Married with kids, an affair, and BPD-like behavior

[Before you can make things better, you have to stop making them worse...]

I hadn't written on here in a couple days.  I thought I would share.

I stayed in the house with her and the kids this weekend.  Last night was very much a struggle.  Had it not already been past midnight when things got somewhat out of control, I don't think I would have stayed.  As it was, it was no worse than yelling though all very black and white for her.  Friday... .  i slept with the little ones so she could sleep.  Last night, I stayed on the couch.  What did I do to warrant the couch?  We got back to the discussion of the text from last week.  I let her know I perceived the extensive texting with another man as having an impact on our relationship.  She got upset but stayed grounded.  Then we started talking about trying marriage counseling again and that... .  well that seems to be a non-starter for her.  She is unwilling to go to any kind of counseling.  And that is her stance.  To change that stance, I will have to demonstrate perfection for some undetermined period of time.  I thought a good long while on how to phrase that last sentence.  this isn't normal perfection we are talking about.  It is the kind where I meet all her expectations and desires in ways that she sees as meaningful. 

Tonight... .  well tonight the family came to the in-laws after a long day of kids sports.  So we were all here.  Things were nice.  I think we actually connected in a few ways, though I could feel remnants of the conversation last night in her mannerisms.

What I did notice that I am struggling with a little is this... .  

I am much more comfortable showing her affection when there are other people around.  And I think I figured it out.  I am scared of her reaction to anything I do when we are alone together.  When there are others, I can act more like myself because I am not faced with the same extreme reactions.

Anyway... .  one small lesson and my goodness... .  I need sleep after the last two nights.  Conversations ALWAYS go on too long.  So there is a question someone here might be able to answer.  How do you end a conversation with a BPDer (wife or otherwise) w/o "hurting her feelings".  Bleh.

[thefisherman]

I hadn't written on here in a couple days.  I thought I would share.

I stayed in the house with her and the kids this weekend.  Last night was very much a struggle.  Had it not already been past midnight when things got somewhat out of control, I don't think I would have stayed.  As it was, it was no worse than yelling though all very black and white for her.  Friday... .  i slept with the little ones so she could sleep.  Last night, I stayed on the couch.  What did I do to warrant the couch?  We got back to the discussion of the text from last week.  I let her know I perceived the extensive texting with another man as having an impact on our relationship.  She got upset but stayed grounded.  Then we started talking about trying marriage counseling again and that... .  well that seems to be a non-starter for her.  She is unwilling to go to any kind of counseling.  And that is her stance.  To change that stance, I will have to demonstrate perfection for some undetermined period of time.  I thought a good long while on how to phrase that last sentence.  this isn't normal perfection we are talking about.  It is the kind where I meet all her expectations and desires in ways that she sees as meaningful. 

Tonight... .  well tonight the family came to the in-laws after a long day of kids sports.  So we were all here.  Things were nice.  I think we actually connected in a few ways, though I could feel remnants of the conversation last night in her mannerisms.

What I did notice that I am struggling with a little is this... .  

I am much more comfortable showing her affection when there are other people around.  And I think I figured it out.  I am scared of her reaction to anything I do when we are alone together.  When there are others, I can act more like myself because I am not faced with the same extreme reactions.

Anyway... .  one small lesson and my goodness... .  I need sleep after the last two nights.  Conversations ALWAYS go on too long.  So there is a question someone here might be able to answer.  How do you end a conversation with a BPDer (wife or otherwise) w/o "hurting her feelings".  Bleh.

[TheWind]

I have been in the exact same situation as you, fisherman. mine was for 2 months in the spring of 2009. it was he'll before that, but more since. I already had given up my friends, church, hobbies, and every shred of human dignity to try to sacrifice for the marriage and the result was more demands and more disrespect. that was before. I was an empty shell contemplating going awol on the day I ran into "her".

since then it has been brutal. all the more sacrifice, apologizing, taking responsibility, and giving up of everything again, this time for a real reason. still, the result was the same. emptiness for me and unhappiness and more demands from her. she abused me. physically for 1.5 years, only stopped when the police put cuffs on her. I took back my privacy after almost 3 years after she abused it. I started working out and going to church again despite threats and rages about how she can't trust me and I am heaping all this abuse on her. after a time, there is simply nothing more we can do. We hurt them, and we can only change the decisions we make in the future. we can be the only ones to determine our happiness level. not any validation from others. at some point they will have to bear the responsibility for their pain and deal with it. taking abuse is just that. no matter the reason, it will not benefit anyone. good luck in your decisions.

[livednlearned]

How do you end a conversation with a BPDer (wife or otherwise) w/o "hurting her feelings".  Bleh.

I admire your optimism 

Another way to phrase your question: "Can I have boundaries without hurting my wife's feelings?"

Maybe this will provide some guidance?

How to stop circular arguments

Why do they happen?

Cause our partners are mentally ill and have difficulty expressing themselves in clear enough fashion for us to understand.

Cause our partners are mentally ill and feelings = facts to them.

Cause our partners are mentally ill and they need to control what they can - us.

Cause our partners are mentally ill and can't stand to lose.

Cause we like to "be right" too.

Cause we can't let it go either.

Cause we need to prove our point.

Cause we are too afraid to walk away from the argument.

Cause we want to hurt them back.

Cause we feel trapped - either literally or emotionally.

Cause we hope that we can change their minds.

Cause we hope that we can get them to understand.

Cause we are co-dependent and need to "fix" them and their flawed way of thinking.

How do we stop them?

By taking control of the only thing you can - yourself.

That means that you recognize what is happening - a pointless argument that is going badly and that needs to end - then finding the courage/strength/attitude to  take action and take a TIME OUT .

~ You don't wait to win or lose. It's not a competition.

~ You don't worry about how they will respond. This is about protecting yourself - not them.

~ You don't hope that it will end soon. You are not a helpless victim.

~ You don't fear their anger. You have a right to protect yourself from harm.

Write this on something and read it 10 times a day till you firmly get it.

* Don't argue

* Don't defend

* Don't justify

* Don't explain

* Don't counter attack

* Take care of yourself and take a time out.

[Take2]

I seriously need to copy and paste that and refer to it many many times a day... .  

thank you for listing that... .  

[Matt]

You can only do what you think is right, and say what you believe is true.

You can't control how someone else decides to react to it.

Having her feelings hurt is a choice she makes.

[livednlearned]

Having her feelings hurt is a choice she makes.

That is so simple, and so hard, and so true.

[DreamGirl]

Locking this one up - it had reached the 4 page limit.

The split can be found here:  https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=193257.0