and so, she is back.

[Before you can make things better, you have to stop making them worse...]

Hello all,

It's been just short of three years since my Ex ended our relationship while in a badly dysregulated state.  My Ex is Bipolar 1 with BPD and could and did become psychotic.   I am never sure in my own mind if she was psychotic at the end or just so badly dysregulated that she looked psychotic.   Maybe it doesn't really matter, but I think it does indicate how confusing things got.

It took a couple of months to untangle our finances and our property.     While that was going on my mother succumbed to her final illness (Alzheimer's) and I dealt with the dysfunction of my family of origin alone and simultaneously as the end of my relationship.    All of that really knocked me on my butt for a long time.   I resent the timing.   both events happening literally almost on the same day.

So she ended the relationship but never really disappeared from my life.   I ended up seeing her (at a distance usually) a couple of times a week.    It appeared to me that her behavior was semi-stalkish.   My favorite park to walk the dogs?   There she was.   The sports team where I had seasons tickets?   She's there pretty often, a couple of sections over.   On Friday afternoons I would leave work, stop at the local bodega and pick up a few things to make Shabbes dinner.   Yup.   She's there too.   I am often in public places, at social events, representing a community organization and she is always there.    She volunteers in the garden across the street from my home.

I've kept a wary distance.   I've gone to some lengths to change my schedule, places and times.    I gave up a few social events, while working to explore new social venues.

Something has changed in the last couple of months and I am getting friendly overtures.    which I have just managed to keep at bay by twisting myself up like a pretzel to keep that wary distance.    I recognize that's not tenable in the long term.   I keep getting 'trapped' in coat rooms.   at the end of aisles.    the other day at an event she came to sit next to me, and only the shuffling of the crowd, avoided an awkward exchange.    I am just barely managing to be civil when I avoid and evade her.     which conficts badly with my personal values.    I value cordial exchanges and I escaped from the coat room pretty poorly.

I understand that this really isn't tenable.  I can't keep twisting myself up like a pretzel to avoid her.   Especially when it appears she is going to some lengths to increase contact.    What I am finding is that this recent change has unleashed some really conflicted and complex emotions in me.    Yeah there is a surprise. 

It feels very risky to talk to her.    Coming out of our relationship nearly killed me.   It feels very against my nature to continuely dodge her.   I was really surprised to find that her ending the relationship, especially the way she ended things,  did not end many of my feelings about/for her.    I am not sure I know how to respond to these friendly overtures and little nods and smiles I am on the receiving end of.

If you have read this far, thank you.    I guess if I have a simple question it is,  how do I prepare for the day when I can't escape from the coat room?   and if I have a complex question, it is how do I pull apart and identify the complex emotions around her being 'back'?

'ducks

[babyducks]

Hello all,

It's been just short of three years since my Ex ended our relationship while in a badly dysregulated state.  My Ex is Bipolar 1 with BPD and could and did become psychotic.   I am never sure in my own mind if she was psychotic at the end or just so badly dysregulated that she looked psychotic.   Maybe it doesn't really matter, but I think it does indicate how confusing things got.

It took a couple of months to untangle our finances and our property.     While that was going on my mother succumbed to her final illness (Alzheimer's) and I dealt with the dysfunction of my family of origin alone and simultaneously as the end of my relationship.    All of that really knocked me on my butt for a long time.   I resent the timing.   both events happening literally almost on the same day.

So she ended the relationship but never really disappeared from my life.   I ended up seeing her (at a distance usually) a couple of times a week.    It appeared to me that her behavior was semi-stalkish.   My favorite park to walk the dogs?   There she was.   The sports team where I had seasons tickets?   She's there pretty often, a couple of sections over.   On Friday afternoons I would leave work, stop at the local bodega and pick up a few things to make Shabbes dinner.   Yup.   She's there too.   I am often in public places, at social events, representing a community organization and she is always there.    She volunteers in the garden across the street from my home.

