So close to the end, but don't want it

[witsendafter10]

Hi guys,

I'm a male in my 30's that is at my wits end after nearly 10 years together (7 married). This is my first marriage and my wife's second (she is 42). We have 3 wonderful girls (16,15, and 5). The older ones are from my wife's first marriage and the 5 year old is ours together. I'm considered "dad" at home even though the older girls know that we aren't blood relatives. Anyway, our relationship started out amazingly just like most others do. Steadily that has been deteriorating and is now to the point where I have dropped the final ultimatum of therapy or I leave. I have refrained from telling her that she has what I VERY STRONGLY feel is BPD as I've read that that is particularly harmful, but she literally fits the diagnosis to near perfection. Up to this point, she has absolutely refused therapy because in her mind it's psychobabble that has a terrible success rate.  :)uring the rare lucid times when she will actually discuss her true fears and feelings with me she admits that she is terrified of being found "guilty" or "broken". Don't get me wrong, I just found BPD and am still learning a lot, but everything is starting to make so much more sense to me.  I'm babbling, but here is my quick relationship story:

Relationship started hot and heavy. Sex was incredible. She was older, attractive, incredibly intelligent, and successful. I clicked extremely well with her kids and fell in love with the entire family. Life was looking up!

She started opening up to me about her ex and her divorce. He sounds like a TERRIBLE guy. Alcoholic, diagnosed manic depressive, in and out of his relationship with his young girls and sometimes gone for 6 months at a time. I heard stories of him threatening suicide in their house while they were separated. He wanted the girls to find his body so they would forever know what kind of a monster their mom was. He killed their fish! I feel incredibly sorry for this poor, emotionally abused woman.

She also opens up to me about her relationship with her family. Her mom and dad split up when she turned 18. She was the oldest of 3 girls, her dad was a politician and business owner, and her mom tried several business ventures that ultimately failed. She describes her mom as a very angry person that would make the kids wait for hours bent over a fireplace waiting for their dad to belt them for whatever transgressions were either done or perceived. Ultimately, the mom gave the kids the ultimatum of "him or me". The kids chose the father and destroyed the relationship with their mother. Her 3 sisters started rebuilding that relationship several years after, but not my wife. She went 20 years without speaking to her mother (eventually through coaxing from myself and her sisters started that process about 5 years ago. About 10-15 years after her sisters).

So, I see some baggage, and will never understand the broken family dynamic. But shoot, everybody had baggage! I have a very close family. My parents are still together, but after an affair that nearly broke them apart when I was in junior high. I idolized both of them for sticking it out, and they seem very happy now, but it was a difficult road to recovery for them both... .Anyway, I see some baggage, but I am head over heals in love. Plus, I'm a people pleaser so I'm bound and determined to break down the walls that she had built up and show her what a real, loving relationship was like! We had had several blow out fights that I could never fully understand or win, but nothing we couldn't recover from. I remember telling her clear back then that I didn't know if I was more miserable with or without her. That generated some meaningful conversation and we agreed that being together was still in both our best interests

We get engaged in front of her kids at a waterfall in Costa Rica! Woohoo! We fight through the details of wedding planning. There are some big fights, but again, not TOO bad. They typically left me feeling confused, but hey, she KNOWS marriage. I typically defaulted to her regardless of how I felt. She has done it before. She has more life experience. Plus, I'm a drinker (still am) and alcohol could be the basis of our problems. We are just having normal relationship issues and working things out.

We get married in front of 200 hundred of our closest friends and family! We are blissful! Sometimes... .There are DEFINITELY more good times than bad, but something about the way we fight seems out of control and there is nothing I can do to reign it in. I continue to default to her and apologize all over myself to keep the peace. Usually it works! Sometimes she doesn't speak to me for a day or two, but we always get over it and hug it out eventually We are madly in love and love conquers all. When we fight, we are just working out some kinks, right? Right!

We have our beautiful baby girl and I truly realize what parenthood feels like. I love my step daughters implicitly, but this is a a new kind of connection for me. We are a happy family! Still have some fights, still make the same excuses, but we always persevere. I think we are a pretty happy family. My parents think we fight too much, but I blow it off like "whatever" I'm in LOVE!

