your non-BPD parent- -did they protect you?

[SeekingHealing]

Ive heard a lot of people say that their non-BPD parent took the BPD's side.  But with our parents, my brother and i always knew that our mom did not agree with our uBPD dad.  She was scared of him just like we were though.  And she was subjected to hours-long lectures (mostly my dad yelling and making points that were weird and illogical)

When our dad wasnt home, our mom let us do basically whatever we wanted.  It was like she tried to make up for our dad being so strict and boring.

I seriously dont know where i would be if we didnt have my mom--the one nice parent that i could actually talk to and have a relationship with.  But i know now that she really needed to stand up to him and refuse to be treated that way. 

[Contradancer]

My father has never in 53 years tried to protect me from my BPDm. She's a Queen Witch and he is her enabler. He throws me under the proverbial bus so he doesn't get attacked, and then calls it "keeping peace". I call it something else. When I try to talk with my dad rationally, he runs off to inform her majesty of my disloyalty. He has always been strict, but never beat me.

[SeekingHealing]

I meant to say that our mom would protect us by not telling our dad things we did wrong and even lied for us or defended us.  But that only avoided experiencing some of the rages.  We werent really protected from emotional abuse.  

Contradancer, im sorry your dad didnt help you at all. 

[Calm Waters]

both of my parents were terribly abused children themselves and had a terrible marriage. My mum a BPD waif was nearly murdered by her mother, and my fathers father was an alcoholic and his mother abandoned him. So whilst i was growing up I was left to look after my mother who was suicidal and depresed, so I was parenticised, ie I had to parent my mother when I was a child to keep her and thus myself safe. By this time my father was having an affair that drove my mother even more insane. My father never wanted me, my mother tricked him apparently, so he just abandoned me to my crazy mum. My dad I realise now was also BPD but narcisisstic. Amazingly they stayed together! however it left me and my brother with a legacy of depression. For me I felt that neither of my parents were capable of meeting my needs as a child or protecting me from eachother, my brother 9 years older was the one that offered some protection, but he was still a child himself. my mother tried to murder my father when i was a baby, my brother witnessed it i recently discovered, she also attempted suicide a number of times. The impact a;; of this had on me and brother was profound we were effectively terrified of both of them in different ways. Amazingly we had reasonably successful lives but he depression has been debilitating for both of us. My mother is now dyeing at 87 and my dad is still a narcissist at 91. My brother now 64 has cancer so soon they will all be gone and I will be an orphan, its daunting the prospect being without them, but part of me feels I may be relieved

[zubizou87]

Bit of a weird one with my non BPD dad

He was abused badly as a child and seems to attract very manipulative women... .he was undoubtedly afraid of my mother but he fought quite hard for my sense of self. He seems to really like my true personality and encourages it to come out of it's shell. If I'm unhappy or stuck in a bad situation my mum tries to prolong the misery and he tries to get me out. It also helps that they divorced when I was five so he stuck around living in the same town but at a relatively safe distance from her.

It's funny he's having a difficult time getting his head around the fact that she might be mentally ill but I think he;s to afraid of her to agree. He's always cheered me on but quietly and discreetly he believes in me and loves me. Thats why I have a good relationship with him and I want him to be an active part in my life when I have kids.

[GeekyGirl]

It's interesting seeing what you all went through with your non-BPD parents. It's very common from what I've heard/read for the non-BPD parent to be codependent. That's certainly been the case with my father. I still struggle sometimes with the anger that he didn't protect me (or my brother) and chooses to accept my mother's erratic behavior without question. He's so afraid to lose her that he's willing to sacrifice anything, including his own children and his needs, to keep her calm.

For those of you who have dads who weren't supportive or protective, what do you think is behind that? Does it affect you now as adults?

[Contradancer]

I call it self-serving wimpiness.  Yes, a selfishness if it's own.

Now, I do have trouble believing that I can rely on any man. I expect, no matter how I fight the feeling intellectually, that men will do only what they want for themselves and nothing for others unless they get something for themselves out of it.

[Calm Waters]

the only person we can truly rely on is ourselves. I believe that  relationships generally have the purpose of reflecting this truth despite the pain of making the unconscious - conscious. thats the journey to healing i believe.

