I filed for divorce, 18yrs married tomorrow, 7 kids- I am sad

[VIDEO: "What is parental alienation?"]

There have been some of you that have been a source of encouragement these last 5 years on this board since my first post.  I am sad, feel empowered, nervous about the future. 

I requested full custody (not sure if I will get it).  But she has been clinically diagnosed with Paranoid Personality disorder about 5 years ago.  We are requesting a parental custody evaluation. There has been significant parental alienation since moving to an apartment 35 days ago (telling daughter to call me and not attend any more of her volleyball games or my wife will pull her from the team this year, telling daughter not to text me, telling our other younger kids not to sit with me at the school mass but they have to sit with their teacher or they will get in trouble by my wife, blocking me from entering the house). 

This step seemed like the next best step to take.   However this whole situation is sad.  I know many of you have walked these steps already, but it is very hard right now. 

   

[Sluggo]

There have been some of you that have been a source of encouragement these last 5 years on this board since my first post.  I am sad, feel empowered, nervous about the future. 

I requested full custody (not sure if I will get it).  But she has been clinically diagnosed with Paranoid Personality disorder about 5 years ago.  We are requesting a parental custody evaluation. There has been significant parental alienation since moving to an apartment 35 days ago (telling daughter to call me and not attend any more of her volleyball games or my wife will pull her from the team this year, telling daughter not to text me, telling our other younger kids not to sit with me at the school mass but they have to sit with their teacher or they will get in trouble by my wife, blocking me from entering the house). 

This step seemed like the next best step to take.   However this whole situation is sad.  I know many of you have walked these steps already, but it is very hard right now. 

   

[ForeverDad]

I requested full custody (not sure if I will get it).  But she has been clinically diagnosed with Paranoid Personality disorder about 5 years ago.  We are requesting a parental custody evaluation. There has been significant parental alienation since moving... . However this whole situation is sad.  I know many of you have walked these steps already, but it is very hard right now.

We've all been there, done that.  We didn't want the marriage to implode but essentially divorce was forced upon us.  The early days and weeks are especially distressing.  We are here for you.  You can and will recover.

Frankly, you will get better results (eventually) from the court than any early settlement from her.  She's counting on her entitlement as Mother of the Year (MOTY) to start out on top and in charge.  Hopefully you and your lawyer will make every effort to get the best temporary order possible from the very start.  I recall how my lawyer told me to keep quiet at the temp order hearing, whispering, "We'll fix it later."   Nice concept but the divorce took 3 times as long as he had estimated.  Well, I was unable to get the temp order modified.  The court's social worker recommended I get more time.  The custody evaluator's initial report summarized, "Mother cannot share 'her' child but Father can... .Mother should immediately lose temporary custody... ."  Neither professional got the temp order changed midstream.  I didn't get any improvements until two years later in the final decree.  So get the best temp order you can from the very first hearing in court.

Expect her to desperately try to make you look worse than her.  Expect false or distorted allegations of DV, child abuse, child neglect or child endangerment.  At the least she will claim you abandoned her and the children so therefore she's must be in charge and she must have your money.   (Of course, your custody and parenting are a vastly higher priority than the support so make sure court doesn't think you want the time and custody just to avoid or reduce support.)  Be aware.  Beware.

[Sluggo]

Thank you FD. 

[ForeverDad]

I recall that your spouse was trying to block you from attending the children's school and after-school activities, even getting the children involved and threatening to withdraw them from the activities.  Those are definite No-No's.  School should be neutral ground for the parents and children.  Court will back you up on that BUT you have to make sure the court hears that testimony and addresses that sort of issue.  If you or your lawyer let that slide by then it will continue and surely get worse — inaction often encourages the other parent to push the boundaries even more.  I write "that sort of issue" because when that particular tactic is shut down then she will try others.

