One possibility is that you attract "crazy" but another is that you attract people and some of them are crazy because there's a mix in the general population. You may not be noticing the ones who are not crazy- because they don't cross boundaries.

Attraction is personality factors too. I have a friend who I would not describe as movie star attractive but he's likable and approachable. He didn't marry a disordered person but I wouldn't be surprised if he attracted both disordered and not disordered people because people like him in general.

As you said, it's a lot of non verbal communication. I think we can "sense" boundaries when interacting with others. I feel more comfortable interacting with some people than others even if I can't describe exactly why.

Yesterday was the last straw with my husband.

Once again, he talked about our beautiful home, ad nauseam, as if it’s a dark, dreary cave. Then, he started playing a video, while driving, while I was in the car, and he refused to stop. He  told me to take the subway next time.  He said he sometimes wants to sleep in the car, in a park, at night, because our apartment is so bad for him.  We live in a lovely, upscale co-op in a coveted neighborhood.  Our apartment is beautiful.  I think the problem is that I BOUGHT IT, years ago,  and he moved in  (from his tiny apartment in a bad neighborhood), twenty years ago, when we got married.  So he puts it down, constantly. But yesterday was the worst.

My biggest fear was living in poverty without his income.  Because I don’t think I’d ever be able to get alimony out of him.  He’s very sick. Very volatile. So I’m thinking I might throw him out. — he can find a room somewhere.  Hey — he claims he hates the apartment anyway. I can handle the bills he was covering for maybe 2 years. Then,  I’ll need to sell, and split the proceeds with him — his name is on the deed now too.  I’ll need to live low, but I won’t be bankrupt. 

I don’t know if my plan will work, but just coming up with SOMETHING, makes me feel better. 

Now, I’m NO LONGER AFRAID to get a hotel room for two nights, when he becomes unbearable.  I don’t care how mad he gets when I return, as long as he’s not violent.  I deserve some alone time.  He doesn't want me to have it and has protested whenever I’ve mentioned it.  He’s afraid to let go of me for even two nights. Well, he doesn’t own me. I’m 75 years old.  I can book a hotel room without him.  I finally have the courage to do it. 

This is the NEW ME. 

I feel better.  I’m less fearful. 

I know it needs some tweaking, butI hope my plan makes sense. 

I just wanted to update:

I have been trying really hard to follow through on strategies, and this morning I was devastated when my husband saw me coming out of the bathroom, and then started slamming things again at the sight of me. I spent the day in waves of overwhelming sadness.

But then, he messaged me to say that it wasn't my fault, that he is struggling with anxiety and stressed at work. I messaged back to say that I love and support him whatever, and if he is ready for help then I will help him get it.
He hasn't responded to that, and I know I need to still give him a lot of space to work this through as it won't help to send him spiralling again.

But, this is a huge, huge first in our marriage. He has never openly admitted to any mental health struggles before. It is not a quick solution, and just one step on a long road, but I cried tears of relief at just the possibility of improvement or acknowledgement. I know I need to tread lightly and lovingly.

But, thank you, being able to read and discuss here has helped me implement better strategies than previously, and I hope more to keep me going, as there will be plenty more hurdles.

Hi Komodo and thank you for posting
It is certainly a lonely journey with a loved bpd child. Sometimes I feel I am living in a strange, nightmare world - it is so unfathomable that someone in such pain would turn against the very person who has been/is there for them and just wanting to help in any way they can.

It sounds as though you have done everything possible at this point in time. Keep in mind that it is accepted that for many with bpd there is symptom relief in the fourth decade ie when they are in their 30s. My dd is there now and although she has managed to stop self medicating, the bpd symptoms are very obvious and hard to deal with.

Coming here is such a help to me. I remember when I first came I had been trying to get dd to try anything that would help and to be honest I came searching for suggestions. I read others' posts and suddenly realised that I had done all I could and I began to step back a bit in that realisation.

I learnt some skills here - not JADE - ing (Judge, Argue, Discuss, Explain) - and 'letting go' ( To let go means to love more, fear less).

I also learnt - and this was a hard one for me - that I needed boundaries to survive myself in the chaos that is BPD.

It is a long, exhausting and painful journey. I hope you find comfort coming here, knowing there are others out there going through the same thing as you are. I also hope that you can find blocks of time - however small - where you can focus on your own needs, and hopefully feel some energy once again. It has been a long haul.

