Does Everyone But You Think Your BPD/NPD Mom is Great?

[jmanvo2015]

I am curious to hear other people's opinions and experiences on this topic.  I'm really glad to be a part of this community and am appreciating all the great comments and advice.  Everything is so new to me.  There are light bulbs going off nonstop... .

Has anyone seen the film, "Mommie Dearest" about Joan Crawford?  I frequently use Joan Crawford as an analogy to what my mom is like in therapy.  In that film, everyone worshiped Joan Crawford.  After all, she was beautiful, rich and a movie star and she was very charming! Oh boy, was she a charmer. 

Well, that's what my mom is like.  In front of the curtain she seems perfect to the outside world.  Here I am new to these boards and finally grasping the extend of my mom's BPD/NPD and what happens?  My uncle stops by with a framed photo of my mother in one of those "Mother" frames with all the inspirational quotes about how great mothers are.  And I'm, like, is this a joke?

But that's how it's always been.  Everyone thinks my mother is this self-sacrificing heroine who raised a daughter after my deadbeat dad left her.  But, that's not really true.  I now have a relationship with my biological father who insists she drove him away, and I can see that.  But, in my mother's family, she's seen as a hero.  They don't understand the emotional manipulation, the raging or the abuse.  If I even gently try to mention that my mother is less than perfect they pounce on me for being a bad, ungrateful and selfish daughter.

Oy.  Does anyone else have experience with this?  At this point, I just have no relationship with most of my mother's family.  Ironically, she doesn't either.  She pretty much cut them all out a few years ago.  So, it really surprises me how they are still loyal to her.  When I reconciled with my biological father, my mother's first cousin sent me an email that made me feel really guilty about doing this and I had to set her straight without mentioning my mother (I used something else to get her to see what she was doing wrong and it worked - nobody had liked the man she married and gave her a really hard time, but he ended up being a great husband.  So, I pointed out to her that she doesn't really know my biological father, and people change and she shouldn't be so judg mental given the hard time the family gave her about her hubby. Well, that shut her up once and for all. Hurrah!)

[claudiaduffy]

My uBPDm has a more moderate case of BPD than many, and it's interesting, because while it doesn't bother me when people like her - she can be a decent and likable person - she actually doesn't get the extreme of people gushing over her, so I don't have to deal with it. Outside her home, she's just a person, with high points and failings like anyone else.

My uBPDmil, on the other hand, is extremely self-aggrandizing and has had many followers who adore her. Not so many, anymore, since the last year of craziness in public view. But for a while my DH and I were getting emails from people who only barely knew her, cussing us out for how we treated such a wonderful woman. We also got emails from relative who should have known better, telling us we needed to just be grownups and be nice to her because that's just the way she is and we should accept her apologies for the bigger things she'd done, because obviously she loves us so much.    We just tune it out when it happens.

Oddly enough, my own mother often calls herself "Mommy dearest" when identifying herself on my voicemail. 

[Harri]

Hi Jman.  I remember how frustrating it was to know people did not have a clue about the kind of stuff that happened in our house when I was a kid or even how bad my mother was towards the end of her life.  Some people, especially towards the end of her life knew something was off about her.  But for the most part I heard how much my mother loved me and sacrificed for me.  And she did all that, it was just the way she did it that they did not see.  

I think some people just can't handle the truth and choose to bury their heads.  Other people seem to have the same illusions about their own family and follow the expectations of family and society blindly.  We all have our own demons and challenges in life, but we also seem to have our own denial.  People may in fact have seen glimpses of our parents but recoil and refuse to really look at them because it threatens their own reality.  

Or I should say that's my theory and I am sticking to it!    I was one of those people.  I have actually told people how loving and supportive my parents were.  all I can do is gently shake my head at myself and the extent of my own denial.  And I sometimes sit and wonder what I have seen that I still deny.  There has to be stuff that I only allowed myself to see out of the corner of my eye... .while squinting to make everything even more indistinct.  Maybe I am fooling myself that we all do it.  I don't really know.  When I am looking within, I try to remember that the harder I slam the door on something, or the stronger my reaction or even my efforts to reassure another person, chances are there is some thought or memory that I am trying to stuff down.  So maybe, when the people around you/us are so busy talking about how wonderful your/my mom is, some of them might be in denial about their own stuff and looking at your mom as she really is, is threatening to them.  Or maybe I am overanalyzing.  Again, I don't know.

