Head is spinning

[Before you can make things better, you have to stop making them worse...]

Ok,

Trying to keep everything on the straight and narrow, I'm popping in to read every now and then.  Mostly trying to forget about BPD as much as possible.  I had the equivalent of a co-parenting counsellor meeting, most painful and horrendous thing I have ever been through.  The counsellor gets it, I just can see it so point blank.  The black and white thinking, ambushing me with things and then playing the victim to shift the goal posts. 

It has taken me 3 days to calm down from the BS associated with it all.  I actually walked out of the meeting at one point where I just couldn't sit their.  I was about to go off my rocker, she knows my buttons and I am determined not to let it get the best of me in many respects. 

I am holding so much back that I just want to unleash with.  I am waiting until the deposition, their were one or two things that went down that essentially stumped her and had her sitting their in a dissociative state. 

I had one minute where I just felt like an arsehole afterwards as I know I wasn't productive with what I said.  I basically put her on the spot and highlighted the behaviours, I wrote it down afterwards so that I don't do it again.  My exact words with her response... .

ME:

"So your in fear of me, rightly so I can understand that with allegations of stalking and harassment you should be if I were doing that, however they are false allegations.  But ignoring that, it will be resolved in court, lets concentration the in fear part at present.  Your in fear but you want to have hand-overs at our respective residences where you can continue to make these allegations and their is no accountability.  That to me is an oxymoron.  It's like your willingly putting both of us in that situation so that you can continue to be in fear and say what you will about my actions and my behaviours.  That to me isn't rational thinking, it shows a lack of fear." 

exBPDgf:

"Fine lets do hand overs at a Police station, let's do that.  Nothing can protect me from you, Ill never be safe." 

ME:

"So here two polar opposites, lets not make this change that is one where accountability is in place, with a public place such as mc donalds.  Lets go to the other full end of the spectrum and now your playing the victim like I have put you in this place, I am putting you into a corner where you have no other choice... .  I am sorry but this has been your choice, and again, it is an extreame choice, however if you are genuinely in fear why not take that opportunity sooner of a public place.  To me, it seems very controlling, dictating what will and wont happen, I feel like I have no say here." 

exBPDgf:

"Your manipulating me and twisting fact's, I cant trust you, their is no trust." 

ME:

"5 minutes ago you wanted us to talk at hand-overs and be pleasant with each other, I repeat that I haven't spoken to you in over 9 months in any form other than e-mail because of accusations such as this.  I think I highlighted how it felt where one minute I am getting a happy welcoming atmosphere, the next I am getting a cold hostile atmosphere.  I feel like I am walking on eggshells again here.  I hope you understand but 5 minutes ago you wanted us to talk, now you cant trust me and it has to be a Police station... .  "

exBPDgf:

----silence----

ME:

"I don't want to argue, so Police stations it is.  Are you able to justify and explain your position to me, hopefully you can defend it as well when I ask a few questions as to the reasoning behind that choice that you have just made going from one opposite to the other.  Basically are you able to help me understand what your thinking is at the moment." 

exBPDgf:

----silence----

Counselor

What do you think, Police Station AJJ, are you happy with that as a compromise. 

ME:

"What compromise is that, I have to ask or pose that question.  I am happy that their will be some accountability and I wont have these outlandish untrue accusations against me due to that accountability.  I am also at a loss as to how I cant be trusted and I can't be protected from yet their is an expectation that I talk to exBPDgf and trust her not to make accusations such as this against me.  A Police station will protect me from these accusations, A Police station will have to do as for 20 minutes their has been nothing but roadblocks to rational attempts to find a solution and this is really draining me not moving from this one single topic."

Counselor:

----silence and looks at exBPDgf with a very blank look---- "Thankyou AJJ now moving on." 

I am amazed at the lack of insight that she has shown, its fight over everything and solve nothing, she is educated and very book smart but keeps walking into these things.  After this 5 minutes later she didn't want to do handovers at a Police station.  She said something about my family and I walked out saying I needed a break, I couldn't sit in the room with her. 

My Psychologist just about wet himself when I explained it and then told me off for spelling it out so bluntly.  My new strategy is just 1 word responses, bugger everything else off not get involved in the drama.  I am not allowed to highlight any of this thinking until after the deposition... .

