You don't understand me

[Username_Taken]

I will start with saying I (36F) am diagnosed borderline. I have been in weekly counselling for the past year, and working on improving my emotional regulation for the last three. I can still get triggered pretty easily but also able to snap out of it quickly, apologize and consider the others point of view. Use a variety or mindfulness, DBT and CBT techniques. Working on considering others perspectives, communicating assertively and not lashing out when hurt.  Yet since all borderlines are different I find myself struggling with this relationship lately. I will admit my validation and attunement skills are still very weak compared to most.

I have been casually dating him (42M) for the past year in a poly relationship. He isn't diagnosed but there is definitely some sort of personality disorder there. We have been slowly getting closer and closer to the point we will speak for hours every day now.  He can be extremely self aware, able to emphasize and validate others feelings. But once he gets triggered he will randomly blow up about the same thing, over and over for days. 

We have this cycle were something will happen and he says "you don't understand me" often combined with "no one cares about me" he'll want to end things or just be friends. I try to understand, he calms down then a few days later he acts like it never happened. Slowly the cycles have been getting further and further apart but we just had a really bad one, where he got mad and walked out on me and when I didn't chase him, he got even more upset and now won't see me, but he wants to keep talking on the phone as if nothing happened. I just want to know what I could do to help things.

I saw some great posts about when he says you don't care, and to not JADE something I am bad about, but the understanding part has me baffled.

He says no one has misunderstood him as much as I do. Yet sometimes it's because he literally hasn't told me pieces of information. I will be missing context and try to get understanding and he blows up. Then days later tells me the context I was missing.  Or when I try to validate his feelings, I'll say he was angry but really he was upset and to him this is completely different and me not getting it.  He has admitted to being difficult, angry, not letting things go, but obviously once he gets triggered all bets are off.  We are very different in terms of lifestyle but on an emotional level I do actually get him quite well. When I told him I want to show him how much I care he says "that is just who you are"

[PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES]

PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members may appear frustrated but they are here for constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[AdRock]

I hate seeing posts go unreplied on this board because I know everyone here is going through their own private struggles.  And (if this comes off condescending, I apologize, it is not my intent at all), it is refreshing to see someone post who actually has bpd and is improving themselves.  I only say that because I think it's a good reminder for many on this board to remember that everyone is different even if they have a pd (I say that as a schizoid who has his own personal struggles).
In regards to your situation, he definitely has something going on but I would only be speculating.  I think you would be too unless he gets a diagnosis, unless you read about every mental health issue under the sun.  Maybe a npd but I don't know much about it and I'm not sure if what you're describing about him is him trying to be abusive or just not appreciating your genuine attempts to help him and understand him better.  I'm sure what he says to you is completely invalidating since I'm sure you are genuinely trying to be supportive of him.
What would your ideal outcome of this to be?  Are you ok with the poly lifestyle he has?  I don't judge anyone as long as they don't play with people and maybe it suits both of your lives at the moment.  I was just wondering if you would want him to commit to you solely one day or continue with that.  Because if it's a lifestyle you both would want, maybe one approach is to focus on other people, platonically or otherwise, and continue on working on yourself.  It sounds like you do that already, I've been taking baby steps the past few months.

[Username_Taken]

Thank you for the reply, it really meant a lot.  To me, having a PD is not an excuse to be abusive or treat others poorly, and I try to be a better person. I do sometimes hate all this self awareness though. I miss the days where I could be toxic and not realize it. Now when I do something out of line, even if it was something anyone could do in anger, I feel intense amounts of guilt. I feel like I should know better and have 100% control over my emotions, which I know isn't realistic.

I am okay with being poly. One of the problems with my marriage (15yrs) was that I would get bored, and want excitement. I recognize this is a BPD thing, but even after all this work I still feel a very strong pull for that. I don't want to ever hurt anyone like I hurt my husband with monkey branching, ending things and then quickly running back when I came to my senses. It just feels so much safer to find a primary partner and have an open relationship.

You saying "don't play with people" really struck a cord with me. My counsellor believes that we are tangled together precisely for that reason. We are stuck in a power and control dynamic that goes back and forth.

There seems to be a trend on here of the "you don't care about me", so wanted to see if people had experienced the "you don't understand me" dynamic before. You are right that is is incredibly invalidating of him to throw that at me all the time, so maybe I was also looking for some validation myself.  I can see now how he invalidates my caring and I invalidate his feelings about how he perceives my caring. He constantly says no one truly cares about him, they all want something out of him, myself included.

You are right that I should probably focus on other people in my life, I try to but they seem dull or flat compared to him. He is the shiny toy that I can't quite grasp. Ironic because I see how he himself chases his shiny toys.