Anyway, I am not sure there is a way to handle this other than the way you spoke up, so good for you!  That must have felt good and liberating.  I think as you/we learn more about BPD, our families and start to strip away the facade, we come to a place where it no longer matters if others can't see our reality.  

Take good care.  

[trees]

That's part of what really sucks about all this; to be invalidated all over again. I am so sorry that you are having to go through that with your mom's followers. That's exactly what Christina Crawford went through-- she writes a book & people who weren't there, who didn't see her mom in the private moments call her a liar. People don't want to think a mom can do this to their kids. People don't understand how someone with BPD can be one way in public & one way in private.

Almost everyone sees my mom as great. (She's also undiagnosed & I don't know exactly what her issues are but I suspect BPD w/narcissistic tendencies.) She's super charming when you first meet her, very outgoing, lots of friends. She's very good at keeping her rage hidden from the public. She also brags about my sibling and me to all of her friends (while lamenting how we never visit), so they would prob. all be shocked how she denigrates us to our faces.

To my knowledge, only 3 people have ever instantly figured my mom out -- 2 of my cancer doctors & a friend with a psych degree who's been in a lot of therapy due to depression (she also has a sister w/diagnosed bipolar disorder). I never told them anything about my mom/childhood before they met her. My 2 cancer drs. pegged my mom as being borderline within an hour of meeting her; my friend asked if my mom was bipolar or if she had a PD. The funny thing is that to this day, my mom gushes about how awesome my cancer drs. are; she has no idea that they absolutely cannot stand her & that they strongly suggested that I talk to a counselor about going NC, at least while in treatment to reduce the stress from all of her drama.

A 4th (my husband) instantly knew something was wrong but couldn't figure out what. The 1st time he met my parents while we were dating, we went out to dinner. I excused myself to wash my hands & my mom turned to him and started saying how fat and ugly I was and how ashamed she was to be seen in public to be with me. (Not that it matters, but I wasn't fat; I weighed less than my mom.) When I got back to the table, my mom acted all nice and happy to see me. After that, my husband never trusted her & he eventually told me the story & started asking about my childhood. After we got engaged, she started raging at me directly in his presence (and at him) and he began to think she had NPD.

Almost all of my close friends have seen my mom's Witch side because she eventually slipped up in their presence. A few of them admitted that when I finally opened up about my childhood (before they saw my mom's bad side), they thought I was exaggerating b/c my mom always seemed so nice.

[jmanvo2015]

Harri - your insights are always very much appreciated.  Thank you! 

Trees - it sounds like we have had the same exact experience, but you've been fortunate to have people that have figured your mom out.  I haven't had this yet. I worry all the time about dating a man because I think my mother will charm him and then they will side against me - it's happened before.  These days, I've decided if I meet a guy who can see thru my mom's BS w/o me having to tell him that will be a very good sign he's a keeper.  Having been ganged up on for most of my life as an only child by my BPD/NPD mom and NPD stepdad it sure would be nice to have someone on my side for a change.

[trees]

jmanvo2015 -- It really does sound like our moms are very similar. I'm sorry that no one else has seen your mom for who she really is; I know I'm lucky to have had a few people see through the BS because the validation helps a lot.

If it helps at all, I believe you. I'm on your side. I would hazard a guess that everyone on this board believes you and supports you and there are prob. people here who could spot your mom coming a mile away (I admit that my BPD radar is still a bit wobbly).

I bet there are people in your life who are on your side too. That if push came to shove, they would hold your hand and say that they believe in you, that they stand with you and help you weather the storm. And maybe you haven't met all of those people yet. But you will.



As an aside, it always made me really sad as a kid that my mom could be so nice & charming to all of her friends & neighbors but so horrid to me. I always just thought it was b/c I was bad/unlovable. As an adult, I knew that it had nothing to do with me but the fact that she could be charming/nice always gave me that kernel of hope that she could/would change.

(And yep, my husband is a keeper. As is my sibling's spouse, her mom and my MIL. Srsly, they are like the moms I dreamed of having when I was little & didn't think existed IRL.)

