Pregnant GF with BPD filed PFA

[Tact]

Hey guys,

I've come to believe my ex fiancé has BPD.  We had a whirlwind romance. We fell  in love at first site, well at least that what I believed. We confessed our undying love for one another and constantly argued who loved each other more. We proclaimed we where soulmates.

We went to NYC 3 months into our relationship to pick out a custom engagement ring.

I missed a lot of red flags. She said her father was physically abusive and hadn't  talked to him in over a decade. She was in 6 serious relationships in 10 years and all but 2 physically abused her, the other two only cheated on her and left her. But according to her they all did. I felt sorry for her and did my best to do everything for her.

We spent everyday together for 18 months.  Texted one another constantly and we hated being apart. She was on 5 different psych meds but I didn't think much about it. She had never been married and wanted kids badly.

We decide to start trying 3 months in Bc we knew we found our life mate and if we got pregnant we'd just move the wedding up.

We spent months trying to no avail, she had cervical cancer and thought maybe she couldn't have kids. She decided the meds were keeping her from conceiving so she stopped taking them, I objected but she assured me she would be ok. I told her she needed to talk to her doctor but she refused. I love her so I decided that she knew her condition best so we proceeded, dumb I know, but I thought we could get through anything together.

Fast forward, we get pregnant after nine months of trying. I started getting bad feelings and started digging around. I uncovered loads of lies, found journals where she had  fantasies of murder and suicide. I ended up contracting HSV and HPV from her, she played it off like I had a yeast infection, docs confirmed it was the STD's and when I found her journal she writes about having contracted it though she lied to me about it several times in the past.

This is where things went down hill. I forgave her and my world fell apart when we were about to combine bank accounts two weeks before our wedding. I was handing her a check and asked how much was in the account.  She said $400 bucks, I asked her how that was possible since I have given her $6000 in checks the past year and she had a job. She made her bills before we met and I had questions on why she didn't have a significant savings. On top of that I paid for all the food, gas, entertainment, and all her clothes and accessories.  She had no answer and accused me of spending it all. I said that was impossible Bc though I had a card I never used it and we always used funds out of my account to do and buy everything. She only used her account to pay bills and whenever she ate lunch at work. Keep in mind when we first met I had $25000 in savings and I was down to a little over $3000.

That night she refused to talk to me. I was with my kids and decided to leave since she was upset. The next day we were supposed to get engagement pictures at 6. I didn't text her all day due to trying to give her space. I texted at 430 asking the status of the pictures. She said she had cancelled them. I got angry and a text argument started. I eventually stopped texting. The next day I went over to pick her up for church and asked if she had sent my family the wedding invitations yet. She said she forgot, though her friends and family got theirs and she had weeks to send them.  I again got irritated but we sent them. I dropped her off since it was her wedding shower. I started doing 8 hours of yard and house work at her place Bc we were going to sell our mutual properties and buy a bigger house together. Her place was a mess and I fixed it up and put it back together over 3 months.

I texted her asking if she got to her moms ok and she said yes. I texted an hour later asking if she was having fun. She stated she was holding back tears and she didn't picture her shower being this way. I told her that I loved her and to have fun, I didn't care about the money or her not sending the invitations and to have fun.  I didn't her from her for 7 hours. She ignored my text. After a long day of yard work I went home and she texted me at 9. I said I was home and the kids were sleeping and I asked why she ignored me. It started another text fight and I said I was questioning the wedding and that we need to talk and I need resolution to all the lies and accountability for the money. She accused me of being abusive and I told her that I'd be over the next day with a friend to get my stuff since I felt like she was making the same accusations she made with all of her ex's. She said that was not going to happen and if I wanted to break things off I'd have to do it face to face alone.

I went the next day to get my stuff and a huge argument started. I told her that I wasn't going to take this risk and that I was going to get my things due to her irrational behavior. She started taking my things and locking them in rooms, screaming and crying. She then called her friends and I said the whole thing was getting out of control and that she acted like she wanted me to die or kill my self. Her friends came over, I grab the most valuable thing I had there, a shotgun and a bag of clothes.

Two hours later the cops showed up asking if I was ok. I said yes and asked why they were there. The said my ex called the cops and told them I was going to kill myself and was threatening her with a shotgun and that she was so scared she locked her self in a room. I explained that she locked my belongings in a room, I never threatened myself or her, and I simply took my shotgun. They left without incident.