Time out for you is the main thing I can suggest. Make that a priority, then hopefully some of the skills etc will keep you from going under.

Sending thoughts . .

These are all good guesses as to what is happening.  For me, it is a lot more than just words, it is non-verbals, such as body language - I usually can differentiate the difference.  Subconsciously, I am walking on eggshells, as it would upset my wife and has in the past, so that can be a component of me being triggered - there was something definitely off about her mentally in addition to her almost cartoonish physical attributes.


There was one other customer in the store, and she was not friendly with him - looked like a local person who had walked to the store (no other vehicles in the lot) - this was perhaps why I felt this way, as I was definitely being treated differently in a markedly much more friendly way.


As I was definitely treated differently than the other customer, it was her, as I usually don't feel uncomfortable with friendly women, except when I am singled out - and in this instance I was.

With respect to my wife's reaction, whenever a woman treats me nice, she does become protective, but makes sure she treats me nicer that the  woman that she perceives as a threat to her.



Agreed, after having been exposed to a lot in the past few years, my 'gut' feeling more often than not is quite accurate.  I have since learned how to use 'wise mind' to discern more accurately what I am encountering.

Tangled Mangled,

Thank you for sharing.


I think you are definitely on to something here as I had effectively isolated myself socially because of these false accusations - it is something I am working on with my own individual therapist on my own issues.



Thank you for your insight, I agree with it now that I can see it from a different perspective - this is much appreciated.



My wife has been triggered when this happens in a similar manner that you have described.  Thanks for sharing your observations that have been extremely valuable to me.

Take care.

SD

Chief Drizzt,

   You're welcome.  Going into each couple's session without directly referring to BPD was difficult for me too.  I too had to use different terminology that meant the same thing.  I also had to call attention to specific traits/symptoms by having my wife describe her specific behavior, and I would ask my wife in front of the therapist pointed questions where she would.  I personally felt it was very important for my wife to become self-aware of an issue, so she could address it.  Her becoming aware of being physically violent was the easiest one and only took a few sessions.  Her becoming aware of stress induced disassociation was the most difficult one, and this took the better part of a year.

For example the word 'triggering' was very 'triggering' to my wife, so my individual therapist would frequently come up with alternative wording where I often was at a loss on how to address a specific issue, for the benefit of the couple's therapist when I needed to get a point across - I had to talk in a manner where my wife would understand me on one level, and the couple's therapist would understand on a different level.  So 'triggering' was substituted for 'being emotionally activated' until that too was 'banned' as being too 'triggering'.

It was quite difficult, as I first had to learn about BPD (and OCPD) before I could call attention to it in a meaningful way without coming out and being "Captain Obvious" - since my wife's false narrative was believable, initially I was working an uphill battle with her therapists getting them onboard too, until they witnessed it first hand or it was described within the therapy sessions by my wife's own words.  At least initially, I felt so defeated, as the only one who would validate my feelings was my own individual therapist.

My own individual therapist pretty much summed up my behavior which resulted in this positive outcome, as she had no logical explanation other than I "willed it" [to happen].

Circling back to your specific situation - if I were in your shoes [and I am not] - I would keep on trying different things until you find one that 'works' or at least 'seems to work' until you find something better.  And the one that works, is not necessarily intuitive, I will share some of my pre-story that might be relevant for you...

Since your stated goal is to get her into therapy - for me, at the beginning of the process I used a 'switch and bait' type strategy back in 2022 and prior to that part dumb luck in 2019.  Prior to 2019 around 2009, I tried to get my wife into couples therapy when she first stopped love bombing me and had become much more abusive to the point of being physically violent - I put my foot down and demanded we do couple's therapy as something was 'seriously wrong with us' to be this way, my wife agreed initially.  All but one of the half dozen couple's therapists were fired by my wife, and the one that didn't, focused 90% of the time in each of the sessions on my wife, until she 'retired' a few months in, effectively firing my wife - looking back, I wish that therapist didn't [give up on] dump us, as she was making real progress, but probably recognized the dynamic only a few weeks in (about two months).  I tried a few more therapists; however, they were all fired by my wife, and I eventually 'gave up' - fast forward a decade, our daughter was in a critical mental health crisis, was hospitalized for months heading towards death by starvation, and it was my wife, upon the advice of our daughter's nutritionist serendipitous advice that drug me into couple's therapy that I fully embraced - it was my wife's idea, and I was the blame for everything bad that was happening back in 2019.

