I feel like such a failure

[thankful person]

I do feel like I’ve let myself down. I don’t know what to do and I’m feeling like I’m wasting everyone’s time on here with it recently being suggested the bettering board isn’t right for me.

I thought things were getting better in this marriage and my wife was making TikTok videos about our love story. Then we made love and spoke of how great it was. And now a couple of days later she’s just feeling used because I didn’t “make an effort” since then.. again.. I’m sick of hearing this. I’ve been advised on here not to ask what she wants from me because it doesn’t get me anywhere but it’s very hard.

I don’t think this marriage will survive if I go to therapy, as she has forbidden me to go alone and she won’t come with me. It barely survived me recently suggesting my mother spend a few hours with our kids. I want things to work out not just for the kids but because my wife and I have learnt to get along and I feel we’re close and really good friends that love each other and what more would you want in a marriage but she doesn’t feel this way.

If we were to separate there would be massive financial implications. Along with the custody problems. W believes she should have our 3 small children weekdays and at least every other weekend. (Currently I work to support the family and she looks after the kids). She also believes I would come visit them all whenever I want and has also said she’d want me with them for holidays and events etc.

I know I could fight any of this legally, however fighting dbpdw in any way is not something I’d undertake lightly due to the effect it would have on our relationship, which would be catastrophic even if the marriage was over, and would greatly affect the kids.
At the moment there hasn’t been much shouting for a long time and the kids seem very happy and unaware of the problems between us. It has made me so happy becoming a mother and this is certainly something my wife is jealous of. I don’t know what to do for the best.

I thank you all as always for your time. I’m sorry if it feels like I’m not listening. If any of you feel like that then you know how my wife feels. I’m still reading Codependent no more and actually in floods of tears to realise how many people struggle like us.

I genuinely don’t get how anyone could say I’m an inspiration or helped anyone, but thank you to anyone who thinks that because those words really help me get through the day.
Hugs to anyone who needs it.

[Notwendy]

You are NOT a failure and nobody thinks you are. You are dealing with a very difficult situation. It's not up to you to do all the work of making your marriage into the marriage you wish it could be. There are two of you in this marriage. You can do your part but your wife still has free will and makes her own choices. Understandably- you want her to feel a certain way-- but we can't control someone else's feelings- so not being able to do that means you are human- not a failure.

Nobody on any boards- bettering, conflicted, or ending it and getting over it is a failure- these are difficult decisions and however someone decides, even if it's for the better, it's a challenge.

I think one issue is your wife "forbidding" therapy. That makes no sense. If you had strep throat, and she "forbade" you to go get medicine for it, would you agree? I hope not because it's your body and she has no right to control your access to health care. Mental health is also health care. It's your body, your mind, not hers but you have to be able to believe this and not be so afraid of her reaction in order to stand up for that.

[thankful person]

If you had strep throat, and she "forbade" you to go get medicine for it, would you agree? I hope not because it's your body and she has no right to control your access to health care. Mental health is also health care. It's your body, your mind, not hers but you have to be able to believe this and not be so afraid of her reaction in order to stand up for that.

Thank you not Wendy for your supportive words. It’s interesting to note that my wife has actually said she doesn’t want me going to therapy because she is convinced the therapist will tell me to leave her! It actually makes no sense because w is telling me to leave her anyway (most of the time) so you’d think she’d be pleased for someone to help me with this decision. I wonder if there is a way I can use this when discussing it with her. It would be near impossible to arrange anything behind my wife’s back, though I know some members do that and I fully get why. Do you think it’s better to tell her though? If not I’d have to be deceitful saying I had work, otherwise w would be convinced I’m having an affair. Even lying about work would be hard to pull off.
I also wanted to share, one time I went on a snowboarding holiday with my ex boyfriend. I had bronchitis at the time and had been prescribed antibiotics. It was several days into the holiday, constantly coughing and struggling to breathe doing physical activity at high altitude, before I went and got the meds. Why? Because my boyfriend didn’t like the fact that we couldn’t have “unprotected” sex and would need to use a condom because the meds might interfere with my birth control meds and he did NOT want to risk pregnancy. Thank you for reminding me of this because it’s still helpful for me to realise what am unhealthy relationship I left for this one. I like to think that I wouldn’t deny myself physical health care these days.

[ForeverDad]

And now a couple of days later she’s just feeling used because I didn’t “make an effort” since then.. again.. I’m sick of hearing this.

I recall in my marriage's last months my ex made intimacy into an unhealthy tease and sabotage maze.