[AdRock]

For the starters, the intense amount of guilt you feel is rooted in your pd from my understanding.  It's in fact a normal human response but for you (and correct me if I'm wrong), it is much more intense and overwhelming.  You're correct, having any type of pd is not an excuse for treating someone poorly but the important thing for you to remember is that you are aware that your actions are not always sound and not all of them are even related to your pd.  As you said, some are in fact just a normal human response to how someone is treating you.  It's your response to your emotions that is very difficult for you but being aware of them and reassessing your response is a positive counter response to them.
Your poly lifestyle and relationship sounds complicated.  I have nothing against it and confess I know very little about people who have that lifestyle.  A few things stuck out to me.  You would like him to be your primary partner.  But it sounds like he is not able to meet the needs as your primary partner because he throws things back at you too often.  And other people seem boring to you by comparison to him.  Believe me, I actually understand that completely.  I'm a schizoid which is complicated to get into and I don't even fit the term perfectly, but a great many people strike me as rather dull which I am sure is why I gravitate towards people with bpd.  My ex lover who is separated from her husband ended things with me for a person across the country and a rational response from me would be "all right, screw you, I'll find someone else" but everyone seems dull compared to her.  So I understand it is hard to focus on other people for you right now.  And none of this is to say for you to end things with him.  But if he is unable to discuss things without getting emotional or withholding information from you, there may not be a way to get him to change his behavior.  Saying "you don't understand me" seems to play into the power and control dynamic you are both involved in.
Believe it or not, without knowing you at all of course, the fact you are working on yourself and trying to live a lifestyle incredibly different from your prior marriage, shows you are doing better than you think because it shows you have no desire to hurt people as you hurt your husband and want to live the best kind of life that suits who you are and your personality.  Whether you can make it work with your current primary partner or not, I know if you are upfront about what you struggle with, there are other people who will be receptive to the person you are and what you have to offer them.  And one may surprise you and excite you and be a perfect match.  It's just something to think about.  Please keep posting if you feel the need to or feel free to reach out privately.  I'm always willing to listen.

[Cat Familiar]

It’s hard to understand someone if they won’t tell you who thy are, how they feel, and what they think. In those circumstances all you can do is to agree, “yes, I don’t understand, but I’d like to.”

Telling someone they’re angry might not go over well, as you’ve experienced. For him, there may be subtle nuances between anger, irritation, frustration, annoyance. I know that is the case with me, and it annoys me when my husband claims I’m angry, when I’m not. “You want to see anger….?” 

Best, if you’re not sure of what he’s feeling, to validate it nonverbally or with more generic language than being specific.

The “no one cares about me” seems a common theme with personality disorders. And to dismiss your caring as just part of your personality—well, just chalk it up to reassurance that didn’t work. Sometimes trying to disprove an allegation such as that is invalidating. Best to just sympathize.

[Username_Taken]

He finally admitted that for all his complaining that I don't understand him, that I actually do. He then went on to say I manipulate him with it, but then aplogized and said it came out wrong. We spent 5 days straight together with few incidents and it was really nice. Then last night he calls and after chatting a bit he tells me he misses me, I was so shocked all I could say was "you do?"  I told him I just needed to spend time in my own house because I had chores etc that needed to get done before we go away for the weekend, but I felt the shift in his tone.

Today is radio silence which is super unlike him. I'm fairly sure my lack of reciprocating has upset him. I know this isn't my fault but I feel bad I missed his bid for connection. The thing is, I DO miss him but all his pushing me away has me gun shy. Like if I admit I miss him he'll just push me away again. 

I will admit this is triggering my abandonment wounds and I want to blow up his phone and chase him, which may be exactly what he wants. I just know that isn't a healthy approach to this. I've sent two messages and need to leave it be.

[Couscous]

He sounds so much like my BPD/NPD brother. The issue is that when you try to explain that you DO care, they experience that as invalidation.

I happened upon a very good article yesterday that helped me make sense of my brother’s accusations, and thought of it when I read your post. Here’s one part that stood out:

If you are a therapist treating borderlines, or share your life with a borderline, conflict is familiar, and blame will circulate in the air. Not only will you be deemed to blame for claimed failures of caring, but the borderline will engage in (often uncommunicated directly) internalized cycles of self-blame. It is helpful as a clinician to be aware that when a borderline patient is expressing blame or hatred toward you, the patient may actually be ridding him or herself of an immediate upswell from an undercurrent of simmering self-contempt.