Also, use that and similar examples to get the temp order to start with you having as much involvement or authority as possible.  If you work and she doesn't, meaning she's the majority time parent, beware that the court will want to put her in charge on the theory that the least amount of changes to parenting is best for the children.  I recall asking my lawyer, "But what if NOT changing the parenting time is what is worse for the children?"  As I said, even if the court wants to keep majority time with her then try to get the order to balance it with you having more than the usual level of parenting/custodial authority.

Yes, I know the court and lawyer will insist "But it's only a temporary order!" but the reality is that with the conflict, confrontations, obstructions and delays then that temp order, if left unchanged the entire time, will end up lasting a year or two, perhaps even more.

And a common frustration expressed here is... .A temp order often morphs into the final decree since often the judge observes "We've had this order for a while, I must be working, so why change what works?"

[whirlpoollife]

When I filed for divorce , after 27 yrs, I was physically shaken I was so scared because xh is vindictive in nature mixed with Npd and sociopath PD. But I also felt empowered , as you said. Not taking control of xh but taking control of me. Xh controled me now I controled me.  Of course that didn't sit well with xh.

Move forward about four years, I see more and more of the past  and am thankful for that inner strength to have followed thru with filing. 

At 18 yrs of marriage, you tried . S2bxw is not going change. You made the right decision. In our cases, the options are not , live in a happy healthy two parent family or leave and make the kids live in a divorce family... .its stay and be beaten down so much you can't be a parent , let alone be yourself , or leave and grow stronger as an individual which makes you the parent the kids deserve. 

You have my sympathy on the passing of your father.  When I was first ready to file, my mom passed away, so it got put on hold .   Then I filed, the grief for my mom got put on hold.  I understand the emotions for you that you must be going thru there.  You will have peace ... .later.

[Sluggo]

whirlpoollife,

When I filed for divorce , after 27 yrs, I was physically shaken I was so scared because xh is vindictive in nature mixed with Npd and sociopath PDNot taking control of xh but taking control of me. Xh controled me now I controled me.

I can relate to the shaking feeling.  I feel the same way.  Wow 27 years.  I can only imagine what has happened in those years.  I am also sorry you went through this.  Yes that is exactly it.  I feel like I am starting to control me. 

Move forward about four years, I see more and more of the past  and am thankful for that inner strength to have followed thru with filing. 

I really needed to hear that this weekend.  It has been a little tough.  Friday the kids were brought to the 'fish fry' by our new nurse who has become my wife's new 'person' asking her do all kinds of things.  The nurse is recently divorced and transplanted to our town.  I asked the nurse (who wasn't working last night but acting as a nanny/friend to my kids) where my 2yr old special needs son was.  She said you have to ask your wife.  I asked the kids and they said they didn't know (were told by my wife to say that)... .then my 6 yr old blurted out that he is in the hospital.  I tried calling and texting my wife to find out what happened and she never responded.  We have 7 different hospital choices in a 15 mile radius she could be at. 

At the end of the fish fry another lady 'friend' of my wife who also helps one of our other special need kid with homework said that she was taking our daughter home.  I said I would take her.  She said no that my wife gave her that responsibility.  'I am her Dad' I said .  She said 'I used to be a social worker and it is my responsibility because I was entrusted with her.  I am sorry I know it must be very hard to you'.  I said ' you are out of line.  There aren't any custody papers and I am the father.  She said well I need to hear that from your wife'.  Rather than making a seen, I gave my daughter a kiss and left. 

Next day my wife told me where our 2yr old was at the hospital.  When I got to the locked down PICU my wife was there with a couple of our other kids.  After a few hours I was getting ready to leave and I asked my wife for the 'code' to get back in.  She said you can only come visit our son when I am here.   But this time I did stand up for my self.  I asked the nurse who instructed to me to talk with security.  After explaining the situation to security and the social worker I finally got the code against my wife's 'orders' she gave the nursing staff.  I only had the strength to stand up to her this time because I knew the security would assist. 