It hurt back then, but my ex too used sexx as a four-letter weapon, leading me on with "Tonight... ." but somehow during the day either she got mad at me or she did something that just turned me off.  So intimacy became very rare.  Toward the end she made it all about the conflict.  I recall one rage where she vented, "I feel like a prostitute, I should get paid!"  I remember thinking to myself, "Then you sure won't earn much."

Along with the custody problems. W believes she should have our 3 small children weekdays and at least every other weekend. (Currently I work to support the family and she looks after the kids). She also believes I would come visit them all whenever I want and has also said she’d want me with them for holidays and events etc.

If you divorce then you each would have separate adult lives and you each would have your own parenting times.  None of this "come on over whenever" since she would make sure it never happened very often.

My custody evaluator recommended equal time as a first attempt, then that I would get custody if it failed.  A practical equal time schedule is 2-2-3 (or 2-2-5-5 stated as a two week schedule).  If need be, you can use a daycare or sitter for times you aren't there personally.  A theme to remember is "Sure, your time is your time but my time is my time."  I made sure that school, afterschool and daycare were declared part of My Time.

[Turkish]

Forbidding you from going to therapy is controlling and a sign of passive DV, isolating you from help. Do what you need to do and don't tell her. It's none of her business. You need to deal with the present and don't let her get into your head about possible co-parenting later. Deal with that later.

[ForeverDad]

Forbidding you from going to therapy is controlling and a sign of passive DV, isolating you from help. Do what you need to do and don't tell her. It's none of her business...

"She has forbidden me to go alone."  Also, your counseling is yours and yours alone.  You are an adult and she shouldn't (and legally can't) set terms where you can't go without her.

I've been there, done that.  In the months before my separation and divorce I scheduled marital counseling for myself and my then-spouse.  (Sadly, for years now I've preferred to describe her in those final years as my spouse, she was no longer a wife.)  Back to the story, she came with me but stated she refused joint counseling but would attend sessions to "support" me.  The office manager said no way, if it was to be my personal counseling then she would have to sit outside in the lobby!

[ortac77]

Hi

You are not a 'failure', I will say that nobody on these boards is a failure. Quite the opposite, we are all dealing with a person who has a severe mental illness, I think it is an understatement to describe that as a challenge. You are a human being with your own feelings and needs, sadly it seems that many relationships with a pwBPD are like one way streets. To extend the analogy whilst we want to follow the direction the pwBPD keeps trying to drive the wrong way and collisions inevitably follow.

Therapy is for you, it is quite frankly nobody else's business and is not deceit to arrange and attend it without telling your partner - your physical and mental health is yours and nobody has any right to dictate who you tell and how you decide to deal with it.

Here, we all are or have had to deal with very difficult and emotionally draining scenarios, scenarios that a majority of people outside find very difficult to understand.

You are not a failure

Ortac

[SinisterComplex]

I do feel like I’ve let myself down. I don’t know what to do and I’m feeling like I’m wasting everyone’s time on here with it recently being suggested the bettering board isn’t right for me.

I thought things were getting better in this marriage and my wife was making TikTok videos about our love story. Then we made love and spoke of how great it was. And now a couple of days later she’s just feeling used because I didn’t “make an effort” since then.. again.. I’m sick of hearing this. I’ve been advised on here not to ask what she wants from me because it doesn’t get me anywhere but it’s very hard.

I don’t think this marriage will survive if I go to therapy, as she has forbidden me to go alone and she won’t come with me. It barely survived me recently suggesting my mother spend a few hours with our kids. I want things to work out not just for the kids but because my wife and I have learnt to get along and I feel we’re close and really good friends that love each other and what more would you want in a marriage but she doesn’t feel this way.

If we were to separate there would be massive financial implications. Along with the custody problems. W believes she should have our 3 small children weekdays and at least every other weekend. (Currently I work to support the family and she looks after the kids). She also believes I would come visit them all whenever I want and has also said she’d want me with them for holidays and events etc.

I know I could fight any of this legally, however fighting dbpdw in any way is not something I’d undertake lightly due to the effect it would have on our relationship, which would be catastrophic even if the marriage was over, and would greatly affect the kids.
At the moment there hasn’t been much shouting for a long time and the kids seem very happy and unaware of the problems between us. It has made me so happy becoming a mother and this is certainly something my wife is jealous of. I don’t know what to do for the best.

I thank you all as always for your time. I’m sorry if it feels like I’m not listening. If any of you feel like that then you know how my wife feels. I’m still reading Codependent no more and actually in floods of tears to realise how many people struggle like us.

I genuinely don’t get how anyone could say I’m an inspiration or helped anyone, but thank you to anyone who thinks that because those words really help me get through the day.
Hugs to anyone who needs it.

