failure at moving on - part 2

[VIDEO: "What is parental alienation?"]

hi again... .  

I cannot believe after my last post on December 5th 2012 and I wrote a very nasty letter to my exBPDbf saying I knew all about his disorder and that it was irresponsible for him to date other people as he was unstable and that he was lazy and a peterpan and that he got me at a vulnerable time and I was too good for him and should have never dated him... .  basically wanted him to black me out forever.

A week passed and I started feeling really guilty about sending someone who was mentally ill such a nasty email, especially when I knew he respected my opinion and intelligence.  I felt like a person who just yelled at a blind person because they couldn't tell me what colour the sunset was.  My conscience ate away at me... .  

So... .  

I wrote him an email saying I was sorry for sending such a cutting email and that I didn't think he was a horrible person in general but i needed to hate him to detach from him and needed him to not contact me. I didn't apologize for what I said... .  more for sending it... .  

Anyways, he wrote back and said he understood why I wrote it and he wasn't mad at me and that he missed me and that he would always be there for me and would like to be friends.

Ive read enough on being a BPD friend and I now they don't work.

I said that I had met a male friend while cycling who was just like him.

Being a BPD expert -lol- I have resisted his charms and we actually are very very good platonic friends.  Sure we flirt but generally chat a lot and go to dinner.  We have gotten very close.  I know I can't date this new guy as "the clock would start ticking."  I have also have been dating other men - but still have not clicked with any of them.

I said, to my exBPDbf that maybe we could be friends, to appease him, and I realized that we cannot be romantic, and  Itold him about my male cycling friend.  He was surprised I replaced him with someone just like him.  I said, yes, but it is not romantic and it can't be.  So he could be the same.  He didn't get back to me until a few days later when I got a text saying that he really wanted to be my friend except he would have a problem as the next time he saw me he would want to be with me and I wouldn't stop him and could he come over... .  

I said yes.

dumb dumb dumb

So he did and ... .  he had his way.  And I had mine.  He said he wanted to break up with my repalcement for awhile now and did so.

We have been in contact since.

I am really trying to be distant.

I can't resist sex with him... .  I can't resist spending time with him... .  I don't want to.

I do want to keep him but I know I can't.

He is like that tiger in the "Life of Pi"

He will take what he wants and then just walk off one day.

I am continuing to date, spend time with friends and live my life.

I am cursed by this man... .  and I have no expectations.

I know I am just setting myself up for more crap... .  I can't fix or change him.  Just myself.

I am a moth that is chosing to go near the lightbulb... .  

He took me to a play last night and I haven't heard from him today.

I am just letting him come to me. 

And he helps me make better choices when dating as I already have my mr wrong and I am holding out for mr right.  And when I find him... .  well... .  I guess mr wrong can walk off then.

Lol!  Watch - he will choose that time to try and be my mr right... .  but I know he will never be.

Yup... .  I think we have become codependent or have something very complex... .  

I have my crash helmet on... .  he is already freaking out a bit as he has started saying we don't belong together... .  he starts getting anxious... .  so I shall see how long until he blacks me out again... .  

[aurora.dragon]

hi again... .  

I cannot believe after my last post on December 5th 2012 and I wrote a very nasty letter to my exBPDbf saying I knew all about his disorder and that it was irresponsible for him to date other people as he was unstable and that he was lazy and a peterpan and that he got me at a vulnerable time and I was too good for him and should have never dated him... .  basically wanted him to black me out forever.

A week passed and I started feeling really guilty about sending someone who was mentally ill such a nasty email, especially when I knew he respected my opinion and intelligence.  I felt like a person who just yelled at a blind person because they couldn't tell me what colour the sunset was.  My conscience ate away at me... .  

So... .  

I wrote him an email saying I was sorry for sending such a cutting email and that I didn't think he was a horrible person in general but i needed to hate him to detach from him and needed him to not contact me. I didn't apologize for what I said... .  more for sending it... .  

Anyways, he wrote back and said he understood why I wrote it and he wasn't mad at me and that he missed me and that he would always be there for me and would like to be friends.

Ive read enough on being a BPD friend and I now they don't work.

I said that I had met a male friend while cycling who was just like him.

Being a BPD expert -lol- I have resisted his charms and we actually are very very good platonic friends.  Sure we flirt but generally chat a lot and go to dinner.  We have gotten very close.  I know I can't date this new guy as "the clock would start ticking."  I have also have been dating other men - but still have not clicked with any of them.

I said, to my exBPDbf that maybe we could be friends, to appease him, and I realized that we cannot be romantic, and  Itold him about my male cycling friend.  He was surprised I replaced him with someone just like him.  I said, yes, but it is not romantic and it can't be.  So he could be the same.  He didn't get back to me until a few days later when I got a text saying that he really wanted to be my friend except he would have a problem as the next time he saw me he would want to be with me and I wouldn't stop him and could he come over... .  

I said yes.

dumb dumb dumb

So he did and ... .  he had his way.  And I had mine.  He said he wanted to break up with my repalcement for awhile now and did so.

We have been in contact since.

I am really trying to be distant.

I can't resist sex with him... .  I can't resist spending time with him... .  I don't want to.

