Thinking about breaking up.

[Confused484]

Hello everyone. Me and my girlfriend are currently 19 years old, she's been diagnosed with BDP but is not under any treatment. She lives close to another city in a ranch with her parents (she lives extremely isolated, because of the distance, and since her parents work she stays alone with nothing to do pretty much every weekday ), and we are currently seeing each other only during the weekends.
Thing is, I believe I am in an abusive relationship, and can't see any way to deal with it. I've talked seriously with her about breaking up through text messages this week. She refused and said she'd try her best to be "the perfect girlfriend", which she has actually been doing so far. However, I'm not sure if these changes are real, and from what I've read, they rarely are.
She's trying to isolate me from my parents, and has done the same with the few friends I had, basically replacing them with her friends.
Temper tantrums when she doesn't get her way are frequent, and after much thought, I've realised I do not have the emotional framework to deal with this in a way that is healthy for both.

I am not a naturally 'lovey-dovey' person, and while I care about her a lot, this has always been a beacon of criticisms (along with my clothes, my physical appearance, my way to deal with things...). Since I am a very passive person, I ended up simply accepting these criticisms and tried to make up for it in other ways; for example, I made a personal sacrifice and paid a makeup class for her, but we fought when I suggested she use some of her monthly allowance (usually spent on clothing) on some makeup, for the classes.

Overall, this has been more of a venting session than anything else, but I'd really like to hear some tips on how to proceed with the breakup.
Thank you in advance!

[PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES]

PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members may appear frustrated but they are here for constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[Gemsforeyes]

Dear Confused484-

Welcome to our community.  You’ll find very good support here and a ton of resources to assist in understanding the evolution of these relationships, as well as communication tools.

For someone so young, you sound pretty insightful, clear and in touch with your needs and feelings to me.  I truly admire that... these qualities and your awareness will most definitely serve you well in life.

It is distressing when our partners with BPD work to isolate us from our family and friends.  And it does happen a LOT.  Unless pwBPD do a lot of hard work on their issues, their behavior sadly doesn’t improve.  You may see tiny spots of the “original” person here and there, but the abuse continues and can tend to worsen and intensify the closer the relationship becomes.   Over time, the emotional abuse can wear you down, really wear you down.

You’re asking about the way forward toward breaking up.  My advice is that you speak honestly that because of who “I AM” this relationship is not working for me.  And won’t work.  Use the word “I”.   “I am” the wrong man for you.  “I need” to focus on other things right now.  “I am” not in a position to be in a full relationship at this time.  I am sorry.  I care about you, but I am not able to invest emotionally in this relationship.

If you can break up by talking on the phone, that’s good.  You’ll save yourself having to deal with a tantrum in person.  If she blows a gasket, be prepared to stand your ground.  Know what you want and why you’re breaking up.  The sooner, the better.  Make NO promises about the future.  Try NOT to criticize her.  You’re doing this FOR you.

And then... if you are a social media person, take a break for awhile (my very STRONG advice).  Try to respect her heightened emotions and don’t trigger them by posting that you’re out having fun.  If she sees that, she’ll take that horribly and very personally.

What do you think?

And Confused... this is a very safe space for you to say anything you wish to say, so feel free.  Also, please be open with your parents and your friends about what you’re experiencing.  You need and deserve their support as you move through this.

If you are able to move to the breakup, don’t be surprised if you back down and reunite.  Many of our members return to their relationships several times before they’re able to exit permanently.  There is NO shame in that.

Please stay with us.

Warmly,
Gemsforeyes

[Confused484]

Thank you, gemsforeyes!
I believe I am unable to break up over phone, since she has threatened suicide and self-harm  (and actually went through it once), and since she lives in an isolated community, it would take a while for police/social services to show up.
About standing my ground, I am wracked with guilt, since she is in that "sweet, caring person" stage; however, as you said, the abuse will continue, and I simply cannot focus on such a relationship that tanks my finances ( what little money I have, anyway), my relationships, and self-worth. Not an easy choice, but a logical one.
Thank you again for your help and kind words! I needed, most of all, someone to tell me that I am not wrong in doing this, I think. We've been together for 6+ months now, and when I think about the ways I've let her slowly gain control on me, I shudder.
Hopefully I'll be able to go through this, and while I haven't had much experience, I'll be looking forward to do what I can to help some individuals here!