First, having the balls, fortitude, or whatever phrase you want to use and sharing your story here is an inspiration. See you are only thinking about the current members and your experience which honestly is totally okay and expected. However, this place is about the community at large...including those lurkers who are too afraid to join and to post anything. Your story may resonate with one of those people and then inspire them to join and help themselves in the process too. Here, always think big picture. We are fam. Now hold your head up. You have nothing to be sorry about. Be kind to you. We have your back here, but you still have to take care of yourself.

"I don’t think this marriage will survive if I go to therapy, as she has forbidden me to go alone and she won’t come with me. It barely survived me recently suggesting my mother spend a few hours with our kids. I want things to work out not just for the kids but because my wife and I have learnt to get along and I feel we’re close and really good friends that love each other and what more would you want in a marriage but she doesn’t feel this way." -

Okay so I do have to respond to this part here...you are an adult and you have dominion over yourself. You are not a slave or puppet and no one has command over you, but YOU. Yes you want it to work out...hey that is fine, but you need to find balance amigo. Stand up for yourself. She doesn't get to forbid you to do jack S ! If she tells you to jump you do not ask how high, instead look at it as hey I make my own decisions that pertain to me. Do not let everything revolve around you and her being tied together with every decision...that my friend is complete and utter nonsense. Relationship related topics I understand where your head is at. However, you are still an individual as well. You do not just forget about yourself and appease everyone else. You get 1 life do not piss it away living it for someone else. Balance it out by living for you and figuring out what you have to do to find balance and be happy.

The things you cannot control...let them go because you cannot change any outcomes.

My friend you have allies here and you have a family here who has your back. I will continue to follow along and I urge you to continue on and keep engaging with the community. The more you put in the more you will get back.

Cheers and Best Wishes!

-SC-

[Notwendy]

If we were to separate there would be massive financial implications. Along with the custody problems. W believes she should have our 3 small children weekdays and at least every other weekend. (Currently I work to support the family and she looks after the kids). She also believes I would come visit them all whenever I want and has also said she’d want me with them for holidays and events etc.

I know I could fight any of this legally, however fighting dbpdw in any way is not something I’d undertake lightly due to the effect it would have on our relationship, which would be catastrophic even if the marriage was over, and would greatly affect the kids.

The financial aspect of divorce is something my father would occasionally mention as a reason for not doing that. Financially though, her spending caused difficulty too.

He didn't initiate discussions about his relationship with my BPD mother with us kids, that would not have been appropriate. However, as we became teens, the dysfunction in our family was apparent- we could see it, and teens being teens, we'd ask- Dad, why don't you just divorce? I have mentioned there are similar dynamics as yours. It appeared he was trying to keep things stable. She was the one complaining and she had threatened divorce. When we were younger, that scared us but as teens, we'd think - well then why not get one?

No matter what she said - she was completely dependent on him financially and for everything else. He was taking on the responsibility of the family.

His part in the dynamics was less obvious. It was only when I worked on my own co-dependent behaviors that I could begin to understand it. It seemed he cared about us kids, but then, he'd ignore my mother's behavior- which was abusive to him and to us. Why didn't  he stand up for us?

It came down to this- standing up for his own boundaries was very difficult for him, and if one doesn't feel they can do that, then, they won't be able to do it for their relationship with anyone else- children, your mother, for instance.

There is no failure in these situations- there are choices, each with their own challenge. Divorce is expensive, but so is staying with someone whose spending is uncontrolled. Co-parenting is complicated when divorced, but it's complicated when staying together. Even now, you are in conflict with your wife over the children. Divorce effects children- so does being raised with parents in a disordered relationship.

I say both parents because both have an influence. Since BPD mother's behaviors were more obvious, I saw her as the one with the problem. It was only when I was having challenges in my own relationship and sought counseling that a counselor talked to me about co-dependency. And here I was, thinking I was being the "good person" because, being a good person in my family was being co-dependent. I didn't know how to stand up for myself or to say "no" to anyone - it wasn't OK to do that growing up. Kids want to please their parents- and will be observing both of you.

How do you teach kids to have boundaries and stand up for themselves so they have the skill to do this as adults? You role model it. This was what motivated me to do the work on co-dependency. Understandably you fear the effect this may have on your relationship, but not standing up for yourself reinforces and enables her behaviors in your marriage too.

Your post about your BF wanting you to not take antibiotics- someone who loves and values you - wants you to also be feeling your best. They would want you to take the antibiotics or if you needed counseling- to get the counseling you need. That goes for you too. You don't need  permission from anyone to take care of your basic needs.

[zondolit]

It actually makes no sense

One problem I've had is to keep trying to find logic where there is none. And that can distract me from doing what I need to do.

