Should I go No Contact?

[uncleowenrip]

Reading through some of the other posts I'm running into the same things as everyone else here. I'm ruminating a lot post-breakup, having trouble dealing with probably being "replaced" already, and figuring out if we can stay friends. It's sort of comforting to know how average it apparently is.

I'm going to be mostly ranting here because it helps me to vent... .

I split with my BPDex about 2 1/2 weeks ago. She had been sexting other men, I caught her. She wanted to continue it but stay together, I broke it off. She said she needed to grow up and mature, that she loved me but felt like she couldn't be the girl I needed her to be yet. (5 year age gap between us)

Friday-
Well, a little over a week post-break up we had dinner. It was my suggestion after she texted me after 1 week NC. We talked about things and she was in as rough a spot as I was coping with it. She didn't want this and neither did I, we still loved eachother. But it made sense to break up. We made out a little and I dropped her off at home.

Tuesday-
Then three days later she texts me in the middle of the night asking if I was home. So I met her and went to a bar with her down the street. She was all dressed up, clearly just came from a date. She admitted as much. She was drunk and said she missed me. She said she knows that she's doing all this to try and grow up, but the thought of being with me again one day is what keeps her going. She said she's holding onto that. I told her I couldn't do anything else to save our relationship right now, but if she wanted to fight for this one day, I'd listen. We held hands and made out a little bit and I dropped her off again.

Sunday-
Now I saw her yesterday and that didn't go too well. I'd asked her that first Friday if she wanted to see a movie with me. So we went to get lunch and see the movie yesterday. She was acting much more distant. Not really contributing to conversations and just texting a lot. She would talk about her new male "friends" quite a bit. And things she'd been doing around town. Told me how the night before she was up until 5 AM.  I asked doing what, she just said "being awake".

Well anyway, after a somewhat awkward day out, I go to drop her off. For some reason, I couldn't hold it in. I didn't want to just say "well goodbye!" like normal friends. I'd just really been confronted with the hard evidence that what we had was now probably dead. Truly being treated as "just a friend". It seems she's moved on to someone(s) new already.

I told her I loved her again, admitted I shouldn't say it but it was true. Unlike the last two times we were together, she seemed frustrated and tired by it. She went to reach for the car door but stopped herself.

I said I wasn't sure if I'd ever see her again after this. I told her it seemed like she's moved on. She said what do you mean by that. I said it seemed like she's built a new life for herself already. She said that doesn't mean she has to cut me out of it completely.

She said we could hang out sometimes and hang out with her roommate. I told her that I may be open to it but I really don't think I could handle hanging out with her and any new boyfriends.

I do like her roommate and became friends with him. He's reached out to say we could still hang out. I would like to stay in touch with him but just I'm not sure I feel like seeing her.

Now I'm just thinking I should go No Contact at all with her? Hanging out with her this last time and hearing about all her "Friends" and her new life really bothered me quite a bit.  Of course, that's selfish of me, because she has the right to do whatever she wants now. It's also a bit hypocritical, because I've gone on dates too.

I'm just messed up a bit. Do you think I should just ignore her if she texts me again or tell her I want to go no contact? I still constantly think about her, and am just so mad that she's moved on already, especially since her whole thing was about working on herself and being an individual. Now jumping right to some other dude. It drives me mad. I can't figure what's going on in her head. If she's just completely shut off her feelings for me and transferred them to someone new... .I guess it shouldn't be my problem anymore...

Sorry for the rant.

[once removed]

going from friends to lovers is a very difficult transition, especially when feelings are present, and vulnerable.

from our article here: https://bpdfamily.com/content/no-contact-right-way-wrong-way

The key elements of "No Contact" are

to get the partner out of your day-to- day life,
to stop thinking in terms of a relationship,
to take them out of your vision of the future,
to stop wondering about how they are perceiving everything you are doing, and
to stop obsessing with how they are reacting (or not reacting) or what they are doing.

it does sound like things are still raw, and that the current dynamic is painful, and may be making it harder for you to detach. whatever you do, i think it makes sense to get some space and distance and focus on healing. this doesnt mean you have to cut her off or ignore her. it might include verbalizing to her that you need some time and distance, or it might include just slowly but actively removing yourself from the current dynamic/interaction.

sometimes, after the relationship has been grieved, former lovers do go on to be friends, at various levels. sometimes one or both parties decides its best to move on. you will be in a much better place to judge for yourself with some time, distance, grieving, and healing.

what do you think?

