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Author Topic: The ‘Were not Friends’ Game  (Read 777 times)
Archery

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Who in your life has "personality" issues: Romantic partner
Relationship status: Married
Posts: 15


« on: April 10, 2024, 06:38:46 AM »

Hey it’s me again,

Yesterday was a bit of a breaking point. After a week where I was honest and expressing my boundaries, my wife came to me and said ‘ we’re not friends’ , it was a child like expression of the state of our relationship. I asked her what she meant and she expressed that I was ‘ not communicating with her like friends, we have not been  friends’  I expressed that when she uses terms like that I feel like our relationship is conditional, I asked if she thought it was possible to disagree or to even express being upset  and remain friends….she didn’t like this and accused me of being picky and making things worse. ‘Fine!’ She said ‘ we don’t talk for another two weeks then!”… this was strange for me, she was describing the very thing I found so hard about this type of engagement. The fact that I would be left to fix the problem whilst she waited, often ignoring me.  What I suspect she was angry at the fact that I was refusing to play the ‘ we’re not friends, now you make it up to me’ game. In the past this has often meant me apologising and  denying my own sense of reality to stop the aching silence and distance from her. As I went upstairs she had chosen to sleep in another room. I’m tired, hurt and relieved at the same time.
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kells76
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« Reply #1 on: April 10, 2024, 11:37:51 AM »

I suspect she felt that you both weren't friends in the moment.

She may struggle to understand that a feeling in a moment doesn't define the entire past of your relationship and won't define the entire future of your relationship.

I've read some other members here describing that phenomenon as a kind of forward and reverse extrapolation:

if for a moment today I feel like you don't love me, then "you've never loved me", "we were never good together", "I've never felt love from you", "I don't think you will be capable of loving me", "we have no future without your love", etc.

if for a moment today I feel like you love me, then "we've always been twin flames", "you've been my soul mate since day one", "we'll always be entwined", "I can't wait to grow old with you", etc.

My hunch is that engaging with a statement like that "as if" she is using commonly understood terms to express a rational thought, might not effective for improving the relationship.

I'm not saying "don't take her at her word". One perspective on that exchange is that regardless of what she meant, the truth is that the words a person chooses can impact hearers in a certain way, intended or not. So, even if she was "just" expressing a feeling, not a rational thought, the truth is that those words might hurt you. At that point, it's your decision if you choose to stay in a relationship with someone who uses hurtful words, regardless of the intent.

I think what I am getting at is that to stay in this relationship, it may help to try to approach those statements first from the standpoint of finding out the feelings behind her words... then allowing her to have her feelings (knowing that if BPD is involved, these may not be "permanent, this is how I'll always feel" feelings).

It is definitely an improvement that you are no longer just apologizing for everything and saying "yes dear, you are totally right that we were never friends, and I am totally wrong".

You don't necessarily have to swing all the way over to "let me explain to you that it makes our relationship feel conditional". Explaining can be inadvertently invalidating.

A middle option for that moment is curiosity and true emotional validation:

her: we're not friends

you (this was good, by the way): what do you mean?

her: you're not communicating with me like friends, we have not been friends

you (new approach): wow, that would feel painful, to feel like we're not friends

...

if her feelings aren't getting heard (regardless of whether the reasons for her feelings are rational), then she may escalate behaviors/words in a low-skilled, counterproductive attempt to be really listened to. I'm thinking that may have been going on when she moved to accusations, blame, and ultimatums.

...

The fact that I would be left to fix the problem whilst she waited, often ignoring me.

What is the problem that it seems like you are left to fix?
« Last Edit: April 10, 2024, 11:38:54 AM by kells76 » Logged
Archery

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« Reply #2 on: April 10, 2024, 05:30:43 PM »

Your message is a breath of fresh air… and I mean every word of it.


 I appreciate the encouragement and the challenge you've presented. I feel truly heard and gently urged to approach this situation in a way that would benefit both me and my partner. In hindsight, it seems like an approach I should have adopted from the start  Smiling (click to insert in post)

If I'm honest, I recognize that I lost sight of her unique and distorted perspective. Understanding this would have helped me stay calm and not take her words too personally. It's clear to me now that this is her way of calling for help.

While this doesn't justify her tactics or choice of words, it does remind me to uphold my boundaries without resorting to hostility like my partner with BPD. Empathy is crucial, but I often worry that showing empathy will pull me into her reality and out of my own. I'm curious about how you've managed to balance empathy and boundaries in your own experiences. <<<Do you have any tips?>>>

It's clear to me that she's reacting to feelings of being unseen. Her all-or-nothing statements, ironically, made me feel like our relationship was all or nothing. There's something contagious about someone who one moment treats you like you're everything and the next acts like you're nothing. I can see how I've started to adopt some of these traits as a result of my experiences with her.

Maintaining my grip on reality is about more than just holding onto my feelings. It's about holding onto the knowledge I have, which exists independently of my emotional reflexes.
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Pook075
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« Reply #3 on: April 11, 2024, 11:28:56 AM »

It's clear to me that she's reacting to feelings of being unseen. Her all-or-nothing statements, ironically, made me feel like our relationship was all or nothing.

As Kells explained, the all or nothing type of thinking is a hallmark of BPD and one of the most difficult aspects to deal with.  I caught a YouTube video a few years back from a therapist teaching BPD, and she told her patients whenever they made an always/never statement to stop and try to think of a single instance where that wasn't true.

For instance, my ex wife said that I always hated her parents.  So I finally asked her if she could think of one time I showed her parents love.  And she said of course, you took them on several vacations, bought them things, etc.