[thankful person]

I recall in my marriage's last months my ex made intimacy into an unhealthy tease and sabotage maze.
If you divorce then you each would have separate adult lives and you each would have your own parenting times.  None of this "come on over whenever" since she would make sure it never happened very often.

My custody evaluator recommended equal time as a first attempt, then that I would get custody if it failed.  A practical equal time schedule is 2-2-3 (or 2-2-5-5 stated as a two week schedule).  If need be, you can use a daycare or sitter for times you aren't there personally.  A theme to remember is "Sure, your time is your time but my time is my time.)  I made sure that school, afterschool and daycare were declared part of My Time.

Thank you forever dad. Are your custody arrangements working out now? This is one thing that terrifies me, the knowledge there is no way this could be amicable, and if I were to fight for custody in any way shape or form other than her deciding when I see them (probably with her there), then things are going to get very very nasty. I have no interest in remaining friends or popping over were we to separate. I do dream of having a peaceful life where if I had the children 50% I would be devastated and miss them so much but another part of me thinks hey I can enjoy my own company and do what I want including enjoying my time with the kids so much more. I have worked hard to declare and hold boundaries such as playing the piano (my wife doesn’t like me playing the piano because she is jealous and I gave up doing it professionally because it was too stressful trying to find the time to prepare performances)… However when I play the piano I feel happy and calm and simultaneously stressed and angry waiting for the accusation of how I’m just doing it to show off and show I’m better than her and all this… It’s like I’m waiting for some revelation that I’m over it all and I just don’t care anymore but it just doesn’t seem to be coming.

[thankful person]

Hi

You are not a 'failure', I will say that nobody on these boards is a failure. Quite the opposite, we are all dealing with a person who has a severe mental illness, I think it is an understatement to describe that as a challenge. You are a human being with your own feelings and needs, sadly it seems that many relationships with a pwBPD are like one way streets. To extend the analogy whilst we want to follow the direction the pwBPD keeps trying to drive the wrong way and collisions inevitably follow.

Therapy is for you, it is quite frankly nobody else's business and is not deceit to arrange and attend it without telling your partner - your physical and mental health is yours and nobody has any right to dictate who you tell and how you decide to deal with it.

Here, we all are or have had to deal with very difficult and emotionally draining scenarios, scenarios that a majority of people outside find very difficult to understand.

You are not a failure

Ortac

Thank you. I’m still so thankful for this community and all the help everyone’s given me. It may not seem like it, but when I look back to how things were before I joined bpd fam, things were so much worse with my wife’s blaming and screeching. Her behaviour has somehow been brought into line with these things since I educated myself, but I know I can’t ignore the fact that I’m very unhappy in this marriage and I can’t go on like this long term if things are to stay this way.

[thankful person]

My friend you have allies here and you have a family here who has your back. I will continue to follow along and I urge you to continue on and keep engaging with the community. The more you put in the more you will get back.

Cheers and Best Wishes!

-SC-

Thank you, I honestly couldn’t think higher of this community of friends and I’ve never had so much help and attention in my life. I am honestly happy to be part of this group and meet such incredible people.

[thankful person]

Why didn't  he stand up for us?

Not Wendy, this is what I dwell on of your story, every time. My wife prides herself on being a good mother, which lots of the time she pulls it off well, but nobody ever quite knows when she might flip and I know it’s not a peaceful and safe situation to grow up in and I’d hate for my kids to say they wish I’d done things differently. I think about this so much. Whilst I know I’ve put in more work than your father because I have a better understanding of the relationship dynamics which he didn’t have access to back then… I have indeed changed many things and it has helped. But I also worry I’m letting my kids down and I just want to do right by them. I want to be happy in this marriage, but if I can’t be then I know I’m not being a good role model to them.

[ForeverDad]

Are your custody arrangements working out now? This is one thing that terrifies me, the knowledge there is no way this could be amicable, and if I were to fight for custody in any way shape or form other than her deciding when I see them (probably with her there), then things are going to get very very nasty. I have no interest in remaining friends or popping over were we to separate.

My son was 3 years old when we separated, he's aged out of the court system and grown now.  (Lives with me too.)

The first thing domestic court did was to make a temp order.  It is standard for the court to set firm dates and times for exchanges.  Your task is to ensure they're as good (or as "less bad") as they can be.  I agree, my ex too imagined she could waltz into court and tell the court what she demanded.  Court doesn't work like that.

However, my court did have unwritten and unstated deference and preference for mothers in general.  Family court judges are allowed wide discretion, especially if neither parent had been there before and thus no history.  In my case, another court had just started a Threat of DV case against her, granting me protection from her, yet when she rushed to domestic court, it totally ignored the adult matter pending — as though adult behaviors had no connection to parenting behaviors? — and issued a temp order where she had temp custody and temp majority time.  I had no custody and only alternate weekends and a 3 hour evening in between.