I have another one of these sessions booked when there is a "mutually agreeable time" between us.  I have said, any time, I will take ti off court I just want to get it sorted out, she didnt have any free tim for the next 2 months in her diary... .

It hurts so much. 


AJJ. 

[Aussie JJ]

Ok,

Trying to keep everything on the straight and narrow, I'm popping in to read every now and then.  Mostly trying to forget about BPD as much as possible.  I had the equivalent of a co-parenting counsellor meeting, most painful and horrendous thing I have ever been through.  The counsellor gets it, I just can see it so point blank.  The black and white thinking, ambushing me with things and then playing the victim to shift the goal posts. 

It has taken me 3 days to calm down from the BS associated with it all.  I actually walked out of the meeting at one point where I just couldn't sit their.  I was about to go off my rocker, she knows my buttons and I am determined not to let it get the best of me in many respects. 

I am holding so much back that I just want to unleash with.  I am waiting until the deposition, their were one or two things that went down that essentially stumped her and had her sitting their in a dissociative state. 

I had one minute where I just felt like an arsehole afterwards as I know I wasn't productive with what I said.  I basically put her on the spot and highlighted the behaviours, I wrote it down afterwards so that I don't do it again.  My exact words with her response... .

ME:

"So your in fear of me, rightly so I can understand that with allegations of stalking and harassment you should be if I were doing that, however they are false allegations.  But ignoring that, it will be resolved in court, lets concentration the in fear part at present.  Your in fear but you want to have hand-overs at our respective residences where you can continue to make these allegations and their is no accountability.  That to me is an oxymoron.  It's like your willingly putting both of us in that situation so that you can continue to be in fear and say what you will about my actions and my behaviours.  That to me isn't rational thinking, it shows a lack of fear." 

exBPDgf:

"Fine lets do hand overs at a Police station, let's do that.  Nothing can protect me from you, Ill never be safe." 

ME:

"So here two polar opposites, lets not make this change that is one where accountability is in place, with a public place such as mc donalds.  Lets go to the other full end of the spectrum and now your playing the victim like I have put you in this place, I am putting you into a corner where you have no other choice... .  I am sorry but this has been your choice, and again, it is an extreame choice, however if you are genuinely in fear why not take that opportunity sooner of a public place.  To me, it seems very controlling, dictating what will and wont happen, I feel like I have no say here." 

exBPDgf:

"Your manipulating me and twisting fact's, I cant trust you, their is no trust." 

ME:

"5 minutes ago you wanted us to talk at hand-overs and be pleasant with each other, I repeat that I haven't spoken to you in over 9 months in any form other than e-mail because of accusations such as this.  I think I highlighted how it felt where one minute I am getting a happy welcoming atmosphere, the next I am getting a cold hostile atmosphere.  I feel like I am walking on eggshells again here.  I hope you understand but 5 minutes ago you wanted us to talk, now you cant trust me and it has to be a Police station... .  "

exBPDgf:

----silence----

ME:

"I don't want to argue, so Police stations it is.  Are you able to justify and explain your position to me, hopefully you can defend it as well when I ask a few questions as to the reasoning behind that choice that you have just made going from one opposite to the other.  Basically are you able to help me understand what your thinking is at the moment." 

exBPDgf:

----silence----

Counselor

What do you think, Police Station AJJ, are you happy with that as a compromise. 

ME:

"What compromise is that, I have to ask or pose that question.  I am happy that their will be some accountability and I wont have these outlandish untrue accusations against me due to that accountability.  I am also at a loss as to how I cant be trusted and I can't be protected from yet their is an expectation that I talk to exBPDgf and trust her not to make accusations such as this against me.  A Police station will protect me from these accusations, A Police station will have to do as for 20 minutes their has been nothing but roadblocks to rational attempts to find a solution and this is really draining me not moving from this one single topic."

Counselor:

----silence and looks at exBPDgf with a very blank look---- "Thankyou AJJ now moving on." 

I am amazed at the lack of insight that she has shown, its fight over everything and solve nothing, she is educated and very book smart but keeps walking into these things.  After this 5 minutes later she didn't want to do handovers at a Police station.  She said something about my family and I walked out saying I needed a break, I couldn't sit in the room with her. 