3 days later she filed a PFA, she hasn't stepped foot in a courtroom 3 times cited pregnancy issues. She refused to return my belongings, listed her house for sale, refuses to tell me anything about our baby even through her lawyer, and her mom finally contacted me after a month. I thought she was trying to fix this thing initially.  She did tell me the baby was ok, which was a relief. But after a few days of chatting she told me the only way to get her daughter back and for her to drop the PFA was by paying her daughter $8000.

It's been a crazy emotional rollercoaster for me. We never had a fight before this and we saw each other everyday for 18 months. I haven't seen or talked to her in 9 weeks and she moved an hour away with her mom.

Help!

[RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING]

RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members are welcomed to express frustration but must seek constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[Tact]

Please give me advice.

[Tattered Heart]

Hi Tact,

Welcome to the boards ,

I'm so sorry that you are going through so much. It sounds very hectic. It's important that you try to protect yourself as much as possible in this scenario. Perhaps you could write down some of the stories about red flags that you saw in the even that things go to court and to help you with the PFA. 

Are you hoping to try to work things out with your ex? What are some steps you think you could take to begin working through reconciliation? I know it's hard to do things to try to get back together when she won't speak to you. Would it be possible to relay that through her lawyer?

[Tact]

Well the red flags that I missed or ignored are as follows.

She claimed every significant other chested or physically abused her.
She was on 5 different psych meds
She filed a PFA on her first fiancé for beating and raping her, but did it two months after the fact, she still lived with him, but filed it when she found out he was cheating on her.
Another man up and left her and he had to sue to get his things back.
I found a journal with her writing about wanting to kill herself and her friends
She lived with a man for three years and she helped raise his kids and she always told me she loved and missed them. In the journal she talks about how much she hated on of them. Writing I HATE HIM over and over again.
She lied about STD's and when I got one she claimed it to be a yeast infection. In the journal she writes about how devistated she was finding out she had them.
She hasn't talked to her father in over a decade citing physical abuse.
In the fight she said I reminded her of her father, that killed me.

I want her back bad. I love her more than anything.

My lawyer is trying to express this to her now and I was able to tell one of her childhood friends how much she means to me and the love I have for her.
Her moms stonewalling me. She claims she's afraid to tell her daughter we are talking Bc she once wouldn't talk to her for a year over a cell phone bill dispute.
From her moms stories she's cut her off 3-4 times like that in the past 11 years, just not for that long.

I am wondering how I get her trust back, flip her switch back to "love", and how i should handle her demands to drop the PFA. Initially I fought against them but it seemed to pour fuel on the fire. Once I backed off she seems to be considering a lot of other options with me according to her lawyer. Everyone that knows her says she's a frazzled mess, paranoid, and high on stress. Coming off the 5 meds is not helping her. Her childhood friend is saying her mom has her in a "bubble" and she only trust her mom.

I'm not sure how to approach this any suggestions would help. I love the woman with all my heart and our relationship was perfect before I started asking hard questions after the journal, STD, and money issues.

[Tact]

Bump. I need help.  Her lawyer got back to me and said she never wants to see or talk to me again.

She only wants to communicate through text and email only after the baby is born and I can't be there for any appointments and the birth.

I won't even get to name the child and it will have her last name.

But she is willing to drop the PFA if I sign a document.

Advice please.

[Skip]

I am wondering how I get her trust back, flip her switch back to "love", and how i should handle her demands to drop the PFA. Initially I fought against them but it seemed to pour fuel on the fire. Once I backed off she seems to be considering a lot of other options with me according to her lawyer.

Tact, pw BPD or BPD traits have inherent trust issues and also carry with them a great deal of personal shame, and they don't handle stress well Weddings, child birth).

Your reaction and actions likely pushed all of these emotional fronts into the red zone. She can't handle that. Her journal said she had been suicidal at times. These emotional things flood her to a dangerous point and she will run from things that overwhelm her emotions - distort the events so that she doesn't have to face her own shame (live the herpes and the missing $5,400). That's what e PFA was all about.

In your defense, you couldn't know that pushing hard would do this. You pushed really hard.

Her lawyer got back to me and said she never wants to see or talk to me again. She only wants to communicate through text and email only after the baby is born and I can't be there for any appointments and the birth. I won't even get to name the child and it will have her last name.

The best advice we can give you is to be patient. Give her lots of space. Let this thing cool down.

Here's what you know.

1. She emotionally over reacts to things. She got hit hard, so she is reeling.

2. She withdraws when this happens and can remain with drawn for a while

3. She is pregnant, there is no other guy involved, and so you can be patient and not be concerned another guy will get into this.