Shifting gears, I am going to reflect back to you, what you are doing to your own wife... with a role reversal, which I find personally to be exceptionally insightful in understanding my own wife'a thought processes... this took me years to really figure it out with my own wife...

Imagine if you were in your wife's shoes, and your husband [you] told you that you were having "extreme emotionalism" - how would that make you feel?  Especially if you didn't think you were all that emotional in the first place?  Would you embrace what your husband was telling you to seek help, or would you think he is being crazy for thinking that, since you don't think it is true and be dismissive about your feelings and opinions since you do not think they are true and deliberately drag your feet to go into a therapy session where you husband would blame you for everything?

How would that make you feel?  What would you want to express to your 'husband', so he would stop labeling you with "extreme emotionalism"?

I would guess that didn't work too well, and you [your wife] would be pushing back on the 'extreme emotionalism' narrative that your husband [you] was talking about.

Can you see that as a possible perspective for her?  Since you know your wife the 'best' - if you put yourself in your wife's shoes, and was in denial about the emotionalism - perhaps focus on a different topic, that is much less provocative initially, that your wife knows she has issues with that isn't quite as impactful as 'extreme emotionalism'.  Maybe call attention to a small, but very obvious component, in my case it was yelling at the top of her lungs - this too can be met with a lot of resistance, as my wife literally has told me, when I pointed that out she literally yelled at me "I'm not yelling!"!  Or, come up with a different tactic for her to become self aware, an indirect way initially by validating her feelings.

Or, you can focus on yourself, and what you bring to the table, and let your wife beat you up, at least initially.  Encourage the couple's therapist to focus on you for the first several sessions, and let those areas improve for your wife - kind of a bait and switch, to get her hooked on the positives of being in therapy - kind of like a loss leader.  Eventually gradually shift the focus on to her, if this is done too fast it can backfire, and fail.  Perhaps move very slowly and introduce concepts one at a time.  In my experience our couple's therapist wanted to move too fast, and do many things at once, and my wife lost interest.

For me, at that time, my goal was similar to your, and I was there to keep my wife in therapy, even if it was being negative towards me, she was getting 'something meaningful' out of it.  It took years to shift her blame from focusing on me to focusing on herself as being at first a small part of the problem, and then as a bigger part of the problem, until it resulted in a suicide attempt and being reported for DV until she figured out she was the problem a few months later - this took more than 2-1/2 years with our first serious couple's therapy from 2019.  Perhaps, me being too complacent, too nice, and too naive for my wife to gain the trust of the therapist before I started to push back on my wife's false narrative was a significant component into my wife's self-awareness journey and was needed as a prerequisite before she could become self aware by realizing I wasn't the whole problem.

I might suggest trying to find something about therapy that your wife would enjoy doing [like highlighting your perceived issues] - throw her a bone to chew on, the only therapist back in 2009 my wife enjoyed being with back then did exactly that - that therapist dinged me on a comparatively minor issue at 10% of the time so my wife felt validated being in therapy; however, the therapist using good communication techniques (that I was oblivious to) with my wife to keep her engaged on much more meaningful topics - we had not progressed to far before she 'retired'.

Perhaps, you could brainstorm, and come up with a few ideas yourself on how to attract your wife into therapy and not push her into therapy?  It has to be her idea for it to work, as only she can fix herself.  What do you think?

I’m not sure about this. I agree that learning how to read and understand people is crucial in choosing an appropriate romantic partner. But each of three seriously mentally ill women I fell for have had intrinsic values that were notably consistent with my own. They were each highly compassionate people. They were all notably kind women. And this played out in many of the choices each of them made. Integrity mattered to each of them. They each sought to be honest more than the average person.  Insofar as political views reflect ethical beliefs, there was notable consistently with my own political views.

With each of these three women, disordered thinking led, at times, to screwy beliefs and severely problematic behavior (including behavior that hurt others). But there’s not necessarily a fundamental dissonance of values. And everyone at times acts in ways that are inconsistent with their own values. The fact that my BPD ex is with an affair partner who is cheating on his wife is not only inconsistent with my values, but is also inconsistent with her own values (and this clearly bothers her). I’m not saying this to absolve her behaviors – but it’s not clear to me that a solely positive focus on having shared intrinsic values is sufficient for making appropriate choices in romantic partners.