[GeekyGirl]

the only person we can truly rely on is ourselves. I believe that  relationships generally have the purpose of reflecting this truth despite the pain of making the unconscious - conscious. thats the journey to healing i believe.

That's a great point, Calm Waters.  We do have to trust ourselves, and that's something that we all need to keep in mind as we continue on our healing journeys. As much as a I hate cliches, it's true: we can only truly love others once we love ourselves.

[livednlearned]

I realize now, looking back, that I spent most of my life fighting to be the least weak person in my home. My dad was the all-powerful patriarch, an alcoholic, who is either the all-good child of a uBPD waif/hermit, or a narcissist. Too hard for me to tell the difference. My brother is uBPD, and my mom is pathologically codependent. There was no way I could be more powerful than my dad or brother, so I had to wedge myself up a notch from my mom, who suffered the most by being at the bottom. The abuse flowed downstream, and everything that came my way, I passed along to my mom.  :'(  I blamed her for everything because she wasn't frightening, whereas the other two were, and she just absorbed everything, letting everyone walk all over her. It makes me feel so bad when I think about how I held her responsible for all the dysfunction in our family, when we all had a role. In forgiving myself, it made it possible for me to forgive her. I'm working on forgiveness with the others, a true work in progress.  

I was angry at my mom for a long time, and then, in leaving N/BPDx husband, we managed to really see each other clearly. I can get through to her for short periods of time and then, when it's too much, she'll disappear back into codependence. When I set a boundary with her, she responds like a child, just like she did when I was growing up. Lots of guilt and obligation, manipulation, without much awareness. She wore weakness like a favorite sweater.

For those of you who have dads who weren't supportive or protective, what do you think is behind that? Does it affect you now as adults?

Great question, Geeky Girl. I think when I stood up to N/BPDx and asserted myself, and made the choice to protect myself, that I broke our family script. It caused the strangest domino effect in my family, one I didn't see coming. My dad isn't talking to me, nor is my brother. My mom and I have a much closer relationship -- she was there for me through the divorce in a way that no one else has been. I struggle to change my script with her by being kind to her, even when I'm angry, if that makes sense. She admires me so much for what I've done, how I handled myself, how I protected S12. I don't think she will ever change, tho. She sees guilt as a very comfortable cushion, very familiar and safe. It makes me realize that she has been fear-driven her whole life, including when I was a kid, and that what drove her to stand by while I was beaten was plain ol' fear.

Now that I've faced one of my biggest fears, I have so much more compassion for her. It's not easy to stand up for yourself. It's dark and scary on the other side, and any number of more awful things might happen.

[Finding Courage]

My father did not protect or help me at all.  He always acted scared and withdrawn.  When I was younger, I saw him as almost an equal, not as a parent. Like it was the two of us and then my mom.  But now I see that he failed me as much as she did.  I needed him to have the courage to step up and he didn't.  And he takes her side even today, to "keep the peace."  I used to feel bad for him that he was in such a bad relationship, but now I see that he is an adult and made his own choices.  If he chose to stay, that is his responsibility.  When I came to realize my dad failed me too, I struggled with feeling even more alone.  But I know it is the truth.

[livednlearned]

And he takes her side even today, to "keep the peace." 

Keeping the peace in my family meant allowing the abuse. Why did the non-BPD parents not see it that way?

My mom uses that same phrase, "keeping the peace." Peace for who?

[GeekyGirl]

Keeping the peace in my family meant allowing the abuse. Why did the non-BPD parents not see it that way?

That's the part I struggle with. As a parent, I can't imagine abusing my son... .or allowing my DH to abuse him either. It's hard for me to really comprehend why my father doesn't stand up for his children, but I would imagine that in his mind, the thought of losing my mother is more painful than losing his children.

Some of it is probably self-preservation too. Our non parents don't enjoy being the subjects of our BPD parents rages any more than we do.

[SeekingHealing]

When I was a kid growing up, I prayed that God would not let me marry someone like my dad.  It was my worst nightmare.  I am so thankful my DH is not abusive.  We just have normal, married couple disagreements at times and we each have our own identities.  What a concept!

I am worried that my mom will never totally stand up for herself.  She is 57 and has been with my dad since 15yo. 

[Contradancer]

Livednlearned, the answer for whom the peace is kept is the co-dependent. Hence, my idea that it's based on selfishness.

