Does anyone know what attachment style is typical for pwBPD? What about ours?

[VIDEO: "What is parental alienation?"]

Do pwBPD even have a attachment style they typically fall under?
Are they normally the avoidant attachment style?
Do you know what your attachment style is?

[Curiously1]

Do pwBPD even have a attachment style they typically fall under?
Are they normally the avoidant attachment style?
Do you know what your attachment style is?

[vanx]

I was pretty obsessed with attachment theory. It does help as a handy context. Someone def correct me if I'm wrong, but it seemed Fearful-Avoudant described a pwBPD well? A strong desire to connect but also great discomfort. I know I am anxious-preoccupied, but woring on it . How about you?

[FSTL]

My mildly BPDx appeared to have an anxious attachment for most of the time. Clingy, desperate, etc. But then one day (when we got serious) she suddenly turned avoidant and wanted to pushed me away. The same thing happened over and over again throughout the relationship. We would break up when she was either really anxious (and scared I would dump her) or avoidant and pushing me away. She lived in the moment.

My head is still spinning, so wouldn't want to say what attachment style I had. All I know is that I wasn't anxious when I met her, but after all the what the heck moments with her, I was certainly anxious at the end and she lost a a lot of respect for me as a result.

My guess is my BPD would probably do best with an avoidant ass who treats her with some distance. That way there is little chance she would get close, whilst also getting off on all the drama.

[vanx]

FSTL, that's an insightful point. Perhaps it is actually a shift between the two attachment styles.

[Dutched]

Maybe this older topic might help to determine attachment styles

https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=279028.0

[Curiously1]

My therapist told me I have an ambivalent/anxious attachment style.
It makes sense  to me because I always wanted more intimacy and would openly express my wants, needs.  don't appear clingy but underneath it all is that feeling I get is kind of quiet desperation to try and make her understand my perspective and have us work together for a resolution which was such a struggle. I felt alone and that made me feel more crazy and anxious in the end. I was more acting out but not in an unreasonable way more like in a way i had enough and was so frustrated that I couldnt get through to her.

My therapist thinks my exes attachment style is avoidant. She does not like to talk about feelings or how certain things upset me. This is why I know its so important for me to communicate my fears or what i am worried about to my partner and have them understand and try and work with me. BPD have trouble doing that. She only appeared more clingy in the idealisation phase where she wanted me to move in right away and would text me shes been thinking about me often etc.  However she distances herself emotionally and especially if certain responsibilities or things need to be discussed. The silent treatment is preferred or concluding that what the issue I have presented is all trivial. She would tell me she needed to pull away to discourage me from expecting her to entertain trivial nonsense that annoys her. The stuff I discussed were not trivial at all. They were more to do with shared responsibilities and ways we can both feel good and secure together. She basically thought that I was the only one with a problem and to go get help and come back later kind of attitude or to just drop everything, not ever bring things up and always agree to do things her way.

Vanx, I don't know if it's possible to fluctuate between the two but it could be. I feel more distant in some r/s and more clingy (but not obviously clingy) in others. Mentioned that to the T but she said mine is ambivalent/anxious. I do push/pull as well but only when I am feeling anxious and suspicious or untrusting. My ex was more pulling me to get close to her so soon which felt good because of my attachment style but yes, everytime certain things that will help the r/s grow needed to be discussed she would push to teach me some kind of lesson to not bring up what she thought was just trivial things. She was addicted to my push/pull and I guess I was addicted to her push/pull but mostly push.

[Sunfl0wer]

I wonder if you have read the book Attached?

The silent treatment is preferred or concluding that what the issue I have presented is all trivial. She would tell me she needed to pull away to discourage me from expecting her to entertain trivial nonsense that annoys her. The stuff I discussed were not trivial at all. They were more to do with shared responsibilities and ways we can both feel good and secure together. She basically thought that I was the only one with a problem and to go get help and come back later kind of attitude or to just drop everything, not ever bring things up and always agree to do things her way.

This is exactly like my ex.  I do not believe he had BPD, but more like NPD/DPD/BPD traits or such.

Really though the biggest issue in our dynamics was this that you said.
He was certainly the avoidant type.  He always wanted to run from conflict either via burying his head in the sand, ST, working longer hours to come home too tired to be available for anything.  There was a lot of just expecting the issues to go away if he pretended long enough or ST long enough or such.  As the relationship went on, and running away got harder, cause we lived together, it became cycles of emotional abuse and ST was a huge part of that cycle usually.  It was like he felt with enough, longer ST phases, he could reset things back to a honeymoon phase or such... .Until MC finally bluntly told him this is abuse.

This is an issue because I am very inclined to turn towards a person I love to try to face conflict to resolve, or join in some way to partner up in the face of stress.

The book explains pretty well somewhere how avoidants and other styles except secure really don't jive well much.  I can see this in our dynamic.  When things went bad, got stressful or such, I wanted to pull my sleeves up and join my partner to support one another. To "find" each other and meet each other and join.  He wanted to escape/disconnect the discomfort until it faded.  

