Oh Gosh What to do Now?

[Parents! Get help here!]

I believe my daughter may be arrested.  This will be a first for her.  Apparently she broke into some friends apartment and stole her "stuff".  The girl knows because her computer has a motion detector camera on it and caught my daughter.  The girl also said that a local business camera caught her images of my daughter as well. 

My daughter has lied and stolen from us-her family members for years... . I've had a feeling that it was only a matter of time before it escalated.

I'm so distraught over it that I feel sick.  However, at the same time - if she is arrested - I think I will leave her there - at least for a while - hoping that it will make her "see the light" maybe... .

What would you all do?  I'm so torn :'(

[ConflictedxAMillion]

I believe my daughter may be arrested.  This will be a first for her.  Apparently she broke into some friends apartment and stole her "stuff".  The girl knows because her computer has a motion detector camera on it and caught my daughter.  The girl also said that a local business camera caught her images of my daughter as well. 

My daughter has lied and stolen from us-her family members for years... . I've had a feeling that it was only a matter of time before it escalated.

I'm so distraught over it that I feel sick.  However, at the same time - if she is arrested - I think I will leave her there - at least for a while - hoping that it will make her "see the light" maybe... .

What would you all do?  I'm so torn :'(

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[griz]

Conflicted:  I don't know if this will help but sometimes as hard as it can be for us we have to allow our children to learn their lesson from the choices they make.  My nonBPD lived with her bf for two years, truly in love.  When things started with DD my older daughter was really struggling with what was going on and got very depressed.  The bf after about 6 months couldn't deal with her depression about what he called was the antics of her spoiled little sister and broke up with her.  She was destroyed and had to come home and live in the chaos of our house on top of this.  She went out one night with friends and had a few drinks and let loose, the problem was that she decided to drive home.  She was pulled over and charged with DUI.  I remember the sick feeling when I got the phone call at 4am.  We had to bail her out and get her an attorney.  A friend of mind who is also an attorney knew a few people and thought she might be able to pull some strings.  In the end we made her go the usual route.  She had to serve community service, attend a program for drunk drivers and it is on her license.  It broke my heart because I knew there was a reason for her drinking and I was so sad for her but in the end what I told her was, "At the end of the day, you made the choice to get behind the wheel of a car and there are consequences for our actions". 

Our BPD kids make bad choices but as hard as it is... . and Gosh it is horrible we need to make them learn from their mistakes if this is the only way they will learn.  Maybe it will be a good wake up call.  But in the meantime very hard for you as her mom. 

Griz

[heronbird]

This is one of the worse things, people with BP going to prison or even being put in a cell for a night, yet it is all so common.

I agree that sometimes we have to let them get on with it, let them learn. Its so horrible though.

Gosh, we never thought our children were going to end up like this. I was only saying to dh, I never even dreamed any of our kids would even get depression. Strange how it turns out. :'(

Its hard to know what I would do. It would depend on the circumstances, I usually have a lot of empathy for my dd and I am quite understanding, sometimes I think I am the only one who really gets her.

Having said that, once she stole two bottles of wine from a store, I didnt have empathy for her then, even though I knew she did it out of desperation.

Griz is right, you would not be human if it didnt affect you, yet you are right it may teach her a lesson that she needs, some of our kids do need to" man up" !

They just dont think of the consequences do they.

All you can do is support her, but dont get her out of the mess, she got herself into it.

Valerie Porr says, dont jump into the problem pool with them, you cant save a drowning swimmer by jumping in. Go get help.

Dont judge her though. I do judge my dd, I am trying to learn not to.

I wouldnt say to her what the hell do you think you were doing, I would say more along the lines of Im really sorry for what you are going through, it must be hell etc that sort of thing.

Keep us posted as to what happens

[griz]

Yes Heronbird a very important point.  I also have never said to my daughter... . look what  you've done or berated her.  I told her that I understood what she was going through and I understood what happened and I was sorry she had to deal with the consequence.  Because that is the truth.  We understand why they might choose to do certain things but we don't have to save them all the time.

I was sitting looking at a photo today of the four of us about 10 years ago.  All hugging and happy,it was sad that it didn't make me smile but made me cry.  Yes, I never thought it would be this way. I don't even know what happened  :'(

Griz

[vivekananda]

Dearest Conflicted what a nightmare for you. As HB said, we never in our wildest dreams thought our lovely baby girls could end up in trouble like this... . we had such hopes for our babies and then they grew up with BPD.

This is what I believe:

Both Griz and HB have wise words for you. Remember validation, remember to try not to be judgemental and don't rescue. Sadly, she needs to accept the consequences for her actions. Our kid's situation is unlike those of a normal kid. A person without BPD can make a mistake and we could move heaven and earth to help them and they would appreciate the mistake they made, appreciate our help and come out of the experience a better person. Unfortunately, I believe it doesn't do for us to rescue our children with BPD. They have really hard lessons to learn in life.