[Gemsforeyes]

Oh boy, okay... this provides some color around why you’re feeling quite scared to exit the relationship.

Are you saying that she made a prior suicide attempt or engaged in self-harm (cutting for example)?   Did she do this in reaction to something you said or did or was this before you met and became involved?  Can you provide some clarity?  Does she threaten you with suicide or self-harm ever / frequently?

After this episode of either suicide attempt or self-harm, what strategies were used , i.e. therapy to address her issues?

Do you know her parents/ her family?

I’d like you to explore this site over the next few days; there are protocols around suicide ideation and how to behave around that.

Please DO understand that suicide and self-harm threats are controlling tactics and emotional abuse.  Has she ever acted physically abusive toward you?  When you do breakup, use care to do this in a pretty public place, where you can be seen quite readily if she lashes out at you.  And let someone close to you know when and where this is happening.

With this level of abuse, it is vital that you shine light on this with your parents and closest friends.  Their support is important for you.  This is a frightening experience to feel responsible for... I know, my friend.  My sister subjected me to her suicide threats for years when I was in my late teens through my 30’s.

You DO have experience, Confused.  And with what you’ve learned and WILL learn through this experience, you will add greatly to this forum and to every person you encounter through life.  Many of us have suffered for years in relationships and didn’t realize we were being abused until something drastic happened.  I believe you’re an incredible young man.

Warmly,
Gemsforeyes

[Confused484]

As far as I know (we haven't talked much about this topic, since it seems to be an issue), she has had multiple "suicide attempts" (climbing on high places, going to bridges with the intent to jump off, etcetera), and she practices self-harm during particularly stressful moments. These happened before we got involved, and she's practiced self-harm once (to my knowledge), past week when I threatened to break up. I've seen one suicide attempt, and as I said, I do not have the emotional framework to deal with such situations; we were lucky a biker saw us and thought we were having a fight.
She has threatened me with suicide two times or so in the past, all times on situations revolving around abandonment.
I know her parents, but their relationship is really stranged (even though they live together); her parents don't really understand her condition, and this adds another complex layer to this mess.
I am planning on breaking up this Sunday, since she will arrive here at about midday on Saturday, we'll go to a friend's birthday party, and then she will sleep over. My parents would be home as well, and they are somewhat aware of her condition and the problems this may cause.
From what I've seen in this forum, I have it quite easy ( a great support network, a somewhat stable mental health, her case doesn't seem TOO serious if it weren't her other disorders...)
I feel this immense freedom whenever I think about getting my own life back, but this seems a problem that won't go away too easily.

[Gemsforeyes]

Hi Confused-

I’m so sorry you have to deal with this, and very glad you do have the support of your parents.

A word of caution, and I sincerely apologize if I’m being too presumptuous... please use care with physical intimacy on Saturday, including kissing.  If you’re intimate on Saturday and break up on Sunday, that will feel like a complete betrayal.

Do any of her girlfriends live in your town?  I’m asking this in case you want company (a good idea) when you drive her home, or will someone be picking her up?

Please do read through the suicide threat protocol.  IF she issues any threat (suicide or self-harm) during this process, use no hesitation in contacting authorities.  None whatsoever.

The bottom line to understand in these relationships is that the ONLY behavior we can control is our own.  We cannot “fix” another person nor can we control their actions, reactions or behavior.  No matter her reaction to what you feel you MUST do for your own wellbeing (and hers), you are NOT responsible for her reaction.

Our hope would be that this will prompt her to seek the help she needs.  You don’t deserve to shoulder this type of abuse.  And hopefully she will wake up and see that with proper therapy and work she can be in relationships without threatening people.  Her condition is not your fault.  You didn’t cause this problem and you cannot heal her.  We cannot love someone to wellness.

