She is moving to Florida and I wouldnt be able to see the kids

[VIDEO: "What is parental alienation?"]

It is abuse.

[GaGrl]

It is abuse.

[hurthusband]

i dont want to be ruthless i just do not know what she wants me to do from day to day and its like i need to read her mind but maybe i should know.

[ForeverDad]

HH, you've been here over a year now.  What improvements have you seen... .  In you?  In your spouse?  In your stepchildren?

From what I gather, after a year of education here, improved skills, bouncing problems and ideas off peer support... .and things just are NOT improved all that much, if at all.  Am I right?

You are being abused and neither society nor court would tell you to stay in an abusive environment.

You are being used and neither society nor court would tell you to stay in a demanding environment.

You are being blamed, obligated, guilted, manipulated, pressured and blindsided and neither society nor court would tell you to stay in a high conflict environment.

So, please, why do you stay?  Yes, when you first arrived, we all hoped your improved knowledge, skills and mindfulness would help both you and her in the relationship, but the situation is still, after a year, largely the same.  So, please, why do you stay, now that you know you've tried your best and still failed?

We leave the decisions up to our members, it's your life and your emotional health after all, but still... .what is still keeping you so stuck?  It is abundantly clear she refuses to improve, so... .How can we help you with your STUCKness?

( Hint:  I just saw your last post and NO you are most certainly NOT ruthless!  And there is NO WAY to know what she wants from day to day, it will always constantly change to keep you off balance and always one step behind. )

[Grey Kitty]

I finally told her I cannot keep doing things and not just being rejected but insulted and abused and that it drives me to a spot that I cannot be.  I cannot get to the point in an abusive part where I lose my mind and harm myself for the kids sake.  I dont care about myself, but I do them.  So i cannot keep trying to get her back if she is going to hurt me everytime.  She can reject it kindly, but I cannot handle the abuse.

 Yes, it is abuse. And it is tough to take.

Knowing you can't take it anymore is good.

Knowing you won't take it anymore is better.

Knowing you don't have to take it is best.

Telling her you won't take it is good, but it doesn't do very much to protect you. She can (and likely has!) responded to that kind of statement with something else abusive to you.  

Going away when she is saying abusive things does protect you. You can do it.

And you can come back to her if you choose. Just be ready to leave as soon as the abuse starts back up.

When you stand there and listen to her saying abusive things to you, you are not doing anybody any good. It hurts you. It doesn't solve any of her real problems. If the kids see it, they are seeing a terrible example of how to behave, and are likely to decide to emulate one of the two of you!

[momtara]

I think you hit the nail on the head.  :)o you really think it helps them to tiptoe around and give in to her abuse?  It makes you physically ill and unable to function.  It IS better, despite what you think, to set boundaries.

Also, if it's your home too, why leave?  Find a spot and maintain if if you like.  If you are scared she'll make up a charge, tape record.  Of course, you can stay out too, nothing wrong with that, but if you feel it's wrong, then don't.

"Then this morning she gets mad I have not sent her flowers"

Guys go their whole lives without doing that, and if there is a spat, both sides laugh it off and resolve it.  The things she says and does are not normal.  You can't do everything right because she'll come up with something new.  

I hope you get to the point where you realize that giving in to her hourly crazy whims and changes of mind doesn't help, in the end.  What helps is helping yourself.  You don't have to hurt them or be mean.  But you don't have to keep tiptoeing.  It's not making things better.  Also, I think you should find a way to separate some of your finances.

[waverider]

The only blame that falls on your head is that you have, and continue to, teach her how much abuse and manipulation you will put up with.

Not being ruthless, that is your downfall if anything. She is taking on that role 100%.

Saying what you wont put up with has no effect, if fact its even worse, if you then continue to do so.

The only thing that is harming the kids is that you are teaching them how to bleed, and your wife is teaching them how to bully. At some stage they will have to learn how to cope with a mother with BPD, you need to teach them how to do that.

[hurthusband]

she is very upset now... I am not sure.  Some seems that its due to me staying more away and not responding and refusing to go around and around. 

she said

"you think im a ___ed up mess, and you know that staying with me will end badly, but you still talk ___ about love and all this nonsense.  ___ or get off the ___ing pot.  get your ___ing life together. ."


i responded

"sarah, you are talking like we have no hope.  anything i been doing results in me getting yelled at.  i bring food and you are pissed on tuesday.  the small crappy gift you said was cute when i said i ordered it you refused to accept when arrived because you were mad at me.  if you are going to reject everything i do and push me away everytime i do and push me aaway everytime i see you, it feels to me like you want me erased from your life.  i am not going to push myself harder into your life and get yelled at for it.  i love you and i care, but i cannot keep trying and get abused to the point im trying to shoot myself.  i have to protect myself too.  not necessarily because i care about living but because I have shame over the last time i did that and i cannot do that to the boys, but if i am in s position where i am being wailed on to the point i am losing my mind and will be irrational and not sure what might happen, then that is a point i cannot go. i cannot keep pushing towards you only to get abused then made to feel like pushing forward is only making things worse.  saying i love you gets me in trouble sometimes even.