So, no, under nearly all circumstances she can't demand that you have your parenting with her hovering nearby.  The only exception might be if she were able to convince a court you needed supervised visitation.  And, yes, that's what my then-spouse tried to do to me when she filed for, get this, protection for her and son from me.  For a week or two her ex parte petition (without me there to defend myself) did have me blocked.  But court quickly had a subsequent hearing where CPS stood up and stated they had "no concerns" about me.  So court promptly dropped our son from her protection filing.

We were soon ordered to attend mediation attempts.  Mediation does not have to succeed, but do give it a sincere try.  The main reason mine failed was because she refused to negotiate on reasonable parenting.  She insisted I stayed with alternate weekends, I saw no basis to budge from seeking 50/50 parenting.

Unfortunately she had such a favorable temp order that she dragged the divorce out to nearly two years, at which time we started equal time anyway.

Repeat, you do not have to agree to her terms.  Courts are used to assigning fathers their own parenting time.  Not conditional upon mother's presence nor mother's approval.  Sadly, you won't be able to convince her of that, not matter how much you try to reason with her.  So once you've stated your position, best not to venture there again — remember to avoid pointless JADE (Justify, Argue, Defend, Explain) — let the lawyers and mediators handle it.

[Turkish]

To repeat:

Repeat, you do not have to agree to her terms.  Courts are used to assigning fathers their own parenting time.  Not conditional upon mother's presence nor mother's approval.  Sadly, you won't be able to convince her of that, not matter how much you try to reason with her.  So once you've stated your position, best not to venture there again — remember to avoid pointless JADE (Justify, Argue, Defend, Explain) — let the lawyers and mediators handle it.

My ex didn't want to involve the court. She said, "you can pay me $X per month and we'll do physical custody like this..." no way in hell, especially given the kids were 1 and 3 at the time. I hired a lawyer. I also spun it positively (using the BPD communication tools), especially given that she was still living with us. Custody and child support was by the book: logical, calculated impartially (I made almost 2X her income at the time).

[Notwendy]

Not Wendy, this is what I dwell on of your story, every time.

It continues to puzzle me too, even though I understand the dynamics he was dealing with.

You are doing the best you can for your kids and my father did his best too. No parent is perfect. We will all make some mistakes. I do understand why you allow your wife to control if/when you see your mother. The resulting conflict would be difficult. But from what I have seen, enabling this kind of control didn't change it.

[thankful person]

Thanks forever dad for sharing your story. I bet that’s nice your son’s living with you now. Honestly I love spending time with my kids when my wife’s not around.
Turkish, I’m realising if we’re to separate this will be the time to stop letting her control everything because I won’t feel I have to anymore. It’s very hard though.
Not Wendy, I don’t know what she’s playing at now as she’s invited my mother sooner in the summer and for longer, meanwhile we’ve been having huge rows and discussions about how she wants me to leave and doesn’t think things can work out between us, she doesn’t love me, and doesn’t think she ever can, I’ve destroyed her sex drive which was her whole being, I’m no fun and too serious and she’s become like it too. We have nothing in common and never had anything in common except desperately needing to be loved. Most of this is 100% accurate.

[ForeverDad]

... meanwhile we’ve been having huge rows and discussions about how she wants me to leave and doesn’t think things can work out between us, she doesn’t love me, and doesn’t think she ever can, I’ve destroyed her sex drive which was her whole being, I’m no fun and too serious and she’s become like it too. We have nothing in common and never had anything in common except desperately needing to be loved. Most of this is 100% accurate.

There may be some truth to that... but it's not all your fault.  Perhaps she is mirroring you, slanting her complaints so it seems you're the bigger problem?

While none of us is perfect, not all the Blame should be laid at your feet.

[Turkish]

Turkish, I’m realising if we’re to separate this will be the time to stop letting her control everything because I won’t feel I have to anymore. It’s very hard though.

This is the hardest time to get through, but you will get through it. My ex wanted to keep almost the same r/s for years after (despite being married), and I felt compelled to do so for a long time. Seasoned members here questioned me and my lack of boundaries, and I needed it. The kids for years asked us to get back together (which is natural), but I played a part contributing to that doing too many joint functions.

These days when she comes to pick up the kids or drop them off, I tend not to even go out and talk to her, and handle things through text or email.  We join on kids'  birthdays, mothers day and fathers day and the occasional her family function on my weekends, that's it. Plow through and handle this now, and it will get better.