I've kept a wary distance.   I've gone to some lengths to change my schedule, places and times.    I gave up a few social events, while working to explore new social venues.

Something has changed in the last couple of months and I am getting friendly overtures.    which I have just managed to keep at bay by twisting myself up like a pretzel to keep that wary distance.    I recognize that's not tenable in the long term.   I keep getting 'trapped' in coat rooms.   at the end of aisles.    the other day at an event she came to sit next to me, and only the shuffling of the crowd, avoided an awkward exchange.    I am just barely managing to be civil when I avoid and evade her.     which conficts badly with my personal values.    I value cordial exchanges and I escaped from the coat room pretty poorly.

I understand that this really isn't tenable.  I can't keep twisting myself up like a pretzel to avoid her.   Especially when it appears she is going to some lengths to increase contact.    What I am finding is that this recent change has unleashed some really conflicted and complex emotions in me.    Yeah there is a surprise. 

It feels very risky to talk to her.    Coming out of our relationship nearly killed me.   It feels very against my nature to continuely dodge her.   I was really surprised to find that her ending the relationship, especially the way she ended things,  did not end many of my feelings about/for her.    I am not sure I know how to respond to these friendly overtures and little nods and smiles I am on the receiving end of.

If you have read this far, thank you.    I guess if I have a simple question it is,  how do I prepare for the day when I can't escape from the coat room?   and if I have a complex question, it is how do I pull apart and identify the complex emotions around her being 'back'?

'ducks

[truthbeknown]

Babyducks,

I can relate to your situation.  I was there last year with my ex partner and it was very difficult.  Probably the worst break-up i have ever had.  As far as how to handle it I don't think there is an easy answer.  You may be wondering how some of us on the board have handled situations like this etc.   Do you have any contact with anyone in her family? to see if she is in therapy etc? If not I would just say take care of yourself the best you can.  I have done things like EFT tapping and hypnosis to help with my recovery and to dis-engage.   It took me awhile to want to use some of these techniques to "get over her" because i didn't want to lose my love feelings for her even if i could not be with her.  But at some point I moved away which didn't help with closure but helped avoid what you are going through considering she was seeing another man and trying to flaunt that in my face.   It's sad when we discover our partners have mental health issues that they are not willing to face or unable to.    Good Shabbas.

[babyducks]

thanks truthbeknown,

I am not in contact with her family but I know she is in therapy.    She was very committed to therapy, compliant with medication, recognized and treated the bipolar but struggled to manage the mania.   even with medication.   when I met her she had been in therapy for 7 years and had made great progress.   like any chronic illness the progress didn't mean the symptoms had ~gone away~.    only that there were good days and bad days.

It took me awhile to want to use some of these techniques to "get over her" because i didn't want to lose my love feelings for her even if i could not be with her. 

that's an interesting point.    one of the feelings that has sprung up in these last two months is some of the warm loving feelings I have for her.    I kind of like them.   well duh.   who wouldn't.    I know there is no possiblity for a relationship.    I don't even particularily want to talk to her.   but I still feel warm loving feelings when she comes to sit next to me.   how weird is that.    it may be that they are residuals.   left overs from the past.   I kind of feel like they respresent some of the better parts of me.    I don't know that I want to let go of those either.    on the other hand they feel just that little bit dangerous.    interesting.

chag sameach to you.

'ducks

[Notwendy]

Happy Hanukkah Ducks,

I am not sure what direction you wish to take this relationship or what she wants.  It seems that if the two of you run in the same circles and are bound to run into each other, it would be good to not feel you have to hide from her or avoid her.

I think it would be good for you to know what you want- regardless of her intentions for "running into you".  I think being cornered by anyone is a boundary violation- keep that in mind if she does that. There are more appropriate ways to talk to someone.