[jmanvo2015]

Trees, thank you for the kind words and encouragement   

I'm very glad you have found loving people to fill the gap left by your BPD mom and hope that someday I'll be able to say the same 

[Woolspinner2000]

Jmanvo,

I took time to speak with my dad this summer and he said that even my uBPDm best friends had no idea who my mom was behind closed doors. We (husband and children and a few family members) were the only ones who ever seemed to know who she really was.

When my uBPDmom passed away in 2012, everyone at the funeral or around her home kept saying she was the kindest person they had ever met, and they literally meant it. I struggled so that week before she died when she was in the hospital, and then through the funeral when all of her friends, neighbors, and acquaintances were constantly asking about her or expressing their condolences. The guilt I felt for even having thoughts of how I knew and perceived her to be were terrible. I began wondering if I was jealous of her or what was going on because I was so bothered. Maybe what I experienced wasn't that bad I even thought, and a few people even said that maybe she had changed. However every time we had spoken on the phone it was always touch and go as to whether she would be going off on me or some situation; she had not changed. I finally realized that they saw a different person than I did. They knew her as the person who would give you the shirt off of her back. And she would do that... .for them, and occasionally for us but there were other reasons why she would do this for us.

So to answer your question, at least in my experience, no one would have ever guessed who she really was. The invalidation we can receive is horrible, so you really have to chose only those safe people to share with. We desperately need to be validated. That's one of the reasons why this site exists for us. I think one of the lines that bothers me the most is, "You know your mother loved you." But they didn't live my life.

Woolspinner

[trees]

jmanvo2015-- I have no doubt in my heart that you will meet those people. Or learn that some are already there in your midst. I know you said you've been burned in the past, but there are plenty of people out there who won't hurt you. You will find them.  

[Wintersun]

jmanvo2015, you said that you haven't found people that have figured your mom out. It is so difficult to feel alone like this, to be the only person who sees or experiences these behaviors. I feel for you.  love As Harri mentioned, we are all on a journey to get to a place where it no longer matters whether others see our reality. You will get there, jmanvo2015. I will get there. You are among friends here.

[trees]

we are all on a journey to get to a place where it no longer matters whether others see our reality

And sometimes you take two steps forward and one step back.  A few yrs ago, I was with a friend & checked my voicemail. My mom had left a particularly vicious vmail, which I listened to & erased. I must have made a face b/c my friend asked me what was wrong & I tried to explain. She gave me the whole, "oh, just call & tell her you're upset & you need to just talk it out." I said that would make it worse & she didn't believe me.

So I gave a few more examples of past drama & my friend said gave me some platitudes about how I needed to calm down, every family has their problems.   I gave up trying to explain it to her. At the time, it really bothered me. Later, I realized that she's really close to her parents. Her response was based on her relationship to them & how she would deal with an argument. I knew her heart was in the right place & didn't need her to "get it" after that.

We're actually closer friends now. I don't hide my family drama from her but I also don't expect her to understand or take my side. It also helps that she no longer says any of the platitudes-- I think she said one in front of my husband once; he kind of laughed & said that my friend was assuming that my mom was capable of thinking & acting like a normal human being.

[jmanvo2015]

Trees - I'm going to start making an effort to find these people.  Someone on this board or another (maybe you? but I can't remember) said their therapist told them as they were healing from their mother's mental illness to identify 7-8 supportive people.  I don't have those people right now, BUT the good news is that I can absolutely identify who they are NOT    That's huge for me. Because of my abusive upbringing I've had a penchant for attracting friends that take advantage of and manipulate me.  Right now, I have "friends" it's just that many are just my friend because they want something  (because of the work I do.)  I used to be too naive to see this, so I got hurt a lot.  :'(  Now, I keep those people at a courteous distance.

[jmanvo2015]

Woolspinner   

We've had a similar experience.  My mother's best friend was also my godmother and she never believed me about my mom.  She was also married to a therapist who never figured out how abusive my mom was.  I ran away to their house a few times, but I could tell by the way they treated me that my mom had "got" to them.  My mother is a master manipulator.  She puts on the best show.  She's smart enough to figure people out and then she tells them what they want to hear and/or woos them with gifts and flattery.  She makes everyone dependent on her.  My godmother is a very frail person, with a lot of emotional troubles of her own, so my mother has always just swooped in and been her heroine - giving her advice, acting so much more together and superior.  My godmother has absolutely no idea the horrible things my mother says about her behind her back.  My mother thinks she's an absolute wreck of a human being.  But to her face, it's an entirely different performance.   

