Respecting boundaries vs ones safety

[statsattack]

Have you ever been in a position where you had to/felt the need to violate ones boundaries, because you are more concerned with their safety if you don't?

[formflier]

Can you clarify?  More details would be helpful.

What I am reading is have I ever thought I would violate someone else's boundaries because I feared for their safety.

Do I have the question right?

FF

[statsattack]

You read that correctly

[Notwendy]

Could you be more specific?

I think it depends on the boundary and the danger.

[formflier]

Yep... more specifics needed...

I'm going to go out on a limb, and speculate that you are really violating their "rules", instead of their boundaries.

"True boundaries" are really hard to violate.

For instance... a common one is how to respond so suicide threats.  Many pwBPD have a "boundary" against people calling 911 on them.  They then claim the callers are being disloyal or some other thing.

However... .that is a "rule" that the pwBPD expects others to live by.  The person calling is within their own boundaries in deciding how to respond to things they perceive. 

Anyone attempt suicide is within their boundaries to try that.  It's their own body.  However, attempts to control the reactions of others are outside their boundaries.

Clarity:  I'm not suggesting it is OK for people to attempt bodily harm, but it is within their boundaries to decided that for themselves.

FF

[statsattack]

Yep... more specifics needed...

I'm going to go out on a limb, and speculate that you are really violating their "rules", instead of their boundaries.

"True boundaries" are really hard to violate.

For instance... a common one is how to respond so suicide threats.  Many pwBPD have a "boundary" against people calling 911 on them.  They then claim the callers are being disloyal or some other thing.

However... .that is a "rule" that the pwBPD expects others to live by.  The person calling is within their own boundaries in deciding how to respond to things they perceive. 

Anyone attempt suicide is within their boundaries to try that.  It's their own body.  However, attempts to control the reactions of others are outside their boundaries.

Clarity:  I'm not suggesting it is OK for people to attempt bodily harm, but it is within their boundaries to decided that for themselves.

FF

That's very similar to what happened. She had told me she was date raped and raped and has PTSD. I always gave her the benefit of the doubt and thought I was a trigger to her and space would solve everything from past 6 months.

One night saw her out and her behavior was unusual. I saw the way she was acting and had this weird ass flash back that this is what happened on the night she was raped.  Reached out to her family because I of watching a YouTube video about Robert Shapiro son and I couldn't live with myself knowing she's hurting and no one who had the power to help could.

Ironically someone told me that's not PTSD that is a personality disorder or schizophrenia and this lady didn't believe she was raped. Once I started looking up stuff BPD made so much sense

[Notwendy]

You acted on your conscience- to protect her. Then you got a larger picture of the situation. If she has a mental illness, it is possible that she made it up. But you did what you felt you had to do to act on your boundaries.


Our boundaries reflect our values. You couldn't ignore possible danger to someone else because that isn't who you are.

Unfortunately, when we do violate someone's boundaries, they may get angry at us. It risks the relationship. It can even cost us the relationship with the other person if they are unhappy with what we did. However, we also have to be true to ourselves.

[formflier]

You made a judgment call based on the information you had.   

You acted to let those that should love and care for a person have information that they may not know and may be used to help them.

Based on what you know now... .what do you think about the decision you made?

Here is the thing about decision making.  You will likely never have all the information you would like to have.  The key is to give yourself a break and not be too hard on yourself when it turns out that with more information, there was a better choice.

Hang in there...

FF

[statsattack]

I made the right decision because whether she was or wasn't raped she needs help. She checks off of 7/9 dsm BPD characrtistcs she needs help. I would do what I did 10/10 times

Didn't expect a no contact order from it with a bunch of exegrated statements. I can forgive her when she is serious about help.

[Notwendy]

I understand the feeling of shock, as I have experienced that when dealing with my BPD mother. But once I understood the relationship dynamics with BPD, this kind of reaction isn't a surprise. Some things at play include- denial, projection, and the drama triangle. The information on this board covers these topics in addition to other information that can help you understand this situation, if you wish to learn more. However, if you are under a no contact order I would not risk the legal implications of violating that- I don't know if she told you this or put a legal restraining order on you but either way, you don't want to get in trouble with legal accusations. This boundary you need to respect.

Sometimes a relationship like this can put us in a double bind. A person may need mental health  care, but in order for this to happen, they need to be able to realize they need help and want it. One of the frustrating aspects of a PD is that the person denies they need help and get angry at those who suggest it. Sometimes the condition for having a relationship with that person ( romantic, family member, friendship) is to not mention it and act as if all is fine. For the other person involved, it can feel like being dishonest to do that. Yet, speaking out, like you did, ( and being true to yourself) can result in being "cast out" by the other person because your picture of them doesn't fit their wish for how they want to be seen.