Boundaries and truth will keep you focused. Being cornered isn't the best situation to have a discussion. Your anxiety and stress from that will compromise your emotional composure. One potential reply might be- I understand you wish to speak to me, but this is not the best time/place for me to speak to you. Can we arrange to meet at ( coffee shop- not a date place) to talk?

[Cat Familiar]

Hi Ducks,
First of all, I'd get very clear with exactly what I'd want from that relationship: 1. no contact  2. friendly exchanges when paths cross  3. friendship (distant or close)  4. intimate friendship with no attachment  5. living together

I'd imagine each of these options and let my gut tell me which I should choose. And then stick to that plan.


After I split up with my ex, I often saw him about town (small town here). Oddly enough, every time some mutual friends visited from out of town (I inherited the friendship), we'd inevitably run into him--every. single. time. Often these sightings were at a distance, thankfully, so no contact was needed.

Once however, he did show up uninvited and unexpected, at my house when they were visiting. Then he proceeded to tell me, in private, that he was actually a "good guy"  . (Ok Dude, whatever you say.) That let me know that he did a major re-write of our history together.

He fled the area after getting arrested for assaulting his next wife, skipped his arraignment, and had an active arrest warrant in the state for years. Now I hear he's living on the opposite coast, so I no longer am concerned about crossing paths with him.

Over the years, I've become much more direct and open about my feelings and should I ever encounter him again, I'd be likely to say that I'm not interested in speaking with him or hearing anything about him.  I feel fine with feeling that way as well as expressing that, should there ever be a need.

So my question for you, Ducks, is do you really have good feelings for her still, or is it nostalgia speaking?

Cat

[babyducks]

thanks NotWendy, and Cat,

I think NotWendy was moving in the direction I need to go.   Right now it feels like what I want, what my goals are, … are pretty simple and small.   I want to go out a public place and feel peaceful and comfortable.   Not be worried about being cornered somewhere.   Not be concerned about a dramatic moment breaking out.

There is no way I want back on the roller coaster that comes with close contact.    I don't want to be rude or inappropriate in public.   I don't want to twist myself into a pretzel dodging her.    so from the list I would say - a modified number 2.

First of all, I'd get very clear with exactly what I'd want from that relationship: 1. no contact  2. friendly cordial exchanges when paths cross  3. friendship (distant or close)  4. intimate friendship with no attachment  5. living together

I'm not sure my feelings are up for a cordial exchange, probably for the reason NotWendy mentioned.

I think being cornered by anyone is a boundary violation- keep that in mind if she does that. There are more appropriate ways to talk to someone.

Boundaries and truth will keep you focused. Being cornered isn't the best situation to have a discussion. Your anxiety and stress from that will compromise your emotional composure. One potential reply might be- I understand you wish to speak to me, but this is not the best time/place for me to speak to you. Can we arrange to meet at ( coffee shop- not a date place) to talk?

Being cornered does raise my anxiety and stress.   having a prepared canned response would help.     I appreciate the suggestion.    I would have to tweak it a bit to fit.   I am reluctant to give her more than 15 minutes without having a way to walk (get) away.


'ducks

[formflier]

Babyducks,

It would seem that shorter is better. 

"I'm not able to talk right now."

Would that work? 

I'm also wondering if a phone call might be a good way to handle this.  Set your expectations ahead of time with her.  If she continues to boundary bust after that... well... we can cross that bridge then.

FF

[babyducks]

FF,

shorter is always better.   at least for me.   knowing her the way I do, my best guess is she has some audacious plan afoot to accomplish some remarkable thing, that will completely meet her needs/wants while taking no account of anyone else's feelings/wants/needs.   that's how she operates.    I don't want to invite any of that into my life so I am going to continue to avoid and evade but try to draw a boundary of how far I will go with dodging this.

'ducks

[Notwendy]

I agree with shorter and better if you don't want to engage. I think we tend to stay on the side of "polite" but it seems some people don't get the hint. We can still be civil but it may take being direct " I don't want to discuss this topic with you". "I am not available to discuss this". Being direct may help you keep your space in your world without her cornering or stalking you.