I can love you and get nothing in return, but i cannot love you and then get verbally beaten"


she says i missed the point entirely.  I then tried SET... she says i do not listen, and that its awkward being around me and is embarrassing. 

What am i doing wrong.  I mean I am doing something wrong, but what.  I am sure she is too, but I can only fix myself... hopefully.

[ForeverDad]

No, you're not doing anything wrong, everything you do to improve and cope is distorted and thrown back at you, she literally just can't let you ever succeed.  Ponder, why is this so impossible for you to accept?

[Grey Kitty]

One thing I'd suggest for you:

When you get a text like that, believe one thing, and only one thing.

She is angry, upset, and dysregulated, and completely unable to be reasonable when she said that.

Cut your losses. That isn't a time for validation. It won't help at that time. It isn't a time for SET. It won't help at that time. It isn't a time to profess in detail how much  you love her and how hard you are working on the r/s. It won't work at that time. Don't ask her to stop abusing you or ask her to stop abusing you. That won't work either.

The longest text I'd send at a time like that would be "I love you."

Not responding at all for at least 20 minutes or an hour is probably a better idea.

[hurthusband]

One thing I'd suggest for you:

When you get a text like that, believe one thing, and only one thing.

She is angry, upset, and dysregulated, and completely unable to be reasonable when she said that.

Cut your losses. That isn't a time for validation. It won't help at that time. It isn't a time for SET. It won't help at that time. It isn't a time to profess in detail how much  you love her and how hard you are working on the r/s. It won't work at that time. Don't ask her to stop abusing you or ask her to stop abusing you. That won't work either.

The longest text I'd send at a time like that would be "I love you."

Not responding at all for at least 20 minutes or an hour is probably a better idea.

we are talking about dysregulation around me lasting days though.  she says her therapist says she is vastly improved and i am unhealthy now too...

[Grey Kitty]

Don't worry about what she tells you her therapist says--there is nothing actionable for you in that.

What should matter to you is what your therapist says, if you have one.

And if she dysregulates for days, don't talk to her for days. Or check in once or twice a day, and if she's still out there, head off again.

Eventually she will stop.

[formflier]

 

HH,

I don't think you are in the wrong.

Not sure how many of my posts you ready... .but I am big on good, better, best.

I think you can do better than you are doing now... .that does't mean your "tactics" or actions now are "wrong".

I think you misinterpret the severity of a dysreg... .and maybe think you can SET your way out of it.

Most likely won't work... .hasn't worked... .and even it done perfectly... .might not work.

The only 100% guarantee is... .if you are not in her presence... .you won't get abused.

So... .my advice is say less... .use your feet more (to leave).

Keep coming back... .find a ruse to check in (bring glass of water is my personal favorite... .or cookie) and test the waters... .so to speak... .about her emotional state.

If it is calmer... .keep putting toe in water... .may slip in a bit deeper... .if it is not calmer.  Validate an emotion... .let her know you will be back... .and leave.

Keep repeating... .could go on for days... .weeks... .who knows.

I am more worried about you taking abuse... .than what she does right now.  I hope that makes sense.

Hang in there... .

[momtara]

I thought the letter you sent was perfect.  PERFECT.  drop it after that.  sometimes they react at first, then it sinks in and they realize you were right.  doesn't mean they'll ever admit it, but deep inside they know.  i know from experience.

you said you don't know what she wants.  she changes her mind every 5 seconds.  stop trying to figure out.  respond the way you want.  i think that was a good, positive email.  you can't ever regret it because it was positive.

although, don't hint at shooting yourself (even as a hypothetical) because she could try to use that against you if you ever want visitation with the kids.  i think the way you phrased it is fine, but just be careful in teh future.  don't give her ammo.  

you are doing your best.  you keep asking what you did wrong.  the answer is nothign.  but to her, it will just be everything because she is getting her attention by changing her mind every minute.   step off the hamster wheel.

[ForeverDad]

She says her therapist says she is vastly improved and I am unhealthy now too.

She says her T says... .Sorry, but based on past history you know you can't trust what she claims others have said.  Especially if the T hasn't seen you or had sessions with you, because in that case the T would know only what she has related and you know that secondhand information would be distorted by her emotional perceptions and not balanced observations.

However, I would agree... .you are in an unhealthy situation or relationship which is negatively impacting you.  It's not you, it is how you are impacted by the relationship.  It's like water on iron, acid on metal, who you are is being not-so-slowly eaten away.

Don't worry about what she tells you her therapist says--there is nothing actionable for you in that.

What should matter to you is what your therapist says, if you have one.

[waverider]

You are still living your reactions to her words and actions.

As foreverDad points out what she says someone else (even her T) said is worse than taking womens gossips magazines as legal precedents. It goes through so many BPD filters, both in the story the 3rd person hears to reporting of their reaction to half truths and fabrications.

Everything is said to create a reaction in you.