I do want to keep him but I know I can't.

He is like that tiger in the "Life of Pi"

He will take what he wants and then just walk off one day.

I am continuing to date, spend time with friends and live my life.

I am cursed by this man... .  and I have no expectations.

I know I am just setting myself up for more crap... .  I can't fix or change him.  Just myself.

I am a moth that is chosing to go near the lightbulb... .  

He took me to a play last night and I haven't heard from him today.

I am just letting him come to me. 

And he helps me make better choices when dating as I already have my mr wrong and I am holding out for mr right.  And when I find him... .  well... .  I guess mr wrong can walk off then.

Lol!  Watch - he will choose that time to try and be my mr right... .  but I know he will never be.

Yup... .  I think we have become codependent or have something very complex... .  

I have my crash helmet on... .  he is already freaking out a bit as he has started saying we don't belong together... .  he starts getting anxious... .  so I shall see how long until he blacks me out again... .  

[bpdspell]

Hey Aurora,

So for clarity purposes do you feel like you are right back where you started? Are you hopeful that spending intimate, vulnerable quality time with your BPD will make his disorder go away? Or are you hopeful for a way out but not quite sure how to create No Contact boundaries?

Spell

[blurry]

 What if you could do it without getting yourself hurt (no expectations) when he moves on again? Thats what id be asking myself, especially knowing what it is now, i think it would get easier each time you let them back in/out, of your life because you know better than to believe all the promises.

Not even sure which forum i belong in, all i have to go by is that she said shes never talking to me again, last month i wanted her back definitely, today i think im more educated about BPD and would only entertain the idea of another recycle, tomorrow i maybe i'll be done with her completely.

But i do know, if she ever tries to break NC/recycle again, i wont be as naive as far as all the promises of undying love and commitment go. Plus im really wondering if i wanna go to work every day wondering if all my stuff will be packed when i get back, or when the breakup text is coming.

[seeking balance]

I don't understand why this is on the leaving board - seems like you are staying in some sort of relationship with him... .  so why not go to the staying board and learn the proper skills so you don't hurt him or yourself.

[aurora.dragon]

I would love to be optimistic and join the staying board... .  but I know it is impossible to have a longterm relationship with him... .  as sure as the sun will rise... .  he will leave.

I can't get him to stop distancing himself and I know when I least expect it, he will go and nothing I can do or say can stop him.

I make him too reactive, we are too intense, I love too deeply and he can't take it.

I've read the stories on the staying board... .  very few seem to be successful... .  and those that stay together are so much work and are hanging on a thread.

Unless a BPD is in therapy... .  it is futile.

I love my BPD... .  I know I do... .  but at the same time I know there is no point.

He haunts me, confuses me, hurts me and delights and thrills me.

I am leaving.

I have to.  I'm dating others and as soon as I find someone... I will choose healthy and committed love over chaos, distancing and dysfunction.

My BPD serves as a guide to everything I do want and everything I don't want.

He will black me out soon anyways.

I am too old for this... He makes me happy... .  but he will go.

It's a confusing tragedy.

[bpdspell]

I would love to be optimistic and join the staying board... .  but I know it is impossible to have a longterm relationship with him... .  as sure as the sun will rise... .  he will leave.

I can't get him to stop distancing himself and I know when I least expect it, he will go and nothing I can do or say can stop him.

I make him too reactive, we are too intense, I love too deeply and he can't take it.

I've read the stories on the staying board... .  very few seem to be successful... .  and those that stay together are so much work and are hanging on a thread.

Unless a BPD is in therapy... .  it is futile.

I love my BPD... .  I know I do... .  but at the same time I know there is no point.

He haunts me, confuses me, hurts me and delights and thrills me.

I am leaving.

I have to.  I'm dating others and as soon as I find someone... I will choose healthy and committed love over chaos, distancing and dysfunction.

My BPD serves as a guide to everything I do want and everything I don't want.

He will black me out soon anyways.

I am too old for this... He makes me happy... .  but he will go.

It's a confusing tragedy.

Aurora,

I can feel your sadness.  

Are you in Therapy?

Keep reading the articles. They will help to you understand & accept the seriousness of this mental illness. The articles will also help you to depersonalize his behavior. You are lovable and worthy of love but you might have to do some healing inner work of your own to create your own inner peace.

Keep posting. We are here to validate your feelings.

Spell

[aurora.dragon]

I am not in therapy.

I know I am capable of moving on and capable of being with someone else it is just it hasn't worked out yet.  Many men are intimidated by me I think as I can be stand-offish and I am well off financially, well educated and don't work.

My BPD doesn't like that I am better off than he - it intimidates him - makes him insecure... .  but admits that's his problem.

I just find my BPD so cute and charming.

And cuddly, sweet and sensual.

He tells me we don't belong together - he says I am like a rise and I am the best rose, but he wants a daisy... .  distancing and devaluing me... .  

He refers back to the honeymoon stage and says we aren't like that anymore... .  

Yet he likes to get with me... and keeps contacting me... .  

I love him and I accept his limitations but I also love me and will do what is best for me too.

So when it is time for me to go... .  I will.

Sometimes I wonder if he is a sociopath... .  as he seems to care so little... .  