It was a bit feelings=facts issue.
He would feel badly for doing something or for something.
I could be sick => he feels helpless
=> he distances, goes out instead of helping to remove himself from what he perceives as the source of his discomfort, me.
He then feels ok when out
Avoids me when my flu is gone or such.

That is so NOT my style, and clearly helps me see how incompatible we were.

So anyway... .
I loved that book Attached.
Really helped me come to peace with us not working out.
Avoidants need a Secure one
I know I am not a secure one.
Likely a Disorganized type but the book and literature in general doesn't talk much about that type for me to be certain, but pretty sure I must be Disorganized.

I think I can do good with a secure, or an anxious attached since I can work well with someone so long as we are turning towards in the face of stuff. I have intermittent avoidance like sometimes I just gave up turning towards ex due to lack of results and would be pretty numb, not trying.  Yet, if I saw the other person responding by putting effort to turn towards, it would cause me to have compassion for that and also help me find my way back if I am otherwise exasperated.

Good thing though is that I do feel via my Trauma therapy this is actually changing.  More of my insecure aspects are gaining secure ground.  But atm, still Disorganized... .Ok with that too :P

Attached Author: Amir Levine, MD and Rachel Heller, MA Publisher: Penguin Group (January 5, 2012) Paperback: 304 pages ISBN-10: 1585429139 ISBN-13: 9781585429134

[Curiously1]

Thanks sunfl0wer.  I think that my ex also has narcissitic or sociopathic traits as well. She actually self diagnosed herself as BPD and because her exes used to bring it up to her but that she had cured when she first mentioned BPD to me. Whatever traits she has are extremeley dysfunctional either way and has not cured it.

It has been my guess that a great many of us nons who have more codependent traits are anxious attachment styles. We really go above and beyone to make something work in a kind of desperate fashion.

I have read the book but not for a very long time. I read it when I was trying to make the r/s work with my ex and my T telling what she thinks both our attachment styles are. I don't remember if they mentioned disorganized type in that specific book. Did they?

I even gave my ex a pdf copy of the book as well as the 5 love languages book. I told her to read it. She told me she skimmed through it and saw it was a waste of time and common sense. She knew all of what was in that book already! uhhhgh.

I am glad that your trauma therapy has been working for you. It is so important to feel, process and navigate yourself through feelings as a way of healing.

I think that I am not overly insecure though. I think it should be ok to mention to your partner when you are anxious or worried about a certain thing and not have them drop you and leave you etc. It was only when she did those things did I felt triggered anxious/insecure and want to chase for an immediate feeling of a relief/resolution etc. and where I felt like I wasnt in control of myself if someone was not working with me and always against me it seems. That anxious feeling I need to focus on yes, and getting my needs met someplace else when she is doing the ST on me BUT my T said if I was with someone with a secure attachment I wouldnt feel this crazy and treated that way in the first place anyhow. I'd be my mostly relaxed calm self.

Your example of your ex distancing when you are sick reminds me of how my ex dropped her friend after she disclosed to her she was raped that day. It was too  much for my ex to handle she did not sympathise or empathise with the friend and basically left her to cry alone and told her she was too emotional to be at that time. Basically she was uncomfortable. I was with my ex for just less than a year and it scared me to think that if I got into any accident or if I was suffering in some way or something bad happened to me that my ex wont possibly be there for me just by the example of how cold she was to her friend.

Perhaps the nons who are still in a long term committed relationship with their BPD partners have more secure attachment. Who knows?
A relationship still takes two though or two who are willing to stay together and I guess that even if you had a more secure attachment I don't think it'll necessarily secure the relationship with a BPD yknow? BPD can just decide to leave cos of the cycles they go through. You cant fix them even if you are 'secure' and more calm or handle it better you still can't. It all depends.
It's interesting to think about though.

[vortex of confusion]

Thank you for this thread!

I have been trying to figure out why I have felt so anxious/insecure at times in the relationship. I look back on the two "serious" relationships that I had before ex. I don't ever recall the feelings of anxiety and insecurity that I felt with ex. The anxiety/insecurity comes from the fact that when I would try to turn towards him and work through things (even if it was messy) he would behave as though I was being unreasonable and had no reason to mistrust him or work through things. How could somebody NOT be anxious and insecure when their partner has behaved like he did? How could one NOT be anxious and insecure when they don't know if their partner is going to ditch them or threaten to ditch them? Or, ditch you without really ditching you. Ex would dump me to go chase other women online and then tell me that he wasn't doing it. I was still his wife and he still loved me, blah, blah, blah.

I am not sure what ex's attachment style is. He acted like he could do anything that he wanted and I would still be there.