My Psychologist just about wet himself when I explained it and then told me off for spelling it out so bluntly.  My new strategy is just 1 word responses, bugger everything else off not get involved in the drama.  I am not allowed to highlight any of this thinking until after the deposition... .

I have another one of these sessions booked when there is a "mutually agreeable time" between us.  I have said, any time, I will take ti off court I just want to get it sorted out, she didnt have any free tim for the next 2 months in her diary... .

It hurts so much. 


AJJ. 

[rarsweet]

Wow that is almost word for word conversations with my ex.crazy how pwBPD  are so alike. The police station is very good protection for you. Doesn't it feel as if you are having a conversation with a kindergartner? Its like a kid who wants to go play in the snow, but doesn't want to put their boots on.

[ForeverDad]

With someone so blaming and obstructive, it does not good to try reasoning with her.  Due to the past close relationship - where all ended relationships are characterized as abusive - she can't/won't listen to you, her perception of the ended relationship's emotional baggage gets in her way.  The only reason to have done some of that would have been for the benefit of the counselor, if perceptive enough, to see the dysfunction, posturing, extremes in thinking, feelings=fact 'logic', blaming and blame shifting.

Exchanges at the police station is a common solution to reduce exchange incidents and claims but (1) it often is inconvenient due to location and (2) may be an attempt to paint her as victim/target.  I did exchanges at my sheriff's office some 10 miles away - if school or daycare wasn't possible- until ex moved and she then lived twice as far away than I did.

Edit:  Then we changed the exchanges to a restaurant or gas station parking lot that was midway between our residences.  If you do exchanges at the police station, be aware she may later ask for exceptions that are convenient to her but make you go out of your way or she will deny your requests for exceptions.  No reciprocity.  And make sure the location change does not state it is due to any misbehavior on your part.

I can understand your legal team saying to wait until depositions are done so that you don't give her any advance clues to her poor behaviors that might be of concern or actionable in court and with other professionals.

[Aussie JJ]

To be honest, I have been asking for 4 months for accountability.  It is all documented.  But the polar flip, to go from obstructing it to just the total opposite.  For me it is quite obvious with all the e-mails that it has been me asking for this protection, if she brings it up that she "needed" it to protect herself etc, their will be a real difficulty to defend that position.  It goes against other arguments she has had around convenience etc that is all documented. 

I was holding back a lot on many different things, just kept saying lets concentrate on the future over and over like a broken record. 

I also at the behest of my lawyer sent through one example that I have done with medical matters, all spelled out behaviourally in a pattern, broken down.  It is obvious to see when it is spelled out however she is claiming I ignored medical advice etc.  Basically proving I didn't do this and highlighting she actually did this.  She has lied so blatantly, I also said this to her and then said I wouldn't talk about it until she provided documented proof.  I have provided that documented proof to the counsellor, not her. 

I know on the other boards attachment leads to pain and all of that.  Surprisingly after all of this I can still see in some way shape or form I am attached, I have a huge amount of anger however their is still some empathy their for her.  It is hard to explain.  Towards the end of the session I was spent from not engaging and basically having so much heaped on me. 

Lawyer has one disagreement with me that I would hope to seek advice on, your views here are appreciated.  His preference is to be an open slate with everything.  Not obstruct anything.  So all my medical files etc are ready and he wants to hand them over (including psychologist's notes, he handed everything over, apparently this isn't a common thing, some very personal stuff in there).  My view is have them ready (give them to the independent children lawyer and different professionals involved) but not to her.  If she wants it we can do an exchange of records, she can provide her full medical history as well. 

I know she isn't going to hand it over.  He has a different view to me on this.  He says let her attack while we ask questions.  When she doesn't have answers or provide details use the courts to basically force her to. 

He has highlighted the benefits of both ways forward:

• being open - we cant be told off at all and we can get the full support of the courts to get her files



• exchange - we get a half hearted response from her and we don't get the full support of the courts to open her files up as we have been obstructing as well

I see his point, his view is it will cost more his way however get a better long term result.  My view is.  When the judge orders it we can hand it over on the spot and then still get her chastised as she hasn't provided what we know exists.  Your experiences appreciated. 


AJJ. 