At 18 yrs of marriage, you tried . S2bxw is not going change. You made the right decision. In our cases, the options are not , live in a happy healthy two parent family or leave and make the kids live in a divorce family... .its stay and be beaten down so much you can't be a parent , let alone be yourself , or leave and grow stronger as an individual which makes you the parent the kids deserve.

 

Yes, Yes... .very well said and captures my feelings so well.  Thank you for verbalizing those. 

Thank you so much for this post... .it does give hope which at times seems really dim. 

[ForeverDad]

Without a court order in hand, it's hard for others to know who to believe.  Can you get instructions from your lawyer ASAP?  Can you ask your lawyer for a letter on lawyer's letterhead stating that there are currently no domestic court orders yet and there are no restrictions or limits to your parenting?  Sadly, 'possession' often trumps 'fairness' in situations like this and entitled controlling parents, generally mothers, will do this with virtual impunity.  Clearly you're being blacklisted and obstructed.  Find out what can be done until court decides what to do or what to rubber stamp.

In my case, I have one son and at the time we separated he was a preschooler and she didn't work.  So when we didn't have an order and she kept him with her 100% of the time, I had no opportunity to pick him up from school, daycare, etc.

One good thing is that you have a temporary order in place.  Without that I believe parents are defaulted to equal but undefined rights.  I had a temp order for a few months but then it was eventually dismissed.  Evidently neither of our claims rose to the level of being actionable.  I didn't see my son for 3 months, not even with phone calls.  As a preschooler, he didn't go to school and police refused to accompany me to see him, though they did say they'd promptly respond if she called 911.  Police said, "Come back when you have an active written court order in hand."  I did file for divorce but it took a couple months to get that first hearing.

So if at all possible don't let that temp order lapse.  My first temp order ended because I didn't have a long term solution (divorce) in process and it took 3 months to get it back.  Mother wasn't admonished, Father didn't get make up time.

Be sure to be building up documentation to support your parental role.  Are there 'actionable' poor behaviors?  While the adult behaviors can and should be documented, courts give more attention to the parenting behaviors in custody disputes.  For example, documenting that "she screams, whatever at me" won't mean as much as "she screams, whatever at our children".  Often the court (often left up to us to make the request) will call in other professionals such as children's services or a custody evaluator to determine how to handle the case or to get a more in depth knowledge of the family dynamics.

[Sluggo]

Without a court order in hand, it's hard for others to know who to believe.  Can you get instructions from your lawyer ASAP?  Can you ask your lawyer for a letter on lawyer's letterhead stating that there are currently no domestic court orders yet and there are no restrictions or limits to your parenting?  Sadly, 'possession' often trumps 'fairness' in situations like this and entitled controlling parents, generally mothers, will do this with virtual impunity.  Clearly you're being blacklisted and obstructed.  Find out what can be done until court decides what to do or what to rubber stamp.

In my case, I have one son and at the time we separated he was a preschooler and she didn't work.  So when we didn't have an order and she kept him with her 100% of the time, I had no opportunity to pick him up from school, daycare, etc.

FD,

Thank you.  The social worker at the hospital told my wife that she had to produce documentation proving that I couldn't see our 2yr old or that she had custody.  Of course there wasn't any documentation as the filing had not hit the court, etc.   That is why I got access. 

Today though, the filing just showed up on line.  To see it in black and white on the courthouse website did hit me in the gut a little.  Conflict is not my normal as I try to avoid it which adds the extra layer of difficulty  on all of this.  I was going to check in with our nursing company and let them know that our nurse wouldn't tell me that our child went to the hospital because my wife told her not to say anything.  The nurse tried to have me sign 'the rule list' that my wife gave her and told me to sign. 

I have talked with the grade school and high school to at least let them know what has been happening.