4. Backing off a little has already help

5. She retaliates. The PFA. The $8,000.

6. pwBPD have mood swings, so no mood is permanent. She can swing back.

The big thing now is not to do anything to make matters worse. Give her space to settle down, let the emotions go to baseline. Get into a normal life flow without you. Its then that she will start to sort her feelings.

I would probably get a message through to her, on paper, that says something like...

Jenifer, the most important thing is you and the baby and I don't want to do anything to bring stress to either of you... .I very sorry that I over reacted. I was wrong. Whatever you need right now to feel calm and comfortable you should have.

This is a very selfless note. You are validating her feeling and decisions and respecting them. You are being an man an owning what happened. You are asking for nothing at all.

Let that set up with her.

As for the lawsuit, you may just want to ask your attorney to back off right now. Have him tell the other attorney that if the PFA helps her sleep better at night, you are OK with that for now.

I don't mean any of this literally... .these are just examples of flipping the tables here. Exit the conflict at all levels.

But she is willing to drop the PFA if I sign a document.

What document?

Also, can you explain the $8,000?

[Tact]

She wants me to sign a document that I'll refinance the car, not contact her until the baby is born, then strictly through text and email, stay in therapy (she doesn't realize that I'm in it Bc this event and reaction ruined me), and that if I have another "violent outburst she can take legal action.

I've passed messages through a friend via my ex wife. They pretty much say how much I love her, will always be there for her, and how sorry I am and that I'm willing to give as much space she needs. How that's coming across I don't know.

Apparently my girl told her friend she doesn't understand why my ex wife is such a defender of me since I "talked so bad of her" and she never should have believed the things I told her. She was the one that always fanned the flames of drama between us and talked about having her killed, which I thought was a joke but now I'm not so sure. Hell most of the time she'd take my phone and text my ex herself she got so mad.

I tried through her mom but found out that her mom refused to tell her anything positive and refused to let her read the 300 plus test we've had back and forth. I'm told her mom has her in a "bubble and is hilocoptering" her.  According to this friend she trust no one but her mom. The guy at the car dealership said she seems to be afraid of all men, she made him so uncomfortable and nagged him so much that he excused himself from the situation and got a woman to help.

A lot of her demands have fallen off over time.

She defrauded the bank out of $4000 dollars and somehow blamed me for it. I called the bank they know it's not me and told me she calls several times a day blaming me and that I took her money, though it was a joint account and I only took my half out since I had to pay bills and lawyers.  keep in mind I gave her over $12000 dollars the last year and she would have lost her house if I didn't help her Bc she only takes home $2400 and month and her bills alone are $2800. It was so odd having someone read me the notes on the account, stop and tell me how sorry they were I was going through this.

When I took the money she called the cops, "begging and pleading" him to come to my house collect the money and give it to her. He told her that it was illegal since I was on the account.

I'm thinking my best bet is to sign the document with the caveat that she can contact me when she's ready and then it becomes null and void.

She refused to return my and my children's things. Stating that she has tried twice yet i have emails from her lawyer stating she won't until the car is refinanced.  I had to show these to my ex wife because she was told that by her friend. Another ex had to sue her to get his things back and my lawyer found the case.  She also filed another PFA with the Guy she moved into the house with.

I wish I knew she was BPD Bc I would have never pushed, especially after the argument.

[Skip]

She wants me to sign a document that I'll refinance the car, not contact her until the baby is born, her mom refused to tell her anything positive and refused to let her read the 300 plus texts we've had back and forth.

This is uber high intensity right now. She has called the police twice and filed a PFA.

I really think I would back way off right now. I do this to improve the likelihood of resolving this to some extent later. I would do it so that you don't end up in jail on false DV charges.

What is the $8000 she wants you to pay her daughter? Why does she want you to refinance the car?

[Tact]

We bought a car together. Wasn't my idea. I wanted a car she wanted an SUV to seat 6. Me, her, my two kids and the baby.  She wanted on the loan to get a better interest rate. I agreed since I thought nothing could come between us.

I stopped texting her mom once my lawyer subpoenaed her. 

The $8000 is $5000 in inequity in the SUV that she wants me to eat at a higher interest rate and larger monthly payment, $2000 that she wants me to pay the bank that she defrauded, now it's $4000 Bc somehow she processed 3 fraud claims, and two 500 dollar car payments that I made. 