[balletomane]

Uncleowenrip, I think at the moment you are in a state of limbo, and this is a very painful and unhelpful place to get stuck in. You describe breaking up with your girlfriend - but then you describe a couple of subsequent dates. Friends don't normally go out to dinner or drinks together and then make out. So long as you are still strongly attached to her it will be difficult to make the transition to a friendship.

This is how my recycle with my ex began: he dumped me in a fit of paranoia, then claimed he couldn't remember any of the hurtful things he said and continued to behave exactly as if we were still a couple. (He even invited me to New Year's dinner with his extended family and presented me to everyone as his girlfriend.) In my heart of hearts I knew this was going nowhere good, but I was so terrified at the idea of losing him entirely that I went along with it. In his mind, it meant that he could still have me while he secretly played the field. In my mind, it meant that he still loved me and wanted me. He concealed the flings he had on the go at this time and he oscillated between being extremely loving to me and extremely paranoid about the possibility of me cheating on him, which confirmed to me that he saw us as a couple. Then he dropped me like a hot potato one day, having found someone else who wanted a serious relationship with him, and when I started to cry, his reaction was, "But we broke up over a year ago."

That is where limbo got me. It isn't pretty. Only you can decide whether NC is the best thing for you, but I can tell you without a shadow of a doubt not to end up in that murky zone between a partner and a friend. Within two weeks of getting together with his new girlfriend, my ex had had an argument with her, cut himself, and was texting me for comfort and support. I had to excuse myself halfway through the conversation because I felt so miserable. I saw with terrible clarity how this was going to go - he was going to use me as a crutch whenever his relationship started to buckle, then drop me when it righted itself again. I felt like an object that was sometimes useful and that was expected to remain out of sight the rest of the time, until it was wanted. And given that triangulation is a common pattern in the social worlds of people with BPD, I think it is likely that your ex could treat you in a similar way, if things feel less than ideal with these other men she's pursuing. This is another feature of life in limbo.

Maybe, if and when she's in a better place herself, you and your ex will be able to get back together. But if that's the hope, staying in limbo doesn't help. It will just exacerbate the chaos and destructive behaviours. Maybe it's over for good, but either way, you need to be moving on. Is NC the best way to do that? For me it was, because my ex's behaviour was draining the life out of me and I could not have detached properly while I was still in touch with him. But at first I was very resistant to the idea. I had all sorts of reasons why NC wouldn't be the right choice for me, but they were all excuses to cover up the real reason: I didn't want to let him go and was terrified at the thought of life without him. That was pure unadulterated fear and grief talking, and in the end I realised I couldn't let my pain dictate my actions - I'd never recover if I did.

However, I don't think NC is the only way to detach. Not everyone is the same as me. Be honest with yourself about your reasons for the choices you make and be prepared to look seriously at your needs, and you will make a good decision.

[roberto516]

It's definitely your choice uncleowen. I couldn't do it in my situation. She kept trying to. But as the previous poster said, I was just a crutch for when she was emotionally struggling. And then she knew that I still wanted to be with her so when I started to back away she'd say "Well what if I wanted to try again?" It wasn't malicious. She probably was/is very confused about us. Aside from BPD she is the most indecisive human being I know (unless that's a common trait).

Anyway, back to you. It is your choice. My only suggestion would be to give it a little space. If in a week, 2 weeks you still feel like a friendship could work it might be telling you something. Or you might find that with space, and time your thoughts go in the complete opposite direction.

Keep us posted will you? 

[Rayban]

Unclowenrip

Sounds so much like the last few interactions with my BPDex, difference being that you were smart and didn't sleep with her.

Basically in my case I broke up with her, only to be recycled a few weeks later. I triggered her abandonment fears, how she went seeking a new attachment. After spending a whole weekend together, Monday morning she tells me she has a date that night. She said she set it up while we were broken up.

She could have told me on Friday night but she didn't.  Basically I believe that I was friend zoned and given the role of orbiter. Just like the exes and other "friends" that would text her while she was with me. There was one guy who she boasted wrote her a 20 page letter complaining about her behaviour after sticking around and at her disposal for 4 years.  I didn't want to be this guy. Throughout our relationship she would bring him up as being just a friend. She swore she was never intimate with him. If that was true, he would never have written a 20 page letter.