She may or may not contact you at some point. It is understandable for you to feel hurt and angry by acting on your best intentions. You may not want to forgive her, but you can forgive yourself. You did the best you could with the situation at hand, and didn't expect this response. You could also forgive her as a gift to yourself in time- with no participation on her part by not letting her response hurt your feelings in time- as her reaction to you was a reflection of her condition, not your attempt to help.  And you can stick to your boundary- to not want to interact with her until she is serious about getting help.

[statsattack]

I already forgave her for the most part which is weird. It is a restraining order but doing what I can to fight it, because of awful legal advice didn't fight it.

I risked so much to make sure she would be healthy and that's how her family repays me. I feel like Fred Goldman and her dad being oj

[formflier]

From a "boundaries point of view"... .why fight it?

You said your part and sent them the message.  Your part is now over.  Ball is in their court.

They seem to have responded oddly and have put a restraining order on you.  You have your response from them.  Respect that. 

You get to feel your way about things.

They get to feel their way about things.

Separate issue:  I always advise people to get good legal advice.  I would ask the question "Is there any downside to ignoring a RO"  In other words, to choose not to "fight it".

As long as you respect the terms of the RO... .my take is that you ignore it and move on with your life.

It is very likely that she learned her odd behavior from her "FOO"  Family of Origin.  So... .very likely that they will respond oddly to a reasonable communication.  Note:  To them... they are being "normal" and to them... .you are likely behaving "oddly".

There is really nothing for you to do there other than accept that it is true.

Personal application for me:  In years past, there has been much frustration for me about how "normal" my wife's family can seem and then "poof" something really odd happens. 

Examples of really odd

1.  I refuse to lift a piano.  I am 100% disabled veteran (lots of back and joint issues).  She and her family scream at each other for long time... .about me.   Consensus among them is that I could do it "If I wanted to... ."

2.  She and her family picked a night to have a party at my house.  Refused to let me sleep.  Said if I wanted sleep I had to go somewhere else.  My sleep disabilities are well known, although they changed their opinion and decided I could go somewhere else "If I wanted to... "  Police were called... .I finally got to sleep.  They have expressed feelings of victimization.

So... .I finally got it through my thick skull that it was unwise of me to keep "hoping" they would change. 

It's been about 6... .perhaps 8 months since I have spoken to anyone in my wife's family.  I'm certainly much more relaxed and happier.

I did invite them over for a cookout over the summer.  I greeted her parents... .they just stared at me.  So, the most accurate way to say it is I spoke to them once in that 6-8 months time and they choose not to respond.  So... .I went on and had a good evening playing with kids.  I don't regret trying... .but will respect the way they want to behave.

Why did I tell you this story?  I used to be a "fighter".  I would assume that most people needed my help and I would "fight for what is right".  I'm now convince that the energy I spent "fighting" with my wife's FOO was wasted... .or in some cases made things worse.

Please examine your next steps in light of these stories and this point of view.  How does examining the situation like this "make you feel"?

FF

[statsattack]

If I could move on I would. I am beyond miserable, depressed and feel worthless. It feels like the whole world is against me and my life isn't worth living because not one person stood up for me.

I want my life back I want to be happy I want to function like a happy human being and I haven't been able to do that since February 6th.

[formflier]

If I could move on I would. I am beyond miserable, depressed and feel worthless. It feels like the whole world is against me and my life isn't worth living because not one person stood up for me.

I want my life back I want to be happy I want to function like a happy human being and I haven't been able to do that since February 6th.

That sucks... .  Figuring out that what you thought people think of you... .is not what they think.

Feb 6th is a long time... .   


What kind of things could happen that would help get you your life back.


Then... .it would be appropriate to break it down into categories.

Those that "opposed you"

Those that "didn't get involved". 

So... .are there people that didn't "stand up for you... ." but also did not "stand up against you"?

Very different from people that actively took steps to diminish you.

Last thought for now... .

What does "standing up for you look like?"

FF

[statsattack]

That sucks... .  Figuring out that what you thought people think of you... .is not what they think.

Feb 6th is a long time... .   


What kind of things could happen that would help get you your life back.


Then... .it would be appropriate to break it down into categories.

Those that "opposed you"

Those that "didn't get involved". 

So... .are there people that didn't "stand up for you... ." but also did not "stand up against you"?

Very different from people that actively took steps to diminish you.

Last thought for now... .

What does "standing up for you look like?"

FF

Feburary 6th is the day she told me she was raped and has ptsd.

My life will never be back and I am accepting that. Everything I used to enjoy and found fun I no longer do. My mom and dad didn't have my back. My therapist who is a psychologist didn't have my back or enough common sense to say she has BPD.