Please keep talking this through.

Warmly,
Gems

[Gemsforeyes]

Hi again Confused -

Sorry to double tap you here, but there are 2 sections I’d like you to read.  These are topics you may also want to share with your parents if you feel that might be helpful for them.

The first addresses suicide ideation, plus there is a link for a hotline.  You may get some advice there.

The second section about FOG is a must read.  Many people who first arrive at our site are in the midst of FOG (Fear, Obligation, Guilt).

I’m sorry I cannot link right to these areas... so go to the Groups black tab, then scroll down to “Tools and Workshops” and tap that.

Scroll down to Section 3: CRISIS MANAGEMENT

Scroll down to Section 5.09 :  FOG (Fear, Obligation, Guilt)

Reading those two sections will provide good information for you.

Warmly,
Gems

[Confused484]

Hey gems, no need to worry about the double tap. I'm currently reading through those right now,  and had an argument with her (while I was replying to you yesterday, and this morning too.) She wanted to come here today, even though our agreement from now on was Saturday-Monday. I said that it wasn't possible, since that was not the agreement (my parents are very strict with this schedule since she has FUBARed any and all agreements we tried to make in the past with "exceptions" and imaginary problems), and she flipped out a bit, accused me and my parents of not paying enough attention to her, and later tried to tantalize me by saying she'd follow the schedule if I didn't go out on Fridays. I said that this was becoming an abusive relationship (even though it already is), and she said she knew, but needed some time to "work things out" and that I had to "bear it if I loved her, until she had better self-esteem"

Crisis averted, this morning (7AM sharp) she sends me a message right as I was getting ready to work, saying she talked with her parents and that the best solution is for her to actually come on Fridays and leave on Sundays. Thing is, I had to communicate my parents on this last-moment change, and they were (understandably) quite mad.
During these arguments, I expressed multiple times my desire to cut loose, and she just ignored it.
I know she will not change, since she hasn't in over 6 months, and the problem isn't her way of dealing with things, but her whole mentality.
Thing is, she'll come today, and I am a mess psychologically speaking.
If anything, these arguments just convince me more and more that we are not supposed to be together, but I need her to understand this.

[Cat Familiar]

I understand that you’re planning on ending the relationship. I’m moving your thread to the Bettering board. There you will learn strategies that can help keep things calm and safe as you navigate the ending of your relationship.

[Confused484]

Thank you, Cat Familiar! Sorry, I thought the Bettering board was for people who had already broken up and were dealing with the aftermath.

[Gemsforeyes]

Hi Confused.

You don’t need to apologize for where you posted.  There would be reasons to post either on the Conflicted or Bettering boards.  Simply a matter of opinion.  The important thing is that you’re here.

Okay, had to look up FUBAR (got that loud and clear!); so thanks for the education.  I love learning new acronyms.

Your parents are obviously not “happy” (nor are you) because she has busted through a solid boundary and taken away the peace of an entire weekend.  Interesting that your GF demands not only your attention, but your parents’ attention as well.  She is also placing a chokehold on your activities when you’re not together.  Not good, my friend.  Not good.

I’m not sure if you’re going to be able to play this through until Sunday.  You’re ALLOWED to do what you feel is best for you.  She likely won’t accept your decision.  She will not “understand” why you’re breaking up with her.  PwBPD do NOT take rejection well.  So you’ve got to work with the “I” statements we discussed yesterday. 

Regardless of whatever threats she may issue, you’re not responsible for her reaction.  You cannot control her emotions. Try to wrap your arms around that notion.  I am so sorry you are faced with this, Confused.  No one deserves to be abused and threatened to stay in a relationship.  Do you see how skewed her view of “love” is?

And no, if she is not in intensive therapy, sadly there will be no change in her behavior, regardless of how many promises she makes.  PwBPD will use magic words constantly.  Only actions count.

If you feel you’re not prepared to breakup this weekend, then take some emotional space this coming week and do it next weekend.  This experience needs to feel SAFE for you. 