[livednlearned]

I know on the other boards attachment leads to pain and all of that.  Surprisingly after all of this I can still see in some way shape or form I am attached, I have a huge amount of anger however their is still some empathy their for her.  It is hard to explain.

To have only anger would be to split her black -- to see her as all bad. This black/white thinking is one of the reasons people with BPD have unstable interpersonal relationships, the push/pull. It sounds like you are able to feel anger toward her behavior, and to also feel empathy that she suffers from a crippling mental illness. She wants what everyone wants, but does not have the skills or self-awareness, only the fear and overwhelming feelings. It's tragic, really. It gets easier to hold these two feelings together -- anger and empathy -- after the ordeals in family court are over. You are being raked over the coals right now, exposing highly personal information to strangers who are judging you, with serious consequences for both you and your child. Anger is an appropriate feeling, and is probably protecting you, giving you energy to propel you through this. Having empathy is a sign that you have emotional depth and maturity, and it may predict that you will grow. If you only felt anger, it's more likely you would stay stuck.

Lawyer has one disagreement with me that I would hope to seek advice on, your views here are appreciated.  His preference is to be an open slate with everything.  Not obstruct anything.  So all my medical files etc are ready and he wants to hand them over (including psychologist's notes, he handed everything over, apparently this isn't a common thing, some very personal stuff in there).  My view is have them ready (give them to the independent children lawyer and different professionals involved) but not to her.  If she wants it we can do an exchange of records, she can provide her full medical history as well.  

Can you not subpoena this information?

I know she isn't going to hand it over.  He has a different view to me on this.  He says let her attack while we ask questions.  When she doesn't have answers or provide details use the courts to basically force her to.  

I found it difficult to have N/BPDx bring up my personal information -- healthy inclinations to see therapists throughout the years were turned into horrible allegations. It takes a lot of strength to endure that kind of public exposure. Do you feel this is something you can do?

He has highlighted the benefits of both ways forward:

• being open - we cant be told off at all and we can get the full support of the courts to get her files



• exchange - we get a half hearted response from her and we don't get the full support of the courts to open her files up as we have been obstructing as well

It sounds like your court does things different. Where I live, medical records can be subpoenaed and therapists can be called in to testify. It also sounds like your L is taking a gamble that your records will not be judged poorly by the judge, whereas her secrecy will. And that being secretive will make the judge focus on what she might be hiding. In which case, your way seems to get the same result without having to actually make your information public.

I see his point, his view is it will cost more his way however get a better long term result.  My view is.  When the judge orders it we can hand it over on the spot and then still get her chastised as she hasn't provided what we know exists.  Your experiences appreciated.  

I would go the distance to make sure my ex did not have access to my medical information without a direct exchange.

[maxen]

I know on the other boards attachment leads to pain and all of that.  Surprisingly after all of this I can still see in some way shape or form I am attached

after what mine did to me i was amazed to discover how deep the bonds can go. under those circumstances, attachment leads to pain, but detachment can't be manufactured or rushed. i found that passing some landmarks, and the simple passage of time, has led to detachment, which will increase but probably never be complete.

[david]

It took me about three years to detach enough to not take anything ex says or does personally. It was a process that I honestly believe helped me grow. I do remember the head spinning days when ex could say something and just get me all frazzled. It does get better.

[ForeverDad]

Lawyer has one disagreement with me that I would hope to seek advice on, your views here are appreciated.  His preference is to be an open slate with everything.  Not obstruct anything.  So all my medical files etc are ready and he wants to hand them over (including psychologist's notes, he handed everything over, apparently this isn't a common thing, some very personal stuff in there).  My view is have them ready (give them to the independent children lawyer and different professionals involved) but not to her.  If she wants it we can do an exchange of records, she can provide her full medical history as well.

Can you not subpoena this information?

I know she isn't going to hand it over.  He has a different view to me on this.  He says let her attack while we ask questions.  When she doesn't have answers or provide details use the courts to basically force her to.

I found it difficult to have N/BPDx bring up my personal information -- healthy inclinations to see therapists throughout the years were turned into horrible allegations. It takes a lot of strength to endure that kind of public exposure. Do you feel this is something you can do?