Thought I’d comment on this comment, because elements of it are so on the mark.


In my case, I got together with my BPD ex not long after my ex-wife decided to end our marriage. I was extremely vulnerable at that point, and very down on myself. And I was willing to disregard all kinds of “significant personal issues”. My BPD ex was in a financially disastrous state (actually facing eviction), her apartment was a mess (dishes hadn’t been washed in many months, etc.), her son was in rebellion, and she spoke endlessly of having been victimized by others. But I totally fell for her.

Then my ex-wife begged me to come back. And I temporarily returned to her. I did that both out of a sense of duty to my ex-wife and also because my BPD ex’s constant litany of her resentments/victimization really bothered me. But then I left my ex-wife and returned to my BPD ex. None of what I did in that period showed good thinking or decent judgement.


BPDs really do undervalue themselves – that’s very true of my ex. But our relationship didn’t really have imbalance in her favor. I was younger, had my life more together, would likely have been considered better looking, etc. Though with the ending of my prior marriage, I considered myself much more at fault than my ex-wife (I would now say that my ex-wife and I contributed about equally to problems in that relationship). My getting together with someone with BPD when I did was definitely trading one problem for another.

The NPD guy who pursued and got my BPD partner (ending our relationship) did so at a nadir-point in her life. Her son had become addicted to meth, suicidal, and homeless. And in the midst of that, I was gone for a month caring for a dying relative (and people with BPD don’t do well with being alone – especially in the midst of such crisis). So she was extremely vulnerable when he moved in on her. And he was love-bombing/idealizing her, and that was extremely powerful. Other than the fact that he was married (and cheating on his wife), he was the more attractive and accomplished “partner”. She definitely saw that relationship as solving her problems, but it actually left her much worse off (her mental health is far worse now), and she traded me – basically a decent guy who really loved her – for a controlling philanderer who can’t genuinely love her and is keeping her as a secret mistress. 

In my case, I appear to go for all kinds of crazy. My ex-wife was bipolar and alcoholic, and also suffered from impacts of childhood trauma. My recent ex had pretty severe (definitely not high-functioning) BPD. And the other woman I fell most strongly for had Dissociative Identity Disorder. Other women I've felt milder infatuation with also have all had significant mental health issues.

For me, it’s clear that it goes back to my childhood. My mother had severe BPD. And she was alcoholic. There was a ton of violence and abuse, including some sexual abuse. I was very much a parentified child, and much of my childhood was spent taking care of my mom. And I developed a strong self-sacrifice schema, where I feel compelled to take care of other people’s needs before my own. I feel like I need to rescue women in distress. There’s definitely what psychologists refer to as “repetition compulsion”, where I’m driven to put myself in circumstances that repeat my childhood trauma. In the case of the woman with DID that turned out semi-OK. We didn’t get together as romantic partners (even though I was strongly attracted to her), and I found a therapist for her, and she put in a ton of work to heal, and is now entirely free of DID. Actually, she’s now my best friend (and it’s a healthy friendship and I have zero romantic attraction to her). But I know the odds of a semi-OK outcome when I go down this path are minimal. I know it’s extremely unhealthy and I’m trying to change these patterns via therapy. I’m finding Schema Therapy especially helpful - one thing it focuses on is why we keep repeatedly seeking out the same types of problematic romantic partners.

itsumi,

A non-reciprocal relationship is draining and tough, and with someone showing traits of BPD, tougher.

It's great that you reached out for support, but membership and participation on this board are for members 18 and up per guidelinesThis is to keep minors safe.

There are resources of the type you're seeking. Please check out www.teenhelp.org and Resources for BPD Sufferers.

I would also like to encourage you to talk to your school counselor or school social worker about your struggles right now.  Having a person to confide in can be very helpful.

Lastly, you can glean info from the Lessons at the top of this board  

I wish you well with your gf.  Validation is helpful and it's a skill those of us here much older are still learning and practicing. I wouldn't also ever suggest to her that she has BPD and be mindful to encourage her to get help as it might trigger BPD shame.

Best,

Turkish