through email.  He kept saying I was being unreasonable.  I finally broke down, left the office telling stbx that I would never be alone with him or talk to him on the phone after spending 20 years with him yelling and screaming at me.  I am sure it made me look like the crazy person.

If anyone knows VA state law I would really appreciate the help.  I have an appt. with new L next week.  After four months of inaction I have dumped the last one.

[Waddams]

I lived in VA for 32 years before moving to GA.  My sister is currently divorcing a guy that is getting more and more unhinged by the day, and her L sounds like he's doing the right things.  As for this T you saw, from what I know of VA laws, it sounds like he's incorrect to say it nicely.  I can PM you my sister's L if you'd like a referral.  Not sure if you're in the right part of the state, but it couldn't hurt, and maybe he knows someone where you are he could refer you too?  Always helps to get personal referals instead of throwing darts at the phone book (or google results these days!).

[ForeverDad]

What is the purpose of seeing this child psychologist?  What gets accomplished here?  How does it help the divorce proceed?  Can his bias or ineptness be used against you?

I have a few thoughts... .

• He really sounds inept, biased, judgmental or all of those.  Whose lawyer suggested him?  Does he have experience, trust and recommendation of the local professional community?



• Not hearing the rebuttals is leaving everything half-done, he can't know the full story.



• I understand what he says about the children not having the right to decide the schedule but the fact is they're older and they can easily "vote with their feet".  Often older children do get a voice in such matters, though a court also ought to be relatively sure one parent isn't alienating the other parent.
  
  Be forewarned: Years ago I got raked over the coals when the magistrate ordered daily phone calls and I timidly asked, 'Even when he doesn't want to talk?"  Remember, you're the parent, you decide, these parenting things are not left for the children to decide.  Whether the children follow it, well, those are details that most courts manage to avoid having to deal with.



• "Then said visitation would continue till 18 or the kids would be sent to Juvenal Detention."  I don't know your area or how things are done there but that sounds draconian and maybe unlikely.  Counseling ought to be a much better consequence.



• "The psych then went on to tell of his own devastated childhood due to divorce then how he and his wife were the perfect divorcees, even having Thanksgiving together."  His own divorce has little to do with his professional work.  While it's nice for him that he gets along with his ex, and it's nice to hold that out as an option for his clients to aim for, not every ex-couple can make that work, not when one parent is obstructive.

[ugghh]

Iforget - a couple of questions

1)

The stbxudBPD and I met with a child psychologist, recommended by the L

Are you and stbx sharing the same lawyer?  If so this is a bad, bad move for you.  Kudos to finding a new lawyer, one that has your best interest at heart.  There is little to anything to be gained by meeting with an evaluator together. This is not MC, this is to assess your ability as a parent.  As always, I recommend that the L you hire be highly experienced in dealing with high conflict opponents.

2) Regarding the whole not wanting to visit the father, as ForeverDad said the reality is that the older they get the more they become like, well teenagers who want to make their own decisions.  Regarding the actual legal criteria for establishing custody, here is a link I found to the custody guidelines as posted by a Virginia law firm www.livesaymyers.com/how-courts-decide-custody-cases-in-virginia/.

A few comments on the matter of teenagers.  First, because you are a caring parent and are trying to help you kids deal with this difficult situation, you brought forth the issue of not visiting on their behalf.  Tread with caution here.  Based on your description here, yes this guy was a nut, but many GAL / CE are attuned to listened for parents looking for excuses to alienate the other parent.  Rather than you initiating the conversation, it would be better if the kids asked themselves. Do not bring it up when you talk to the  GAL / CE, however if they ask, be prepared to emphasize how you provide opportunities for the kids to have contact, either via phone, computer, etc.

Secondly, when it comes to actually writing out a custody plan for the court to approve, be careful in your choice of language that ends up in the formal document.  I fully expected that whatever was written would be used by my stbx if she could, regarding visitation of my 17 year old son who can't stand her.  The language that we ended up  with totally removes me from the equation - it states that, "Mother and son shall directly work out such periods of visitation as are mutually acceptable."

Yes, she is still threatening to sue me, but I am not locked into some type of documented, of which he would refuse anyway.

[Iforget]

Uugghh,

My L recommended using the psych to work on the visitation schedule.

My new lawyer is experienced with high conflict divorce, she was recommended by a Therapist that I trust greatly.

I will take yours and others advice on the child not wanting to visit.  I hasn't actually come up yet, stbx is still playing nice, but I know it will surface soon. 

Thanks for the idea for the custody plan.  My kids are 15, 15, 13 and just at the age to be able to deal with dad.  I have ran interference until this past year when the divorce started.  It has been very hard for them.  They avoid talking to him about anything to avoid interaction.

Forever dad:

Thanks for the advice suggestion.  Yes, the man was very unprofessional.  He was suppose to help us work on the visitation schedule.  At first I was mad for the wasted time and rudeness, then I became scared, what can he do to me/the kids.  I don't plan to see him again and if stbx tries to bring him into divorce proceedings I will object.

Waddams,

Thanks for the suggestion.  I'm OK with the new L. 


This is a new topic, but, how do you help the kids deal with the udBPD parent.  My son asked his father to pick up some prescriptions from the pharmacy.  I had called them in, but he picks up and pays.  udBPD parent starts asking ds15, why do you need the meds? are you completely out?  what are they for? ds answered appropriately.  udBPD starts asking the same questions again, always in a confrontational manner.  Ds then just walks away.  I don't know what to tell the kids.  I remind them that the issue is not about them, it is about control.  UdBPD parent has money issues, anytime he is asked to pay for something he make this huge deal out of it.  This is hard for the kids and I don't know how to help them.

[ugghh]

This is a new topic, but, how do you help the kids deal with the udBPD parent.

The short answer is either through professional counseling, books or in other manner you help your kids learn the tools that are recommended for anyone in relationship with pwBPD.  It is not necessarily a bad thing that Ds walks away when father gets confrontational.   If the kids choose to continue a relationship with the parent with BPD, it is going to become a necessary life skill for them to learn to set boundaries,  not to JADE, etc. 

Perhaps the most important thing that you can do for your kids is help them keep their sanity and self esteem.  Particularly with your older kids (15 i think) you will find that kids are much more attuned not only to the parent's crazy making behavior but to your efforts to provide stability.  There are many ways of  providing support without necessarily having to say much.

For example in as my daughter went through high school, she would often come to me in frustration at dealing with her BPD mother.  After listening to her relate whatever the latest incident happened I would often tell her that her statement seemed logical.  I would also tell her that is hard to have a logical conversation with  an illogical person.  It was an oft repeated statement over the years and my simple way of affirming my daughter.

The other thing that was that my daughter and I would simply exchange the word "ugghh" hence my screen name here.  As in think of trying to run in mud or quicksand and after about 10 or 15 minutes you go "Ugghh!" and throw up your hands in frustration.    Typically she would send me this when my uBPDw was on one of her epic benders about whatever transgression had occurred.  I would usually reply with a simple "Hang in there." or give me a call when you can.  It let's the kids know that your are there for them.