My first 6 month milestones were she finally moving out, and then filing the custody and CS stipulation with the court.  Those were very stressful, but a huge relief. My turning point was when I realized that there was nothing I could do to save the intact family. My T at the time told me, "no matter how much you disagree with her actions, and I do also, she's an independent entity, free to do what she wants."

[thankful person]

Thank you forever dad, it certainly helps to have some different perspectives here and I couldn’t have coped with all this without the internet and bpd family.

Turkish, I certainly think my wife has child like expectations of our separation as she does with everything. With everyone being happy and me still being at her beck and call. And probably occasional great sex with me is something she thinks will be part of it. She’s even said we could get divorced and then might choose to marry again. I also think this is one reason why she keeps saying she wants me to leave. She thinks the separation will rekindle our passion and love for one another. I do think this is true but I think it would be very short lived which makes it totally pointless.

I feel I have two choices right now which is stay or leave. As it’s been pointed out leaving the family home doesn’t look good for future custody agreements, no matter the reason. I don’t want to leave the kids and I would be very happy with my life if my wife didn’t constantly verbally attack and criticise me etc. I know there are further issues to deal with, but the main reason I’m unhappy is because she’s unhappy.

She would struggle without me, one reason being that she likes to have company and struggles to make friends. She would say the kids need her because she puts them all to sleep at night - true - but I take responsibility for getting them all up and ready and fed in the mornings, when I get up a couple of hours before her (actually it’s my favourite time of the day when I get to be a “single parent”). If I wasn’t here my wife would eventually get up whenever the kids really needed her, but would struggle to get things organised and get them to nursery etc, and would probably be very short tempered from having much less sleep.

So, I stay. I keep trying, but not in a way which degrades myself if I can help it. I try to keep things calm for the kids especially, but also stand up for myself when I can. I wait it out. For some reason I feel like you all know where this relationship is headed, but I honestly don’t…

[thankful person]

I just wanted to share some more details of what the issues are (apparently). I know a pwbpd doesn’t always know what they mean or mean what they say or even know what they want. Still I persist in trying to make sense of it (I know Zondolit warned me about it).

So it started off with my wife expressing that she’d like more dirty talk (in person not text) as a precursor to sex. But whatever I said always came across the wrong way and I couldn’t get it right. So it seemed to me almost like an excuse to blame me. She is not able to tell me what it is she wants to hear. All she says is that she wants verbal not physical as in she doesn’t want spontaneous affection or sexual attention without these elusive “words” to turn her on. It doesn’t come naturally to me at all. For me sex is a more spiritual experience. So we are entirely mismatched anyway. We always were but at the start my wife was luring me away from another relationship and she put in all the effort and I responded but then she decided she’s fed up with making an effort. We don’t kiss or hold hands or hug because those are the things I want and why should I get what I want when she doesn’t get what she wants? (Her words).

Recently since she made me feel like an abuser for touching her - which was consensual and she even said she enjoyed it - (she has a history of sexual abuse) my wife has asked that we need to connect through words more but not sexual. She had many issues with me talking about kids, work, chores and routines etc. I don’t know what she wants to talk about. One problem is everything she wants to do in life costs the earth and I don’t bring up any topics because next thing I know she’s spent loads of money on credit cards on it.

Any thoughts welcome. Things have been much calmer today but it goes in cycles. If I become complacent then I suddenly get accused of making no effort again and the cycle continues…

[ForeverDad]

It appears far more women were abused as children or youths than not.  Well, at least claiming so.  We weren't there and of course abusers make sure there are no witnesses, so all we have is what they say.

My ex, the girls in her home were abused by the stepfather, also behaved the way your spouse does.  After a dozen years of marriage, we had a child and afterward she called it sexx - I perceived it as a four letter word - but I saw it as making love.  No longer a good meshing of our lives.

Once our marriage started unraveling, there was no turning back to our prior enjoyment of each other, sometimes in the morning she would hint about "tonight..." but during the day she made sure to sabotage either her feelings for me or my feelings for her due to slights or verbal attacks.  What had in past years been frequent intimacy became infrequent, sometimes more than a month between.  At the end it was only when she wanted something.  She sure knew how to ruin it.

Over in our Topic discussing The Bridge there is a post there about The Backyard Black Hole.  (If you haven't read The Bridge, then please read it too.)

The Bridge
The Backyard Black Hole

In short, no matter what you do or say to comply, appease or whatever, there is little if anything you can do to help long term ... unless your spouse wants and tries to improve herself.  Only a very few can do so without experienced guides by means of intensive therapy.  Sorry, you have too much emotional baggage from the relationship for her to get past it and really listen to you.