He has highlighted the benefits of both ways forward:

• being open - we cant be told off at all and we can get the full support of the courts to get her files



• exchange - we get a half hearted response from her and we don't get the full support of the courts to open her files up as we have been obstructing as well

It sounds like your court does things different. Where I live, medical records can be subpoenaed and therapists can be called in to testify. It also sounds like your L is taking a gamble that your records will not be judged poorly by the judge, whereas her secrecy will. And that being secretive will make the judge focus on what she might be hiding. In which case, your way seems to get the same result without having to actually make your information public.

I see his point, his view is it will cost more his way however get a better long term result.  My view is.  When the judge orders it we can hand it over on the spot and then still get her chastised as she hasn't provided what we know exists.  Your experiences appreciated.

I would go the distance to make sure my ex did not have access to my medical information without a direct exchange.

I too feel the informed and experienced method is to seek to exchange the data.  My ex managed to avoid providing information and no one forced her to comply.  Multiple times I provided my data and either they skipped her requirement or they imputed default values.  Maybe my case didn't go that far down that road, but I wonder whether you should hand over your data knowing she can and probably will just ignore everyone.

How would you look bad if your lawyer was stating, "we have father's information, let's exchange"?  I'd think you'd be seen as naive if you provided your info and then protested she didn't provide hers.

[Sunfl0wer]

I'm not familiar with your story, so I apologize if I'm a bit out of sync in my response, however... .

I feel compelled to share the following caution:

Just after several court appearances, the "final" one, when exBF and I won pretty much full custody in court, made her look like a fool because she was stumped on the stand, purged herself on the stand, we celebrated the new beginning of our lives, thinking it was all behind us... .

This was farthest from the truth.

I imagine that she spent every waking moment reviewing the transcripts of that day, plotting to "undo" the shame she felt that day.  (As future emails revealed similar language taken from that court day). She had a clear plan to vindicate herself and destroy us.  (We know from emails to SD)

The day that we thought was the first day of the rest of our lives, turned out to be the turning point for her.

She upped her vengeance towards us and went full force, to new lows we never thought she would stoop to.  I never worried too much, I comforted myself in the idea that if she went crazy, well, good for us, she'd be in jail or hospital.  We thought it would be easy to defend against false accusations.  However, it was harder and more taxing than we ever imagined.  When we realized that she was willing to try to brainwash D in believing false thoughts and training her to be paranoid and suspicious of us... .well... .long story short... .SD ended up in a psychiatric ward.  We really could not protect her from her own thoughts that mom implanted.

I used to believe, that as long as we were fighting hard, that it would all work out.  Now, I believe, that sometimes the battle causes more damage than the victory. 

Of course, not to project this end on anyone else, but just a word of caution and awareness of a perspective that I was not aware of back then, although, I still wouldn't know what to do with it.

[Aussie JJ]

Thankyou all,

My solicitor has the view that we have the means to make her look really bad in court when she doesn't provide the details.  The details are being subpoenaed.  He wants contempt of court when she fails to provide some details that we don't believe she will disclose.  Specifically being hospitalized and a psychologist and psychiatrist that she wont want to disclose. 

His view, let her dig a bloody big hole with denial and accusations.  Request it, have the information denied and he says we may find more when she is complacent and tries to avoid it by getting the court to go fishing through her medical records instead of her providing them.  If she provides them she may provide half the story and we will be missing the other half. 

He says an exchange can look reasonable however also petty in many respects.  Just be open and appear open, transparent and essentially a reasonable person in front of the judge. 

Difference here I think for mine (she has been diagnosed... .  It exists)

In his view its getting the denial flat out from her so we can say she isn't going to change.  Lack of insight, willingness to change and all of that stuff. 

I think an in between approach is the best option.  He really wants the contempt of court for the intervention order stuff so we can go in and say, "look at this, she lied". 


AJJ. 

[Aussie JJ]

I found it difficult to have N/BPDx bring up my personal information -- healthy inclinations to see therapists throughout the years were turned into horrible allegations. It takes a lot of strength to endure that kind of public exposure. Do you feel this is something you can do?

I have been through so much, I really am not phased by a little more, I know I wont curl up and run from it any more.  There isn't a whole lot more she can throw at me other than saying I am harming my son in some way shape or form (to imply it directly).  What triggers me is her denigrating my relationship with my son, making it out to be unimportant or of less value than his relationship with her extended family.  I have to get over the way she talks about the importance of my relationship with him.  Basically that makes me just want to point out the hypocrisy and start ripping into her. 