[SeekingHealing]

It seems like therapy has helped a lot of non-BPDs here, but what if the BPd is so controlling that he woukdnt allow the non-BPD spouse to go (especially not without him there)?

[livednlearned]

Keeping the peace in my family meant allowing the abuse. Why did the non-BPD parents not see it that way?

That's the part I struggle with. As a parent, I can't imagine abusing my son... .or allowing my DH to abuse him either. It's hard for me to really comprehend why my father doesn't stand up for his children, but I would imagine that in his mind, the thought of losing my mother is more painful than losing his children.

Some of it is probably self-preservation too. Our non parents don't enjoy being the subjects of our BPD parents rages any more than we do.

I feel all over the place about this -- my feelings are in such disarray and i's making it hard for me to land, to know how I feel. Because when I protected S12 and myself by leaving N/BPDx, wow was it ever scary. The whole hero's journey, into the darkness and all that. Letting pieces of yourself splinter away until you aren't sure who you are is terrifying. I was the 40-year old LnL standing up to N/BPDx, and the 14-year-old LnL standing up to my dad and brother, all rolled into one package. And stepping off that ledge and letting go of the old LnLs, the ones who thought I must deserve this, I must be weak -- that really did feel like stepping off a ledge. When therapists talk about how hard it is to change, isn't it because we are so afraid of breaking? It isn't just fear of getting beaten physically, or fear of being verbally abused, it's fear of having your self destroyed. That's how it felt.

So then when I think about my mom not protecting me, I can fathom the self-preservation, the fear, the paralysis. It makes sense to me. I left because things were just one notch up on the thermometer more than I could endure, more than I had endured as a kid. She didn't reach that boiling point in her marriage. It's not dangerous enough, I guess.

It's weird, but I feel anger AND forgiveness at the same time, and I don't understand how. Maybe I forgive  my mom the person, but I don't forgive my mom the mom? Because even though I have this new forgiveness for her, when we spend long periods of time together, I feel some of the old anger. Mostly I feel compassion and tenderness toward her, and gratitude even. Maybe it's normal to cycle through these different feelings. I don't lash out in anger at her anymore, although I do wonder if I sometimes won't let her forget, and that feels unhealthy.

[foodie]

My dad, in some ways, sometimes, has tried to protect me.  My uBPD mother pits us against each other (doesn't work) and has made my dad's life a living hell on earth (well, mine too) by telling him until he half believes it that the reason we don't get along (my mother and I) is because he has taken my side in the past and helped turn me against my mother.  She never wanted us to be alone in my teenage or adult years because she thought we were "talking about her."  So as much as my dad loves me - he also bows down to her and the hellish victim mentality she puts him through day after day after day.  I have backed off of both my parents as a result.  It took my therapist being tough with me one day, saying that I have put my dad on a pedestal for far too long, and he really didn't "protect" me as much as he needed to, especially because he knew about the emotional abuse I was getting and all the intense instability. 

My aunt was probably the only person who knew about my mom's uBPD and she also really didn't protect me very well. My mom totally cut off communication with her side of the family who eventually called her on all this behavior. 

I still refuse to ever be alone with my mother (need my husband or father or outside party) because of the trauma of her attacking me with verbal abuse when I was alone and no one "rescued" me or protected me. 

[foodie]

Keeping the peace in my family meant allowing the abuse. Why did the non-BPD parents not see it that way?

That's the part I struggle with. As a parent, I can't imagine abusing my son... .or allowing my DH to abuse him either. It's hard for me to really comprehend why my father doesn't stand up for his children, but I would imagine that in his mind, the thought of losing my mother is more painful than losing his children.

Some of it is probably self-preservation too. Our non parents don't enjoy being the subjects of our BPD parents rages any more than we do.

I've thought both of these things.  In my case, my father is really, really tired, and he has learned to deal with my uBPD mother by just saying nothing, saying the "right" thing, and placating her.  he wants me to do the same.  He is simply in survival mode living with her and her rages.

[livednlearned]

It took my therapist being tough with me one day, saying that I have put my dad on a pedestal for far too long, and he really didn't "protect" me as much as he needed to, especially because he knew about the emotional abuse I was getting and all the intense instability. 

How do you feel now that your therapist pointed this out?