I am so sorry for you and your family and your dd.

Cheers,

Vivek      

[heronbird]

Interestingly enough, my son has BPD, haha, no he has not been diagnosed and he has a job and no depression.

He got a motorbike   We told him not to, he would never listen to us so what happened when he came off it, he broke his knee, was at home for ages (lucky me) He has to pay the consequences. He wont seem to learn either.

I dont think pwBPD seem to really learn, then they blame others or their circumstances, dont you think?

They are a victim, I want to teach my dd that its her choices but she cant seem to see it.

I have just read this book, its so good you would love it, its easy read and true story. I think the guy has BPD, he has been diagnosed with Bipolar when he was younger, he lived in Australia. Now he lives in London.

I might do a thread for people to read this book. The man in it has struggled so so much yet he says its all his choices, he does not blame anyone, it was his choice to live on the streets which led to him getting hurt and meeting horrid people, his fault he got addicted to heroin he ended up with Deep vein Thrombosis and felt invisible, he says homeless people and drug addicts end up invisible.

Sorry, kind of going off subject there.

Book is called, World according to Bob by James Bowen. He finds a cat, the cat helps him come off heroin, amazing book 

[ConflictedxAMillion]

Well, I believe now that dd went into the house and stole drugs... . because the person has not pressed charges, and when I asked dd about it.  She went on to play the victim and it's just a "bunch of junkies ganging up on me."  I believe she is using again but won't admit it.  That same night (before all of this came to light) she came to our house and both my husband and I thought she was on something (even though we didn't say so to each other at the time)... . and we both thought it was more than just pot (which she freely admits to using daily).  So, here we go again with the drugs.

Now we worry about our younger daughter (14) somehow getting caught up in things - i.e. the other night when BPDd was over they went for a walk with the dogs... . and frankly if she's stealing drugs or other stuff from people it's only a matter of time before someone ambushes her and beats her up.  So now we've told the younger daughter that we don't want her to be alone with BPDd at any time.

Ugh!

[vivekananda]

I am so glad you have told you d14 not to be alone with her - sad but so important.

I am very pleased that dd is not being charged.

I am very sorry that she is obviously doing drugs again.

Conflicted it must be so hard for you. It must hurt so much. My heart goes to you and your family. Do you have a 'plan' in your mind for what to do?

Cheers,

Vivek    

[ConflictedxAMillion]

Thanks for all your words of support and understanding.

Viv... . a plan?  I guess I never really thought of a plan.  It's always just been reacting to what she has or hasn't done.  Yes, I say I'm going to do this, that and the other thing... . like not support her financially with her rent and such... . but so far I have failed miserably.  This month however, I am determined to not help financially and let her suffer the consequences of not being responsible.  But other than that, what plan can I put in place?  Do you have any suggestions?

Thanks,

[Thursday]

Hi conflicted,

I'm glad to hear that you won't have the complicated situation of "What to Do" since it seems like your daughter won't be arrested for her theft.

I went back and read your other posts. I can certainly relate as my SD (step-daughter) 22 sounds much like your daughter except there haven't been any boyfriends complicating her situation. When she was 19 her drug abuse was disclosed to us and soon after that came to light she got clean. Her drug of choice was prescription Xanax, obtained illegally and taken in huge quantities almost from the beginning. She was addicted and actively using for about a year and a half although she dabbled with all kinds of other drugs before this and was a pot smoker since 14.

She was stealing from us, lying about her every move but worked through out all of it... . she depended on the job to support the habit but as it got worse and worse she had to steal from us and her grandmother and friends to get her pills everyday.

Her Dad and I have really learned a lot about addiction and how best to cope through al-anon and I recommend this to you as part of a plan.

I take it your DD still lives in an apartment on her own. You are smart to inform your other daughter of possible pit-falls in hanging out with her sister. Vivek  mentioned a plan- I would do what I had to do to keep your BPDDD responsible for her own issues- being cut off financially can bring things to a head pretty quickly. I am taking Vivek s recommendation to come up with a plan as a plan for finding a non-enabling place as quickly as possible. An addict won't get anywhere so long as there is someone enabling them... .

When addiction is a part of a borderline's  problems, it becomes of utmost importance that they get sober... . until they are sober there is really no chance they will work on their other issues. My SD is sober but still has many problems with her life. When she was using all she could focus on was getting high. Now we struggle with her choices about her life but there is an ability for her to hear us, before, no chance, no way.

Al-anon has meetings everywhere and I encourage you to try a few (they recommend trying three different meetings to find a good fit) until you feel at home someplace. It really does help us to reframe our roles in our addicted kids lives. Good luck!

thursday

[pessim-optimist]

Thanks for all your words of support and understanding.