[vanx]

This is an interesting thread with a lot of great input. I read that book "Attached" a little while back from seeing it recommended here (I would add another recommendation for it). To support vortex, I do remember it made a point that extremes in either anxious or avoidant could bring out opposite tendencies from a partner. I know I felt a lot more anxious myself when I tried to address certain things and was told it was all in my head. I definitely feel for you there!
I think it is important to look at your history, and also keep in mind that your style isn't necessarily constant, and can depend on the other person or just where you are in life etc. For me, I know for sure I have an anxious history. The BPD relationship was tough and confusing for me because I had refrained from relationships many years to work on security. The switch in my partner's behavior was very confusing after getting used to the initial connection.
It has made me question, what would I do if I had been 100% secure? I know for me, my biggest mistake was conceding the values I had worked to build, in order to save the relationship. If I could go back, I would have walked away sooner. This was a tough lesson in me taking care of myself to never do that again.
Sunfl0wer, wow, the way you write about all this really speaks to me, and you sound like you are figuring out what works for you. Your comments about "turning in" hit the nail on the head for me. That is #1 for me. Even if we have a bad fight or something, I want to feel confident a partner and I will keep that foundation of talking it out and wanting to work on it. You can really grow I think from honoring how someone sees things differently, even if you do clash at times.
Now, I was in a very short relationship. For those of you who were together longer, I am curious, was part of the issue for you the sudden appearance of avoidant traits too? My experience matches FTSL's, except it ended very quickly.
But yeah, we're all working toward a healthy partnership, and I think these types of tools are really positive.

[vortex of confusion]

I know I felt a lot more anxious myself when I tried to address certain things and was told it was all in my head. I definitely feel for you there!

When I look back on our 18 years together, there were times when I felt secure and there were times when I felt anxious. Looking back in hindsight, I can see that the times when I was most anxious were the times when he was turning away from me and turning towards stuff like porn (in the very beginning), computer games, or other women. I was most anxious when I tried to bring up stuff and was told that I was imagining things or that I wasn't seeing what I was seeing. I would feel like there was something he wasn't telling me or that he was hiding. I usually found out later that he had been up to something. His behavior would change and I would say something and would be told that his behavior hadn't changed.

Now, I was in a very short relationship. For those of you who were together longer, I am curious, was part of the issue for you the sudden appearance of avoidant traits too?

I feel like ex's avoidant traits came out most when I would try to share with him in order to get some kind of help/support/resolution.

I became very anxious and insecure when his solution to everything was "let's see other people" after being married for 15 years. What compounded that insecurity was the fact that there were lots of divorce threats. He made a couple of suicide threats. I didn't know what I was going to get from one day to the next. It was really difficult to be secure in a situation where I knew that he would run to another person the minute I pushed too hard. There were times when I did push too hard. The more he tried to avoid and ignore me and my feelings, the more provocative I would get. Any kind of big emotion from me seemed to trigger avoidance from him. Bottling up so much stuff for so long also contributed to me being anxious.

I think back on the serious relationship I had before ex and I don't recall ever feeling so insecure. That guy went to a strip club and spent a lot of money and it didn't phase me. I didn't see it as some kind of threat to the relationship. Even during the break up, I didn't have any doubts about how he felt about me. His actions and his words were in alignment.

[michel71]

Looking at the pwBPD's attachment style(s) would anybody agree that at the beginning when everything was magic and unicorns their attachment style was different?

I don't know much about attachment styles and I want to read the book. That might help me understand our dynamic more and what I can look for in the future should I chose to find another partner.

[vanx]

vortex,
Thank you for giving me some input based on your marriage. I know your r/l was much longer term than mine, but yes, I still feel that the scenarios you describe ring a bell big time.

"His actions and his words were in alignment". Wow, yes. This. In many ways this is huge, isn't it? Yes, it's so challenging to feel that you can have this connection, and then that eerie feeling where someone is far away, and especially when your own sanity, perception is directly challenged. But consistent communication is huge, and trust, integrity.
From someone who does have a history of insecure attachment in r/l, it's comforting to hear that you are someone who is more secure, and still experienced the insecure feelings.
I'm glad you were able to search your own r/l history and the inventory of who you are. Thanks for answering my questions!


michel, you should check the book out! It's a pretty breezy read and is insightful, even just as something to consider. Yes, haha actually they might make "magic and unicorns" an additional attachment style in the new edition hahaha. I know for me, a little idealization is always to be expected early on. This case threw me off because it didn't seem outlandish, just so natural and comfortable. I remember feeling NOT anxious because I felt that even if we decided not to keep dating, it would be a mutual understanding, as vortex said, and just having that communication and connection was more important than holding on to the r/l. In general, I think any insecurities in a person's attachment style aren't necessarily identifiable at the beginning, but at the same time, I know with my pwBPD there seemed to be an unusually confusing contrast, as though it was a different person. But yeah, you should check out the book!

[Technique]

If they are with someone who is totally into them they will freak out and sleep with someone else.

If they are with someone who isn't really into them they will freak out and sleep with someone else.