Also, when less energy/attention is paid to her overtures, she hopefully will move on.

This could be some good practice on boundaries with people who tend to push them. It's a hard thing for me to do as I tend to be "nice" but sometimes I need to be civil and direct.

[formflier]

  my best guess is she has some audacious plan afoot to accomplish some remarkable thing, that will completely meet her needs/wants while taking no account of anyone else's feelings/wants/needs.   that's how she operates.    

Hmmm... .this is a different thought than I first assumed.  I was thinking she was going to worm her way back into your life, perhaps recycle.

What I'm seeing here is that "she has something to say" or " a point to make" or "a lesson to teach you... " and she is working her way up to it, building up her confidence... ."probing" your boundaries.

Remember... .just like you know her best, she knows you best too.

Of the two of you, which is more likely to change a habit?  (I vote for Badyducks).  Very different than saying you "need" to change a habit.

So, let's assume she is "planning" and "confirming" that you are still you, so that she can carry out a plan.  The best way to short circuit her plan is to act in a way that would surprise her.

What would accomplish your goals, yet be out of character for you and also be "healthy"?  ( I get it you don't want to make a "scene".)

FF

[toomanydogs]

hey babyducks,
  first, let me acknowledge this sounds awful and really stressful. I agree having a canned response is best, and I agree keeping that response short is also best.
  and i also think it's really smart to focus on what you want, not on what you think she might want. i'm hearing you that you don't want to get back on that roller coaster, and you don't want a recycle.
  i'm wondering--off the top of my head--about the warm, loving feelings you're having? could it be that you've worked your way through your relationship and now can feel loving towards her without wanting to be in contact? to me, that sounds like forgiveness and acceptance, and truly admirable on your part. getting to place of embracing those feelings while remaining disengaged sounds really healthy.
  no big advice from me, just agreement with a lot of the advice you've already gotten.
 
TMD

[babyducks]

What would accomplish your goals, yet be out of character for you and also be "healthy"?  ( I get it you don't want to make a "scene".)

my goals are still relatively simple.  I want to go out to public places and feel comfortable and peaceful.   that has a lot more to do with what goes on inside my head than what she is actually doing.   she is, indeed, probing my boundaries and I do find it uncomfortable.   I can raise my level of comfort by coming up with a canned response.   Kind of preparing in advance.   some how there just seems like more I should be doing, like I am coming at this from the wrong foot.    I think my choices are, I can hold to a firm boundary, and avoid her.   Hope she gets the message and backs off.    Or I can acknowledge her probing and find out what the  she wants.     Neither sounds very appealing at the moment.

  i'm wondering--off the top of my head--about the warm, loving feelings you're having? 

I think they come from a couple of places.   One, for sure, is nostalgia.   If this had been a normal relationship that ended in a consensual way, I am sure there would be some lingering feelings of affection.   I also think I sometimes have this false perception that I should not love some one who caused me pain.    That when the behavior gets so egregious, a switch should flip and blip,  the love goes away.   which I haven't found to be true for me.

I guess I have more thinking and working to do on this.  thanks guys

'ducks

[Notwendy]

I don't know what your family background is, but for me, love with pain was a familiar feeling in my FOO and I learned I had to accept that, even though intellectually I felt it should not be that way.

I had to work on some self love and to not be drawn to love that comes with emotional abuse.

Ducks, if you have to work on something, let it be loving yourself enough so that no hurtful love will tempt you. We don't have to accept crumbs of love along with pain. Yes, there were some good times with your ex- there had to be for you to stay with her over the time you did. But you can also love yourself enough to hold out for a healthier kind of love if the relationship you had with her was not good for you.

[AskingWhy]

I don't know what your family background is, but for me, love with pain was a familiar feeling in my FOO and I learned I had to accept that, even though intellectually I felt it should not be that way.