Walking away helps here and I am able to practice it basically.  A lot easier for me to control this and also to have it turned back on her if she makes these claims. 


AJJ. 

[livednlearned]

He says an exchange can look reasonable however also petty in many respects.  Just be open and appear open, transparent and essentially a reasonable person in front of the judge. 

Difference here I think for mine (she has been diagnosed... .  It exists)

In his view its getting the denial flat out from her so we can say she isn't going to change.  Lack of insight, willingness to change and all of that stuff. 

I think an in between approach is the best option.  He really wants the contempt of court for the intervention order stuff so we can go in and say, "look at this, she lied".

This is not just about pointing out that she has a serious mental health diagnosis, but that she is not willing to get treatment? And in fact she will not put forth her records (as you are willing to do). Your lawyer is saying, "My client has nothing to hide. These are his records. The opposing party, on the other hand, will not comply." Was she ordered to present these records?

So the strategy is to defend yourself by being open and transparent, and to use her inability to comply, especially in terms of her own mental health issues, as the turning point -- therefore she would then end up on the defensive, turning things around in court.

Will it be enough to show that she is hiding something serious? Will you need to have it spelled out exactly how BPD impairs her ability to parent?

[Sunfl0wer]

There was no Dx in our case.  (Also, we are in USA.)  You are way ahead!  I wish you the best!  I sincerely hope for you the outcome that we never got!  Keep us posted!

[Aussie JJ]

She stopped DBT therapy when they told her she had BPD... .  When she was pregnant. 

She has on medical, ignored doctors advice on three documented occasions.  Maybe four however the fourth I am unsure of 100%.  All of these in relation to our son, not to mention her own issues. 

On Psychological, her new BF was studying clinical psychology (early last year).  She had him giving advice on what was and wasn't appropriate for visitation with our son and myself, yet in e-mails refereed to it as her psychologist who was providing the advice.  She wont be able to provide a reference or a report as they have since broken up, hard to explain how someone not registered, who your romantically involved with can have a neutral view that you take on board and is in a child's best interests. 

She has attacked my psychologist in numerous separate complaints to the body that registers psychologists to practice.  One of the complaints got through and he was reprimanded.  With this complaint he actually told them they would have to reprimand him as it was unethical for him to defend the position as he had to protect his client's (mine) confidentiality, he was placed in a position where to defend himself he would have to disclose the complaint to me (ordered by the registered body not to do so) and secondly open up my files about what had and hadn't been discussed between us.  Now that these files are unlocked on my end through family court he will be fighting that accusation as it is no longer confidential.  I am unsure of what he is doing but essentially he said, don't worry it isn't my problem, he will use the deposition for his own defence form my family court issues. 

All of her actions in relation to medical my psychologist has kindly worked the questions to spell out the behaviour from previous court cases he has been involved in, he is a court reporter himself.  Along with multiple other things that have sort of loaded the bases where I have done some work myself to include triggers in amongst the questions. 

She has raised more questions than answers. 

Yes, my lawyer basically wants to make me an open slather and let her "emotionally" attack me and degrade me, then label it as abuse.  Then ask how healthy this is for my son, backed up by a whole raft of research. 

She still hasn't picked from the three court registered psychologists we provided the names of.  Nor the family evaluators.  The family evaluators provided 2 are very good, one is in my own solicitors words not perfect as historically has made some questionable decisions.  The three for individual assessment people are ALL family report writers themselves (they can describe how the behaviours will effect the children) and two of them practice privately helping pwBPD and their children with attachment issues, the third ran a prison program for DBT skills for the previous 12 years along with court reporting on the inmates.  He had a preference to ensuring that their was no chance of her picking a person who didn't understand and work with BPD for her individual psych evaluation hence the wishy washy evaluator thrown in the mix. 

Their is one thing he has done to sort of nudge her towards the evaluator we want, mentioned that he costs more however is very reputable so we will include him.  The thought of it costing more and her knowing I will pay will hopefully sway her here to "emotionally" pick this person even though the fees are all the standard rate recommended or stipulated by court on a hourly basis. 