Standing up looks like loyalty. When there is someone you love and saw was hurt after doing the right thing you are in this bunker with them and you are by there side as a teammate assuring that because we are on the same team they picked on the wrong person to mess with.

I am sick of people making excuses for what she did and saying her behavior is ok. If you think what she did is ok than you probaly agree with executing innocent people on deathrow.

[Notwendy]

It may not look like it right now to you - but this is an opportunity to make some changes for the better for yourself. No matter who has let you down in this world- you have your back. . It is good that you have reached out here on this board. I think many people have felt like you feel now, due to someone letting them down. Although you feel your therapist let you down- would you be willing to try another one? Some are familiar with BPD and you can ask when seeking out one.

Grieving the loss of a relationship with people you care about takes time, but excessive time- along with loss of joy or interest in anything is something to seek therapy for.

If you do some reading on BPD and the drama triangle, there seems to be a need for a scapegoat sometimes, to project their own issues on to. While it can feel personal, and hurtful, their behavior speaks more about them than anyone else. We can learn to value ourselves through work with therapy, and/or support group, reading here. It isn't OK what they did, but learning about the issues involved with a person with mental illness/BPD can help you not take the behavior  personally.

[formflier]

  not take the behavior  personally.

I will tell you that this concept was earth shattering to me.  I used to think... .if someone was close to me and did something I found horrible, how on earth could I NOT take it personally.

I really had that view backwards.  Once I shifted over and was able to see that someone acting out... .or failing to act a certain way spoke more about them, than what they thought of me, lots of things changed in my life.

Coupling this new revelation with a sharper view that it was OK to stand up for myself has led to big changes.

All that being said... .right now it's obvious you are hurting.     

How can we best support you?

Even more important.

What can you do... .TODAY... .to "step up" your self care to the next level? 

FF

[julie frances lloyd]

It sounds like you are really hurting and in crisis. (I volunteered on a crisis line for a few years, your post reminded me of some of the calls I answered.)

I'm hearing you talk of violating boundaries, could you tell us more about what you have in mind? Are you thinking of harming yourself or someone else?

[statsattack]

I separated the person from the illness. I love that person enough where I risked a lot to make sure she can be healthy.

I'm seeing my therapist today and am letting her know I can't afford 150 a session for her to say you can only control what you can control and be a sexist Jesse Jackson that female ( my friend and mom) get a free pass to violate and ignore boundaries but I don't .

I'm not taking the behavior personally now that I'm learning about it. More I learn better I feel. I'm stuck in a trap that I have to be accountable of something I didn't do

[statsattack]

It sounds like you are really hurting and in crisis. (I volunteered on a crisis line for a few years, your post reminded me of some of the calls I answered.)

I'm hearing you talk of violating boundaries, could you tell us more about what you have in mind? Are you thinking of harming yourself or someone else?

I'd never harm myself and rather harm someone with words than violence because saying I am wrong or sorry has longer affect.

I'm very intense and very competitive.

I am the worlds worst person for talking behind your back, but it's ok for you to do?

Rules don't apply to you but they apply to me. I'm honestly to mad to list them all and how big of a hypocrite she is

[julie frances lloyd]

If you have something to say it is better to say it to the person directly in my opinion. Is there something you want to say? What is up?

[julie frances lloyd]

You sound angry and want to hurt with words. Why are you upset?

[formflier]

I'm honestly to mad to list them all and how big of a hypocrite she is

I think you have figured out that you don't... .I mean you really really really don't like people that say one thing and do another.

Do I have that about right?

Personally... .hypocrisy burns me as well.  I have found it better to reduce interactions or cease having a relationship with people like that.  There were some that I would try to convince that they were being hypocrites... .It rarely turned out well.

Either way my feelings got hurt, but they seemed to hurt less when I was able to cut ties and move on.

Each relationship is unique... .some are easier to move past.  Can you describe what it is about this relationship... .or relationships that seems to be keeping you stuck?  Same issue... .or different issues with different relationships.

Last thought:  I'll ask again... .what can you do TODAY... .that is extra special for you.  Just because... .

FF

[julie frances lloyd]

I agree with formflier, better than gossiping and hurting people with words.

[statsattack]

If you have ever seen or watch american football I am a combination of Jimmy Johnson ( Dallas Cowboys and Miami Hurricanes) and Bill Belcihick ( New England Patriots). My friend has/had this ability to know how to push the right buttons and calm me down/make me feel better when I am upset.

We had a very gray romantic relationship to say the least. Neither of us felt comfortable dating eachother but had strong connection and chemistry.

[statsattack]

Before she told me she was raped we were perfect with respecting each other boundaries. Afterwards both were awful.

It's not fair that my life has been ruined by lies