[blurry]

 This has me thinking, and it could of happened many times, what if i got her pregnant and was locked into this for 20 more years, it was an LDR at first and now im back home, or, me being pro-life as it pertains to me personally, what if she were to abort unknowing to me, or from a mans POV, not really being sure if the baby was even mine.

You know the craziness these partners add into our lives, i was actually thinking at one point of secretly getting a vasectomy, in the event she got pregnant, id know it wasnt mine and she cheated or got pregnant during one of her shorter breakups. What kind of deranged thought process is that to have in a relationship? Every day that goes by has me feeling a little better and more empowered after this current breakup. These boards are helping a lot in just a few weeks of reading and now posting. Definitely realizing im co-dependant or have some issues myself, alcoholism being the biggest, and gonna consider therapy if i manage to get some health coverage i think.

[seeking balance]

I would love to be optimistic and join the staying board... .  but I know it is impossible to have a longterm relationship with him... .  as sure as the sun will rise... .  he will leave.

I can't get him to stop distancing himself and I know when I least expect it, he will go and nothing I can do or say can stop him.

I make him too reactive, we are too intense, I love too deeply and he can't take it.

I've read the stories on the staying board... .  very few seem to be successful... .  and those that stay together are so much work and are hanging on a thread.

Unless a BPD is in therapy... .  it is futile.

I love my BPD... .  I know I do... .  but at the same time I know there is no point.

He haunts me, confuses me, hurts me and delights and thrills me.

I am leaving.

I have to.  I'm dating others and as soon as I find someone... I will choose healthy and committed love over chaos, distancing and dysfunction.

My BPD serves as a guide to everything I do want and everything I don't want.

He will black me out soon anyways.

I am too old for this... He makes me happy... .  but he will go.

It's a confusing tragedy.

I am really confused - you say you don't belong on the staying board... .  but you are STAYING in communication with him regularly and you are letting his behavior effect you - these are skills that stayers work on.

If you really want to leave - well, why keep talking to him?

You have been on these boards for a long time now AD - what are you hoping for when I know you have read most of these lessons ... .  sometimes we have to look in the mirror and realize we can only change ourselves and our actions.

[aurora.dragon]

You raise a good point SB... .  

If I have to be honest with myself... .  I love being with him and love sex with him and I havent found someone else that I feel I will enjoy sex and intimacy with as much as my BPD.

It's like I get so much intimacy from him - it is overload and the sex is amazing - I am so responsive to him.  He queried why he liked being with me so much and his answer was because he liked to make me feel good and feel good I do.

He cannot ejaculate with me or anyone according to him.  Either performance anxiety or lack of emotional intimacy... .  so he never orgasms.  I think he does it for pure validation.  Not for me but because I make him feel good as he can get me going 5 times in a session.

He works so hard and is so considerate.

We go for dinner and we can chat and joke.

He does throw in nasty quips about how we don't belong together, yet here we are.

I am responsible for this as I know he will come back.

I tried the validating statements but when your blacked out it doesn't work.  I can't stop him from splitting me.  I ask him to talk to me first but he can't control it I don't think.

And he gets really anxious if I spend too much time with him... .  he gets anxious.

But I think we love each other and we cycle around and around... .  

I can go to the staying board but I think he, you and I all know this can't work. 

Sometimes I wish it would and sometimes I wish I never get tangled in this sad mess and I was with a healthy person.

What articles in specific do you think might help us SB?  Sorry for the lack of faith... .  it's just I've walked these floors for a long time... .  it is like ground hog day... .  

[MaybeSo]

I would love to be optimistic and join the staying board... .  but I know it is impossible to have a longterm relationship with him... .  as sure as the sun will rise... .  he will leave

I think because the Staying Board in named such, it seems like a mythical place where people stay, but for most it's where we try to STAY healthy while being in any kind of contact with a pwBPD... .  the word staying sounds so stable and permanent, and these r/s are anything but stable and most aren't permanent.

Staying is where people work and support eachother when staying in any kind of ongoing communication with a person who has BPD for any reason, no matter what it looks like, no matter how unstable he is or the r/s is.   It's a place to get support and skills for taking care of yourself while you stay in contact, of any kind,for any reason,  with this person.  That's all it really is.  It doesn't cure BPD, it helps US.

[seeking balance]

I would love to be optimistic and join the staying board... .  but I know it is impossible to have a longterm relationship with him... .  as sure as the sun will rise... .  he will leave

I think because the Staying Board in named such, it seems like a mythical place where people stay, but for most it's where we try to STAY healthy while being in any kind of contact with a pwBPD... .  the word staying sounds so stable and permanent, and these r/s are anything but stable and most aren't permanent.

Staying is where people work and support eachother when staying in any kind of ongoing communication with a person who has BPD for any reason, no matter what it looks like, no matter how unstable he is or the r/s is.   It's a place to get support and skills for taking care of yourself while you stay in contact, of any kind,for any reason,  with this person.  That's all it really is.  It doesn't cure BPD, it helps US.

What she said 

[patientandclear]

Aurora, is it possible for you to accept that he will come & go?  If you could, maybe he would feel more accepted as he is &, ironically, less pressure that might contribute to his impulse to leave.