I had to work on some self love and to not be drawn to love that comes with emotional abuse.

Ducks, if you have to work on something, let it be loving yourself enough so that no hurtful love will tempt you. We don't have to accept crumbs of love along with pain. Yes, there were some good times with your ex- there had to be for you to stay with her over the time you did. But you can also love yourself enough to hold out for a healthier kind of love if the relationship you had with her was not good for you.

Ducks, this is good advice.

My uBPD/uNPD H is enmeshed with his adult children and I somehow always seem to be given the scraps of affection from his children, or something done as an afterthought.  Covert incest and enmeshment is often a component of BPD relationships. 

I am learning not to depend on my H's "love," or simply accepting the scraps he chooses to give me when he thinks of me.  Disengaging is good way of dealing with your X.  Be cordial and leave it at that.

[formflier]

What about a phone call.  Instead of being curious and asking what she wants, just let her know you aren't up for chats.

What do you think she would say?

FF

[Notwendy]

I wouldn't call.

She knows how to pick up the phone, or email.

The stalking/cornering behavior isn't appropriate and I think a call would be making the contact for her.

Personally, I would go with having a set response if I was cornered. Say, I can't discuss this at the moment. Please contact me by phone/e mail if you wish to speak to me. Let that be in her hands to do. Being cornered would put me off guard and I would want to consider what is being discussed before replying. I would not make the first contact.

One problem with calling would be that she could deny the behavior " oh it is just coincidence" " you must be stalking me" and that would be crazy making. The following/cornering is a sort of indirect overture- something she doesn't have to own. For her to call, or e mail- that is direct and open communication. If she wants to communicate, then she can do it directly, not put Ducks in the uncomfortable position to guess what she wants.

[babyducks]

What about a phone call.  Instead of being curious and asking what she wants, just let her know you aren't up for chats.

I think a phone call would trigger both of us pretty badly.   I am not opposed to exploring triggers.   I would want to explore them carefully.     About 7 months after the relationship ended, I got an email message from her.    It said that she felt enough time had passed and we should move to being friendly, and perhaps even friends.    I declined to invest any energy in that.    It was very typical of her approach to things.    Her wants and needs and feelings were of primary importance and my wants and needs and feelings were only considered if they agreed with or matched hers.    I had just lost my partner, my mother and my second home in the country, not to mention the plans I had for the future but she missed me and felt like it would be a good idea if we would be friends.    when I wasn't prepared to do that, I got a blast from her.   I suppose it's possible we are in the same kind of spot again.

I don't know what your family background is, but for me, love with pain was a familiar feeling in my FOO and I learned I had to accept that, even though intellectually I felt it should not be that way.

excellent point Notwendy.    my family of origin shows up on the scale of child neglect, not abuse but some pretty serious neglect.    huge deficits in providing medical care, nutrition, attention, supervision, clothing.    they tick all the boxes.  that's why I have some pretty huge validation needs of my own.

as I continue to think about this,  I do want to be comfortable and at ease when out in public.    I want to be able to be present for the event I am at, and for the people I am with.   right now I am distracted, waiting for her to show up.   and preoccupied figuring out how to avoid her.     I know that isn't tenable, some contact is likely unavoidable.   I suspect the next time I get trapped in the coat room I will give things five minutes to see which way they develop in.     and have a couple of prepared lines if things go south quickly or I am surprised and unable to regain my equilbrium.

'ducks

[Notwendy]

It's hard when the person is in your circle.

I deal with this somewhat with my BPD mother. We aren't no contact and it isn't the same as a broken up romantic relationship, but I do want to avoid drama with her. I don't share personal information with her - it is too vulnerable for me and if we get into emotional issues, it fuels drama between us. I try to speak to her, politely, as I would a person I just met at a party- keep conversation light, and not TMI, not dramatic. You could also add not too long if you run into your ex.

