Need to keep my mouth shut

[How to communicate after a contentious divorce...]

I made a post and I think I should of kept my positive thoughts to myself.  Apparently I'm not allowed to ask my BPH help in picking up our oldest from school.  I asked if he could pick him up early because I work late today.  He goes on a rampage about I need to figure it out, I don't need to ask my again to do stuff because he's the one working two jobs. He's going to pull our kid out of school and make him home schooled and doesn't care if social services shows up because I don't know who's picking him up.  

I did snap when I was on the phone.  He was being a jerk.  It feel that as soon as he's pulling a little extra weight, all of a sudden he feels he's doing everything.  If I had known he was going to react this way, I wouldn't of even bothered.  I informed him that I was going to do it if he said he wouldn't be able to and my GM said it's okay I leave work to pick him up.  My work schedule, I've told them the days I want off, I wish I had a set schedule that didn't change every week, but I have no control over it.

I kind of half-a**ed my validation.  I told him I wasn't trying to upset him and was only asking for help today, sorry I bothered him, and I was going to pick him up.  He said to f*** off with all that guilt.   Now he's screaming that he's bought enough bikes for us and that he's tired about hearing about things going wrong with the bikes from us "ingrates", and I shouldn't have ridden a bike that was messed up (lost the key to my bike lock for other bike).  Then he's hollering about his sunglasses.  Says that I'm the only other one that drives the car I must have moved them.  Screams at me asking where are his sunglasses.  Not once have I ever moved or taken them out of the car.  Apparently since he can't find them, I took them.  I calmly said that the last place I have seen them was in the car.  Now we're all worthless because he can't find them.

Even last night, I fell asleep in the kids room on the recliner.  He comes home, storms in a bellows for me to get up.  Scared the crap out of me, I scramble to exit the room before he wakes up the kids.  He's hollering because there's toys all of the house and a mess in the kitchen.  I'm half asleep so I don't even bother arguing.  I was planning on cleaning up before he said anything, I just fell asleep. He was carrying on about how the house is "always" messy, how we're a bunch of slobs, why do they kids have their toys everywhere, how he shouldn't have to come home to a mess especially since I "never" feed him.  I let him burn out his steam and just kept cleaning.  I get pretty much everything cleaned up except for a couple things and I hear him in the other room... .that's enough baby, you don't have to do anymore.  I politely informed him I was almost done, when part of me wanted to throw a pot at his head.

I'm having a bad day.  I texted him because I had thrown in the towel on my day and figured he might be able to do it.  I didn't realize he went to work early.

He at one point said on the phone that there is a problem.  I said okay, what is the problem so we can work on getting it fixed?  His reply... .I don't know what the problem is, I just know there is a problem.  *Face palm*  So I gently reply, if you don't know what the problem is, then how should we fix it?  He screams back that there is a problem because he says there is a problem.  *Another face palm*.  I know at this point his seeing red.  All he knows is he's pissed off and everything is sh**.  

I get angry at him when he says those mean things, blames me for screwing everything up, using the words "always" and "never", blows up when I ask him one thing, snaps at me when it's totally unwarranted, and all those oh so fun reactions... (last part with sarcasm).  I get angry because I want to get sarcastic, take jabs, snap, tell him being an a**hole, get loud and holler at him.  I get this way so bad I can feel myself shaking with this explosion.  I get angry because it feels like he's allowed to get that way, but I have to apply all these tools, detach, see past the words, see why he's so upset about the situation, validate, and not JADE.  When all I really want to do is tell him to f*** off.

Any tips to not let this situation carry on until tonight would be helpful.  I don't want to continue the fighting when he gets home.

[Frankee]

I made a post and I think I should of kept my positive thoughts to myself.  Apparently I'm not allowed to ask my BPH help in picking up our oldest from school.  I asked if he could pick him up early because I work late today.  He goes on a rampage about I need to figure it out, I don't need to ask my again to do stuff because he's the one working two jobs. He's going to pull our kid out of school and make him home schooled and doesn't care if social services shows up because I don't know who's picking him up.  

I did snap when I was on the phone.  He was being a jerk.  It feel that as soon as he's pulling a little extra weight, all of a sudden he feels he's doing everything.  If I had known he was going to react this way, I wouldn't of even bothered.  I informed him that I was going to do it if he said he wouldn't be able to and my GM said it's okay I leave work to pick him up.  My work schedule, I've told them the days I want off, I wish I had a set schedule that didn't change every week, but I have no control over it.