She refused to give me the info to pay it since she always did and had a picture of my debit card that she paid it with online. I canceled the card and she was telling her lawyer I refused to pay the bill. I have 5 emails asking her lawyer for the info and never got it.  I just called the dealer to get it and they helped me sort it out.

My life has some crazy bomb dropped on it 24-48 hours. If someone told me the whole story I have to tell I would think they were lieing.

I think my best bet is to sign the document, eat the money, have the PFA dropped and just sit back and wait.

The only thing that scares me is her mother, she essentially became the sole influence on her daughter and I know she doesn't want me in the picture.

[Tact]

To clarify the text weren't to my girl, I'd definitely be in jail now if that was the case. They were between her mother and I.

She told me she is afraid to tell her daughter we are talking Bc she's been cut off 3-4 times in the last decade.

She seems to tell her only the negative not the positive though which I find odd.

[Skip]

This is a war zone. I you can, you have to emotionally detach from the battle.

The question I have is how can you stop the bleeding without being a chump?  How do you take the high road here?

This is what you want to do... .take the high road and sit back and let her come around.

Does she feel that you were abusive? How? It will help to address that. The shotgun is such an easy thing to blow out of proportion.

[Tact]

She stated to me on a hand full of occasions that I was being emotionally abusive toward her. All Bc i would call her out on her lies.  Maybe I pushed it to far but she knows I have trust issues.  So when I'd call her out she'd cry, I'd never get an answer or resolution and she'd say it's in the past.

I don't know how calling someone on the carpet for stealing money and lieing about STD's is emotional abuse. Hell, I feel as if I'm being abused Bc of it and the radical measures she's taken to screw my life up and not to mention the emotional blackmail with our baby.

So give me the best advice you got brother.

I'm thinking sign the document stating I'll continue therapy, refi the car, and not to contact her.

The only clause I want added is that she can contact me when she is ready and if she changes her mind and the no contact clause falls off. Yet I will only engage on whatever lever she is comfortable with and whatever frequency she prefers.

After talking to my therapist she seems to think this is the best course of action and that not having daily indirect contact with her through, family, friends, and lawyers will destress her and she will start rethinking everything.

She also seems to believe that if I fall off the radar with communication it's going to cause her to split back to the point where she is going to want to try and work it out.

She also believes it's just a matter of time until she splits her mother which would be the best possible scenario for me at the moment since she has her in a bubble.

The shotgun thing really bother me.  In the police report she states that I took it downstairs out of her presence and she heard me unloading it.

In the PFA she stated I was walking around chasing her with it cocking it.  Total lie.

She took four days to file it as well and I'm more than certain her mom played on her fears and pushed her to do it.

[Skip]

You have a great therapist. I think he/she nailed it.

I'm thinking sign the document stating I'll continue therapy, refi the car, and not to contact her.

The only clause I want added is that she can contact me when she is ready and if she changes her mind and the no contact clause falls off. Yet I will only engage on whatever lever she is comfortable with and whatever frequency she prefers.

I don't want to even appear to be telling you what to do.

I will say that I think this strategy would be a non-starter for me. It one thing for someone to claim abuse in a PFA. It's another for me to admit to it and sign a settlement agreement that if I have another "violent outburst she can take legal action", that I need to stay in therapy (to heal my violent tendencies), that I concur with he PFA and its best that I don't communicate for month and then be restricted to email. What are the implications of all of this relative to a future custody and visitation of my child?

1. I would consult with a family law attorney on what I need to do to get preserve access to my child.

2. I would get rid of my guns and create a paper trail in doing it. This gun issue will come up again and I want to be able to say, I have no guns.

3. I would shift gears and instead of chasing her (and friends, etc), I would pass through my attorney that says that I respect her decision to end the relationships and I release with grace. This will reduce tensions a great deal.

4. I would have my attorney draft a simple property settlement agreement which outlines what you owe her, what she owes you, splits the cash, etc. and closes all joint accounts.

5. I would offer to settle the PFA by mutual agreement that neither party will contact the other until the baby is born or both parties agree to cancel the agreement. I would request a HIPPA release and agreement that I may contact the OB for health status reports.

6. Send a small gift to the mom and thank her for listening to you when you needed someone to talk to.

Give her miles of space. Be really nice about it. End all the avenues of conflict. Go take a parenting class and anger management. Stay in therapy. Do some mentoring here (we will gve you a letter). Take a tactful retreat. Get in shape for the birth and where things go from there.