Leaving may not really mean "leaving," if you understand the cycle he goes through and its significance or lack thereof for how he feels about you.

I just hate to hear so much pain when you two obviously want to engage each other and are engaging each other.

[aurora.dragon]

thank you so much... .  

More trouble though... .  

I was on the dating site my BPD and I met on a year and a half ago as I was proofing a profile for a friend of mine.

I had been on this site probably 2 weeks ago as I was checking on the friend and I also search for my BPD... .  just in case... .  he has never been there.

I did the search this morning and poof... .  my BPD picture comes up.

I was shaking.

I went through it did an inventory of his pictures... .  some were since we had met... .  I knew this was a new profile in the last 2 weeks.

I called him immediately and confronted him... .  it totally blew him away that I found it... .  and he was babbling and incoherent with illogical statements, confusion and lies and totally freaked out... .  he said we shouldn't be together... .  that he wasn't looking for anyone... .  just wanted to see what girls looked like in Florida and Texas... .  that he wasn't going to cheat on me... .  that he didn't want to be my boyfriend... .  that he dumped the girl he was seeing for me... .  he would immediately remove his profile... .  i was going to leave him anyways... .  he couldn't be with someone forever... .  he was not in love with me... .  he dumped the girl for me... .  he would remove the profile... .  he didn't want to meet anyone... .  

and on.

Anyways... .  I was really hurt and I was ready to tell him it was over... .  when he said he wasn't my boyfriend, i told him I did want him to be my boyfriend, he said he couldn't stay with me forever and he didn't love me, but he dumped my replacement for me and he would remove the profile, he just likes looking at people... .  i said I understood he was incapable of loving me but i knew he cared about me and why would he do this... .  he said it didn't mean anything... .  he would take it down... .  he said he respected and appreciated me... .  I said having your profile up made me upset and that he did not respect or appreciate me... .  

Anyways... .  he did take the profile down.  He wanted to work something out about our relationship but he said we should not be together.  That all we had was sex.

I said I wanted more than sex but he kept distancing me and that it was hard to spend time with him because he wouldn't let me.  That I had to snatch intimacy while we were together in bed because that is where we always end up. 

Anyways... .  what is the boards opinion of him posting on a dating site? he completely blew a gasket and dysregulated when he thought I was going to break up with him.  He does care for me and he copes by splitting me and detaching and forgetting me... .  he does not like surprises as he is not prepared.

I really liked patientandclear's approach.

I don't know how long we could hold it together... .  and this is not my ideal relationship.

And I am a huge hypocrite as I am dating an average of 2 guys a week - just coffee/dinner dates and I see them 1-3 times and decide I don't like them and keep going on to the next... .  but as I see it... .  my BPD is the one controlling our relationship because if it were up to me and he wasn't disordered... .  we'd be always together as I love him, who he is and we have amazing chemistry... .  but I know through everyone's post... .  he will leave me and there is nothing I can do.

Thoughts?

[aurora.dragon]

and... .  

just to be clear... .  

I do not want to be with anyone other than my BPD.

If I could be with him, I would never look at another man again.  I just date as I feel the end of my BPD relationship is just around the corner.

We want to be together... .  we just can't.

So, please don't get to hung up on the fact I am dating others and I flip out that he goes on a dating site.  He is the one putting on the brakes and distancing... .  Im just trying to cope and attempt to move on... .  while still loving him... .  I know it is silly.  I am attempting to protect myself by distraction... .  

I was thinking... .  maybe I will just pull out all the stops and tell him I love him all the time instead of holding back so he feels more secure?  I don't know what to do... .  I know he will leave... .  but I will try patientandclears approach too.

Thoughts?

[patientandclear]

Hi Aurora ... .  

I've been at this long enough to be sure that just "pulling out the stops" and declaring your love in the hopes that that will make him feel secure isn't going to have the result you want.  If he has untreated BPD he is not going to feel secure for very long, period.  Too much enveloping love can also be scary to him.  I've pretty much decided that no matter where my road with my uBPDexbf takes me, I'm never telling him again that I love him.  I'll show him -- I do show him, all the time.  But when I tell him, it clearly scares him and doesn't help.

I think the closest you can come to providing security for someone you're involved with wBPD is to be a calm, steady presence that is consistent even when they are wildly inconsistent.  You know how he said you're a rose but he needs a daisy?  I think what that means, sort of, is that less intensity and more steadiness makes it somewhat easier for him to deal with the relationship.

He is going to come and go.  That feeling you have?  You're right.  But after he goes, he comes back.  You seem to be very important to him and a central figure.  I guess the question is, can you accept that he will go, use that time for yourself, and welcome him back when he comes.  If not, this is a recipe for pain for you both, because he isn't going to be able to just stop his pattern without help and time.  But if you can ... .  I think there can be a lot of value in such a relationship, even if it's unusual and most people wouldn't do it.

I've now read so many stories on here, including my own, where the strength of the BPD relationship is the fact that the non-BPD partner doesn't make a big deal out of the wild swings the BPD partner experiences.  Sometimes the behavior then lessens because there's no need to keep making the point "I can leave" if the partner is saying "you're right, you can!  I'll miss you!"