We’re here.  Please Make sure your support is in place.  And please know, you’re stronger than you think.

Warmly,
Gemsforeyes

[Confused484]

Okay, so she arrived, we went to a friend's birthday pizza night, and before that she asked if I'd really break up with her. I basically told her everything I was feeling, and she said it was her turn to make me happy, and that I've done so much for her.

 She promised many many times, and while I know it isn't gonna change much, she's been acting in a remarkably responsible way (bought the sunday bus pass already, did not criticize me for my choice of clothes, said of her own volition that she was being abusive and shouldn't try to limit my outings and monitor my messages and whatnot)

I'm still planning another breakup talk this Sunday, but I'd like to make sure this really is standard BPD behaviour and not a genuine personal evolution.

Deep down, I guess I know she won't really change, but when I try to convey this to her, she says I need to motivate her in this and give her a last chance.

What's been scaring me the most is that she seems to be pushing herself for real to be the best person she can; I think I'm just so scared of getting hurt again that even if she managed to overcome all this, I still wouldn't want to follow through with the relationship.

I know it's impossible to say such things, especially with such a shallow view of the relationship and on such a short notice, but I'd like to understand how I can hold my ground and make sure my decisions are final instead of being swayed by her.

[Gemsforeyes]

It is not your responsibility to “motivate” her to behave better.  That’s a heavy burden, and not one that belongs to you.  If she truly wants to effect long-term change in herself and how she deals with her emotions, there is therapy available.  She needs to take initiative.  Not YOU.  This is NOT on you.  And though she may not understand this, she is placing an UNFAIR responsibility directly on your shoulders.

Regardless of whether she had received a BPD diagnosis, her harmful behaviors and the abuse she carries within your relationship have caused great pain, hurt to you.  You are seriously questioning whether you want to stay in this relationship.  A wise question.

She won’t be able to “change” for you.  Because what this means is that the moment she “senses” you’ve “disappointed her in any way, BOOM!  All bets are off and her emotions and accusations will take over.

If she’s serious about changing and healing herself, only intensive therapy for HERSELF will matter.

And standing your ground?  Look back on the “I” statements... 

“I” am not in a position to be in a full relationship at this time”. 

“I” need to focus on other things for the foreseeable future.”

 “I” cannot give you the time and attention you deserve and want at this point in the relationship.”

All of these statements are honest, are they not?  There is NOTHING untrue in what you’d be saying, and you’re saying this without accusations or character assaults on her.

You have a right to step away.  You have a right to honor your wishes.

Warmly,
Gems

[Confused484]

Okay, we talked again this afternoon. First of all, she is very cuddly when everything is fine, and she's been noticing I haven't been receptive, so this triggered the talk (both talks, honestly).
I told her again that it was her behaviour that caused all this, and that I didn't think I loved her anymore. She said she could understand that, since she's been in the same situation with me, and that she is quite aware of her behaviour, but hadn't found anyone that was "worth the effort to change". She then promised me again that she'd change (and to be fair, she has been doing fine).

The last thing we talked about was that I needed to forget the past, and give her one last chance to "make me happy". I think I'll try one last time tomorrow, and be a bit more forceful (without being rude, of course).
I just know I need to end this, while I still have the will and mental wellbeing to do so.

The relationship with my parents is quite strained too, because they were hoping I'd end this.

[Gemsforeyes]

Hey Confused-

Don’t worry about your parents right now.  They likely don’t understand much about the complexities of being in relationships with pwBPD.  All they want for you is your happiness and calmness; and they’ve likely seen you stressed like never before.

Regarding your BPDgf telling you to “forget” the past... this is dangerous ground, especially when your “past” is so recent.  I once did a post called the “Delusion of Forgive and Forget”.  It’s pretty loaded.