[AnuDay]

So sorry to hear this.  Sounds like a typical BPD story.  I get sad being constantly reminded that people are going through this everyday.  Glad that part of the nightmare is over for me.  We all saw warning signs that we chose to ignore. Don't feel bad.  Lots of us getting drained emotionally physically and spiritually.  Stay on the board here.  It's a great group and sounds like you're already getting sound advice.  Things will get better.  GL

[Tact]

Thanks for the advice! It helps hearing things I should consider to do.

The document would be a contract and the PFA would be dropped. I do have a lawyer and he is going to make sure that it's worded to suit both me and her.

I am worried about being able to have access to my child and it's birth.

[Tact]

How would I start mentoring here. I'd love that. I sent her lawyer an email today that I'd except the deal and I want her to be able to relax, destress, and I want the best for her and that my lawyer would call her with some questions but I wanted her to know.

I feel like giving her space may be the only solution.

[once removed]

How would I start mentoring here.

whats the essence of what you were told when you got here? "in order for things to get better, we have to stop making them worse". it wasnt intuitive (and its a heck of a challenge), but you got the message and saw the wisdom in it. you put on the brakes and shifted directions. you have a working knowledge of the disorder, and the unique challenges it can present. all things you can use to help others.

and in the process of helping others, we can learn a lot, and apply it to ourselves. you get a bit closer to that more objective third party view of your relationship and its dynamics. it feels good to get out of our heads and help others too!

work the tools directly to the right of the board, which youre likely to use for the rest of your life, pass them on, and what youve learned, to others. helping others is great practice, because members arrive here highly emotional and in a crisis state. reaching them involves many of these same tools, like listening with empathy, asking questions, not being invalidating, and avoiding bad triangulation/using good triangulation.

does this help?

[Tact]

Thanks for your comment.  I'm assuming that the best thing to do now that she's willing to drop the PFA is to sit back and wait.

My concern is how to handle her mother who is seemingly making most of the decisions for her and driving her away from me for her own reasons. I know she's going to text me once the contract is signed and PFA is dropped.

What should I do? Ignore her for a few weeks? I feel like if I ghost myself for a while it may make my girl switch back.

It's funny bc in the contract she said not to contact her for 3 months but but a caveat in the saying unless I contact you

[Skip]

It's a control statement... .not much more. "You can't contact me, I can contact you?. But yes, it suggests that this story isn't over. Given that there is a baby, there is a lot connecting you.

As for mom, don't play games with her. Show her respect. Games will only make matters worse.

[Tact]

What do you think the best way to do that is? I'm not sure what if anything that she passes to her daughter.

Seems she only passes the bad from what I hear. She also wants her and her daughter to "raise the baby together"

I find it sick and from what I hear people think she may also have a mental illness. It's all here say of course, I'm not throwing stones.

[Meili]

What do you think the best way to do that is? I'm not sure what if anything that she passes to her daughter.

Detach with grace. Thank her for listening to you and stop talking to her. As Skip said, buying her a nice, small gift so that her last thoughts on the subject are positive can help.

[AnuDay]

I agree with Melli.  You need to detach.  YOU need space.  You can't see the forest from the trees.   you can't sit back and react to everything the pwBPD does.  You have to think and plan.  Stop letting them get you riled up.   The only way is tgrough distance and clarity.  Listen to the advice here about only interacting once their emotions return back to a baseline normal.  You can't interact with a PwBPD when they are at the extremes. 

[Whoad]

I agree with Melli.  You need to detach.  YOU need space.  You can't see the forest from the trees.   you can't sit back and react to everything the pwBPD does.  You have to think and plan.  Stop letting them get you riled up.   The only way is tgrough distance and clarity.  Listen to the advice here about only interacting once their emotions return back to a baseline normal.  You can't interact with a PwBPD when they are at the extremes. 

[Tact]

Thank you for the reply.

I'm doing everything I can to get through this situation. Sometimes I feel like I am crazy, though I know it's a side effect of someone splitting you to black Bc it's so far out of your experience of the relationship and the constant ideation.

I know at the beginning all I did was pour fuel on the fire by trying to defend myself. Her mom even asked why I got a lawyer saying that it made things worse for me.  I found that comment odd Bc it's so natural for people to defend themselves when attacked.

My biggest concern is the triangulation between her, her mother, and myself.  I know what direction her mother is pushing her in.

I know space is the key and after this Tuesday there will be no more third party contact between my girl and myself.

I hope this is enough to flip her back.