The next chapter starts with a fire that took our home that we had essentially built together PRIOR to even being married, along with all of our belongings. We have to live with my parents while we try to "rebuild" our lives. This is when things started getting a little darker. I started feeling like nothing I did was right. I started becoming afraid of making decisions, even when time was of the essence, because I feared spousal repercussion. Anyone I talked to said it was just an extremely emotional and hurtful experience and I agreed. Looking back, this is when I feel she started distancing herself from me and the anger started kicking in to a much higher degree. I was trying so hard to make her happy. Giving her everything I thought she wanted, working hours on end trying to finish our house (she was right there with me, along with my parents), and trying to listen and understand her unhappiness. I went to counseling for myself to hopefully help our marriage and MY reactions to a major life disaster (the fire). Mostly, she frowned upon me going to therapy, but I enjoyed it and continued. My therapist told me he was proud of me for taking that step and confirmed my feelings that I was mostly a decent guy and not the cause of all her problems. Yay! Self affirmation!

We move into our newly remodeled, beautiful home. Things are OK. We still have some great times, for sure. Go on vacations together, some just us, some with the kids. Usually getting out of town involved a fight, but I was used to that. Looking back, though, they lasted a lot longer than what they did when I was growing up with my parents and brother... .The trips with just the two of us usually started well, but the first sign of discourse could ruin a week in Mexico between us. I start to notice that we are fighting pretty regularly and escalating. Now we fight in front of the kids. I feel like I'm being antagonized into retaliation and I say some nasty things in near rages, but I regain control pretty quickly. I apologize and try to pick up the pieces. I feel like her anger just won't go away and that I am always the cause of it. Maybe I AM a bad guy. No one else in my life thinks so... .I'm a people pleaser so I'm constantly trying to get people to like me. I NEVER want anyone mad at me. I start suggesting marriage counseling. Starts another fight. I'm not sure how to progress our relationship or how to fix things. I start getting pretty unhappy and desperate.

Now my sweet, beautiful, loving wife is diagnosed with depression. This explains her anger and I just need to bear with her while she is balancing out. It's explained to me that a chemical imbalance is the problem. I research the crap out of depression and try to do the things I learn online and from discussing with my wife how best to deal with things. Usually when fights started they still escalated, sometimes even more than before. According to her, this is because I clearly don't understand depression. I start getting upset because it feels like everything I try results in a fight. Also, her sex drive is gone. This is due to the medication, but I struglle initiating sex due to rejection from past experiences. I've actually tried very hard to initiate sex through her depression, but nearly always fail in my attempt in some way. Now she claims she doesn't really respect me as a man. She tells me I have to EARN her respect. I guess it's not enough to try and offer support that is rejected, do my best to maintain the house (laundry, cooking, cleaning), and do the projects that she finds important. I start to feel a little sorry for myself, but before I go to the dark place I try to gain some self power and start putting my foot down. This NEVER ended well and never earned the respect I was desperately craving from her. She still says it's my fault because I don't understand depression and don't offer the support she desperately needs. I AM the bad guy!

Back to therapy, this time to both get marriage advice and use EMDR to quit drinking because maybe THAT'S the problem in our relationship! I quit drinking for a couple months to see if that solves everything. No such luck. Things are actually deteriorating a little more. Sex is harder and harder to have and usually results in one party feeling unhappy. I decide to take sex off the table for a while to see if that helps. Once we tried to start again I kind of fricked things up by wallowing in self pity after I couldn't get her interested in sex. It probably wasn't my best effort, but again, we both leave the situation feeling rejected. I used to drive her wild and don't know why I am no longer of any interest to her. I stop listening to suggestions she makes because typically I've tried them and been refjected. I don't like being rejected so I start to withdraw sexually. To help the situation, I start ___ing about it regularly. She reminds me that she is depressed and on meds. I argue that maybe she is on the WRONG meds and should go to therapy. Another big fight. We do that a lot now. The kids probably think we are killing each other every other day. We both feel that is completely out of control, but when the rage hits it can't be quieted. And then, eventually, it hits me too, and trust me I'm no angel. It takes me a while to get pissed, but once I'm there watch out. Not proud of it either.