I kind of half-a**ed my validation.  I told him I wasn't trying to upset him and was only asking for help today, sorry I bothered him, and I was going to pick him up.  He said to f*** off with all that guilt.   Now he's screaming that he's bought enough bikes for us and that he's tired about hearing about things going wrong with the bikes from us "ingrates", and I shouldn't have ridden a bike that was messed up (lost the key to my bike lock for other bike).  Then he's hollering about his sunglasses.  Says that I'm the only other one that drives the car I must have moved them.  Screams at me asking where are his sunglasses.  Not once have I ever moved or taken them out of the car.  Apparently since he can't find them, I took them.  I calmly said that the last place I have seen them was in the car.  Now we're all worthless because he can't find them.

Even last night, I fell asleep in the kids room on the recliner.  He comes home, storms in a bellows for me to get up.  Scared the crap out of me, I scramble to exit the room before he wakes up the kids.  He's hollering because there's toys all of the house and a mess in the kitchen.  I'm half asleep so I don't even bother arguing.  I was planning on cleaning up before he said anything, I just fell asleep. He was carrying on about how the house is "always" messy, how we're a bunch of slobs, why do they kids have their toys everywhere, how he shouldn't have to come home to a mess especially since I "never" feed him.  I let him burn out his steam and just kept cleaning.  I get pretty much everything cleaned up except for a couple things and I hear him in the other room... .that's enough baby, you don't have to do anymore.  I politely informed him I was almost done, when part of me wanted to throw a pot at his head.

I'm having a bad day.  I texted him because I had thrown in the towel on my day and figured he might be able to do it.  I didn't realize he went to work early.

He at one point said on the phone that there is a problem.  I said okay, what is the problem so we can work on getting it fixed?  His reply... .I don't know what the problem is, I just know there is a problem.  *Face palm*  So I gently reply, if you don't know what the problem is, then how should we fix it?  He screams back that there is a problem because he says there is a problem.  *Another face palm*.  I know at this point his seeing red.  All he knows is he's pissed off and everything is sh**.  

I get angry at him when he says those mean things, blames me for screwing everything up, using the words "always" and "never", blows up when I ask him one thing, snaps at me when it's totally unwarranted, and all those oh so fun reactions... (last part with sarcasm).  I get angry because I want to get sarcastic, take jabs, snap, tell him being an a**hole, get loud and holler at him.  I get this way so bad I can feel myself shaking with this explosion.  I get angry because it feels like he's allowed to get that way, but I have to apply all these tools, detach, see past the words, see why he's so upset about the situation, validate, and not JADE.  When all I really want to do is tell him to f*** off.

Any tips to not let this situation carry on until tonight would be helpful.  I don't want to continue the fighting when he gets home.

[Notwendy]

How did this go?

My H would react like this if I asked him to help. He also worked and felt he was doing "my job" if I asked him to help. I basically stopped asking. It wasn't worth it. Something like this could result in him not speaking to me the rest of the day.

I did figure out later that it was easier to ask for something like this if I asked well in advance, not at the spur of the moment. I think he has a plan in his mind about what he is going to do and a last minute request derails that.

This is not about me, or the kids, but the way he is. He likes to have things planned out and does not like spur of the moment changes.

Your request may have derailed your H's plans in his mind. The rest of the stuff he said was just anger word garbage. "home schooling blah blah blah". Like a steam kettle going off--it's noise. Don't add meaning to it.

Kids are stressful when someone wants a controlled environment. You can have plans, and a child can suddenly get a virus, and you have to change them. You can clean the house and 10 minutes later there are toys everywhere. I think it takes a certain temperament to go along with this. If someone doesn't have it, it can be stressful to them. This is one reason I didn't ask. The kids needed someone with a  go with the flow temperament and I am more like that. Your H may not have the temperament for the kind of situations that can come up with kids.

So how do you get help? If I needed to do something I could find a college student to pick up the kids, or ask a friend ( and also be there to pick up her kids if she needed me to).  There are also after-school programs- sometimes at the school and sometimes a local Y or church or other organization has a van to pick the kids up.
It may cost some money, but I felt it was a reasonable price to pay for some peace of mind and less conflict. 

[Frankee]

He ended up apologizing later on.  Told me he woke up very angry and knew he shouldn't have yelled at me. 

My H would react like this if I asked him to help. He also worked and felt he was doing "my job" if I asked him to help. I basically stopped asking. It wasn't worth it. Something like this could result in him not speaking to me the rest of the day.

My H is the same way.  He thinks since I'm the woman, I'm in charge of the kids, cooking, house, paying bills, etc.  It feels very Neanderthal way of thinking at times, but I'm okay with this role because I'm good at it.  Even though I feel overwhelmed periodically and wish he would help more.

I did figure out later that it was easier to ask for something like this if I asked well in advance, not at the spur of the moment. I think he has a plan in his mind about what he is going to do and a last minute request derails that.

This is not about me, or the kids, but the way he is. He likes to have things planned out and does not like spur of the moment changes.