I'm intimate friends with my uBPDexbf.  He comes and goes.  We get really close, he has some sort of panic reaction, withdraws, re-stabilizes, deals with his feelings using his own tools (yay him!) and then he comes back.  At first when he did this, he felt the need to sort of call it a breakup ("I need distance" (even though we weren't dating!).  But when I was warm about it and made clear he was welcome to come back when and if he was ready, he was so appreciative.  And since then, he just goes, with no big dramatic hurtful announcement; and I do other things; and he comes back.  Sometimes he comments about this (I've posted about some of the comments) suggesting he can't quite believe I'm being so cool about it.  I don't make a big deal about that either -- just say you're welcome to come and go, and when you're here, you can stay as long as you like.

I learned this the hard way, and from other people's stories and advice on this board.  It has made my r/s with this man immeasurably better.  It is still hard, and confusing, and sometimes painful when contrasted with how he said it would be when we first fell in love.  But it is the best the two of us can do, and possibly the best he can do with anyone, and I find it extremely worthwhile in the end, so I want to do it gently and in a way that builds trust and safety.  There's no grand gesture that can do that for all time.  It's a continuing process.

Several people on this board have likened pwBPD to cats.  In my case, it's definitely a feral cat.  You can make a place for them, but that's all.  You cannot make them come and you cannot make them stay.  However, they may come, and they may stay.  The more they realize you are not going to grab them, the more likely they are to want to.

I know you love this guy.  It's been clear in all your posts for a long time.  Only you can know if you're up for an arrangement like I'm describing, but if you want to try, definitely read the lessons about engaging someone wBPD if you haven't, and the advice from folks on this board is stellar about how to handle particular situations.  If you're going to keep engaging him, I think you should try to give you guys a shot at a calmer, happier dynamic.

About the dating site: it's symptomatic of his panic at closeness with you.  He may take it down but it doesn't mean he isn't panicking, you know?  You haven't fixed the feeling (and you cannot).  In general, confronting pwBPD, seeking straightforward accountability for actions that are in tension with a romantic r/s -- that approach doesn't usually produce the results you want (see the lessons).

People here write a lot about boundaries.  You decide what you cannot deal with; you decide what you will do if it happens.  You don't struggle with your pwBPD over these things -- you calmly explain your position, e.g., "I can't be sexually involved with someone who has an active profile on a dating site." (Not saying this is  your position, it's just an example.)  If he acts inconsistently with this boundary, you say "hey, you can totally do that; you just can't do it with me seeing  you romantically.  Want to be friends? -- or -- if it stays up or happens again, I'll need to exit this r/s."

But there's no point in berating or confronting or demanding to know why (he probably doesn't even really know why).

Good luck with whatever route you pursue.  I feel for you -- I know you feel strongly pulled to this man, and it sounds like he does to you.

[aurora.dragon]

Where do I find these lessons on this site?

I am so confused ... .  I love him but ... .  Wow.

I can try the calm approach with firm boundaries.

It's funny, I was already thinking of taking that approach.

I have a little statue - it is a collectors Austin figurine and I've always had it.

It is a pair of doves in their nest. The female is nestled in deep and the male is cuddled in close on the edge of the nest with his head on her back.

I was going to give it to him and say, "this is for you to remember me by. The female is me and the male is you and the nest is us/our relationship.  I just want you to use this to remember me by  that if you need to leave, that ill be here in our nest waiting for you to fly back to me."

With the boundaries that if he replaces me or strays - I can't live with that again and it will have to be over.

But last time I was with him he got a little dysregulated and was sputtering about how I was a rose and he needed a daisy.  Frankly, I just think he was trying to devalue me and distance me.  I felt so rejected,and I did tell him be hurt my feelings and he can't say stuff like that to me and he apologized and said he wouldn't say that anymore.  I was very pleased with both of our responses.

But that visit was a very intimate one where we demonstrated a lot of trust and caring in addition to the above situation... .  so I can see why he panicked.

So if you can specifically guide me to the lessons of engaging... .  I will give it my best shot.

Thanks for your support.

[patientandclear]

The Lessons are both on a sticky thread at the top of the board, and then individually linked over to the right >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >>

Aurora, also wanted to say this.  I couldn't do what I am suggesting you do.  I can't deal with someone I'm having sex with and saying "I love you" to, leaving abruptly.  It happened once with my uBPDex and it almost destroyed me.  Even though I understand better now, I just cannot be that intimate with someone who comes and goes.

My solution was to have a long period of NC with my ex (10 months) and then to re-engage him as friends.  I still love him, he knows that, and on some level, I think that is fully reciprocated.  But we do not speak of that.  We are both good at observing this boundary -- no physical contact except hugs goodbye, no drifting across the line into wistful insinuations, no flirting.  I think because this is really important to us both and we don't want to mess with each other's hearts irresponsibly, and we know it isn't in the cards, at least not now, to cross that line responsibly.

We have pretty profound emotional intimacy though.  And we are each other's "person" if that makes sense -- we get each other's last text of the night, we push each other, we share secret and tender things.

