Why am I the target

[Loosestrife]

Has anyone ever experienced their BPD partner being in a rage with you, but at the same time able to be nice to others? I'm confused... .

[RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING]

RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members are welcomed to express frustration but must seek constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[Rockylove]

yes... .and the other way around as well.  It's all confusing, but there are many resources that will help you understand.  I'm still learning and hopeful that we can enjoy life... .I just have to keep facts in the forefront of my mind and keep my emotional responses out of discussions.  Keep posting and venting and reading and learning... .it WILL make a difference in your life.

[tjay933]

that is very typical BPD behaviour. they all do it imo. have you done much reading up on BPDs and how they affect relationships? it will help answer a tonne of questions that you probably have and some you didn't even know you had.

you are not alone. you don't deserve it and it isn't your fault.

[EaglesJuju]

I have experienced this as well.  It is a part of an idealization/devaluation process. 

PwBPD can dramatically switch from idealizing someone to devaluing.  Many times a pwBPD will devalue another and switch to a punitive manner because they feel that the person is not there for them enough (meeting a pwBPD's needs on demand) or the perception that the person may reject/abandon them. 

[Loosestrife]

I've been reading about mood/personality disorders and most of it says BPDs /BPs can't control their emotions. It just doesn't ring true  if they can be unkind to me and then kind to another person in the same moment. It seems quite controlled which is odd... .I'm starting to think this is not mental illness and just plain evil... .

[Cat Familiar]

I've been reading about mood/personality disorders and most of it says BPDs /BPs can't control their emotions. It just doesn't ring true  if they can be unkind to me and then kind to another person in the same moment. It seems quite controlled which is odd... .I'm starting to think this is not mental illness and just plain evil... .

It sure feels like being the recipient of evil when it's directed at you.

The first time I was fully aware of this simultaneous nastiness/politeness was as an adult, having lunch with my mother in a restaurant. She was raging at me, then when the server would approach, she was sickeningly sweet to her. I probably had experienced this a lot as a child, but this was the first time the odd behavior manifested so clearly before my eyes as an adult.

My husband can be furious with me, then answer the phone and joke and laugh with the caller.

It is mentally ill, that's for sure. They're compartmentalizing their responses.

[MaroonLiquid]

Because we are very close to them and know their struggles, they can't hide it.  Also I think they believe that because we love them we will put up with it.  That is why boundaries are so important.  One thing thats very important to pwBPD is "appearances" and so they have to look "together" to keep up the charade.

[Hope26]

Hi Loosestrife,

There are lots of good responses here; as others have said, we've all been through this, I think.  I really resonated with what MaroonLiquid said about them thinking we will put up with it because we love them.  In other words, it's a sick form of taking us for granted.  The tools mentioned on this board can be very effective.  The biggest thing for me was to stop 'JADEing'; instead, I learned to let the rages affect me less, to just nod and go quiet, and to let his words boomerang back to him.  I think that must have really jolted his belief that he could continue to manipulate my emotions.  Whether it was a wake-up call, or due to my actions at all, I'll never know: but his rages have virtually stopped now.  It's been so many months since he's thrown one at me that I've lost count, and they used to be very frequent.  He says he has learned to meditate effectively to better control his emotions.  He still has a hair-trigger temper and very little tolerance for stress, but at least I am not getting raged at these days, and that has made for a huge improvement in our relationship.  So there is hope.

[Loosestrife]

Thanks all, it's kinda a relief to know it's not just me going through this as sometimes I feel like I'm the one with the problem. Compartmentalising is so clever, it sometimes makes me question the illness! Boundaries are important, although I worry it's too late to reinforce them once they have been broken. I will look up the JADEing technique. 

[maxsterling]

Oh yeah, I know what you are talking about  .  My wife sometimes will be in full rage mode, and suddenly "turn it off" when others come over.  That confused the hell out of me.

But I have since learned that it takes a tremendous amount of work to "turn it off".  It's basically a survival mechanism - she's learned that if she doesn't turn it off at least for a short while, worse things will happen.  And usually, she crumbles after awhile, and the cracks show to everyone.

I've also learned that sometimes when I think she is only upset with me, she is usually upset with everyone, I just am unaware of it.  That means by the time she has picked a fight with me, she has already picked a fight with her dad, her friends, and others.  I just was not aware of it.

She also admits she takes things out on me that are not about me.  So, someone else gets her all worked up, and then I come home from work and get the brunt of it.  This may be the case with you, too, where you are the target, yet the pwBPD is really mad at someone else.

And also, I have learned that pwBPD tend to paint one white while painting another black.  My wife does this.  She will paint one friend black, and the next week she is back to being buddies with the friend she had previously demonized.  They need an ally at all times.  So, if the pwBPD is truly mad at you, he/she will make things look good with everyone else to reinforce the idea that you are the one with the problem.