If I would have been defensive about it; "that's a lie- I brought your parents on dozens of vacations, I bought them stuff, etc." then it would have only made things worse.  But because I asked the right question and allowed her to say those things, I have not heard "you always hated my parents" since we had that conversation.

Why?  Because she caught herself and realized that her always/never statement was false.  She realized that she didn't even believe that, she was just saying it for whatever reason (mental illness) and accepting it as true.  And if she were thinking that, what other things were false?  So several of the always/never situations disappeared off me saying that one sentence and allowing her to find the answer at her own pace.

I hope that helps!
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kells76
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« Reply #4 on: April 11, 2024, 11:29:24 AM »

If I'm honest, I recognize that I lost sight of her unique and distorted perspective. Understanding this would have helped me stay calm and not take her words too personally. It's clear to me now that this is her way of calling for help.

Makes sense. If you're here because you suspect BPD, that's a serious and impairing mental illness. It's not to say "treat every word coming out of her mouth like crazy talk". It's not helpful to assume that when she says "Want me to get cheese at the store" that you have to stop and think "I can't treat that like a normal statement; instead, I have to ask her how she feels about cheese". It's more to say that a challenge of loving pwBPD is kind of like learning a second language, one where many of the words match your first language but many don't. You can't jump to "she never means what she says" but you also can't jump to "she is communicating just like I would". Slowing down and wisely considering the situation may be helpful. I think that over time, it is possible to build your own awareness/radar of types of statements that are emotionally loaded.

While this doesn't justify her tactics or choice of words, it does remind me to uphold my boundaries without resorting to hostility like my partner with BPD. Empathy is crucial, but I often worry that showing empathy will pull me into her reality and out of my own. I'm curious about how you've managed to balance empathy and boundaries in your own experiences. <<<Do you have any tips?>>>

That's a good insight to have about boundaries. I'm starting to think that boundaries are less about "how can I make sure that s/he respects my boundaries and doesn't break my boundaries", and more about "how can I respect my own boundaries?"

If it's a true boundary, then it's 100% under your control, and you're the only one who can fundamentally disrespect/break your own boundary.

I had an experience of navigating that "if I empathize does that mean I'm agreeing/in that reality" situation a few months ago. My H's youngest invited a friend over, and this friend was telling us about how much she had been bullied at school and how bad it was and how she had to switch to homeschooling. While this may sound harsh, there was enough context for me to conclude that probably it wasn't as dramatic as she was making it sound, and she was likely exaggerating what had happened.

That was not going to be a great time for me to say "You know... was it really that bad? Don't you think that your lack of coping skills may have contributed?"  Frustrated/Unfortunate (click to insert in post)

I also was not willing to say "Oh my gosh, that's horrible what they did to you".

What I was able to say was "Wow, nobody wants to be bullied at school." I had to pause a second or two to find a wise response, but ultimately it was something I could say with integrity, that also validated her feelings (not her facts or relating of her perspective). Whatever it was that happened or didn't happen, she was using the word "bullying" to describe it, and I could genuinely say that nobody wants to experience that -- that's where we could share some middle ground. What's interesting is that true validation like that allowed me to keep my own integrity (I didn't have to agree with her about the facts of what happened) and allowed me to "allow" her to have her own experience and feelings. I didn't feel sucked in; I was able to stay in my world while allowing her to have her own world.

My thought is that by definition, unless we're grounded in reality and have a strong sense of self, we can't validate genuinely or effectively. We have to know who we are (and aren't) and what we're responsible for, to have the strength and calm to allow others to be and think and feel differently.

Not sure if you've had a chance to look at our validation workshops yet -- this one is on common tips & traps of validation. Take a look and let us know what resonates with you.


It's clear to me that she's reacting to feelings of being unseen. Her all-or-nothing statements, ironically, made me feel like our relationship was all or nothing. There's something contagious about someone who one moment treats you like you're everything and the next acts like you're nothing. I can see how I've started to adopt some of these traits as a result of my experiences with her.

I read here recently one member saying she'd learned from her therapist (who was trained in DBT) that if pwBPD have had an experience where they didn't feel understood (or seen, perhaps), that no matter how long ago it happened, they may keep bringing it up, repeatedly, in an effort (maybe unconscious) to get that understanding and to be seen. Truly validating those feelings at the time, really working to understand her, may help your relationship, as pwBPD tend to have higher needs for validation.

Working on your own sense of self may also help the "contagion". Many pwBPD can be really emotionally convincing. It can take emotional maturity not to have an extreme response (either of succumbing to the emotions: "I guess you were right and I was wrong", or of "logical reactivity": "I don't have to feel that way and I can prove it"). Sometimes developing mindfulness, where we balance and acknowledge both our thoughts/rationality and our feelings/emotions, can help. In DBT I believe it's termed Wise Mind.

Maintaining my grip on reality is about more than just holding onto my feelings. It's about holding onto the knowledge I have, which exists independently of my emotional reflexes.

It's a lot to balance. It's really hearing her emotions, feelings, and experiences, and understanding why she might feel that way even if you don't agree that it's justified... and it's doing that without holding her in contempt for being different. After all, this relationship isn't something being done to you, it's something you're actively choosing. It's also balancing your grounding in reality with hearing your own feelings and emotions. There's a real flow there. Rigidity and judgment typically don't help BPD relationships, yet neither does losing yourself in her world and letting her take the emotional lead. Lots and lots of wise balance.
« Last Edit: April 11, 2024, 11:30:17 AM by kells76 » Logged
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