Once I get through my situation I'm looking forward to helping others see the light on how to deal with loved once that have this personality disorder.

How would you personally handle the situation if it was you using the tools we all have here?

I'm having a hard time detaching? Any advice on how to do that?

I was married for ten years and had two kids, when we divorced I wasn't a tenth of upset as I am now. I never cried over my ex wife and I separating but I cry almost daily over this.

Thanks again for everything!

[Meili]

How would you personally handle the situation if it was you using the tools we all have here?

I'm having a hard time detaching? Any advice on how to do that?

How to deal with detaching greatly depends on what is keeping you stuck. There are ten beliefs that, typically, keep us stuck.

1) Belief that this person holds the key to your happiness;
2) Belief that your BPD partner feels the same way that you feel;
3) Belief that the relationship problems are caused by you or some circumstance;
4) Belief that love can prevail;
5) Belief that things will return to "the way they used to be";
6) Clinging to the words that were said;
7) Belief that if you say it louder you will be heard;
8) Belief that absence makes the heart grow fonder;
9) Belief that you need to stay to help them; and
10) Belief that they have seen the light.

You can read more about those here.

When you let go of all of those beliefs and expectations, it becomes far easier. It helps you focus on yourself, your core values, and making yourself a stronger/healthier person. It allows you the freedom to love without the pressure.

[Skip]

My biggest concern is the triangulation between her, her mother, and myself.  I know what direction her mother is pushing her in.

You know what her mother is saying to you which may be exaggerated... .but yes, it does not help the situation.

Giving her space allows her to think about whether she wants to go forward with the child with her mom or with you (which is heavily biased to you). Giving her space allows her to contemplate the reality of the support she needs.

She is also sending you a message - she is not going to put up with what happened and if you do it again, there will be hell to pay. Unfortunately, she wants you to suffer in this right now.

Play the long game. Do the right things even in the face of challenges by her mom and her. But don't be reckless - you need also to quietly be prepared for seeking custody in family court.

[Tact]

Well deal was finalized today to drop the PFA.

Refi the SUV
No contact until the baby is born, only via text and email after that
Contact through her mom about the baby and her health
Any gifts, money, cards etc be sent to her mom
6 weeks of visitation with the baby and we work on a schedule after that
Continued counseling and I sign a realse so she can contact my therapist

What should I do now? Sorry all the tools I've learned here are frazzled in my mind. I love her to death and want to work this out. Baby is due in 14 weeks.

Please advise my best possible strategy.

Thanks again for all the help, I'm desperate!

[Skip]

Please advise my best possible strategy.

Radio silence for now. Let's talk it out here.

Continued counseling and I sign a realse so she can contact my therapist

Can you tell us what this is about? Why does she feel justified to insist you attend therapy, and what is she going to be contacting the therapist about?

[Tact]

Honestly I don't know. My therapist gave me an eval on anger and I scored a 34 and a 2.

Suggesting I get mad as often as a normal well adjusted person wooild.

My lawyer even told her lawyer that and she still insist on the therapy.

My therapist said she refuses to talk to her since it would be unethical, but hell, I'll sign a form. 

My therapist did say she would talk  to her face to face but doesn't think it's healthy that lshe is a part of this triangle unless we sit down together.

I don't know if she is looking for a professional to tell her I'm healthy mentally, not dangerous, or it's something else.

Thoughts?

[Skip]

Does she she this a treatment to address the abusive behavior for which she got a PFA to begin with? Does you attorney think this will affect you custody if it goes before a judge?

[Tact]

Unknow, I heard via her mother she was in counseling though.

The attorney said the document is a non issue.

For the record I never abused or threatened her other than yelling

[PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES]

PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members may appear frustrated but they are here for constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[Tact]

I do want the relationship with her. When she is on meds it's great. I know with these tools I can make it work.

I love her and want a whole happy home for her and our child.  Not a broken home withiht us both.

[Meili]

To do that, you're going to have to learn to detach with love. By this, I don't mean that you have to detach and stop loving, but just the opposite.

A healthy relationship involves two, separate and distinct individuals who care about one another. Being in a relationship with a pwBPD means that you have to be strong, have realistic expectations, be the emotional caregiver, be the protector, take care of your own mental health, and understand your motivations for staying in the relationship. You can read more about what it takes to be in a relationship like this here.

In order to accomplish all of this, you have to separate your life, again, not your love, from her. If you don't, you won't be able to do things like allowing her to experience the consequences of her choices, maintain your own boundaries,  maintain the structure needed.