[GaGrl]

It appears they want a perpetual seduction.

[Notwendy]

For some reason I feel like you all know where this relationship is headed, but I honestly don’t…

I don't think anyone can know the details of someone else's relationship- but the patterns of behavior- this is common, and I think we can know to some extent that if one person has disordered behaviors and the other person is accommodating these behaviors- reinforcing them- the pattern is likely to continue unless the other person decides to change their own behaviors. The issue with this is that it disrupts the patterns between them. While the behaviors of the pwBPD are difficult for their partner, they are familiar and the choice of the partner as well.

How long the relationship lasts, if someone decides to change or leave, that isn't something anyone can predict or decide for someone else to do.

[livednlearned]

I know a pwbpd doesn’t always know what they mean or mean what they say or even know what they want. Still I persist in trying to make sense of it

I would argue that she knows what she wants.

She wants to reject you before you reject her.

She's protecting herself from your rejection or abandonment of her.

It would be the same no matter who she is with (since she's untreated).

This is not something you can fix or change because it is about her self protection.

She keeps both of you distracted by giving you impossible tasks and getting a lot of mileage out of your tendency to focus on your own shortcomings.

This prevents the focus on her which she is not equipped to examine.

Focusing on your own authenticity will likely be appealing and terrifying to her (likewise the same may be true for you). It means at least one person will be steady and that means safety.

Doesn't guarantee the conflict goes away altho at least one person has a life affirming goal that also models something important for the kids.

[I Am Redeemed]

You’re probably always going to get accused of making no effort because the validation and attention needs of someone with BOD are endless… hence, the story about the black hole FD posted.

LnL is right. There is a tendency for pwbpd to reject their partners because they have a deep, maybe subconscious fear that they will be the ones rejected.

It’s a familiar pattern we see here. The pwbpd places all the responsibility for the r/s on the partner with various complaints and accusations.

It comes from the euphoria experienced during the love-bombing or honeymoon stage, when the pwbpd was idealizing the new partner. They expect that level of intense happiness to continue for the duration of the relationship, which is not possible, and they blame the partner when it doesn’t.

They don’t view the relationship as their partners do. A typical partner of a pwbpd believes that they should be 50/50 in terms of effort and energy put into their relationship. A pwbpd bases the satisfaction with the relationship on how well their partner is able to place their focus on the pwbpd 100% of the time, even when children are involved.

Have you ever seen this:

How a Borderline Relationship Evolves

[thankful person]

Thank you all so much, your messages have really helped me. The bridge story reminded me of the book and film “touching the void” where a mountain climber had to cut the rope that his injured friend was dangling from in order to save himself. It was an inspiring story of the injured guy surviving. But actually what was interesting was the guy who cut the rope had lots of expected criticism, but not from the climbing community who clearly understood and supported his efforts to help his friend who had broken his leg on descent. Anyway I digress…

Thank you all for helping me see that my wife really is delusional and has been dragging me down with her. I’m confused as to why, when I first joined bpd fam and started using all the tools and advice… my wife became so sane and reasonable and wtf? Easy to manage. This was no short lived delusion on my part, it honestly lasted from around July 2021 to November 2022 and I posted plenty about it on here during that incredible time. She gave birth in October 2022, which I think is no coincidence. I would also like to note that much of her sanity from that time has actually remained, like if you were to watch her as a fly on the wall for a day she doesn’t seem nearly as crazy now.

Here is an example: from when baby 1 was born in 2019… w would have trouble getting comfy on the couch in order to breast feed baby. She would suddenly screech at me to get out with the baby. I was to wait with baby at the other side of the house until she was ready for baby. Then she would screech because I didn’t get baby to her soon enough. She screeched lots about how I should have bought a new more comfy sofa. If I started creeping closer in the hope of getting baby to her sooner then if she heard us she’d screech to get further away again.

This is what happens now. I hold (different) baby standing a metre away from her but facing other direction and not talking to her. We have a different sofa and she’s still not happy with it but doesn’t blame me. She either tells me she’s ready for baby or politely asks please go in the other room and she deals with baby. She doesn’t often screech like that anymore which I think is a fantastic cause for celebration despite everything. Life is so much more peaceful for the kids.

So I continue with validating, not jadeing, SET. It’s sounding like this is all I can do but just for some reason it’s no longer working in the same way. At the same time,  I’m understanding I do have further avenues with quitting caretaking more fully. I know this would most likely need to involve me attending therapy. I told my wife recently one day that I’d had enough of all the accusations of not making any effort, and she actually stopped the accusations for a couple of days. Should I just hold firm that I’m not interested in this game, it doesn’t mean I’m not dedicated to the marriage, it means I feel I make enough effort and don’t want to discuss it. How would I handle this conversation? Interestingly my mother has been dragged into this same accusation where she “makes no effort” and does not live up to my wife’s expectations of a mother in law. I was surprised when I spoke to Mum and said, “look you could at least respond to her messages…” Mum told me she always does.