Avoiding her does take mental energy. Perhaps some non personal lines if you run into her like "hope you are having a nice holiday" or " I hear we are getting some snow soon". I have found that if a person is seeking drama and you don't provide any drama, they get bored with you.

The term I have seen used for this is "medium chill". It doesn't help with a close relationship. It helps keep some distance and drama out of the situation for people in your circle.

[formflier]

I think a phone call would trigger both of us pretty badly.    

Gotcha... .how did it feel for you to get the email... .to respond to it?  

I suppose my big picture that I'm trying to explore for you is instead of letting her be in charge of the probing, cornering... whatever you call it, I'm wondering what it would look like for you to preempt that and let her know you aren't up for contact (or define what you are up for)

I'm wondering if that makes you feel better about things, since it can be at a time/date of your choosing vice wondering which coat closet she could pop up in.

Note:  The coat closet thing creeps me out to think about it.  Totally different level of stuff (IMO) than waving and being at the same event.

Hmmmm... .knowing her as you do, how often would something like this "get going" and then die out on it's own versus go to some conclusion that she was pushing for?  If there is a decent chance of it dying out... .perhaps best to just wait.

FF

[empath]

Babyducks,

I've been separated from my h for 9 months now (he dysregulated and moved out), and I've been okay with situations where I know in advance that he will or might be present. We also have a d14 who lives with me 24/7, so I will occasionally spend time with h in a restaurant or something with our d. I will make a bit of non-personal conversation and not really engage much.

A few weeks ago, h showed up at my church. This has been one of my safe places where I can be open about what's going on and receive support and help. I wasn't okay with him being at my church, and our d wasn't okay with it either. The good part is that I have several friends who knew that it wasn't good for us and checked on us.

I'm still pretty nervous about the prospect of h returning, and I'm having trouble with my anxiety levels lately. I don't want to be stuck in a situation with him. There is a plan to address any potential return visit that h might make, but I still feel unsettled in the meantime. So, I'm trying to make sure that I exercise and eat properly (always a challenge at this time of year). What are you doing to take care of yourself?

[babyducks]

The stalking/cornering behavior isn't appropriate and I think a call would be making the contact for her.

The following/cornering is a sort of indirect overture- something she doesn't have to own.

Notwendy, we cross posted this morning.    these are two good insights, thoughtful, helpful.    a lot of the places she is showing up, she doesn't really have good reasons to be at.     the bodega is on the other side of town from her.   sure worth a trip if you have a craving but... .every week?    she doesn't have a dog, why be in the dog park?  it's a nice park but.   I think you are spot on when you said it's all an indirect overture.   so yes, she's in my circle but she is really stretching those associations.  I am seeing her two or three times a week which is too much for coincidence.    It's like she is dancing around me seeing what might catch.

Note:  The coat closet thing creeps me out to think about it.  Totally different level of stuff (IMO) than waving and being at the same event.

kind of creeps me out too FF.     there is some very subtle blocking type behavior going on.   she will position herself in the door way.   to get out I will have to walk towards her, challenging the right of way so to speak.    If I walk towards her and say 'excuse me'  she will give way.    it's very subtle.    she isn't staring me down and refusing to move.    she is busy with some thing or someone and lingering in the door way.   it's gamesmanship.   we both happened to be at a charity event, the event broke up, people started to move towards the exit and she put herself in a spot where I would have to cross her path.     with anyone else I would say,... .ah it was an accident,  except she stopped, turned and looked at me and moved further into my trajectory.   

my best guess right now is she is ramping up.   I don't see this dying down any time soon.

[babyducks]

A few weeks ago, h showed up at my church. This has been one of my safe places where I can be open about what's going on and receive support and help. I wasn't okay with him being at my church, and our d wasn't okay with it either.