She is basically doing nothing and letting it drag out.  Yes, court has ordered that we hand everything over in the next 6 weeks with questions to be raised by opposing parties after two weeks and all files confirmed handed over within 12 weeks blah blah blah then we can question what has and hasn't been done.  I cant remember the wording but very formal. 


AJJ. 

[livednlearned]

Yes, my lawyer basically wants to make me an open slather and let her "emotionally" attack me and degrade me, then label it as abuse.  Then ask how healthy this is for my son, backed up by a whole raft of research.  

Your L is thinking strategically, he is obviously all in -- that's how it seems anyway, from way out here on the Internet. I do question the open slather, if I am understanding correctly. You will expose all of your personal emotional/psychological information, in exchange for drawing out her egregious behavior in front of the judge. But if you are ok with it, then that's what matters. It's having personal documents out there that would concern me, with your ex having access to them, not knowing how she might use them after the trial. The way they handled confidential information in my trial is that only the Ls had access. In my case, it was N/BPDx's psych eval.

My L told me in her office, "The psychiatrist wrote that she could not rule out the existence of a personality disorder." Then L hit all the high points and I scribbled notes as she talked. When we were in court, N/BPDx gave me permission to keep a copy. Strangest moment, I still can't explain his thinking with that one.

Is it possible to put some constraints on the personal documentation related to your case? So you stick with the same strategy, but prevent highly personal docs from being reproduced and circulated to your ex.

[Nope]

Is it possible to put some constraints on the personal documentation related to your case? So you stick with the same strategy, but prevent highly personal docs from being reproduced and circulated to your ex.

In my case, the kids uBPD mom is now representing herself. She had an L during the custody battle and lots and lots of evidence had been handed over to that L during discovery. The BPD mom now has copies of every single thing from that trial in her posession for any old personal use she decides to use it for. Nice, huh?

[ForeverDad]

In my case, the kids uBPD mom is now representing herself. She had an L during the custody battle and lots and lots of evidence had been handed over to that L during discovery. The BPD mom now has copies of every single thing from that trial in her posession for any old personal use she decides to use it for. Nice, huh?

I guess she would have had access to all the documents presented to the court during the case, but now she can see anything the prior lawyers had received, including the inter-lawyer communications?  Ouch!

Sidebar here, just for a moment, a sore nerve got bumped... .  I recall once or twice my ex went to court representing herself, she was in between lawyers.  Looking back, she likely didn't ask for her prior attorney's records.  Still, I felt it was an injustice if a sidebar was declared, judge's chambers was requested (no chambers so I would have been told to leave the hearing room) or a pre-trial held for the 'lawyers'.  I felt that if I were excluded simply because I had a lawyer and she wasn't excluded because she didn't then that would be grossly unfair to the excluded parent.  "You're not acting as your own lawyer like your ex is so ex can stay but you have to leave."  But not unfair in the eyes of the legal/judicial system.  It's judicial system that can be used and misused, not a justice system.

I know some members here, though, have lived this.

[Nope]

In my case, the kids uBPD mom is now representing herself. She had an L during the custody battle and lots and lots of evidence had been handed over to that L during discovery. The BPD mom now has copies of every single thing from that trial in her posession for any old personal use she decides to use it for. Nice, huh?

I guess she would have had access to all the documents presented to the court during the case, but now she can see anything the prior lawyers had received, including the inter-lawyer communications?  Ouch!

Copies of all L communications, copies of DH's tax returns, pay stubs, and W2s for determining CS (glad I was paranoid enough to black out his SSN on everything before our L even got them), copies of every recording, every record, the whole nine yards. It's funny because she's only used any of it once that I know of and it was a cringe worthy moment for her more than anyone else:

One of the things submitted to the court by our L was a lengthy summary of the issues we have with her parenting. Including the fact that she created conflict whenever possible and couldn't be counted on to promote a good relationship between DH and the kids. In the summary DH pointed out that if the kids lived with us he would be willing to do his part to make sure they still had an ongoing relationship with their mother. So in an email where she was complaining that she wanted an exact call time with the kids and refused to be flexible (like the order said she should be) she threw in there the statement; "YOUR the one who said you would promote a good relationship with the other parent, not me. So deal with it."