Finally, it’s good that she’s acknowledging some behaviors, but still blind that she’s pointing to YOU as the “reason” to change.  Until she takes responsibility and does this for HERSELF and HER future, it’s futile.  All responsibility will fall on you.  Please see that.  Any success she has will be “due to you”; and any “failures” or RAGES will be your FAULT.  Unless she enters therapy and works on herself FOR herself; and acknowledges that, it’s just empty words.  DBT therapy has shown good success for pwBPD.

Now a true history.  My stepson (I was his s-mom since he was 5 and we were CLOSE)... wonderful young man and now a prisoner to a BPD wife.  He was 20 when they met.  They’ve been together almost 12 years now and he’s stuck.  I had become pretty close to her, too.  I had seen some odd behavior, but I didn’t know about BPD at the time. 

At any rate, he had been forewarned, with her jealously, demands, possessiveness.  She had been on birth control (the kind implanted in the arm).  The wedding date was sort of loosely set and he was having second thoughts (6 months prior) .  All of a sudden she announces she’s pregnant.  He was STUNNED.  Deer in the headlights stunned, even after the baby was born. So... she had secretly removed the birth control to manipulate him into going through with the wedding.  And that was that.  And then she did it again.  And now she did it a third time.  So there he is, with three kids under 4 and a wife who controls every breath he takes. He’s no longer “allowed” to call me.  I have lost my son and it’s completely beyond my control.  Losing contact with my s-son was way harder than losing my marriage to his NPD father.

So Confused.  It is time to think ONLY of yourself, your future.  You can have compassion without taking responsibility.  You did NOT cause her illness and you cannot “fix” her or love her to wellness.

Warmly,
Gemsforeyes

[Confused484]

 Hey gems,

First of all, I'd like to say I'm terribly sorry for your situation.
I cannot even begin to imagine how hard it must be.

Things went wrong, somewhat. We arrived quite late in the night, and I wanted to sleep (I'm going to college, after all), while she wasn't in the mood. Because of that, a small fight erupted where she ran the full gamut of BPD behaviours:
Anger, threats, etcetera. Keep in mind this was quite late in the night, so there wasn't much I could do except keep her here. It might not fall on me to take care of her, but I still couldn't in full conscience let her leave alone in the streets at night.

She said I didn't even give her time to change, and a lot of other things I'll talk about a bit more later, since she is here and I need to get this post out quickly.

We then talked a bit, and I mentioned that she needed to change for herself, and made a small list of what she needed to change. I gave her a grace period of about a month, even though I do know she will not change and will likely do something before that.

My current plan is to talk with one of our few trusted friends, explain the situation, and actually give her a couple of weeks to try to change, hopeless as it may be. When she wakes up, we'll go and talk with my parents; I'll explain the full situation to them later.

After I reach out for this friend, I'll  keep him posted in case something happens. I know I am only doing this out of FOG, but it is true I was ill-prepared for this weekend and needed to work harder to create an environment that would not cause such things.

I'll keep pretending for a bit more, I just hope my parents can understand the whole thing. They're terribly disappointed (I seem to only pick girls with mental issues; that is part of the reason I want to spend some time alone and working out on my issues of trying to fix people before trying again).

[Gemsforeyes]

I’m really sorry she had an episode last night.  When they don’t do the work, and even when they do, episodes are bound to happen.

Thank you for your compassion around my s-son.

Take it easy on yourself today and we’ll speak later or tomorrow about your plan.  We did think that perhaps this weekend may be too soon.

I am thinking however, since you bring it up, that your true reason really IS that you’re NOT prepared for a relationship at this point; and have work to do yourself.  She will need to accept that.  It’s unfair and uncalled for, for anyone to ever question another person’s feelings.  And if this is how you FEEL, this is how you feel.  Full stop.

Perhaps in the meantime, read through the section on FOG again, and perhaps share that with your parents.  It may help them understand you better.  I understand how difficult this is...

Warmly,
Gemsforeyes

[Confused484]

It is okay, we talked at length and I gave her a one month time limit. You are right that I am not prepared for a relationship, in any way (emotionally, financially, etcetera). This is her last chance, though, and I'll make sure everything is ready for the breakup if I see I am still not happy after that time. 