Does that all make sense?

[Tact]

I fully understand what it takes to be in a relationship with them now.

My concern is a viable strategy to get her back given the road blocks both legal and maternal that have been placed in my path.

[Meili]

My concern is a viable strategy to get her back given the road blocks both legal and maternal that have been placed in my path.

Sadly, there is no special formula to make this happen. What it really boils down to is working on yourself to make yourself the most attractive person that you can be.

As Skip pointed out, the best strategy at this moment is radio silence and to hunker down for the long game. It is going to take time to make the changes necessary and for them to stick.

[Tact]

So went to court today and the PFA is officially dropped. Thank Jesus!

I signed the document and the judge dismissed it without prejudice.

She was there but I didn't see her. I saw her attorney and asked if she was going into the courtroom. She said yes she has to. I told her that I give my permission not to have to go in there unless she wanted to. I didn't want her stressing and worrying about having to do it. She left.

Was this a good move? I plan on playing ghost now for a while and being respectful and strictly business with her mom. She satarted her third trimester yesterday.

[Skip]

Was this a good move? I plan on playing ghost now for a while and being respectful and strictly business with her mom.

Yes. I think it was good to offer that gesture. If it was received, it helps turns the temperature down a bit.

It is a good time to post about prior problems on the "Improving Board" and work through how yo could have better handled things.  These skills will help you in all relationships.

[Meili]

Glad to hear that the PFA was dropped. Were you able to get the changes that Skip suggested added to what you signed?

Now that this step is over, what's next for you in your world? What are your plans for changing?

[Tact]

I knew if I put them in it was a lost cause. My main focus was to take all pressure off. My lawyer said win, lose, or draw I can't make her do anything to make her divulge anything about the baby. But... .he got her to admit it's mine. So if something doesn't breakout in a month I have some options. My lawyer said my personal property is pretty much a lost cause, all she has to to is lie, and I'll have to sue.

In my mind why push it and give the space I need.

I'm a different man after all this. I don't believe in fairy tales anymore but I do want her back Bc I can't change my heart.

I do have a solid strategy for her if she come back.

The thing that kills me, which I made peace with, is how can one argument change the 99.5% good that we shared.  At least I know the answer now.

My goal is to get that woman back for the sake of a family and stability of my child and to provide what she needs for a stable environment where we can work through her issues.

[Tact]

Actually the fact that she dropped the PFA in general is a huge win! I'm stoked

[Meili]

My goal is to get that woman back for the sake of a family and stability of my child and to provide what she needs for a stable environment where we can work through her issues.

OK, you know what your goal is, now you have to have a plan to get there. Have you thought through that?

[Tact]

Honestly that's why I'm here.  I've evoled so much the past month, have the tools, and will implement them. I can't make her come back. Thought I'm the only person that has made actual scarafices for her even thought I've been continually attacked.

She will see that.

My plan is to disappear, be respectful to her mother, and pray.

[Skip]

Was this a good move? I plan on playing ghost now for a while and being respectful and strictly business with her mom.

Yes. I think it was good to offer that gesture. If it was received, it helps turns the temperature down a bit.

It is a good time to post about prior problems on the "Improving Board" and work through how you could have better handled things.  These skills will help you in all relationships.

I've evoled so much the past month, have the tools, and will implement them.

Which tools are you targeting?

[Tact]

Well if she decides to talk to me again im the near future, SET, boundaries, a lot of empathy. I know I have to listen and be berated by her and detach.

[Skip]

Well if she decides to talk to me again im the near future, SET, boundaries, a lot of empathy. I know I have to listen and be berated by her and detach.

  

Changing your life to incorporate these tools takes a lot of practice - its like learning to golf. 

[Tact]

I know it is. I employ them in my professional life everyday. It works well Bc I'm emotionless. It won't be hard once i learn how to detach.

[Meili]

Being emotionless actually puts you at a deficit here. It's hard to have empathy without emotion. Highly sensitive people can typically see right through fake empathy.

Also, it's one thing to understand the tools. It's a completely different thing to have them so ingrained in our personalities that they are habitual. It takes a lot of practice.

Typically, we suggest practicing the tools here with friends, co-workers, people you talk to at the store, other members of these boards, anyone really until they become second nature to you and you use the communication skills like SET and DEARMAN (and the others) without thought.

Earlier in this thread, you asked about mentoring. As part of your plan, why don't start reaching out to others here and try your hand at them?