[ForeverDad]

In my county the typical temporary order is issued in a half hour hearing 1 to 2 months after the divorce filing.  It was a free-for-all until then.  Even before I filed, my then-stbEx filed for an Ex Parte protection order to block my parenting.  The magistrate removed our son from the petition once CPS stood up and stated they had "no concerns" about me.  Though she was facing Threat of DV charges in another court, no one mentioned that line item on the petition.  All the magistrate was concerned about was our work schedules.  Though I had the house in my TPO and she couldn't come near it, she stated she "worked from home".  So the magistrate issued the typical temp order, mother got temp custody and majority time.  I got alternate weekends and a 3 hour evening in between (when she followed the order  ).

When those temp orders were all dismissed and she was found Not Guilty of DV threats (judge ruled no weapon in her hands so death threats were not "imminent" per case law).  She immediately stopped exchanges.  After a month I found a divorce lawyer, got my paperwork done and filed for divorce.  Another two months and we had our initial divorce hearing.  The same magistrate was not perturbed she had blocked 100% for 3 months.  All he said was, "I'll fix this" and issued the same temp order, this time also ordering me to pay child support starting retroactive to the filing date.  No consequences for her, no make up time for me.

Then she started son in therapy but convinced them I was a danger to them, though the order made no mention of me misbehaving.  In the order I had by "statutory parental rights" legal access to son's records but it took 3 trips to court over the span of a year to get the court to finally order the agency to release my son's therapy records.  She was making up quite a few allegations.

[Sluggo]

In my county the typical temporary order is issued in a half hour hearing 1 to 2 months after the divorce filing.  It was a free-for-all until then.  Even before I filed, my then-stbEx filed for an Ex Parte protection order to block my parenting.  The magistrate removed our son from the petition once CPS stood up and stated they had "no concerns" about me.  Though she was facing Threat of DV charges in another court, no one mentioned that line item on the petition.  All the magistrate was concerned about was our work schedules.  Though I had the house in my TPO and she couldn't come near it, she stated she "worked from home".  So the magistrate issued the typical temp order, mother got temp custody and majority time.  I got alternate weekends and a 3 hour evening in between (when she followed the order  ).

When those temp orders were all dismissed and she was found Not Guilty of DV threats (judge ruled no weapon in her hands so death threats were not "imminent" per case law).  She immediately stopped exchanges.  After a month I found a divorce lawyer, got my paperwork done and filed for divorce.  Another two months and we had our initial divorce hearing.  The same magistrate was not perturbed she had blocked 100% for 3 months.  All he said was, "I'll fix this" and issued the same temp order, this time also ordering me to pay child support starting retroactive to the filing date.  No consequences for her, no make up time for me.

Then she started son in therapy but convinced them I was a danger to them, though the order made no mention of me misbehaving.  In the order I had by "statutory parental rights" legal access to son's records but it took 3 trips to court over the span of a year to get the court to finally order the agency to release my son's therapy records.  She was making up quite a few allegations.

FD,

More and more I read your story it just gets more and more messy.  It has prepared me to expect the worse but hope for the best.  And after the temp order is issued, it is an uphill climb to get back rights and visitation if not granted from the outset.  It is not a sprint but a marathon.  And in your case an ultramarathon. 

Never thought about the retroactive child support.  I have not cut anything off as she still has the same access to our only joint credit card and the little savings in the bank account.   

[ForeverDad]

Expect (prepare) for the worse but hope for the best.  And after the temp order is issued, it is an uphill climb to get back rights and visitation if not granted from the outset.

Which is why we need to try to get the best order we can from the start, playing catch-up while an entitled spouse is obstructing us is so hard.

Never thought about the retroactive child support.  I have not cut anything off as she still has the same access to our only joint credit card and the little savings in the bank account.

Joint credit accounts are a real concern.  Make sure the credit line is not too high, you want to limit any damage she may attempt.  Or if this just your account (you are account holder) and she has a card (she is card holder) then your risks are reduced, you have control of the account and can cancel her card at an appropriate time.

• Lenders often ignore court orders.  If a debt is owed, then they will come after anyone who signed on the dotted line.  If she doesn't pay, they'll come after you.  (Same as with mortgages, car loans, etc.)