Now to the near present: We survived the holidays. Thanksgiving was a massive challenge that almost saw us separating afterwards. I'm having a harder and harder time handling her mood swings and really don't tolerate them anymore. I've been dealing with them for nearly 5 years and have no patience for them. When she is on Lexapro, we do OK, but sex is a major issue. When she is off her meds (she took frequent "holidays", we fight about her mood swings all the time and they get near to violent. We fight about sex. We fight about what's real and not real. We fight about who is right and who is wrong. The health of our relationship has deteriorated to a point where neither of us knows if we can salvage enough of our foundation to make things work. The last fight we had about sex was two weeks ago. She flushed her Lexapro and has stayed off them despite me begging and pleading that she get back on them. She is out of control and blames me for everything. Some days, after massive fights, she will break down and tell me she thinks she is losing it. That she has issues with therapy because it's so hurtful for her to feel broken. That she knows she is destroying us. That she is completely out of control, has no self-esteem, self hurts after arguments, refuses to express her real feelings, doesn't feel empathy, has zero emotional control and see's similar qualities in her as her mother as our now 16 year old daughter. Finally, I found BPD. I've been reading on it now for days. It's making more sense that as much as she makes me feel like I am crazy and that I can't do anything right, that that is a reflection on how she feels about herself. From what I understand, therapy is the only solution that has any kind of possible benefit. After a particularly ridiculous and out of control fight this past weekend I told her I was done if she wouldn't help herself. Told her I wanted a divorce and I did (I still think I SHOULD). I had 1.5 feet out the door. She left for about 3 hours and came back a puddle of tears willing to do anything to save our marriage. That's when I made the ultimatum: Therapy or I walk. She agreed. The next day I was a dried up well of spent emotions. I tried to converse with her. Tried to ask her for ways to reconnect. All she could say is that she wished I was happy and that we should focus on that. It got frustrating for me because I wanted her to open up to me. The next day I tried to keep a positive attitude and be as fun, and engaging as I could. In return I got what I would compare to an emotionless robot. I never got mad, but I was sad and I expressed that. Next thing you know, she has rejected the idea of therapy because I'm the ass that has made her this way. Then she is up for it again to keep me. Then we wake up in the morning and she gets pissed at me because I didn't clean the blender well enough and screams at our 5 year old for trying to put her dead fish in a baggie to bury. Then I get another apology via text and I tell her I love her so much, but can't continue jeopardizing my own sense of self by being around her if she won't go to therapy. Now we are at an impasse with an ultimatum on the table and a woman who may go to therapy but resents me for making her. I'm a mess and I don't know what to do. This relationship is destroying me, but I don't know if losing her and breaking our family up (and for the older girls for a SECOND time) is worse. Everyone who cares about me, including my therapist today, tell me I need to get out to preserve my sanity, but I'm just well, fit to be tied and kind of trapped. If I leave she might hurt herself. If I don't she might slowly destroy me. I don't know which way is up... .

Thanks,
witsend

[PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES]

PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members may appear frustrated but they are here for constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[ArleighBurke]

What a rollercoaster!

Whether it's BPD or not actually doesn't matter. There are a lot of people on this site in similar situations to you.

To make life better, I would suggest:
1) Learning about Validation. It's conversation technique to reduce friction. (link on the right->
2) Learn the SET method (Sympathy Empathy Truth). It combines validation with "your truth" to help conversations flow
3) Learn to have a thick skin. You didn't cause her BPD, you don't cause her flare ups. When she complains about stuff, it's probably got nothing to do with you. Trust yourself.
4) Take care of yourself. Make sure you have friends, do hobbies etc.
5) Get the book "stop walking on eggshells" - VERY good book about BPD and what you can do.
6) Post lots here! We are all full of answers... .

The skills to cope with living with her are actually very good overall life skills. Whether you end up with her long term or not, spending the time to work on your own emotional health now will help this relationship and your next.

[schwing]

Hi witsendafter10 and

Up to this point, she has absolutely refused therapy because in her mind it's psychobabble that has a terrible success rate.  During the rare lucid times when she will actually discuss her true fears and feelings with me she admits that she is terrified of being found "guilty" or "broken".

Consider that if your wife has Borderline Personality Disorder, one of the characteristics of this disorder is black and white thinking.  So for her, if she accepts that she has this disorder, she will see herself as "all black", or "guilty" and "broken" as you write. And the kind of depression and self-hatred that people with BPD (pwBPD) experience when they devalue themselves can be enough to drive some to suicide. The flip side of seeing herself as "all black" is to put the blame all on you and make you "all black" and herself "all white" (and a victim).  Until she develops emotional tools to manage her disorder feelings, these are the only two choices she will feel she has: either she is "wrong" or you are "wrong" with no other alternatives. I hope this clarifies the difficulty she has with accepting the disorder.

Next consider an idea/observation I have about pwBPD. That is, for pwBPD, feelings of intimacy and closeness seem to trigger their disorder feelings (of fear of abandonment/betrayal/denigration).