[Skip]

Earlier in this thread, you asked about mentoring. As part of your plan, why don't start reaching out to others here and try your hand at them?

I would agree with Meili on this. Here is a good book to read for ideas to use to coach others. She has a few youtube videos, too.

Loving Someone with Borderline Personality Disorder Author: Shari Y. Manning, PhD Publisher: The Guilford Press; 1 edition (August 15, 2011) Paperback: 253 pages ISBN-10: 1593856075 ISBN-13: 978-1593856076

These tools are not about detaching, becoming emotionless and being berated. Besides, you are not going to be emotionless with an infant in our world, or detached when you are up all night with her.

Incorporating the tools should be rewarding to you too.  I use them in my current relationship and they are rewarding to all.

[Tact]

Guys, thanks for everything. I'll definitely do that. I'm sure I'll be coming here daily with thoughts of helping and asking help.

It's a matter of days until her mom texts me. I'm stressing about it. But I know my love is at home tonight distressing and wondering about what she should do since it all ended today.

There's no more drama for her.

[AnuDay]

You are dancing to her tune and she is loving it.  You must somehow regain control of your life and your sanity.  You thought you "loved her to death" but in reality you fell in love with a facade.  She reflected all of the characteristics that you had in yourself while she was in the idealization phase.  Now she is out of that phase and you are seeing the real her.  You must read any and everything on this site.  The tools and references to more tools are here on this site you must find them.  Read Read Read.
Knowledge is the only way to true understanding.  All of us can comment all that we want about your situation, and you can read our comments and agree or disagree, but until you truly understand what is going on and feel it in the fiber of your being you will never have clarity on the situation.

[Meili]

I agree with AnuDay that learning about and understanding BPD is necessary in order to save and have a relationship with someone who is effected by the disorder.

I do not, however, share his conviction that she probably never loved you and that you fell in love with yourself. None of us can know the mind of another. It is very dangerous for any of us to assume that all pwBPD are alike. They are not. They are unique individuals. Each with his or her own constellation of traits. BPD is a spectrum disorder. As such, individuals exhibiting BPD traits fall on different in the spectrum. Passing judgment on a person based on the actions of another does not paint a clear portrait of that person.

How are you doing today Tact? Did you have a chance to try out some of the communication tools? Did you have the opportunity to check out the book that Skip suggested?

[Skip]

AnuDay, I see where you are coming from. I think I might suggest that we consider what has happened here. Tact and his GF where engaged to be married, she is pregnant, she was going to a wedding shower, and they were scheduled to have engagement pictures. This is an emotionally demanding situation for any women.

Tact was upset over finances and a fight broke out. It got nasty, went over multiple days, dragged up some prior unresolved arguments regarding misdeeds of the gf - tact was questioning the marriage, went to remove his personal things from the home, including a loaded shotgun, friends were called in, mother got involved, police were involved... .the GF moved out of her home and in with her mom, cut off communication, filed a PFA.

There are children involved and a newborn on the way... .so its a pretty complicated situation... .Tacts focus up to this point has been the PFA and the legal challenges.

Was his (tact's) love, narcissistic love, where tact fell in love with his own image? That may be true (or it may be wrong). Is the girlfriend a poser? Our role in support is to help others self discover these things (like we did), not offer them as pat solutions. But your point is valid - if there is this much conflict right before a wedding and the coupes ability to resolve the conflict is this broken down, something needs to change.

Make sense?

That said, I do understand the general point you are making. So that we don't hijack this thread, why don't we pick it up here (on this other thread):

But in order for you to even more clearly understand the extreme nature of falling in love for romantic partners of BPD, we need to take a look at two behavior patterns that women on the spectrum unconsciously put into use during their initial phase of idealization that can in some cases cause men to fall head over heels in love with them.

The first aspect that can profoundly affect the speed and intensity which men fall in love with a woman on the spectrum of BPD is the way she makes her partner feel about themselves. In order to get her partner to focus obsessively on her needs, a woman on the spectrum of BPD will do whatever it takes to make her partner feel better about themselves than anyone has ever made them feel. This is often accomplished by shows of adoration, idolization and levels of care and kindness that the partner has never experienced before.

The woman on the spectrum of BPD will initially give the kind of love that is only possible to give when there is complete trust in a relationship. The way she accomplishes this without first building trust is by suspending all of her fears and willing herself to believe her partner is 100 percent trustworthy. And by suspending all of her fears she also gets her partner to in turn trust her completely. The end result is what we might describe a feeling of perfect love.

[Mutt]

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