Your request may have derailed your H's plans in his mind. The rest of the stuff he said was just anger word garbage. "home schooling blah blah blah". Like a steam kettle going off--it's noise. Don't add meaning to it.

It is true though, I did ask last minute and I did "de-rail" whatever plans he had.  I kind of knew there was a possibility it could go south, but my mood at the time I texted was out of frustration.  I was having a rough morning and part of me didn't really stop to care about his possible reaction.  I thought, it's his kids too, he can help this one time.  I picked up that the rant about home-schooling and such was him blowing off steam, but it still annoyed me.  I have noticed that in the past if his "plans" for a day, don't go as he pictures, he blows up.  Even when it's external forces that we have no control over causes it, he still takes it out on me.

Kids are stressful when someone wants a controlled environment. You can have plans, and a child can suddenly get a virus, and you have to change them. You can clean the house and 10 minutes later there are toys everywhere. I think it takes a certain temperament to go along with this. If someone doesn't have it, it can be stressful to them. This is one reason I didn't ask. The kids needed someone with a  go with the flow temperament and I am more like that. Your H may not have the temperament for the kind of situations that can come up with kids.

I feel you on that.  I wake up some mornings and it feels like everything is working against me.  I'm trying to get ready for work/kid to school and they'll be tearing around the house, slamming doors, hollering, playing, crying for me to pick them up... anyone that has kids understand.  While all this is going on, my H is sleeping in the next room.  He works night and doesn't go to bed till very late.  So my stress level goes through the roof, trying to make sure they are contained to the other side of the house, not tearing around, while getting ready to go to work.  I manage to keep my cool for the most part, but it's very hard at times.  Especially when I'm running on not a well night sleep.  I picture my H trying to do what I do and I don't think he could handle it.

The apology he gave was sincere and we talked about what happened.  I'm still bothered though.  I know that I lose my temper and I sometimes get a little loud with the kids.  I'm trying to find a way to manage my stress in the mornings.  I feel like I don't have enough time to myself and it's starting to show in my temperament.   

[patientandclear]

As a survivor of an emotionally and later physically abusive relationship, I feel moved to say that your account of placating your H by cleaning until he forgave you; your apology for asking him to help with the kid pickup; his explosion in front of your kids when you were so exhausted you’d fallen asleep in your kids’ room ... .these are unmistakeable aspects of a cycle of serious abuse.

This is how your H behaves. If you are staying with him, maybe it’s true, as Notwendy says, that you shouldn’t expect him to help you. You should make other plans for how to care for the kids. That is eventually the stance I had to take with my abusive exH (not the BPD man who I mostly post about here) because he used my need or requests for help with our daughter to manipulate and abuse, and I choose not to put myself in a position to give him any leverage. But the key words there are “EX H.” I am no longer participating in a marriage/partnership where I can’t ask my partner to help with the kids when I need help. (I did endure it for quite a while, so I can relate to rationalizing staying in these dynamics.)

Beyond the specific problem-solving about you not asking for help when you need it ... .this guy is seriously abusive to you and you then placate him to gain peace. The fact that he later forgives you or apologizes isn’t at odds with the diagnosis of abuse—it’s part of the cycle of abuse and the part that makes it hard to leave. You get some relief and it’s hard to force yourself to remember how awful it is and will be again, because you are trained to try to hang onto and preserve the peace, and the scraps of affection occasionally handed out.

You have kids. They are watching and learning, and there are long term ramifications of seeing this and seeing you placate him for peace and affection.

No less important, YOU don’t deserve to be dealt with in this way.

[Notwendy]

Abusive people are not always abusive. There is a cycle. After a blow up they can be very apologetic and contrite but it doesn't stop the cycle.

[Frankee]

I find the different viewpoints interesting.  I had to read your posts patient to get an idea of where you are coming from.  I did want to clarify a few points.  This is Conflicted or just tolerating section.  This is my place to express my feelings and thoughts.  Per previous posts I have stated that I have made the choice to stay and work on my current situation.   

I also don't need somebody to point out that he is abusive.  I know he is.  He's said mean cruel things, yelled in front of the kids, made me cry and feel worthless.  I came here in crisis.  I came here when I thought about doing some pretty bad things to myself to escape the pain.  I know there is a cycle, I know there is a pattern,  I know I'm guilty of being co-dependant,  I know that I do not deserve to be treated in such a cruel manner. 

I am not here to feel any worse about deciding to stay with my BPH.  I see that he has improved from how he use to be even though he does still have the rages and lose control.  I don't expect him to be all better overnight.  I am here to learn more about the disorder, try to get a better understanding, learn tools, and ways that I can learn to communicate better. This forum has helped me find my inner strength.  Compared to how I was when I came here, I feel a lot better.  I still post my vents to purge all the negativity.

