It's killing me...

[VIDEO: "What is parental alienation?"]

Thinking about all the good times my ex and I had together is just breaking me...and in our case, the good outweighed the bad. I just couldn't take the constant push/pull breaking up cycle anymore, followed by love bombing and promises of marriage only for him to end the relationship again days after planning our future together. I still can't wrap by head around how someone can absolutely adore you and want to spend the rest of their life with you, and the next minute be so cold and indifferent and not want to be with you. I know it's the BPD, but my brain doesn't work like that so I don't think I'll ever fully understand . Did they ever really love us? Is it true that the more "feelings" they have for you, the worse the push/pull cycle is? I've read that they can keep people around consistently for years that they don't really have strong feelings towards, but it's always the people they "love" the most that they do the push/pull with.

[marv1995]

Thinking about all the good times my ex and I had together is just breaking me...and in our case, the good outweighed the bad. I just couldn't take the constant push/pull breaking up cycle anymore, followed by love bombing and promises of marriage only for him to end the relationship again days after planning our future together. I still can't wrap by head around how someone can absolutely adore you and want to spend the rest of their life with you, and the next minute be so cold and indifferent and not want to be with you. I know it's the BPD, but my brain doesn't work like that so I don't think I'll ever fully understand . Did they ever really love us? Is it true that the more "feelings" they have for you, the worse the push/pull cycle is? I've read that they can keep people around consistently for years that they don't really have strong feelings towards, but it's always the people they "love" the most that they do the push/pull with.

[Sappho11]

It's possible. My ex was together with his girlfriend before me for eight years. He claimed she basically threw herself at him and he never really loved her. From what I gather, she truly was a "league" below him. Nonetheless, they seemed to have a stable relationship for those many years.

When he was together with me, he couldn't stop emphasising how much he admired me, that he couldn't believe he had landed me, that I was his dream woman etc. The push-pull cycles were tremendous almost right from the start. We'd known one another for two years professionally, then embarked on a romantic relationship which lasted only four months before he broke up with me. He returned two weeks later, I took him back, and we made it through another four months, this time rather hellish ones. But it was all so subtle that it didn't occur to me just how bad it all was until he finally discarded me again three months ago.

You say that the good outweighed the bad. I used to think that way, too, until I opened a text editor on my computer and began writing down every single instance in which my ex had hurt me, disrespected me, violated my boundaries, snapped at me, taken me for granted, treated me poorly, etc. Until that moment, I had thought he, too, was the love of my life. But looking at that single-spaced, 11-page document of emotional abuse, gaslighting and egomania, I realised that the love of my life would never have treated me that way.

It takes a while to see both sides.

IMO the question is not so much, Did they ever truly love us? But rather, Did the person we loved truly exist?

[Cromwell]

I still can't wrap by head around how someone can absolutely adore you and want to spend the rest of their life with you, and the next minute be so cold and indifferent and not want to be with you. I know it's the BPD, but my brain doesn't work like that so I don't think I'll ever fully understand . Did they ever really love us?

My answer to you is the same answer I found to these questions from my own experience. I don't know. And that's fine. It is the answer. It took a bit of mind alteration to accept it. The result is, it unhooks the torment of thinking, that quest which in hindsight kept the interest flame going, splutters away.

Did she love me or not? The question lacks for me relevance the more distance I had and keeping no contact.

I was a bit let down that no one else could conclusive answer for me, but had to accept that also. Others mostly did not know or could only speculate. Speculation is not certainty. Radical acceptance, some things are unknown. There comes a point where the opportunity cost didn't justify it. Time spent wondering these things is energy diverted from the current moment. Maybe she did, maybe she didn't, maybe she did but in her own way, or not at all. Either of these and the unknown alternatives, they mattered once, they eventually ceased to.

Feels a lot better these days without that burden, it is actually quite scary to think just how much mental energy it uses up.

Watch out for the fools errand. It caught me. At the same time, the questions had significance, in grieving, my advice to my former self would have been "Cromwell that's OK to be curious just make sure don't dwell too much on it"

I find the learning from it extends to other things non relationship. If I read something depressing I'm good at putting it down and going out for a walk to not get further immersed. Break the focus and return to it later more fresh minded.

The relationship is over, there is by definition, nothing to either love, hate,caretake or anything. It's all over, freedom is getting a grip {or is it releasing the grip?} on the memories of a person lost in the sands of the past.