I believe talking with people here will keep me grounded and alert to signs the relationship may be turning abusive again. From what I've read, it is easy to lose sense and perspective of things if you don't have a support network.

Thank you very very much for your help, gemz! I'll be sure to keep in touch

[once removed]

breakup threats are an effective way to motivate someone with abandonment fears in the short term.

in the long term, they are toxic.

they erode trust. they pressure someone to change themselves just to appease us. often times, a person in that position will do just the little bit required to keep the relationship going.

you need to realistically evaluate this relationship on both ends. her limitations, and yours.

shes promising change. i dont doubt her sincerity. i do suspect that it has a great deal to do with appeasing you and saying the right words to keep the peace. the question is really whether or not she has the positive motivation to improve for both herself and the relationships sake.

youre telling her you dont love her anymore, and what she has to do in order to save the relationship. you may be trying to send her a well intentioned wake up call. what youre communicating tells her that shes defective, that you have one foot and a half out of the relationship, and that the bare minimum will keep you invested.

its a losing strategy, that guarantees further erosion of trust, and, ultimately, your relationship.

bottom line, dont threaten a breakup or hold it over someones head to motivate them to change. be all in, or be done.

which way do you lean? what do you want to do?

[Confused484]

Good afternoon, once removed!

Yes, I am quite aware it is a toxic way, I've been in the same position in the past. However, I truly wasn't trying to tell her that she is "defective"; I am fully aware of my part in this problem. However, I only agreed to this because she begged me to, and wanted to wander the streets of the city alone in the middle of the night. If this discussion had blown up in the afternoon, or in the morning, I'd have more ways to deal with her reaction and it wouldn't have come to this.

I don't doubt her sincerity either, but fact is: she "changed" for a whole two days before being abusive again. What I realised, and what I need her to realise as well, is that this is not fair for anyone. I shouldn't need to change, and she shouldn't either.

It is not something I'd have done, especially considering her issues, but I did not feel like I had any other choice in this scenario.

Anyway, as I said, she's back to her old self. We had one hell of an argument about two days back, when I told her I was thinking of going on a trip with my parents next holiday.
She got terribly mad, and said she wouldn't allow it, and wouldn't give up spending time with me. She then said I'd have to buy her a gift, or pay her the fare so she could spend the holiday with her friends on a party.

I'm still mad about this, and she noticed; therefore, she's terribly clingy and this is, unfortunately, choking me out.

[once removed]

However, I truly wasn't trying to tell her that she is "defective"; I am fully aware of my part in this problem.

i understand. im speaking in terms of how she might see it. a lot boils underneath the surface for our partners that we dont necessarily see. when things get rocky, its amazing, the different pages both parties can be on.

Anyway, as I said, she's back to her old self.

with borderline traits come storms. ideally, and over time, they become less frequent or less intense, and we learn to weather them better.

but there will be storms. if you get caught up in trying to anticipate them, or lulled into thinking everything is finally hunky dory, youll get lost. realistic expectations are critical.

It is not something I'd have done, especially considering her issues, but I did not feel like I had any other choice in this scenario.

ultimatums, at times, may be necessary in romantic relationships. but i think the picture may be bigger.

a "one months notice" may motivate her to swing wildly back and forth between being on her best behavior, and the fear of losing you. in the mean time, resentment is likely building.

fear is a powerful (if not ideal) motivator, particularly in people who live their lives governed by them, for better and for worse. with the one months notice, even with best of intentions, you have watered that seed of fear. youll see more extreme good behavior and more extreme bad behavior.

this is why it would be better to either be all in or all out. we can help you either way. but its important, best you can, to commit to a path.

Anyway, as I said, she's back to her old self. We had one hell of an argument about two days back, when I told her I was thinking of going on a trip with my parents next holiday.
She got terribly mad, and said she wouldn't allow it, and wouldn't give up spending time with me. She then said I'd have to buy her a gift, or pay her the fare so she could spend the holiday with her friends on a party.

howd you take it? howd you respond?