[Michelle27]

I have spoken with my husband about this.  I never understood how he could be so cruel to me and then turn on the charm with everyone else.  He was able to hang others' drywall, fix their cars and help people move and help them clean out their garages, but he couldn't pick up a broom or clean up the kitchen after I cooked a meal. He could be full out raging at me, screaming, insulting etc. and then the phone rings and he is nice to whoever is on the other end. 

He explains it that he felt like a freight train took him over and I was the only "safe" person he could vent his overwhelming feelings with.  I hear the words, and intellectually understand with all the reading I've done why this is possible, but I just can't seem to get past the pain of being his doormat for so long. He is working hard on his issues (or doing a really good job making me think he is... .) by signing himself up for CBT classes, trying to get into a DBT program and asking for a referral to a psychiatrist.  By the same token, I'm seeing concerning things, much more mirroring than I've ever seen with him, including the early amazing "honeymoon" years.  I like wine, and he's always hated it.  But now, he likes it and enjoys making it with me.  In 14 years, he showed no interest in exercising but because I'm training for some 5K's, he's decided to start.  I have lost 140 lbs over the past 3 years and he decided to lose the 40 that he needed to lose.  I've followed a music group for 7 years.  He was irritated by them, or rather my interest in them.  But now he wants to come with me to concerts.  I think he's trying to engulf me because he knows he pushed me away for a long time, and he doesn't want to lose me.  No different than making me the target. 

Sorry, went off on a tangent on my own crap... .LOL

[Notwendy]

My H has given me the ST while conversing with the kids. It isn't good for kids to see this, but to me, it is better that I am the target not them. Growing up, I guess, we were all potential targets for mom. My H is good to the kids.

Once, he was in some foul mood, and we went to get gas. A female co-worker was there, putting gas in her car, and he was Mr. Charming. It's strange- but he would accuse me of doing this- not showing any "interest" in him, yet being nice and talkative to others. I think we all do this to some extent- we have a certain politeness with co workers and familiarity with family, but rage/ST and then charming is extreme.

Michelle, you mentioned your H trying to get you back in another post and some of what your H is doing is similar to what my H did as well- suddenly become interested in my interests when before he was not. My H is also irritated by my interest in a musician, or if I mention that I think an actor is attractive. It's strange to me that he takes it as anything serious. I hope though, that your H's efforts could lead him to make some changes for the better.

[Loosestrife]

Why are we putting up with being doormats? There is obviously a lot of insight into these behaviours by us and our partners. I'm sorry you are all going through this as well.

Michelle27- don't apologise, this is the forum to let things out. Well done for losing the weight and getting fit! I need to do the same so thank you for the inspiration

My partner is now being nice to me as I have have made it clear that I have had enough and i have said its not good for me walking in eggshells. I know this is not for my benefit. I am sad it's come to this. I read another post about a man storming off and leaving his girlfriend stranded. If our partners love us then why do they hurt us? Perhaps us sticking around just reinforces the behaviours... .

[Notwendy]

You are correct in that what we tolerate reinforces the behaviors. Having done some work on co-dependency, I have found that some of the behaviors I have mentioned- raging, ST, have diminished or stopped.

However, by not tolerating them, I also have to take the risk that my H will get angry, or leave the r/s and/or find someone else who will. One thing to consider is our own abandonment fears, and other fears, like the fear of their anger. Do we put up with this because of fears?

When we assert that we will not tolerate being treated poorly, there can be consequences. They can get angry, test the boundaries, ( extinction burst ) or leave. If there is any risk of physical abuse, that has to be considered too.

For every behavior, there is a payoff- even if there are costs to the behavior. I had to consider several- in context of how I was raised. There were payoffs for appeasing my BPDmother. It kept the peace, Dad was happy. Risks felt very dangerous as a child. If mom was angry, she's get dad into it. So, a loved ones anger was terrifying to me. I also wanted to protect my children. So these were the motives for tolerating bad behavior to keep the peace,  but that also reinforced it.

Ironically, when we tolerate being treated poorly, we abandon ourselves. For me, this led to depression and burn out and I decided I had had enough. Through counseling, 12 step codepemdency, the tools here, I learned different ways to respond to behaviors. The ST was the roughest. I remember calling my sponsor in tears while she coached me through it. Finally though, it didn't work for him, because, I didn't emotionally react to it. He no longer got the payoff of my emotional distress and focus on him when he did it, so the behavior decreased. I also have to face the risk that his discomfort with my new behaviors ( not managing it by being a target) could lead him to make other choices- like leaving or finding someone new . I also considered that there was thankfully no history of physical abuse when he got angry. Lastly, it was easier to do this when the kids were a bit older, as they were more self sufficient, and he does not rage at them.

The person who projects, blames, rages, is less likely to change because they project their bad feelings out of them. The person who does not do this is more likely to be aware of their hurt feelings, and so can be more motivated to change, but it has to be a motivation for ones self and not dependent on others. If the other person changes, it will be because they find that their old behaviors don't work for them. However, what new behaviors they choose are up to them.

[Loosestrife]

Thanks Notwendy. I'm burnt out. I think it may be easier to train a lion!