So, yes, the invalidation is horrible.  People think I'm the bad guy.  I've grappled with that my whole life.  I'm very good to my godmother and have never said mean things about her behind her back, yet she started acting like I didn't understand or appreciate how great my mom was.  And, I'm thinking, "my mom doesn't even like you!"  And, at times when my godmother and I were close, my mom killed that.  She was so jealous that she did everything she could to tear us apart.  She denigrated my godmother all the time.  Now, I hardly ever talk to my godmother.  My mom won.

Last week, I was speaking to my new therapist about how my stepfather and me dislike each other so much and she said, "Of course." I looked at her startled.    She explained, "Well, your mother wouldn't have it any other way.  She certainly wouldn't be able to handle it if the two of you got a long."    Oh my - she was right!      That was the first time I really realized the pattern my mom has had of separating me from people my entire life - cutting off any other ties that I might have for support.

Well, that stops now.  I am not saying anything to my mother or father about finding these boards.  Or about the work I'm doing with my therapist. I am just trying to figure out how to set up my own network of support and eventually be where I want and need to be in my life.  I've finally realized it    The well with my mother and stepfather is dry.  It's dry.  I am not going to get what I need from them ever.

Here I am in their home and they either ignore me or criticize or yell at me. There's no joy where I'm concerned.  Everything they say and do makes it clear that I'm a big burden on them.  Yet, I've been very successful in my career (except right now I"m unemployed) and had many accomplishments and I'm well-liked in our community.  I'm also quiet, respectful and try very hard not to disrupt their life or their home.  But they way they act, you'd think I was a drug addict or criminal.  It's so horrible.  I have to remind myself every day that I'm not the bad person they make me out to be.  I have to remind myself that they're troubled. 

And, yes, many days, I get that momentary glee from realizing that someday it will be them that will need help.  They'll be old, sick and crippled and (I know this sounds really mean) I can't wait to kick them when they're down (figuratively of course).  Maybe by that time, I'll be NC and they can die alone.  Because I honestly can't figure out why I have to be this kind or self-sacrificing to two people that are so consistently horrible to me.  I am finally getting to that point where I want out.  That's a big deal for me. :'( :'(

[jmanvo2015]

Wintersun 

With what you say right here, you could be describing my mother.

"I recently posted about this but in addition to the denigration she COMPLETELY disallows me to voice any kind of protestation to her behavior. The reaction is always that >I< am the problem because I'm too sensitive, I have "issues", am "twisting things around". Alternatively, she reacts angrily to my expressing hurt or dissatisfaction with her behavior because, in her mind, it shows that I am ungrateful for all that she has done for me."

I relate to this completely and I empathize with you completely. Nothing in my life has been as difficult as my mother's constant invalidation of my feelings.  I am also "not allowed" to express any problem with her behavior or to tell her that she has wounded me.  At times, I've even tried those "I" messages that conflict resolution books tell you to use.  Well, that's just a joke because there's no "proper" way to handle my mother's anger.  She will not be handled no matter how highly recommended the conflict resolution method.  She tells me the same things that your mother tells you.  I'm too sensitive. I'm selfish and ungrateful. 

I have finally given up on ever again trying to talk to her reasonably.  When she gets lost in a rage or criticism spiral, I quietly remind myself that she's terribly mentally ill.  I try the JADE, SET and validating techniques not for her sake, but to minimize the damage her anger does to me.

Regarding your dad, I read about this thing recently called Parental Alienation Syndrome.  I never knew about it, but my mom did this with my biological father.  She demonized him.  She pushed him out of my life after the divorce and when I was 10 she simply had my stepfather adopt me.  It was clean and simple.  One day I went to school with one name and the next day I went to school with another.  That was it, my biological father was gone.  (we reconciled in 2008, but that's another long story)

I'm sorry that you have to live with your father simply because I can completely relate.  It's hard to be an adult and have to be dependent on our parents.  And, it's harder for me because I blame them for not giving me the self-esteem that's necessary for me to make it on my own.  They created me to be dependent on them and then they resent me, criticize me and shame me for that dependence.  They are just sad, angry and abusive people.  Because of my mother's narcissism, I've always hated any kind of display of haughtiness or arrogance, but I keep reminding myself "They don't deserve a good daughter like me."  :'(