Relationship started hot and heavy. Sex was incredible. She was older, attractive, incredibly intelligent, and successful. I clicked extremely well with her kids and fell in love with the entire family. Life was looking up!

In the beginning of your relationship, you barely knew each other or were only beginning to get to know each other.  For her, her feelings of intimacy and closeness were only developing and not yet sufficient to trigger her disordered feelings.

So, I see some baggage, and will never understand the broken family dynamic. But shoot, everybody had baggage! ... .Plus, I'm a people pleaser so I'm bound and determined to break down the walls that she had built up and show her what a real, loving relationship was like!

Everybody does have some kind of baggage. But consider that there is baggage that you cannot intuitively understand.  After all, for you and I, feelings of intimacy and closeness draws us closer to our loved ones and not away (as I hypothesize may be the case for your ex).

We get engaged in front of her kids at a waterfall in Costa Rica! Woohoo! We fight through the details of wedding planning. There are some big fights, but again, not TOO bad.

So after you two got engaged, that probably cranked up the levels of intimacy and closeness in her mind. It would not be a surprise to me if that also coincided with an increase in the number of and intensity of the fights you were having.

We get married in front of 200 hundred of our closest friends and family! We are blissful! Sometimes... .There are DEFINITELY more good times than bad, but something about the way we fight seems out of control and there is nothing I can do to reign it in. I continue to default to her and apologize all over myself to keep the peace. Usually it works! Sometimes she doesn't speak to me for a day or two, but we always get over it and hug it out eventually

Again, after getting married, did the fights get worse?  And when you "default to her and apologize... ." what are you apologizing for?  Are you apologizing for how you are "making" her feel? Do the feelings she experience make sense or do they not seem to make sense to you, but you have noticed that when you accept the blame, she calms down?

The next chapter starts with a fire that took our home that we had essentially built together PRIOR to even being married, along with all of our belongings. We have to live with my parents while we try to "rebuild" our lives. This is when things started getting a little darker. I started feeling like nothing I did was right. I started becoming afraid of making decisions, even when time was of the essence, because I feared spousal repercussion. Anyone I talked to said it was just an extremely emotional and hurtful experience and I agreed. Looking back, this is when I feel she started distancing herself from me and the anger started kicking in to a much higher degree. 

Having children together will raise the level of intimacy and familiarity (i.e. like family).  And after surviving a tragedy like loosing a home together and having to rebuild that home together, this normally brings a family closer together, should it not?  But in the case of your wife "things started getting a little darker."  And how does she behave? She "started distancing herself from [you]." Why? Because "the anger started kicking in to a much higher degree."

The trips with just the two of us usually started well, but the first sign of discourse could ruin a week in Mexico between us. I start to notice that we are fighting pretty regularly and escalating. Now we fight in front of the kids. I feel like I'm being antagonized into retaliation and I say some nasty things in near rages, but I regain control pretty quickly. I apologize and try to pick up the pieces. I feel like her anger just won't go away and that I am always the cause of it. Maybe I AM a bad guy. No one else in my life thinks so... .I'm a people pleaser so I'm constantly trying to get people to like me. I NEVER want anyone mad at me. I start suggesting marriage counseling. Starts another fight. I'm not sure how to progress our relationship or how to fix things. I start getting pretty unhappy and desperate.

I understand your intention.  You wanted to take trips together to build rapport, to strengthen your relationship.  And for you (and I) if you do things to help you feel closer and more intimate towards your wife, you would feel your relationship become stronger. But she did not feel this way. In fact, her disordered feelings seem to have escalated.

Now my sweet, beautiful, loving wife is diagnosed with depression. This explains her anger and I just need to bear with her while she is balancing out. It's explained to me that a chemical imbalance is the problem. I research the crap out of depression and try to do the things I learn online and from discussing with my wife how best to deal with things. Usually when fights started they still escalated, sometimes even more than before. According to her, this is because I clearly don't understand depression.

I wonder if she accepted the diagnosis of depression because she knows it's not true? Or at least "fixing" depression is as simple as taking a pill and does not require her to look too deeply towards her own issues?  Moreover, she's still blaming you for not "understand[ing] depression."

... .I start getting upset because it feels like everything I try results in a fight. Also, her sex drive is gone. This is due to the medication, but I struglle initiating sex due to rejection from past experiences. I've actually tried very hard to initiate sex through her depression, but nearly always fail in my attempt in some way. Now she claims she doesn't really respect me as a man. She tells me I have to EARN her respect.