I am sorry for your experiences and all the horrible things you went through patient.  I just want to clarify I'm here to vent, work on making things better,  and get helpful tips.

[patientandclear]

I find the different viewpoints interesting.  I had to read your posts patient to get an idea of where you are coming from.  I did want to clarify a few points.  This is Conflicted or just tolerating section.  This is my place to express my feelings and thoughts.  Per previous posts I have stated that I have made the choice to stay and work on my current situation.   

I also don't need somebody to point out that he is abusive.  I know he is.  He's said mean cruel things, yelled in front of the kids, made me cry and feel worthless.  I came here in crisis.  I came here when I thought about doing some pretty bad things to myself to escape the pain.  I know there is a cycle, I know there is a pattern,  I know I'm guilty of being co-dependant,  I know that I do not deserve to be treated in such a cruel manner. 

I am not here to feel any worse about deciding to stay with my BPH.  I see that he has improved from how he use to be even though he does still have the rages and lose control.  I don't expect him to be all better overnight.  I am here to learn more about the disorder, try to get a better understanding, learn tools, and ways that I can learn to communicate better. This forum has helped me find my inner strength.  Compared to how I was when I came here, I feel a lot better.  I still post my vents to purge all the negativity.

I am sorry for your experiences and all the horrible things you went through patient.  I just want to clarify I'm here to vent, work on making things better,  and get helpful tips.

Frankee--what I went through with my exH is quite similar to the stories you are recounting; that's why I brought it up.  I can relate.  I stayed for a long time.

This is the conflicted board, but on all the boards, one of the functions of the dialogue is for us all to speak truthfully with one another about what is actually going on.  Your thread prior to this was a "feeling good" thread--things were pleasant and it felt like progress was being made.  Then, you captioned this thread "need to keep my mouth shut," which is not actually a value taught here.  You recounted some pretty abusive behaviors, but as the posts progressed, you reported what sounded like an upswing: after you scrambled to clean and you apologized, he forgave you and apologized himself, and things got "better."

My post is to point out that that is not a victory or improvement.  That is part of the cycle of abuse.  If those of us who read and post here comment in such a way that we are encouraging you to feel that that is a well-managed dynamic, or incremental progress, we're not helping you.

This really isn't about staying or going; I understand you would like to stay.  This is about seeing clearly.  Someone wrote that "mental health is the choice of truth over comfort."  Sometimes it's the job of other posters here to push back on the comfort of a story line that things are being managed in a way that is okay for you or for your kids.

Staying or leaving is a whole other topic. It's conceivable that I might have been able to stay in my marriage had I had vastly stronger boundaries.  But appeasement did not make it possible to salvage the relationship; it pretty much guaranteed things were going to continue in that same very problematic vein.  I am urging you to find some route forward that does not include appeasing an abuser.  That road just does not pay off.

[Frankee]

Thanks for the reply.

[Frankee]

I know "keeping my mouth shut" isn't a value taught on here.  I also didn't "scramble" to clean.  Yes he said something about it, but even before he said anything I was going to do it.  As for cleaning until he forgave me doesn't apply.  I was doing my own cleaning and was finishing up when he said something.  That's why I was upset is because I was almost done when he said it so it was like thank you Captain Obvious.  I wanted to throw a pot at him because I felt like he thinks I stopped because of him.

Yes I am recounting abusive behaviors.  I put it all on here so I can read back and get an understanding of the patterns/cycles. As incidents happen where it's abuse/apologize/appease/better,  I'm using this forum to recount the times this happens. 

If this was being managed, I wouldn't be on here posting this emotional swing I'm going through. I know things are totally out of whack.  I just started posting back in July.   That's how new actually understanding and coming to terms with everything is.  I have gained clarity on what is wrong and what I want to do to make my life better.  I'm trying to find a different route that doesn't consist of what's happening right now.  So what I need is for real life tips,  advice, communication skills, and other things that are helpful.

[patientandclear]

The Improving a Relationship ... .board is a great resource for specific skills and approaches.

I just don’t want you to feel that “keep my mouth shut” is one of them. There is a time and a place for everything, wisdom to not make things worse is valuable ... .but the skills taught here are not actually about silencing yourself or berating yourself when you ask for what you need and it goes badly. When you asked for help with the kid pickup because you’d had a bad day—you didn’t do something wrong. He reacted poorly, and that’s where radical acceptance comes in; he may not be someone whom you can count on to help you when you need it. But there is nothing wrong with having asked.

If you can try to remember not to use appeasement as a strategy, it will save you a lot of time and heartache going down a dead-end road looking for relationship improvement. There are in fact specific skills on Improving about how to ask for what you need, how to reduce the harm of rages, how to set strong boundaries. Use those skills rather than appeasement and you’ll be working toward something better, no matter how he responds.