[Notwendy]

I understand the burnout. When we are burned out and worn out, it is sometimes easier to take the payoff of the peace of appeasement. The other side of that is that it feeds the lion.

For me, personal change occurred when I stopped focusing on trying to change my H, and trying to take care of me. It was taking baby steps, and not always linear. Sometimes I still choose the payoff of keeping the peace, but I'm aware of it. It's also about choosing which boundary to focus on. My H has drawn the line in the sand over doing dishes. If you ask him, he says he's a modern guy who is willing to help, but in action, he balks at that. However, not being raged at is more important to me, so I will focus on that. I can't make him do anything- he has the choice to rage or not. However, it doesn't work so well for him to get what he wants now that I don't respond to his rages by trying to appease him.

So pick a behavior. Your wife rages at you and is nice to other people. That's her choice. The reason you are the target is that you are more intimate with her. It is the intimate relationships that are most triggering. I get the same thing from my mother. Whenever I have met her friends, they tell me how wonderful she is and how much they like her. When we visit as a family, she is nice and sweet. She will not rage in front of the grandkids. The times that are rougher are when I am alone with her, and there are no witnesses. I manage that by minimizing time alone with her. This is harder to do with a spouse.

What changed in me about my H's rages was that they no longer got to me like they used to. I used to JADE, because the things he said about me, or accused me of doing in a rage were not true and I didn't want him to think these things about me. However, when I was able to get a better sense of myself, I could see that the rages were more projection than truth. The last time he raged sounded so ridiculous. Some things were so absurd to me that I almost started to laugh... ( not a good idea) but they just made no sense to me at the time. This was when I realized they didn't have the effect on me that they used to, but it wasn't because he changed, it was because I changed through a lot of personal work. Now that I am not as reactive to him- the r/s is better too. Not better as in great romantic scenes in the movies, but calmer in general.

Don't try to train the lion... .take care of yourself and in time,  the lion's roars won't feel as menacing.

[Michelle27]

I also spent way too long working on trying to change him and seriously expecting that to help.  When it didn't, I felt constantly stressed and worried, always walking on eggshells waiting for that magical day when he would "get it".  When I started delving into the illness and realized I had inadvertently made things worse with my own actions (JADEing, not validating, etc.) it was a difficult pill to swallow. 

I finally got to the point of needing to take care of myself and that changed my focus. It also got me to detach and start putting an end to the codependent nature of the relationship.  I'm not saying that it's been a complete cure to the walking on eggshells but it most definitely helped. 

[Loosestrife]

Thanks both, good advice -  I will stop trying to take the lion and concentrate on me. I need to have a think about what life will be like in 10 years time if I carry on like this.

Things have changed again this weekend - I was  told that I am the trigger due to the attachment so we can not have an intimate relationship at the moment. I don't know when we will see each other again apart from phone contact as we are not living together. I feel like the control is always in my partners lap.

[Notwendy]

The control is usually in the hands of the one with the least desire in a r/s. Few people probably have equal desire for each other at all times in any r/s- and I imagine that emotionally healthy people can work this out without the element of power or control.

Sometimes I think it is human nature to desire something that you can't have, which makes the push pull somewhat irresistable. Still, if she puts on the brakes and you want to move forward, then she's got the brakes regardless.

In actuality, we can not control anyone but ourselves. Someone else can make a decision- even an unfair one, and our only choice is to choose what we are going to do about it. It happens with all relationships. If someone said something really nasty to you, you would not be able to make that person stop talking. Your choices are to say something back, walk away, ignore it.

Your partner tells you she is not interested in intimacy. Yes, it is true that she has established this condition in the r/s, but she can not control your response to that. It's understandable that you are not happy about this, but still you are in control of how you respond.

[Teresa Lynne]

Hey there,  There are wonderful tools you can use to lessen the escalating emotional problems that are unique to someone with BPD. It IS different in a romantic partner because of the intense triggers that are associated with abandonment. Also, your partner has a deep core of shame which is the most psychically painful experience you can imagine.  When you see that behavior, it is a shame trigger. When we are the most unlovable is when we are in need of the most love.  An attack is an anguished cry for love.  In moments of dysregulation, no one has access to their rational minds. It is designed that way.  Fight/flight and freeze are there to save your life when you are in actual danger.  The same system is activated whether you are in actual danger or not when your brain and nervous system are on constant high alert.   When you have a highly active amygdala(emotional center of brain) and everything is a threat, that is what is being reacted to.  There is no ability to ask for what you need in a healthy way and getting needs met is what we humans are constantly trying to achieve. Never mind having a shamed core that doesn't believe you deserve it.  In terms of what BPD sufferers are like, they are all different like everyone else. Some blame others, some blame themselves and will always apologize for breathing your air.  Everyone is different.  Learning and practicing validation and mindfulness skills are a huge key to

having things improve. Figuring out what you want in the relationship and what works to get it.  Not what should work. What works.  Effectiveness is the bedrock of everything.