I don't for a minute think this is what you're after with your BPD partner.  I know sex is really important in your relationship (and frankly it was in ours too, but that was 18 months ago now, and it turns out there is still a lot left for us without that.  My ex is a sex abuse survivor and I think sex is in the innermost circle of terror for him -- so I think it's about the last frontier we'd be able to conquer even if we were to try again to be romantic partners).  Anyway, I don't see you & your partner being inclined to be super close friends without sex.  Maybe I'm wrong?

My point in sharing all that is that that intimate friendship is the most I find I am able to do with my uBPDex.  I don't lightly suggest that you try to also be sexually involved with yours while applying the Lessons ... .  it's a harder thing than I am able to do.  I just wanted to acknowledge that.

If you are GOING to be involved regardless though ... .  read the Lessons!

 

[aurora.dragon]

Patientandclear, so you are not sexual with this man?  He is just a friend?

Do you have another relationship other than your BPD friend?

A romantic one?

Do either of you have sexual outlets?

Sorry for the personal questions but I'm just trying to see the full nature of your relationship.

What I am working towards with him is a dating relationship ... .  We go out and have fun together and have sex but he will have plenty of space.

That meets his needs but I know it will not meet mine... .  as I want a companion and a life partner I live with... .  

I really don't know how we will resolve this.

I am learning that if he says he doesn't want to be my boyfriend and I say but I want you to be my boyfiend, things turn out better than if inagree with his relationship sabotaging ideals.

I fear rejection to so it is a huge struggle for me to push through that.

And if I find someone I want to have a relationship with... .  what will I do with my BPD guy then?

I will hate to let him go... .  the bad part of me would like to keep him on the side... .  maybe that would work as he wouldn't feel as pressured... .  but what of my new bf?

I think though - he will fight and sabotage the relationship to coincide with his erroneous thinking.

He is a quiet borderline so he just splits and goes without a word. We live 40 minutes apart so I see him once every 2 weeks and text and talk otherwise.

It is not enough for me... .  But I feel such a pull ... .  

Anyways... .  I am reading the lessons and am getting basically I need to be calm and assertive... .  

Basically like dealing with a two year old... .  I was a great parent to my kids ... .  but on an adult... .  

I will give it a try.

And keep you posted.

I thought he may have split me over the dating site issue as he dissociated so badly... .  but I texted him about dinner tomorrow and he politely responded so I am still in the game... .  

I will talk to him about it later... .  not about why he did but what wound happen if he did it again.

My personal boundary is any women and I am gone.  Even if it hurts me more than it hurts him - I do have self-respect. He did replace me but he was intending never to see me again when he blacked me out last time.  I will talk to him about being Ble to leave and to come back provided no women.  I think he gets so split and convinced that he will never see me again that it goes out the window, but I can try offering it to him and it may make all the difference.  Or none at all.

[briefcase]

Hi auroro.dragon, and welcome to the Staying Board.   

Since you are in contact with this man but trying to strategically think through exactly what kind of relationship you really have, you might find it's helpful to really think about what your boundaries are.  You can think about him and his tendency to split, etc. all day long, and not really make any progress.  This is about you, not him.

To be in these relationships you must have strong boundaries and a sense of yourself.  I mean, you need to know your own values and the ideas that define who you are at a fundemental level.  What is indispensible to your life, and what is open to compromise.  Before we compromise things in these relationships, we need to know what it is we are about to compromise, and whether it is something we can truly do without and remain true to ourselves.  Maybe I'm wrong, but I sense you are struggling with some of these core issues when it comes to this particular relationship.  The heart, gut and head aren't in agreement for some reason, do you know why?

Let's say he never changes, is what you have now what you want from now on?  What are the pieces that are missing?  Can you do without those pieces? How would you describe the kind of relationship you are looking for? 

You don't have to answer these questions, but give them some thought.  I think you know the answers, but it's easy to lose sight of some of these things as we get caught up in a relationship with someone who has BPD, especially when the sex is great.     You need to rediscover and then anchor yourself to your core "deal breaker" boundaries, and maybe your way forward gets more clear. 

I'm pulling for you.   

 

[aurora.dragon]

Hi

I have thought about what I want and no this isn't it... .  I adore him and want to be with him... .  but I have read enough to know this wont change... .  we are scheduled to have a chat about our relationship and what we both need.

I doubt the outcome will be anything close to what I want which us a responsible, positive, active, healthy life partner who I can love and who loves me back and eventually live with.

He told me in the beginning that I should look at him as an accessory - not the main outfit.  It didn't make sense before but it sure does now.

I don't want an accessory.

I am actively dating and living my life fully. If I can see him, I make him a priority and if he needs me, I'm there.  I will try and validate him, practice self-control and calmness when dealing with him.  I do tell him I love him because I think that validates him.

I wonder too if I can sense the potential of who he was suppose to be if he wasn't disordered.  He works for his dad and does volunteer theatre... .  that's it.  He immerses himself in theatre and it and takes priority over me no matter how trivial the event is... .  

I love the sex and I love him... .  but it is not enuf for me - not even close.  I see him once every two weeks and I like to have contact daily... .  he doesn't deem that necessary... .  we only live 30-40 minutes apart... .  