I'm really sorry to hear this empath.    in my opinion (and yup I am biased)  that's some pretty serious boundary busting.   

my Ex does this too.    follows me into my place of worship and attempts to triangulate with people and the place itself.      I find that terribly painful.    I have some friends who attempt to run interference but I only find that some what effective.   I believe we should be able to be emotionally and spirituallly open and vulnerable in our faith traditions.    that's very hard to do when some one is using our faith as a tool, or a toy, to make a point.


the big thing I am doing for self care right now?     just trying to slow down, sloow waaaaaay doown, and sit with some of these uncomfortable feelings that are getting churned up.      being receptive to whatever my emotion is, and not judgemental of it is something I have to be concious of.    it's okay if I am anxious when I go out.    it's okay if I am checking out the parking lots of places I am going looking for her car.    that's okay right now.     trying to not beat myself up about whatever thing I am thinking but to let my thoughts and feelings rise organically, or naturally and then try and let them drift away.     not a lot of drifting going on.


'ducks

[Lucky Jim]

there is some very subtle blocking type behavior going on.   she will position herself in the door way.   to get out I will have to walk towards her, challenging the right of way so to speak.  

Hey babyducks, It seems like your Ex is attempting to intimidate you by inviting a confrontation, so I suggest you proceed w/caution.  

I find this "blocking type behavior" troubling because it reminds me of my BPDxW, who used to block the doorway to prevent me from leaving a room while she was delivering one of her diatribes.  It got to the point that I refused to remain in any room with her unless I had a clear path to exit.  All part of BPD so be careful.

LJ

[empath]

my Ex does this too.    follows me into my place of worship and attempts to triangulate with people and the place itself.      I find that terribly painful.

I'm sorry that you experience that, too. It is painful in a setting where we need to be open and vulnerable. I'm biased about the need for safety in our faith communities as well.

My h has taken to exercising where I usually go lately, and he got a newer car recently. I don't know what it looks like, though. I check the parking lot for the temporary tags. Today, I tried to focus on the sensory input of my surroundings; it helped at least a little.

[babyducks]

so I suggest you proceed w/caution.  

point taken LJ.   there is something unusual about this 'showing up' and 'bumping into' that's going on.   in a normal, ordinary, less chaotic relationship that ended I would expect some casual running into from time to time.     this seems a lot more directed at me with some kind of purpose attached.    I can't imagine what the purpose is... .but this does not feel normal, or good, to me.

[babyducks]

My h has taken to exercising where I usually go lately, and he got a newer car recently. I don't know what it looks like, though. I check the parking lot for the temporary tags. Today, I tried to focus on the sensory input of my surroundings; it helped at least a little.

sounds like you and I are in the same boat empath.   a long time ago here I read a post about remora fish, and how people with BPD are like remora fish in a way.   convinced they can't swim alone.    I wonder if I could find that post again.    it was a good one.

(found it
https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=121218.0

it seems that my EX is so directionless she has to mimic me to have a sense of identity.    that's really hard to understand.    and it feels so intrusive.    especially when I am not feeling at my strongest.

hang in there.  I hope this gets better for you.
 

[Notwendy]

Pay attention to your feelings Duck- the feeling of intrusiveness is your guide that your boundaries are being infringed on. You can't keep her out of public places- your temple, restaurants, shopping areas but I think the idea of having responses prepared and also how to handle being cornered will help.

I get the feeling of not being strong at times. It can feel lonely being single over the holidays, but being single is an opportunity to work on becoming stronger.

[flourdust]

Do you think it would be effective to try to communicate briefly and firmly by email?

Something like, "Hey, I've noticed that you seem to be trying to connect with me at (examples of places). What's up with that?"

And if she says something about becoming friends again, "That's very sweet of you! But I have moved on and would rather not stay in touch. I wish you well."

[babyducks]

And if she says something about becoming friends again, "That's very sweet of you! But I have moved on and would rather not stay in touch. I wish you well."

I really like the language you crafted flourdust.   I'll add this one to my list of scripted replies.


thanks