[Lucky Jim]

Hello again, marv1995,

Take a look at this quote from TRB, which you might find helpful:

The feelings of longing were more frequent in the beginning and now, a year later, they almost never happen.  Also, when they do happen, and I step back, I am generally able to see them as reminders of the fact that:
we did have good times that I can remember fondly; and
all of the reasons and feelings I have for leaving and going no contact are still valid.

LuckyJim

[ILMBPDC]

I still can't wrap by head around how someone can absolutely adore you and want to spend the rest of their life with you, and the next minute be so cold and indifferent and not want to be with you. I know it's the BPD, but my brain doesn't work like that so I don't think I'll ever fully understand . Did they ever really love us?

I read something on this forum where someone pointed out that yes, the feelings were real for them AT THE TIME OF THE FEELING. Of course, 5 minutes later they could have changed. 

No, we can't fathom how that works, it makes literally no sense to us, but their brains work differently. I am learning to let go of the fact that I will never understand and have come to realize that it is his issue, not mine. My feelings were real for a period of time. His feelings were real at a point in time. There was overlap on occasion, and those were the good times.

There are a lot of things I don't understand in this world and I don't beat myself up over not understanding them.  For me, its just a matter of letting my grief and sense of loss work itself through and not trying to understand the "why"s of it... because there is no explanation that us nons can understand.

[marv1995]

You are so right, ILM. I don't think we are meant to understand. I search for any answers to make the pain better and go away but I realized the other day I can't make it better until I feel it and push through it. I literally just have to muscle through. I do believe at some moments in time he felt love for me to the best of his ability. But it wasn't a healthy, adult-like love nor was it sustainable. I'm only a few weeks out, so the pain is still raw.

[ILMBPDC]

I do believe at some moments in time he felt love for me to the best of his ability. But it wasn't a healthy, adult-like love nor was it sustainable.

Yes exactly. I feel sorry for him - actually anyone with this disorder.  I can't imagine not having the capacity for long, deep, sustainable relationships. It must be awful. I'm sorry we are all going through this, it is truly horrible to be at the receiving end but you know what - WE will eventually have a good relationship and they NEVER will. Sad.

I'm only a few weeks out, so the pain is still raw

Me too, 16 days to be exact. Today I feel wise and strong though I know the wave will be back and I'll be hurt and depressed again. Eventually those waves will be shallower and have more distance between them and ultimately they will just be back to calm water. As long as I don't give in and have contact!

[Goosey]

“BPD, but my brain doesn't work like that so I don't think I'll ever fully understand.  Did they ever really love us?”
     That’s the  same question they demand a response to a million times.
  And never hear our response.
  Up is down left is right.
We never do the work etc.
   Shouldn’t be posting anymore. But that’s the last demand  she asked me to answer. “When did I stop loving her”.
Ugh.
Still do.
Just not as frantically while thinking I was trying to save her or rescue her….
  There is absolutely no rationality to BPD.
Be sad, be miserable, be blessed when you are discarded.
   

[marv1995]

“BPD, but my brain doesn't work like that so I don't think I'll ever fully understand.  Did they ever really love us?”
     That’s the  same question they demand a response to a million times.
  And never hear our response.
  Up is down left is right.
We never do the work etc.
   Shouldn’t be posting anymore. But that’s the last demand  she asked me to answer. “When did I stop loving her”.
Ugh.
Still do.
Just not as frantically while thinking I was trying to save her or rescue her….
  There is absolutely no rationality to BPD.
Be sad, be miserable, be blessed when you are discarded.
   

So true. I can't tell you how many times my expwBPD asked if I loved him and why I loved him. I could tell him a million times that I did and give him reasons but it never stopped him from asking.

[once removed]

I still can't wrap by head around how someone can absolutely adore you and want to spend the rest of their life with you, and the next minute be so cold and indifferent and not want to be with you. I know it's the BPD, but my brain doesn't work like that so I don't think I'll ever fully understand Laugh out loud (click to insert in post). Did they ever really love us?

i often use this analogy: ive probably told every girlfriend ive ever had, some version of "youre the most beautiful girl in the world". it was a sincere reflection of my feelings at the time. it was also an overstatement. it is not something i still feel toward any of them. similarly, i have had past girlfriends tell me that i was the best boyfriend in the world. was it true? if so, why did they break up with me?

we all do this on some level. we express our feelings in fantastical terms. it feels good, both to say, and to hear, and it bonds us to our partners. its a reflection of how we feel at the time, even if its overstated.

the difference with BPD is that its more extreme. people with bpd traits are impulsive, they overstate their feelings more frequently and to even greater degrees. everything is the best or the worst. love or hate. hot or cold. but like anyone else, its a reflection of how they feel at the time, even if its overstated.

the hard part for us, is that we invested a great deal in those statements, and they hurt a lot to lose. also, the extreme swings between the two can be confusing, and hurtful.

that was one of the hardest parts for me to get around. when my relationship ended, so did the promises, the amazing times, the loving things that we said and did together. i wasnt ready for that. it was hard for me to let them go. eventually, just like my ex, my feelings changed.