I am confused... .  as "the replacement" and the Internet dating site posting crossed my boundaries... .  yet because of his disorder... .  I let it pass... .  but if he does it again I'm done.  Actually, he has crossed most if my boundaries good and bad... .  colours outside of my lines... .  sexually and social boundaries.

Some I can live with - some I can't.  I tell him when he has upsets me -

I will tell him we can "yo-yo" as long as no women or harm to my person or property.

I believe as I have been so giving in the relationship... .  if I stopped giving before he blacked me out I think it would be hard on him.

I think when he blacks me out it is like going under anesthetic for him... .  I'm white and then  poof I transcend black.  The interesting thing I notice is the black wears off...   And then he will engage again.

It is so sad for him.  Thank god he is outgoing and friendly and can attract people in his life.  He needs his theatre... .  short term shows, he can engage and then is free to disengage until he wants to come back.  His work is solitary... .  with the exception of his dad.  His dad is his main pillar.  Renders me secondary and less important.

We don't have a hope do we?  I'm just being realistic... .  

[aurora.dragon]

Also my BPD is not vulnerable to me... .  Was in the honeymoon stage... .  now he is more narcissistic to the point if exhibiting sociopathic, tendencies.

He is not needy - more superman now... .  

[aurora.dragon]

I asked my BPDbf if he would like to go away with me.  He said he couldn't as he was broke.  Although his dads company pays for his house and car, he only gets a nominal salary for being the superintendent of his dads building.

A friend asked me 2 days later to come down south with her and I said yes!

I told him Friday I was going the end if January.  I asked him to come over Sunday as he had a commitment on Saturday.

I haven't heard from him since Friday. I texted him this morning... .  no response... .  I called him a few hours after asking him if everything is ok as he had been quiet and that made me nervous.  So far no response.

I am worried he has split me again as I'm going to Mexico ... .  I'm leaving him... .  

What do you think?

What should I do?

I'm thinking it is too late... .  

[rosannadanna]

Hi AD  ,

I don't post very much, just if I can really relate and feel that I can really contribute something to another member.  I have been in CC with my ex since 9/12 after 6 months of strict NC starting 3/12.  At time of breakup we had dated a little over 2 years.  I initiated re-engagement b/c of my caretaking needs compelling me to do so and mostly just text with some face-to-face, no phone b/c that can be triggering for both of us.

I agree with P & C all the way and I want to add that I have had sex with the ex 3x since re-engagement.  Last time xmas day.  I withdrew b/c I was feeling sad about him not being my "fantasy partner" (I think the holidays made me more suseptible to longing) and I needed to get centered again.  My withdrawal triggered his withdrawal and dysregulation.  He has painted me a little black and is currently fixated on wanting to rehash how horrible I treated him in our previous relationship.  I refuse to engage in same pattern and keep vollying his feelings back to him to handle on his own, all the while validating his bad feelings (tricky when the bad feelings are about you).  Ultimately I think he is working his way out of his latest dysregulation and he will be fun to hang with again (for a while).  So that is where I am.  I have no expectations, except that he will display BPD behaviors b/c he is mentally ill.  I accept who he is.  I keep hanging out with him b/c I do get lonley sometimes and it's more comfortable to hang out with someone you know than to go to the effort of meeting someone new.  I have been internet dating off and on since 2004 and let's face it, at 43 everyone in my age group has serious baggage.  I have a strong compulsion to be "the person" for my ex who is not going to let him down b/c of how much suffering he has had in his life.  That doesn't mean that I put his needs in front of mine.  It means that I have a relationship with someone with a severe mental illness and I want to be a compassionate, constructive part of his life.  I accept he will never be able to equally reciprocate.  I no longer get mad at him for not being able to provide for my needs.

[rosannadanna]

I also wanted to get a little more specific concerning what you are going through with your dude.  As I was reading your thread, I noticed that you are very focused on him (which I think is typical when one is not emotionally detached from the "fantasy relationship".  But you also talk alot about dating in general and there is a frantic feel to your posts, like it is imperative that you find a partner quickly.  I personally think that we need a period of strict NC to emotionally detach and have the FOG clear so that we can eventually shift the focus from our BPD our own personal growth.  After that, then I think one should still be single for a time (maybe just a practice date here or there) so that one can truly experience being with just themselves. 

Have you ever heard of adult attachment styles?  Here is a link that explains it:

www.mindfulnessmuse.com/individual-differences/how-does-your-attachment-style-impact-your-adult-relationships

It seems like you might fall somewhat into the "preoccupied/anxious style" and I know I fall more into the "avoidant" style.  I know when my ex first dumped me, it was excruciating b/c I was experiencing abadonment depression (read about it in 2010's posts) but then I realized that I was going to be ok.  I am little bit of a loner (the lonely child, which you can also read about here) and I really do enjoy my "me time", so not dating is sort of in my comfort zone. 

No matter what our attachment style is or whatever our challenges are based on our own experiences, I think having been in a BPD relationhip can be such a gift of personal growth in that we can really truly get to know ourselves and love ourselves.  When that happens we can fully and radically accept the BPD (and other difficult peope/situations), but also comfortably set boundaries

based on the love we have for ourselves.

You are strong and can take care your own needs.  When you need support, remember that your ex is mentally ill (maybe narcissistic more than BPD?) and probably should not be your first "go to" person.  Take care of yourself.