Getting back to your relationship, she's seeing other people, her roommate is likely to still be in the picture, and she wants you around to fill the conquest friend zone category.  You don't want that type of a relationship.  She will triangulate you with her new attachment or old ones for that matter.


You're choice here is either be second fiddle, or straight out tell her you need time for yourself.  Don't give her a time line. Just work on yourself and be the one to decide If you want to maintain contact with this person, or to cut ties and realize that you're better off without her. If you choose the latter, I would advise not to be confrentational. It will sting like heck, but it will be well worth it to keep your integrity intact, accepting she is who she is, and you do what's best for you.

[RealizationBPD]

Uncleowenrip,

Yeah I think you are in limbo land for her.  She misses some things about you, but isn't sure about the relationship.  Have you asked her why she was seeing other men.  Was there a need you weren't meeting? If so I'd work on that.  If it is just she wants to soil her oats, then sounds like you aren't down for that.  Nothing you described gives an indication she is BPD, but more like she is going through the typical 'trying to separate from someone a person cares about blues.'  She sounds unsure and is using you to fill the void while she is looking.  If that is not acceptable, you might want to try NC after addressing needs.  I'd start with 30 - 60 days.  Make sure to live your life.  :)ate other chicks if it happens to occur.  Let her see what it feels like to not have you for comfort.  Maybe this will spark some sense into her, maybe she will move on.  Either way NC is about protecting you and allowing you to move on and not allowing someone else to hurt you while you restore your life.    

[uncleowenrip]

Thank you all for the comments. I can't tell you how much it helps. I can relate a lot to some of those stories...

Have you asked her why she was seeing other men.  Was there a need you weren't meeting?

I did ask this. I asked what I did wrong, if there was a problem in the relationship. She said I didn't do anything, that I was "perfect". She said it was her. She was afraid that I was getting bored of her and would leave her (maybe projecting a bit). When she said she wanted to continue to sext other men while in our relationship, it wasn't so much that she "wanted" to do that, but she felt like she "needed" to do it, because she needed a place for "that" to go. She admitted it came from an insecure place, "It's the only way I know how to make friends". She said that by just sexting other men and keeping it online within boundaries we set, this was her way of trying to stay true to me. I agreed to give it a shot (we were 3 days into a week 1/2 long vacation at the time), long story short, it obviously bothered me too much so we broke it off.

My take is that she was yearning for independence. She's only 25 so it fits the age, that said, not all 25 year olds are off sexting random dudes on the internet behind their "perfect" boyfriend's backs. So I don't completely forgive her. I respected her needs, told her they conflict with mine, and we split.

Nothing you described gives an indication she is BPD, but more like she is going through the typical 'trying to separate from someone a person cares about blues.'

I agree that her behavior may not be strictly BPD in this sense. She has been diagnosed and I faced my share of emotional abuse, push/pull, manipulation, abandonment issues and self harm threats throughout the r/s, that said I was always understanding, yet firm about what was not ok. I tried to set boundaries. She got much much better over time and I could tell she was aware sometimes her actions were irrational or hurtful. I would tell her what wasn't OK, eventually she'd apologize immediately after an outburst. I could tell she was always trying to better herself and control some of those things for me. She said as much.

So it's possible this isn't BPD centric, but since she was diagnosed and has displayed these kinds of behaviors in recent history, I want to brace for them. Particularly when it comes to going NC as many here have tried to do, it seems, successfully.

You're choice here is either be second fiddle, or straight out tell her you need time for yourself.  Don't give her a time line. Just work on yourself and be the one to decide If you want to maintain contact with this person, or to cut ties and realize that you're better off without her. If you choose the latter, I would advise not to be confrentational.

Any advice on how to go about this? I'm trying to brace for the next thing really. I'm working now on some of the techniques on stopping rumination I read on the boards and I read the NC link above. I'm just curious what do I do...

If she texts me wanting to hang out, or better yet, has an argument with my replacement and comes to me for consolation, do I just ignore her? Do I tell her straight out that I don't want to see her anymore? If she invites me over to hang out with her and her roommate, do I just tell her I need more time? How do I avoid being confrontational?