The term “borderline rage” was coined by clinicians to refer to a particularly bitter, overwhelming sense of blind anger manifested by borderline patients. When feeling alone or abandoned, left with a fundamental sense of “something missing” within, the borderline may react with levels of extreme anger that will surprise and even shock you. In these states, the borderline may lose the ability to accurately discern the behavior or motives of others, instead projecting indifference or intentional cruelty. De-escalation strategies, rather than sophisticated explanations or deeper, insightful interventions, will be called for in these instances.

In my case, I had to come to terms with my ‘Rescuer’ tendencies and accept that I did not have the power to save him, or heal his childhood wounds, and then just ignore my feelings of guilt for ‘abandoning’ him and for not being willing to drown along with him.

As far as your need for more excitement or drama in your life, you can get to to bottom of that in 12 Step recovery groups, such as Al-Anon, which I have just started attending myself.

[Username_Taken]

Thanks for the reply, I definitely have some rescuer qualities I've been examining and working on staying in my adult space so to speak. It's really hard because with anyone else we would discuss and compromise and just come to a win win. But when I try to do this with him I end up in this battle and in an effort to come to a solution I bend over backwards and move into rescuer.

I'm finding when I simply state a preference or give him his options and then drop it, he realizes he won't get his way unless he "comes to the table" so to speak. It's just a very different dynamic then I'm used to.  It's like he wants to draw me into a fight constantly over everything and would rather we both lose them discuss it calmly. Even when it's something I don't care about and just want to know his preference, often he won't tell me up front.

I met his family recently and he does the same thing to his mother, she would ask him a question and have to keep asking until he would answer.

[Couscous]

So what is that you see in this fellow, if I may ask? What are his redeeming qualities?

[SinisterComplex]

Thanks for the reply, I definitely have some rescuer qualities I've been examining and working on staying in my adult space so to speak. It's really hard because with anyone else we would discuss and compromise and just come to a win win. But when I try to do this with him I end up in this battle and in an effort to come to a solution I bend over backwards and move into rescuer.

I'm finding when I simply state a preference or give him his options and then drop it, he realizes he won't get his way unless he "comes to the table" so to speak. It's just a very different dynamic then I'm used to.  It's like he wants to draw me into a fight constantly over everything and would rather we both lose them discuss it calmly. Even when it's something I don't care about and just want to know his preference, often he won't tell me up front.

I met his family recently and he does the same thing to his mother, she would ask him a question and have to keep asking until he would answer.

So UT, first and most importantly I support you in admitting here your own battle. Thank you for having the courage to openly discuss here. Now beyond that, the behavior you are speaking of with your partner isn't necessarily something I would relate to a disorder, but rather I would suspect his behavior is more related to learned behavior from childhood and something he just never outgrew because the behavior was never constructively confronted. He could have witnessed the behavior he displays with you between his own parents so in his mind this is his normal so to speak.

Now for the hard part...you have to stop the rescuer in you. Why? By going into rescuer mode you continue to enable the S behavior. The unfortunate reality is that there has to be clear, firm, and indifferent lines drawn in the sand. You create strong boundaries and then stick to those boundaries and remain consistent with them regardless of how exhausting it can feel. You have to be willing to have the confidence and power to always walk away. Never ever allow S behavior to be enabled and continue. Also remember...he is not your responsibility. His piss poor behavior is his own responsibility to clean up and you are only responsible for YOU.

Cheers and best wishes!

-SC-

[Username_Taken]

So what is that you see in this fellow, if I may ask? What are his redeeming qualities?

He doesn't try to fix me or even see me as broken. He also doesn't have me on a pedestal, he just sees me as a person. For the longest time I attracted men who wanted to rescue me, and I was often a victim. I even married one of them! I do see the irony that now I'm the rescuer. We have an amazing intellectual connection and see the world the same way. Neither of us have had the easiest life so we can relate to each other. I have a very hard time relaxing around people, even those I've known for years but with him I feel safe and grounded. I never feel exhausted and like I need to recharge on my own, and for the most part, I don't want to get away from him (except for when I am triggered). There are very few people in my life who offer me this, and I cherish each of them.

I have had my own BPD moments with him, one night at 2am, I thought he was mad, but he said he wasn't. When he rolled over to sleep, I felt abandoned, completely dysregulated, put my clothes on and stormed out. We exchanged some texts and I eventually came back and he let me in. Instead of being angry, he immediately hugged me and comforted me. He wanted to talk about why I was angry. Previously I had a 7 month relationship end when I did something similar and he point blank said I was too reactive and he couldn't handle it. (I get storming out is a terrible thing to do, I just go into flight really easily, and emotional regulation is a work in progress)

He doesn't let me trick him? If that makes sense. The ways that I sometimes subtly manipulate people, he sees right through me, just as I see right through him. He also doesn't see me as "bad" for doing these things, he just calls me out.