[rosannadanna]

oh and the short answer to your last post:  You are pursuing frantically.  He will keep running as long as your are pursuing.  Stopping your pursuing doesn't count unless you stop pursuing in your head as well as in your behavior.  If you just do the staying tools to manipulate his behavior, it may work, but you will still be miserable.

[aurora.dragon]

Uggggh - yes I do pursue him more than he pursues me... .  when I give up - that's when he comes running.  It's just when he is in a good mood he he so great that you interact like a normal relationship.  And then something triggers him and he hates me ... .  

Anyways, yes, I'm looking for a new partner and I've met a lot of nice guys but I am looking for something specific in terms of family lifestyle, personality, values... .  if I was needy... .  I could have settled a long time ago.  I live alone after being with my exH for 26 years.  I've lived alone for over two years and I enjoy my own company and happy reading, puttering around the house or out socializing - and I am very social - it is who I am.

I go on 2 dates a week with different guys... .  see them once or twice... .  but if there are too many  red-flagred flags - it's bye bye.  Too much baggage on their part is another reason the dates have not been successful - my kids are high achievers in university, I am very financially stable, I have a lot of freedom ... .  the dates discover they are not as flexible with time or money and feel I will be unhappy with them ... .  Which is fine... .  I want someone who can keep up.

I guess my BPD is my mr wrong, I don't want another! ... .  He has so many red flags: Peter Pan syndrome, irresponsible,'lazy, non-committed to projects, mentally unstable yet is charming adorable loving and very giving at other times.

I know my BPD will leave me as sure as the sun rises every morning... .  

But after my last post here I sent my BPD one last text which said, "hi  what's wrong? I get you are upset I'm going away, but I am coming back to you.  If you need to leave me for awhile, I understand and I will be right here waiting for you.  We both mean a lot to each other and you mean the world to me."

He texted right back, "must you always be such a drama queen? when are you leaving?"

And he was all chatty again... .  

So p&C, letting him know he could go and come back - engaged him.

He called me tonight and was in a black mood... .  he speaks like he hates everything including me.

It really hurt me as he is so cold - like a psychopath in a movie... .  chilling... .  I try not to be effected but he was saying he gets bored of everything and will just split... .  hmmm does he get bored of me? (I took it personally, my bad... .  )

Sometimes I think he is so narcissistic and sociopathic as well - one big cluster B salad!

Ill give him space again and next time I talk to to him i'll say, I always love talking to you but if your in that all-hating black mood - just let me know and we can talk another time unless you need to talk through something.

Well ... .  We will see how this drama plays out... .  damn I wish I knew what he was before I fell in love with him... .  I would have thought twice... .  

[aurora.dragon]

Oh and I looked up adult attachment styles. My parents both had narcissitc traits, but loved me to death and were ALWAYS there for me. I would say I'm 80% secure attach and 20% anxious attachment.  I am not needy, I am very strong and I have cut many toxic people out of my life without regret.  I keep my garden free of weeds.  I choose who stays and who goes.

My BPD is not a weed - he is a beautiful flower except his roots won't stay in the soil... .  he want to leave my garden... .  I love him and don't want to go.  Maybe he is not a flower, I don't know what he is, and he probably does not belong in my garden, but  he is not a weed.

If he were - I would have chucked him out a long time ago.

[aurora.dragon]

well... .  things were going somewhat smoothly.

When I talk to him on the phone he disregulates really quickly and talks like he hates me.

I am leaving for florida tomorrow and as I just got back in town after caring for a sick relative I only have 2 days home.  My BPD texted me everyday i was gone asking about my relative - I was surprised.

I got home and BOOM - I checked the dating site - and he is back on!

I confronted him on it and he says he just like to voyeur women... .  weird... .  I said he could do that with his profile not visible but he didn't take it down.  He got mad and said he didn't like to be told what to do and I was always forcing him to do things.

Somehow, I soothed him over and we had a nice text conversation and he was going to visit me before I left.

yesterday, he still did not take it down... .  

He said he couldn't visit me yesterday due to work... .  yet he has all the time in the world for his plays and other groups he belongs to.

So, he said he would visit today.  It was 10:00pm - and he was still working, so he said he would talk to me when he was done.  I checked the online site a few minutes later and it said he was online... .  

I texted him immediately and said... .  "your profile is still up and it shows you are online.   I cannot have you come over while you are on a dating site as it makes me feel disrespected.  I am sorry you are making this choice for us as you know you being on a dating site is a deal breaker.  You are treating me badly and I can't continue."

He replied, "I am very angry with you right now, please do not reply."

I wrote back. "You need to decide what is important to you and apologize to me and do the right thing.  Goodnight."

I am feelling better about things.

I am going to go on my trip and enjoy it.

I will not pursue him.

He has crossed my boundary and if I allow it - things will just get worse.  As long as he is on the site... .  I shall not initiate contact.

I am probably painted black and I won't hear from him again.

And, I know he is not the good person I thought he was.  I think he is a weed in my garden.

[briefcase]

I'm sorry to hear the ups and downs of this relationship are continuing.  Have you had a chance to read the Staying Lessons yet?