What were some techniques that may have worked when they reached out to you for the first time after you made the decision to go NC?

[Rayban]

First and foremost, you have to think carefully and make a decision as to what you want going forward.  Then have a talk with her preferably in person.  Be honest to both yourself and her. Don't blame her, or bring up her disorder. Be calm about it, and whatever you decide stick with it. This will be extremely difficult to do, but you'll take pride in respecting the person behind the disorder.

[RealizationBPD]

It's kind of hard for me to answer your last question Unc, because every situation is different.  One thing I can share about my experience of when my wife ran off, is to establish goals and set boundaries. 

The first time my wife and I separated for about a year, we saw each other randomly off and on.  Looking back I let her walk all over me with no defined boundaries.  At one point I wrote her a letter telling her I was willing to work on any of her needs, but at the same time if she didn't come back home, get help for her drinking, work on the relationship, I was going to divorce her.  She came a running at first. She seemed to totally get on board, but 9 months later she was back at her flakiness and ultimately she packed up and moved out suddenly.  Looking back I should have marched to the courthouse to file divorce immediately, because at that point she crossed the boundary I set.  So then I attempted to plead and still work things out on what was now her terms and the boundaries got blurred, she took more advantage of me.  I think if I would have filed for divorce, she would have come back home knowing I was serious and forced to work on the issue or I would have been divorced and less heartbroken and having suffered less pain than I have today.

I know you aren't married, but you need to establish what things you are willing to tolerate or work on and what things are intolerable. I would suggest writing them down.  When/if she comes back to you, I would quickly establish the rules/bounderies, what you're not willing to tolerate. If she crosses the line, immediately walk.

[Cleanglass]

I think the main question you should ask yourself when it comes to no contact is 'do I trust them?'

Borderling, Narcissistic, codependent ... .whatever your personality disorder is, it always comes back to one thing at it's root:

Insecurity.

The problem is that insecurity makes us impulsive and desperate. We start to cling to the people we shouldn't, holding on to someone who isn't good for our own mental wellbeing and basically staying stuck in a confused state. Even when things appear to be going well, you'll feel like you're waiting for the next drama.

My advice is to not label as 'no contact'.

My advice is to look at practises such as mindfulness and start to clear your head so that you can make the decision for yourself as to whether you TRUST this person to be in your life. The fact of the matter is, this person may never change. Are you willing to gamble your own life on someone who may never change their ways?

[Skip]

"No contact" is dramatic.

An alternative is to just tell her you need space... .maybe even suggest a time frame and agree to contact her at the end (like six weeks). In sex weeks you can send her a brief note... .

This puts a "pin" in things and give you room to sort things out.

[Pretty Woman]

Hi there,
   No Contact is strictly for you and ultimately your decision. I know personally I could not handle my ex acting the same way towards me (as if we were in a relationship) but we aren't and she is sleeping with and being emotionally intimate with another.

I know that would hurt me more than not seeing her.

If you are struggling maybe it's a good idea to take some time for yourself and see what you want. There is absolutely nothing wrong in doing that, it's healthy actually. Focus on yourself for awhile and if you choose to re-connect let it be on your own terms.

I think it's very hard to be friends with a person who cheats. They possess a lack of boundaries and by allowing them to still have you in their life that also displays a lack of boundaries and almost says, Hey it's ok you cheated on me and betrayed our relationship. Lets still be friends.

Traditionally and you will read it on these boards, if they treated you with little respect while IN a relationship with you it's often worse once there is no commitment involved (i.e. friendship). You are still processing the end of the relationship and licking your wounds while they seemingly jump into a new one at the blink of an eye. Worse yet is when they confide in you regarding their new "love of their life" and accuse you of not just "getting over it already" when you are visibly upset over their white knighting of this person who used to be YOU.

No one can tell you what to do, but if you are even questioning it that tells me you have a gut feeling and my gut feeling have never steered me wrong.

Remember, nothing is permanent. There is no right or wrong answer. Just do what you feel is best for you and that my friend is the answer you seek.

PW
 

[RealizationBPD]

I think it's very hard to be friends with a person who cheats. They possess a lack of boundaries and by allowing them to still have you in their life that also displays a lack of boundaries and almost says, Hey it's ok you cheated on me and betrayed our relationship. Lets still be friends.

Very true!