She said that she needed you to "EARN her respect."  That's what she said.  But I don't think that's what she meant.  I think she meant, she needs you to NO LONGER TRIGGER her disorder feelings.  Because her disordered feelings are causing her to no longer respect you.  Not your actions.  Not actions you have yet to do.  It's how she feels and she doesn't know how to communicate this in a way that clearly describes the problem as how she feels.  Because she doesn't accept how she feels as her problem.  She needs to see it as your fault.  Why?  Look back to my first paragraph.

Now to the near present: We survived the holidays. Thanksgiving was a massive challenge that almost saw us separating afterwards. I'm having a harder and harder time handling her mood swings and really don't tolerate them anymore. I've been dealing with them for nearly 5 years and have no patience for them.

At the risk of sounding like broken record (idiom from an older generation), holidays are occasions of family and closeness of family.  So does it make sense that the holidays can be a particular trigger for pwBPD?

Some days, after massive fights, she will break down and tell me she thinks she is losing it. That she has issues with therapy because it's so hurtful for her to feel broken. That she knows she is destroying us. That she is completely out of control, has no self-esteem, self hurts after arguments, refuses to express her real feelings, doesn't feel empathy, has zero emotional control and see's similar qualities in her as her mother as our now 16 year old daughter.

And here is a flicker of hope. She explains her fears.  She explains her difficulty.  But do not underestimate her ability to "forget" or deny these thoughts.  Denial is a defense mechanism. When she feels too hopeless, for now, her alternative is to blame you.  That is her choice: "hopelessness" or blame you.

... .I tried to converse with her. Tried to ask her for ways to reconnect. All she could say is that she wished I was happy and that we should focus on that. It got frustrating for me because I wanted her to open up to me. The next day I tried to keep a positive attitude and be as fun, and engaging as I could. In return I got what I would compare to an emotionless robot. I never got mad, but I was sad and I expressed that. Next thing you know, she has rejected the idea of therapy because I'm the ass that has made her this way. Then she is up for it again to keep me. Then we wake up in the morning and she gets pissed at me because I didn't clean the blender well enough and screams at our 5 year old for trying to put her dead fish in a baggie to bury. Then I get another apology via text and I tell her I love her so much, but can't continue jeopardizing my own sense of self by being around her if she won't go to therapy.

Therapy works when the person seeking the therapy is really trying to look into themselves and way/how what they are doing is contributing to the unhappiness of their lives and the lives of their family members.  But it is also hard.  Because for now, the choice for her is "hopelessness" (because of self-devaluation) or to blame you. And until she develops tools in therapy to combat the hopelessness, she is probably just going to choose to blame you because it is easier.

My suggestion for now is to focus on yourself.  If possible try to maintain as stable a family life as possible and you can do this by keeping your distance from your wife.  Don't reject her, but don't draw her too close. I know you would prefer to have things be as they once were with her.  But you cannot seek support from someone who probably needs more support than yourself.

See how she fare in therapy.  See what comes of it.  But also focus on taking care of yourself and your family.

I hope some of what I wrote is helpful to you.

Best wishes,

Schwing

[witsendafter10]

It's a New Year with the same set of problems. I am in the same situation again and I had all but forgotten about my post here from a year ago. It was nice to revisit again as I'm having the same struggles concerning my own sanity. I really wanted to thank those of you who responded to this and let you both know how much it was appreciated. I apologize for not having gotten back with you, but your words and perspectives are so very helpful. Keep on keeping on everyone. May we all do what we can to lead a happy and productive life

[pearlsw]

Wow. You really made this one giant, enthralling post... .and forgot it? Um, and a year later you are in the same situation? Did you get a chance to try any of the communication tools here? I really hope you stick around because maybe collectively we can all help you a bit! 

[witsendafter10]

No, I didn't forget it. I guess I just got stuck dealing with the immediate at the time, and when things settled down at home, I moved on. Honestly, it's scarily easy for me to forget (or at least want to forget) the bad when things aren't quite so crazy. I didn't go into details of my current situation, but the holidays were extremely hard once again. I'm actually not living (mostly just not staying/ sleeping) at home right now and am really balancing a fine line of being there for my kids, but also keeping enough distance to protect myself to some degree. Here's where I am just to shed some more light and now I would really like to stay engaged with the group. I apologize for getting away from it for so long and wish I would have stuck around.