[marv1995]

Hi once removed,

Yes, I think that's the hardest part for me. Often those feelings gradually fade over time in someone w/o BPD and you normally start having issues beforehand. With my ex (and I'm sure like a lot of other people's exs on this board), he wanted to marry me and then quite literally two days later he didn't want to be with me anymore. I wanted to marry him also, and still would if he was actively seeking help. I'm sure those feelings will fade for me as well, it just takes a lot longer for nons I guess because why wouldn't it? We were in love

[Sappho11]

Hi once removed,

Yes, I think that's the hardest part for me. Often those feelings gradually fade over time in someone w/o BPD and you normally start having issues beforehand. With my ex (and I'm sure like a lot of other people's exs on this board), he wanted to marry me and then quite literally two days later he didn't want to be with me anymore. I wanted to marry him also, and still would if he was actively seeking help. I'm sure those feelings will fade for me as well, it just takes a lot longer for nons I guess because why wouldn't it? We were in love

Same thing happened here, we spoke of marriage and having children within the next 2-3 years one Monday, on Wednesday everything was in shambles, and on Friday he broke up with me (for the first time).

I'm fourteen weeks out now (he discarded me the second time at the beginning of May) and I feel so much better now than I ever did with him.

You'll get there. The path might occasionally suck, but you'll get there.  

[marv1995]

Hey Sappho! Isn't it just so hard to wrap your head around? I was talking to my therapist today who not only specializes in treating NPD and BPD and also does research on PDs, but has also dated someone with BPD and someone with NPD herself. She said that you can learn all you can about BPD but it will never make complete sense to us.

One thing that's helped me start to move on is talking to a professional that understands it. She told me pwBPD often (not always) cheat, and that's a big NO for me. I don't know if my ex ever did for sure, but I suspected. It's still hard to let go of the future we had planned and I so badly want to break NC, but I'm staying strong.

[Sappho11]

Hey Sappho! Isn't it just so hard to wrap your head around? I was talking to my therapist today who not only specializes in treating NPD and BPD and also does research on PDs, but has also dated someone with BPD and someone with NPD herself. She said that you can learn all you can about BPD but it will never make complete sense to us.

One thing that's helped me start to move on is talking to a professional that understands it. She told me pwBPD often (not always) cheat, and that's a big NO for me. I don't know if my ex ever did for sure, but I suspected. It's still hard to let go of the future we had planned and I so badly want to break NC, but I'm staying strong.

Well done! You've got this  Yes, counselling helps a lot. And I think it's really great that you're recognising your boundaries, such as not tolerating cheating. These relationships can really undermine our core beliefs and it's a good sign that you've held on to yours.

Letting go of the future we envisioned is difficult. But letting go of the realistic (!) future you would have had might be a lot easier. Soon-ish after the breakup I wrote out two different putative timelines of my life: One if my life had continued with my ex with all the same abuse, and another in which I would never, ever take him back again. The first was gloomy and filled with sorrow, while the second was so much more joyful and fulfilling. It was a sobering exercise and helped greatly in letting go and moving on.

[Emily1965]

I have just finished an amazing book which has helped enormously. My ExpwBPD broke up with me 4 weeks ago out of the blue after 2 weeks of push/pull love bombing promises etc etc He had told me that he was an alcoholic a few weeks after we started seeing each other but it is only since we split that I have realised that he had BPD. He ticked every box! The book was called 'Stop caretaking your Borderline or Narcissist' by Margolis Fjelstad . It is amazing and has helped me so much to understand what I have just been through! I am still having off days when I feel empty and having gone NC I still desperately want contact! Even though I know it is the worst thing that could happen to me. Last week he dropped some fruit at the charity I work at as 'left over after a day's filming on location nearby'. It was so obviously him that had done it but I still managed NC and am really proud of myself for that!

Good luck everyone and stay strong. I have no doubt in my mind that life would have got worse and worse if we had stayed together but I do know how attached we get to these people and how hard it is to move on. x