Any other thoughts or advice welcome… I’m not giving up. I’m coming to terms with the idea that the marriage and family unit may not survive and I know there would be some good things about this. But I want to continue trying to get to a point where my wife treats me with more respect in the mean time.

Thank you all again, and yes the latest article on how a borderline relationship develops was spot on. What do you think about the fact that I saw a psychiatrist during the love bombing stage who I feel greatly encouraged me to go for it, giving up a 14 year relationship with a man I loved, a country I had emigrated to, my home, my business, my cat… for a mentally unstable girl 15 years younger than me on the other side of the world…? She said to me, “You know exactly what you want…” and I said, “I want her.” Was I already so far down the rabbit hole that she couldn’t even attempt to help me out? If I had seen a different therapist, might they have encouraged me not to leave so hastily? I’m so happy to be here with my children who are my world, so I know that everything is exactly as it should be. But I do continue to be baffled by that therapy session.

[Cat Familiar]

If you feel on the edge of leaving, why be reluctant to express who you really are to her? You have been appeasing her so long, you’ve forgotten who you are and what you truly want.

You tell her you’ve had enough with the accusations that you’re not putting in enough effort, and she backs away from that. Think about that. What you said, and how she responded.

Through trying to manage her dysfunctional emotionality, you have developed a habit of not being your authentic self. People with BPD have an innate sense of knowing when a person isn’t being congruent. It makes them uncomfortable and consequently they act out more.

If you can risk being true to yourself and expressing what you really feel and want, then she will know where she stands, and where you do as well.

Being truly authentic, when you’ve been walking on eggshells for years is a big risk. However if you are at the end of your rope and contemplating how your relationship might implode at any minute, what do you have to lose?

[SinisterComplex]

Thank you forever dad, it certainly helps to have some different perspectives here and I couldn’t have coped with all this without the internet and bpd family.

Turkish, I certainly think my wife has child like expectations of our separation as she does with everything. With everyone being happy and me still being at her beck and call. And probably occasional great sex with me is something she thinks will be part of it. She’s even said we could get divorced and then might choose to marry again. I also think this is one reason why she keeps saying she wants me to leave. She thinks the separation will rekindle our passion and love for one another. I do think this is true but I think it would be very short lived which makes it totally pointless.

I feel I have two choices right now which is stay or leave. As it’s been pointed out leaving the family home doesn’t look good for future custody agreements, no matter the reason. I don’t want to leave the kids and I would be very happy with my life if my wife didn’t constantly verbally attack and criticise me etc. I know there are further issues to deal with, but the main reason I’m unhappy is because she’s unhappy.

She would struggle without me, one reason being that she likes to have company and struggles to make friends. She would say the kids need her because she puts them all to sleep at night - true - but I take responsibility for getting them all up and ready and fed in the mornings, when I get up a couple of hours before her (actually it’s my favourite time of the day when I get to be a “single parent”). If I wasn’t here my wife would eventually get up whenever the kids really needed her, but would struggle to get things organised and get them to nursery etc, and would probably be very short tempered from having much less sleep.

So, I stay. I keep trying, but not in a way which degrades myself if I can help it. I try to keep things calm for the kids especially, but also stand up for myself when I can. I wait it out. For some reason I feel like you all know where this relationship is headed, but I honestly don’t…

So in her mind she thinks she is going to get a break and after a certain set of amount of time you can go back to normal like nothing ever happened. Do not fall for that. You cannot be a doormat and stand idly by and just go with the flow on that. This is where boundary setting comes in. This a perfect opportunity to steel yourself and enforce boundaries. You have to have the mentality that you are option 1 or you are option NONE!

Do not live in fear, do not tolerate S behavior. Speak your truth, be authentic and true to yourself and command RESPECT! That is only the way to break the vicious cycle. I say command respect because you have to train yourself to come from a place of power and speak with confidence and indifference. Its like hey this is what's up and this is how it is going to be. The moment you show too much emotion or you come off as desperate though it's a wrap. You have to approach everything with a level head and not flip flop and waffle like a pancake. Its straight ahead like a charging bull or leave it alone. Have a plan in place. Decide what your end game and goals are and then proceed forward by taking action.

Also, again...please be kind to YOU and take care of yourself. We all know this is not easy. It's hard and it sucks, but obviously you know we are behind you all the way.

Cheers and Best Wishes!

-SC-