The holidays triggered more misery. Maybe it's the holidays. Most likely it's BPD, though. Two therapists have suggested it's a very potential problem. My family is convinced. Her family won't hardly speak to her and are trying to talk me into leaving. This all breaks my heart. When I'm around her my love takes over and I can't see the flaws as well. All I know is that I'm no longer living at home and I've issued my final ultimatum. Intensive therapy that I ALSO get to be involved in or Residential Treatment (all advice from therapists). I may have blown it, but I finally told her I suspected she had BPD. This hasn't gone that well. We are still on speaking terms, though, and I spend a lot of time at home with the kids and trying to help her with her surgery. Help isn't appreciated, but I can't live with the guilt of completely bailing on her right now.

I'm finding that love is truly irrational. I want so bad to make things work and am doing everything I have out of sincere love. I don't know what will happen from here, but I'm letting things cool down before I keep pushing. There isn't a whole lot of fight left in this dog, though. I'm addicted to someone I strongly feel is a borderline and have lived away from her for nearly a week now. It's been the hardest week of my life.

To answer your question, yes I have read on communication. I HAVE NOT mastered the skills yet. I still have faith and love and am more committed to my path than ever before. I am also more realistic than ever before and know I can't continue down this path without change in the relationship. It's really not good for any of us to live in this stressful situation. I just hope everything gets easier with time. I REALLY hope that my wife will get treatment and eventually become the woman I fell in love with. Sooner rather than later.

[pearlsw]

Hi witsendafter10,

Oh, I see, I see! That happens! When the good times come it can sort of... .it has its own kind of confusion with it I think, or that is my experience. You can get lulled into thinking things are "finally normal" and that it can/will go on that way... .and then boom, another dysregulation.

Well, glad you are back and I really encourage you to take your time and look around - there is a lot of information here! A lot of insights to be gained, a lot to read and absorb. Sounds like you want to make things better so there is going to be a lot of self-work involved too. I would encourage you to do your best to embrace that part of it if you can. Have you learned yet about how to validate/not validate the invalid? Or about not JADE-ing?  It takes time and practice, but it's worth it!

I know when I was just starting to figure this out I had a bit of an ego about it. I saw my husband as "messed up" and me as "okay". I decided I had to toss out all I thought I knew about relationships (from my previous relationships with non-BPD guys) and start over... .I am still doing this every day.

My holidays weren't so great either (to be modest about it) so you certainly have my sympathies!  

You describe your love for her as an addiction. Can I ask you to follow up on that a bit if you like? Do you feel like there is an unhealthy aspect to it for you?

Did she force you to leave? Or did you take space yourself?

wishing you well, pearlsw.

[witsendafter10]

I have not yet learned how to validate/ not validate the invalid or about JADE-ing. Could you point me in the right direction? I've spent a ton of time trying to get better at validating, but I've never fully understood how when I'm trying to validate irrational feelings. Maybe that sounds harsh, but sometimes... .

When I said my love is an addiction I meant that, even while knowing this damages me, I can't/ don't want to get out or give up. I think ending the relationship could very realistically be the best thing for me, but the love pulls me back. I've now quit nicotine and alcohol so I know very well the pull of addiction. I feel like she is my heroin and when I'm around her, even if she treats me poorly, I still get my "fix".

As for who forced who out, it's a little bit foggy. I'd say we both had parts in it where I told her I needed to get out and that she didn't deserve me and she told me to get out and she wanted a divorce. Then there are the moments when we both want to get back together. It's very confusing emotionally... .I KNOW that I've made it a point to stay away and have had opportunities to come back and not taken them. I give up all my power if I move back in before she has sought treatment. I REALLY want to move back in, though.

[ArleighBurke]

I've spent a ton of time trying to get better at validating, but I've never fully understood how when I'm trying to validate irrational feelings.

You are NOT validating her feelings. Her feeling are what they are. She doesn't CHOOSE her feelings, they just happen. So you are NOT judging whether her feelings are valid or not. In most cases, 99% of other people would NOT feel X in the current situation.

You are validating how the feelings affect her. Assume/pretend that whatever thing happened actually caused her feelings - then empathise/sympathise with her current feelings.

eg: (I don't agree that me coming home 10mins later than expected actually points to me cheating on you, but I can see/accept that you currently do feel that I am cheating on you.) "Thinking that your partner is cheating on you would be horrible. I can't imagine that feeling - not being able to trust or feel safe"... .

SET is talking about this sympathy/empathy, then adding in truth: "... .Do you think there might be another reason I'm late?"