Viv... . a plan?  I guess I never really thought of a plan.  It's always just been reacting to what she has or hasn't done.

Hi Conflicted,

You describe your situation well. That is a common experience of people who have loved ones wBPD. The situation is often chaotic and you get so busy reacting, that you do not have time to think and devise a plan. Let alone implement it.

The key is to detach (find a way to separate ourselves and our life from the chaos). That is the first step.

At the same time, as you learn some of the tools and skills of dealing with a pwBPD, you gain a better perspective of what is happening, AND you have those tools at your disposal to start thinking strategically. You will be better able to see not only where your dd is headed, but also what you can do about her situation proactively, rather than just watch it play out.

On the other hand, you need to realize that the tools and skills aren't a cure. Your dd will still have BPD and you cannot control her actions. You can only be a positive force in her life (it is up to her to either take advantage of it or not). So there are no guarantees. But there IS hope.

  Yes, I say I'm going to do this, that and the other thing... . like not support her financially with her rent and such... . but so far I have failed miserably.  This month however, I am determined to not help financially and let her suffer the consequences of not being responsible.  But other than that, what plan can I put in place?  Do you have any suggestions?

Thanks,

Something is clearly in your way of being able to fullfill your decision. Might it be that it is too much to deal with to start?

I think that starting small with the boundaries is very good, and then continue litttle by little (Some people here call it the baby steps)

I am not sure where you are at on your journey: have you looked at boundaries? It is a rather complex process and a lot of thinking has to be done ahead of time, for us to be ready to set a boundary and to uphold it. If we haven't done the prep work, it may fail miserably and in that case it would be better not to set the boundary in the first place.

Here's a video with Randi Kreger that I like (she also talks about that process in her book The Essential Family guide to BPD):

www.youtube.com/watch?v=85_eYftuv0k

Hope this helps.

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[vivekananda]

hey conflicted, you have had some wise advice here. I wish to rephrase this wisdom differently, telling you the same things that you can do to help you get on top of it.

1) seek support that is face to face. Thurs mentions Al Anon. There may be support groups also through NEA:

National Education alliance for BPD

You may also find your own T helpful, it is worthwhile if you can discuss your concerns with someone you trust, face to face, especially while you are trying to come to grips with the changes you need to make for yourself.

2) continue to learn as much as you can about BPD etc. I found that this parent's board was the best thing for me. I read and participated in every discussion I could so that I could come to grips with what it was all about for me.

3) master the two tools in our tools box: validation and values based boundaries. These are complementary tools that can bring us to a deeper level of understanding for ourselves as well as providing us with the best way to develop our relationships with our loved ones. They are good for us and good for those around us.

Validation: this is discussed in workshops and forums here. This is a good link to an explanation of why it is so important etc:

Understanding Validation in Families - Alan E Fruzzetti PH D

also the book "I Don't Have to Make Everything all Better" by G & J Lundsberg

Boundaries: again this is a constant topic of discussion. This is a link to our workshop on it here:

BOUNDARIES: Upholding our values and independence

also the book:  "Boundaries - when to say yes, how to say no to take control of your life" by H. Cloud and J. Townsend

There are many more resources available to us, but these are enough for the moment... . although... . have you read Valerie Porr's "Overcoming BPD"? This is an excellent primer with chapters on validation and boundaries.

So, what I have done here is write out a plan for you so you can appreciate and develop a plan for your relationship with your dd. I hope it makes sense.

Cheers,

Vivek    

[Rapt Reader]

Hi, ConflictedxAMillion... . All the information you've received here is very good and helpful. Vivek  did a great job of distilling it for you in a good form. I think her idea of getting your daughter to see a Therapist is really good; I would only add that if you could look into a Dual Diagnosis Program for her if possible, it might be better than anything else, at least at first (AA and NA are good follow-ups, and good for now if there is no such DD Program available to her).

My (adult) son was just recently diagnosed with BPD this April 2013, and he'd been through 2 "normal" rehabs (his drug of choice was opiates) in 3 years and then relapsed within 3-4 months both times. In March and April of this year, for 21 days, he finally was admitted to a Dual Diagnosis Program that not only dealt with his drug abuse/addiction issues, but also worked with him intensively for his mental health issues. They are the professionals (Psychiatrists, Psychologists, Social Workers) who saw him 3 times/day every day for 21 days, and gave him his diagnosis of BPD. This was a turning point for him, and he has now been clean and sober for almost 6 months, and is being successfully treated for his BPD.

Are you in a position to find a Program like that? Does she have any type of insurance to cover it? Is she in a place in her head/life where she would be willing to accept that she needs help, and let herself be admitted? I am just so thankful for that facility that I just needed to mention it to you... . I do know that she would need to be willing to admit that she needs to "get better" first, but maybe? Good luck, and Godspeed