• She may feel this is a good time to "raid the pantry" and stock up on $$$ or expensive items.  Try to limit any damage she may try to do.

I was surprised by the retroactive.  About 10 days after the order was issued, my child support enforcement agency (CSEA) issued a notice that I would be reported as DELINQUENT if not paid within 30 days.  I had to pay 3 months support (2 were retroactive) within a month.  Since I'd just paid a retainer to my new lawyer, I had no free cash, I had to borrow some of it from a sibling to comply.

A word about paying child or spousal support when there are no support orders yet... .  Courts often ignore payments outside of court orders, viewing all such payments as 'gifts'.  Maybe, just maybe, writing "support" on checks might squeak by as support, but don't count on it.  For that reason, don't be too generous with unordered support, it may not help you.  A saying that's appeared here before:  The person behaving poorly seldom gets consequences and the person behaving well seldom gets credit.

[Sluggo]

FD,

Thank you. 

I have been on pins and needles as I don't think my wife has received the letter yet of being served.  I am nervous, curious, sad, angry and other emaotions still trying to figure out. 

Our one son has been in the hospital for the last 6 days so she hasn't been home to get the mail as it was sent certified to the house. 

Not sure how she will respond... . 

[ForeverDad]

Not sure how she will respond... .

Odds are, she will ramp up her obstruction.  She will be desperate to make you appear worse than her.  Blame.  Blame Shift.  Be prepared for false allegations made to every agency she can think of.  (If she and your agencies are like mine, they will eventually classify them as "unsubstantiated" and dismiss/close them but still allow her to keep making them.)

Be especially careful that she doesn't frame you for mischief.  She may stage incidents to finally have an excuse to file for protection.  So if you've been recording when in proximity to her before now, do so even more diligently now.  Sadly, it's not enough to say, "I didn't do it."  When the claims are so emotion-based and the facts are so few and murky, officials often default to ordering restraint/protection just to avoid a risk of a Page One headline some day.  You need documentation on your side.

One stance you can take, not sure how much it means, is that her post-separation claims are "sour grapes" because you're ending the marital relationship.

[Sluggo]

Be especially careful that she doesn't frame you for mischief.  She may stage incidents to finally have an excuse to file for protection.

That does worry me a little bit as the times I have been at home and doing the treatments for the baby on the vent, she has come in and taken pictures saying that I was late on the treatments, or not doing the correctly.  Even though there is a 90 min window of time, she is positioning her accusations (directed at me right now) saying I am doing something wrong. 

She took a picture one day when she got home and I was laying on the bed (fully clothed) as my daughter was there on the bed with me laid down (fully clothed).  She came in and started taking pictures.  She said it was because it was 8:04 and I was suppose to start the treatments at 8:00 am.   But it makes me wonder. 

Yesterday she claimed that the nurse at the hospital said I had women in the room visiting my son.  I didn't have anyone with me.  But she kept saying I did.  I think she was trying to see if I had brought my sister or my mom to the room as she doesn't want them to see our child.  I told her 3 times I didn't and then stopped answering that question. 

her post-separation claims are "sour grapes" because you're ending the marital relationship.

That is a good stance. 

[teapay]

All4, now that you've headed down the separation road there will likely be big changes for you and your wife regardless of ultimate outcome.   With you less under her control, less immediately present and involved or even hampered by her, less finances available to her (presumed?), how do you think she will manage with the 7 kids?  Is she competent enough to do it or will she tank and her end disintegrate?  I've got 5 kids of my own and my W struggles even with me around doing the majority of stuff.  Full custody would not a big win for her.  It factors into my thinking and I do use it as leverage in my r/s with my W.  It is important to protect yourself as others have said.   Although Im still with my wife I spend time getting and keeping my ducks in a row to the extent possible.  I've  been at the crisis point several times and learned the advantages of being prepared and not holding back.  One thing I also do is document all the things I do to manage the house and care for the kids so I can show I can take care of the kids if I need too even though I work full time.